BS: The WMD that is never mentioned

Subject: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 12:43 PM

What could be so terrible that it does not even drip from the lips of Dick Cheney and his pals when they speak of weapons of mass destruction?

Scaler Weapons. as known as the Tesla howitzer, longitudinal wave production, energy shield, earthquake machines, fireball cannons etc.

How do they work?

Using enormous electrical energy sources they produce waves that can pass right through the core of the earth. Where 2 longitudinal waves cross and interfere with one another tremendous energy is released with explosive results in the atmoshere or deep within the earth. In the earth it can heat granite (peizo electric crystals) and the stone itself expands.

How long have they been around?
Technically since Tesla's time but practically for the last 3 decades.

In the case of the last 2 Christmas day earthquakes (1 year and 58 minutes apart) that have struck in Muslim countries (or right offshore), the signiture is similar. A gigantic bulge first appears until forces resolve toward and equilibrium resulting in an earthquake. Make no mistake, earthquakes are ubiquitous and the Sumatra area is reknown for the most devestationg eruptions and quakes in recorded history (Krakatoa etc.) Most often earthquakes are triggered by gravitational tidal effects in reaction with the stresses of Earth's shifting mantle. However when certain earthquakes bear a similar and unique signiture one's curiosity whould be peaked.

This Christmas the earth's rotation slowed by 3 milliseconds due to an enormous bulge in one area followed by an earthquake. This effect is like you spinning in a rotating office chair and then you stick out your legs and you immediately slow down. If you ice skate you know this phenomena well when you spin.
The entire planet then wobbled on its axis and the vulnrable fault zone let go creating an earthquake and ocean wave of enormous proportion.

There is no doubt a scaler weapon can be used to trigger these effects but I have absolutely no evidence that it was.

Politically the use of a scaler weapon is viewed as an act of God and shields the attacker from respondsibility. Ethicly it is a terrorist cowardly act of meglomaniac proportions. It is unthinkable.

But it is something to think about.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c2coff=1&q=scalar+weapon+earthquakes&spell=1

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: belter
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 01:55 PM

is this a joke? not to say its funny. Its just unbelievable.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 01:59 PM

Same old story, innit? Idiots putting all their resources and effort into building weapons, and none into maintaining peace.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 03:05 PM

All WMDs are unbelievable to sane people.

The deceptions that are carried out to make it seem we don't have scaler weapons are fascinating. ABM projects that are designed to fail while helping to account for the black budget for "other things" could be just one such example.

I have no proof to offer anyone but at the same time this is not a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 05:06 PM

It may not be a joke, but it is untrue, i.e. not real physics, i.e. has nothing to do with Tesla (a real person and a genius who was instrumental in the invention of modern electrical generation).

You might as well claim that Roy Rogers and John Wayne were involved with the Infant of Prague in organizing assasinations via time travel, and if you look at the documents which have been withheld from Arafat's hospitalization in France, you'll find out he was done away with by the Australian secret service using these methods due to unpaid gambling debts.

The above paragraph has the same relationship to truth as the first post in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 05:15 PM

Well said, Robomatic! My thoughts exactly!

DAve Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 06:44 PM

In any case the word is "scalar", not scaler. A scaler weapon is used to scrape the hide off a fish! :)   "Scalar" is a mathematical term which refers to a quantity that has a size or magnitude but no direction. For example, any real number is a scalar.

The ability of energy waves to heat granite or anything else is indubitable. Granite, however, is not a piezo-electric crystal, and these three things have no correlation (granite, piezo-electricity and energy waves) except in the jumbled vocabulary of this fevered writer, whoever it is.

A

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 06:47 PM

I have used energy waves to heat granite.

Threw a stone in a fire.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:00 AM

I seem to recall the fabled weapon of WWII--the LePage gun. Glued enemy aircraft togther, so they fell in a sticky clump.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 08:10 AM

And then of course, WWII night fighter pilots ate lots of carrots to improve their night vision. Nothing to do with the special top secret radar sets, now was it? My Dad laughed when he told me - he was a W.O. in the RAF, but then he died in 1969, and some of those secrets were still more or less 'secret' up till then, and many people took their secrecy oaths seriously in those days...

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: harpgirl
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 08:56 AM

A dialectical discussion on this phenomenon would make more sense but like the alternative arguments about HIV/AIDS, the conventional hardliners will shout it down....

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:07 AM

I don't doubt for a minute that these things have been investigated as potential weapons. As for their actuality, however -- well, that's another story.

Consider this: no military uses a weapon without first testing it. Not the A-Bomb (the Trinity Shot), not the V-2, not even a longbow. Where and when were these tested?

Also, a scalar weapon could as easily cause the destruction in the homeland as to the enemy. An example of the use of such a "weapon" is the use of bacterialogical warfare by Japan against Chinese civilians in WW2 (1942, I believe it was): Chinese died, but so did Japanese soldiers when the wind direction changed and blew the germs back on the Japanese troops.

A good weapon -- a true weapon -- is directional.

This is less than half-truths. Perhaps it's one-sixteenth truth, but no more than that.

(I want to see that "scaler weapon", Amos.)

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:30 AM

Harpgirl, please explain what you mean by "a dialectical discussion of this phenomenon".

We have indeed had a discussion here, pointing out that the posited phenomenon is physical hogwash. What more is needed? If it is indeed hogwash, it's not necessary (and indeed, makes no sense) to discuss the politics, ethics, morals, conspiracy value of it.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:19 AM

Nicola Tesla was probably the greatest genius that this world has ever produced. His work with Thomas Edison changed the way we use electricity. He took Edison's DC current which was limited and costly and found a way to make the current alternate thereby creating AC current and making electricity much more useful.

There are many curiosities about Tesla's life and his death. After he died, his residence was taken over by the US Military and all of his writings and notes are still classified TOP SECRET by the government. It is even rumored that one of his experiments in transferring electricity without using wires was the cause of the Tunguska explosion in Siberia in 1908.

I don't know anything about Scalar Weapons. But if anyone was capable of inventing such a device it would most certainly be Nicola Tesla. And it wouldn't surprise me if it took nearly a century for other scientists to finally begin to understand his theories on the subject. Just my two cents.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: harpgirl
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 11:43 AM

Dave...a discussion which examines an idea. We only seem to be able to do this with songs at
mudcat. When I come upon an idea that is unconventional I get interested and excited. Why not argue both sides of the question instead of the no side?

I want to
know more. I don't have to swallow the conventional crap anymore. The question:

Is something like scalar weaponry causing disasters (earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions,
giant buildings to fall down)?... to me is a very interesting question. To dismiss these questions so
cavalierly is frightening to me.

Donuel is unconventional and seems to be a very interesting fellow. Yet he has been ridiculed and
dismissed here at mudcat. Why is that?

Some people around here just seem to have all the answers and are insistent that other ideas are
always bunk...It seems closed minded to me. I understand the need to make jokes...I like funnies
as much as the next person.

But to insist that something is not possible reminds me of a story my dad likes to tell about being
in aerospace engineering at the University of Michigan in the 40's. His professor told him that we
would never reach the moon. It was impossible. He has always inspired me to be open to new
information with that story.

Love, harpgirl


Main Entry: di·a·lec·tic
Pronunciation: "dI-&-'lek-tik
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English dialetik, from Middle French dialetique, from Latin dialectica, from
Greek dialektikE, from feminine of dialektikos of conversation, from dialektos
1 : LOGIC 1a(1)
2 a : discussion and reasoning by dialogue as a method of intellectual investigation; specifically :
the Socratic techniques of exposing false beliefs and eliciting truth b : the Platonic investigation of
the eternal ideas
3 : the logic of fallacy
4 a : the Hegelian process of change in which a concept or its realization passes over into and is
preserved and fulfilled by its opposite; also : the critical investigation of this process b (1) usually
plural but singular or plural in construction : development through the stages of thesis, antithesis,
and synthesis in accordance with the laws of dialectical materialism (2) : the investigation of this
process (3) : the theoretical application of this process especially in the social sciences
5 usually plural but singular or plural in construction a : any systematic reasoning, exposition, or
argument that juxtaposes opposed or contradictory ideas and usually seeks to resolve their
conflict b : an intellectual exchange of ideas
6 : the dialectical tension or opposition between two interacting forces

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:24 PM

I refer you to the book Tesla: Man Out of Time by margaret Cheney (Laurel, 1981).

Tesla's missing papers are discussed in Chapter 29 (pp. 268 ff.).

Here's an excerpt about the "secret weapon" Tesla placed in the safe at the Hotel Governor Clinton in New York City; Dr. Trump was asked by the FBI and the Federal Government to examine Tesla's papers and effects after his death in 1943:

"Tesla had warned the management that this 'device' was a secret weapon," said Dr. Trump, "and it would detonate if opened by an unauthorized person. Upon opening the safe and indicating the package containing the secret weapon, the hotel manager and employees promptly left the scene." The federal agents who had come along also pulled back, the better to give hime the sole distinction of opening the parcel.

It was wrapped in brown paper and tied with a string....

He lifted the parcel onto a table and mustering his courage snipped the string with his pocket knife. He removed the wrapping. Instide was a handsome jpolished wooden chest bound with brass. It required a final effort of courage to raise the hinged lid.

Inside stood a multidecade resistance box of the type used for Wheatstone bridge resistance measurements -- a common standard item to be found in every electrical laboratory before the turn of the century!

Why had Tesla seen fit to terrify the staff and management of the hotel with the harmless object for so many years? Perhaps he had become so accustomed to haaving his hotel bills paid behind his back...that he was insulted when the Governor Clinton brashly demanded its $400.

However, at the end of the book (p. 309), the author states that she has learned that a "substantial" collection of Tesla material is classified in a US government library, a library to which access is restricted, at a "well-known defense research agency." Three libraries in the US, she says, have Tesla material: one is open to the the public, one is semi-restricted, and the last is restricted.

Much -- perhaps all? -- of the Tesla material was taken to the Tesla Museum in Belgrade. The address given for the Museum is 51 Proleterskih Brigada, formerly Crown Street.

You may wish to consult J. T. Ratzlass and L. I. Anderson's Dr. Nikola Tesla Bibliography (Ragusan Press, 1979) -- it contains around 3,000 sources of writing by and about Tesla.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:48 PM

Tesla lived to a ripe age, but not a happy one. He was afflicted with a mental condition, I doubt it was ever diagnosed, but not unlike Howard Hughes. That, plus the fact that he was probably not given due recognition for his many genuine accomplishments, led to successive waves of people turning him into an almost mystical figure.

He didn't really work much with Edison. Edison was one of the great untutored geniuses, and he had a distrust of well educated people, which Tesla certainly was. Tesla quit Edison and went to work for George Westinghouse, a self-made millionaire who I believe invented a practical air-brake for railroads. Anyhow, the AC system developed by Tesla and Westinghouse, which involved the 3-phase inductive motor and a project which harnessed the Niagara River for a great hydroelectric power station, put Westinghouse on top of the electrical technology heap in the US. Edison's company had to convert from DC to AC whereupon he took his name off the company and it became simply: "General Electric".

The rumors of Tesla being involved with death rays and transmission of power over long distances are not backed up by any real information. One CAN broadcast power without wires, but it is horribly inefficient.

Thanks for explaining 'dialectic' Harpgirl. I still don't understand what you mean, but-a I thought-a you meant-a we were all-a gonna haave to-a talka like-a diss-a. I stand corrected.

Unfortunately, the language affords us the ability to talk about many impossible things. The mere fact that it can be put into words, or even imagined, or made into a movie, don't make the numbers work, however plausible it may look. And many folk like to start threads off with a bit of trollery drollery, as is the case here. I think of it as shooting the bull when I've got nothin' better to do.

ciao frnow

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:51 PM

Junk science is not an "alternative explanation" or an "unconventional idea", its just pure crap- pernicious crap as well.

For an example of something TRULY frightening, consider the gullibility of people who accept this sort of bogus nonsense, and that these same people have the vote, produce offspring, and may hold positions of influence and power. Now, that's scary.

Sagan's Demon-Haunted World and Shermer's Borderlands of Science are worth a read.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: MuddleC
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 11:35 PM

and one of them's called Tony Blair!
scares me whenever him and his mate George talk about 'God' being on their side....
if proof were needed that there isn't any deity oozing peace and love just look at the Indian Ocean, especially where it meets the land............

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: DougR
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:42 AM

Sounds like a marvelous opportunity to add to the conspiracy theories on the Mudcat! Neo-conservatives devise new WMD that can be used to win in 2008!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:09 AM

Daggone, DougR, you got it! I never thought of using Tesla, earthquakes, tsunamis, and things like that in conspiracy theory! Ranks right up there with George and Barbara Bush sacrificing children to Moloch in the Bohemian Grove!

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: mack/misophist
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:38 AM

Poor Tesla died mad. In the years before his death, he squandered a fortune on energy transmission schemes that never worked. The scope of his genius makes it inevitable that rumors will persist.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:56 AM

"There is no doubt a scaler weapon can be used to trigger these effects..."

NO doubt? c'mon!.....

I remember when there was "no doubt" in some quarters that the H-bomb would trigger a chain reaction that would destroy the Earth.

In any case, it is not a good idea to suggest a connection, even with disclaimers, of theoretical weapons to the recent earthquakes. We KNOW how earthquakes work in that area, and without GOOD evidence of any contrary theory, it's best to keep the discussions separate.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:03 PM

Sounds like an interesting subject. I see no reason for reacting in an extreme way either for or against what Donuel has said. If people do react in an extreme way to it, then they are revealing more about themselvles (and their customary fears and prejudices) than they are about the subject of discussion.

Observe carefully.

How would anyone here know enough about it to have an absolute, ironclad, rock-solid opinion for or against what Donuel is saying?

They wouldn't. They're just dumping their standard emotional reactions, that's all.

The only opinion I have about it is...it's interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: BaldEagle2
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 02:48 PM

Wasn't it the warriors from the planet Criket who commissioned a weapon that would destroy the entire universe, and then demanded their money back when they found that it did not work?

Or was it one of our more depraved mud-catters?

Some one like that, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: DougR
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 07:28 PM

Rapaire: it was only a matter of time until some bright poster suggested the conspiracy theory. Thought I'd just beat them to the punch.

Happy New Year Everybody!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:20 PM

Doug, I'm working on one. It'll be doozy when I'm done with it. Gonna have all sorts of stuff in it.

Happy New Year back atcha and at everyone else!

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 12:05 PM

You might also want to do some research on the "Sunburn" missile that was developed in Russia and is now owned by the Iranian government. It is far more accurate than the scud and can carry a nuclear payload.

One thing this present climate of pre-emption has spawned and that is new warfare technology that will probably render the old ones used obsolete.
Every country that can is doing R and D on this.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 12:26 PM

Of course. But you don't need missiles or aircraft to deliver a nuke.

A gun-type weapon assembled in place in a city, criticality achieved by a suicide, could yield about .8 KT (the equivalent of 1,600,000 pounds -- or 72,574.7792 kilograms -- of TNT) and a whole lot of radiation and radioactive "dirt". Or place a nuke artillery shell in the hold of a tanker, under the oil.

And I can think of even worse things which I won't go into here.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 04:24 PM

Usually, whenever something bad happens in the world, I only have to wait for a very short time until some Mudcatter with more than the usual endowment of phantasy explains to me how the US government can be blamed for that (in a part of those cases correctly, in my eyes).

This time I thought, well, nobody's going to blame Bush for that. But I was wrong.

One could laugh about that sillyness if it had not the bad consequence that in those cases in which the US (or another) government really is to blame people may remember the wrong blamings and laugh off the correct one's as well.

Donuel, use your creative phantasy at works of art, 'cause that's a field in which you are really good.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:03 PM

I'd like to make one more point about nukes and "missiles capable of carrying a nuclear warhead".

The critical mass for a gun-type weapon is approximately 22 pounds of Uranium 235 or Plutonium 239. Even I, a librarian, could rig up a way to slam two pieces of fissionable material into a critical mass within a tenth of a second. Let's say that this, plus the container for the all the stuff, adds 50 pounds. The total weight is now about 75 pounds.

I can make a rocket myself that would lift that payload. With materials readily available to me, right here at home.

The problems come in making the missile accurate and to give it a range beyond a few kilometers, not in making a missile that would lift the warhead.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Grab
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 07:50 PM

Using enormous electrical energy sources they produce waves that can pass right through the core of the earth. Where 2 longitudinal waves cross and interfere with one another tremendous energy is released with explosive results in the atmoshere or deep within the earth. In the earth it can heat granite (peizo electric crystals) and the stone itself expands.

That's bullshit. Maybe you aren't aware, but the centre of the earth is already very hot. Microwaves will certainly heat stuff up, but the effect is seriously limited - it'd be like trying to boil a pan of water with a Zippo lighter. And as far as the "enormous electrical energy sources" go, which two cities' electricity supplies did they come from?

How long have they been around? Technically since Tesla's time but practically for the last 3 decades.

So what happened 30 years ago to make this possible?

There is no doubt a scaler weapon can be used to trigger these effects but I have absolutely no evidence that it was.

The implication is clear though - you're certain that it was.

As far as "no doubt" goes, there's actually a massive amount of doubt. *If* these effects existed (Tesla's autobiography claims this, but then he suffered from serious mental illness, many of his claims and experiments could never be reproduced, and an autobiography of someone in this situation is bound to be, shall we say, "unreliable") and *if* there was enough spare electricity supply, and *if* someone would order it done, then I guess it could happen. But all three conditions seem so unlikely as to render this highly implausible.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 06:42 PM

Anyone have see a connection between underground nuclear testing in Pakistan and India and the recent earthquake activity in Indonesia?

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: DougR
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 12:15 AM

Ah ha, Frank! Another excellent opportunity to introduce another conspiracy theory! Good for you! Keep a sharp watch, Frank, because I'm sure as elections in Iraq draw closer, there will be ample opportunity to "find" more conspiracies to promote.

Sigh.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:00 AM

I've got a good start, Doug. So far, I've discovered that:

1. The Albigensians are behind it all. This is all laid out in the

2. Archivio della Nunziatura Apostolica in Indonesia**
[abbr./abgek.: Arch. Nunz. Indonesia], found in the Secret Archives of the Vatican. (You can request a photocopy -- Vatican City is at www.vatican.va). Note that this deals with Indonesia!

3. The Swiss Guards are acting as the Albigensians' "special forces" in this matter, with the avowed intent of placing Indonesia and the entire Indian Ocean area under the control of Switzerland, because

4. the Swiss government and people are tired of being made the butt of jokes because they have no seaport.

This is as far as I've gotten. I'll keep you posted, if I can manage to dodge the MIBs with Swiss accents who have been seen around here lately.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:58 AM

so THAT'S why guys with Swiss accents were seen running thru the jungles of Costa Rica, scaring butterflies into chaotic flight!

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 12:40 PM

And here I thought it was laughter. Or love.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: DougR
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 01:04 PM

LOL, Rapaire, I love it!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:30 PM

Wahoo! Finally, a thread where I can contribute, and not be totally talking out my butt. I am a practicing geophysicist (in industry and academics) with plenty of alphabet soup, plus experience, plus years of reading the relevant journals.

Scalar weapons are hooey. It all traces back to essentially one person – not Tesla, nor Maxwell, although some of their ideas are often cited as the basis for scalar weaponry – but to geophysicist Tom Bearden. Bearden's claims are based on flawed measurements, and misunderstandings of the physics involved, and imply violations of well-established principles (such as the 2nd law of thermodynamics), as well as the assumption that the grand unified theory (the Holy Grail of modern physics) has, in fact, already been found. It is a goobledygook of actual quantum electrodynamics terminology used in odd and meaningless combinations. Quite literally, it is part of the "free energy" and "perpetual motion machine" world of pseudoscience.

Now, no scientist can ever prove that something doesn't exist, but it is easy to state categorically that the evidence required to support the scalar weapons claims has not been presented in any public forum, and such evidence would necessarily conflict with many fundamental principles for which there is ample, ever-growing, interdisciplinary, and mutually supportive evidence.

Don't trust me. Read up on Mr. Bearden here (and go to the cited references if still doubtful):

www.phact.org/e/z/bearden/bearden.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 05:24 PM

Yes, yes, TIA, but you don't address the issue I'd like to see addressed.

I want to see one of them scalEr weapons, 'cause I got a lot of fish to fry.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 08:34 PM

TIA, you said:

I can contribute, and not be totally talking out my butt.

Awwww, c'mon! You'll spoil the fun! Talking out of one's butt is the great sport around here!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:15 AM

And what about Shatner's girdle? That is almost never mentioned either. This is because of the great danger posed to the public and the world in general, should he be forced to remove it during filming or any other strenuous activity.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 08:30 AM

Picture of unfortunate victims here. Caution - it isn't pretty. NOT for the squeamish. Note the actual device in the lower right.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 09:31 AM

Can this be used in music as well?

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 10:02 AM

Happy new year all.
For those that think these unique energy weapons do not exist or if they do exist they are only a form of microwave energy are entitled to be uniformed and remain that way.

That being said I sincerely believe the earthquake is unrelated to scaler weapon use. There are plenty of man made earthquakes, if you live in Denver Colorado or Los Vegas Nevada you know what I mean.
Denver had quakes of 1-3 R routinely due to pumping sludge down a half mile deep man mad well for disposal and caused bedrock slippage.
Los Vegas can feel underground Nuke testing.

As for Wolfgang's request that I remain one dimensional and shut the **** up, I respectfully decline.

In this regieme climate change where government funded scientific thought and proposals are now to be screened and censored by party loyalists, I do go against the grain.

There are in fact energy systems that far exceed the destructive power of scaler weapons.

"SUPERNOVA FROM EXPERIMENTATION AT FERMILAB

The current energy levels at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory have been increased from 1.2 TeV to 33 TeV (trillion electron volts) for the the Tevatron 2 trials scheduled for this March or April 2001.
Please check the Luminoisty Webpage at Fermilab to verify this enormous increase.

Clearly, this is enough energy to access those energies resident in de Sitter space thus produing a supernova. This is termed a Type Ia supernova and is used as a standard candle for distance estimates in observational astonomy.

Even though research is often risky this is an unacceptable risk since supernova production will destroy everthing out to a perimeter of some 50 light years.

Please contact me at for further information. Go to: ( Paul Dixon Supernova) on Google.com or (Paul W. Dixon supernova) as well to check various webpages on this topic.

Alas, it would seem that a fundamental conceptual error may lie at the basis of the autodestruction of civilization. This error was illustrated by none other than Carl Sagan who pointed out that our civilization had achieved sufficient scientific advancement in several areas such as biology and physics such that we could destroy our civilization with for example, mutant anthax spores or with nuclear exchanges with Russia. As a possible alternate method of self-destruction, we also have the development of high-energy physics experimentation with the energies now in use - again increasing at the Fermi National Acclerator Laboratory. A laboratory experiment must seem very scientific and safe yet the history of high-energy physics is replete with examples of the loss of the experiment, human life and the the surrounding territory. What is here indicated is only an increase in scale up to some 50 light years destruction from Type Ia Supernovae generation due to the great energies of de Sitter space. Tragically, we are now at the scientific level where we can access the fundamental forces of nature and hence doom both ourselves and our children.

All the children will thank you for yor prompt notification of your members of Congress and may the good God have mercy on our souls.

EVERY BEST WISH FOR THE NEW YEAR!!!


Yours sincerely,

Paul W. Dixon, Ph.D.
Supernova from Experimentation "

......................

I doubt that anyone here including myself has the expertise to disprove the existence of de sitter space, a parallel brane in the universe or even string theory but you are all entitled to pretend you know. Like religion it does give some a sense of comfort in assuming everything is reduced down to their own boundaries of the known or that we already know more than we need to know.

Only 50 years ago the accepted steady state of the universe has been supplanted by the much despised catastrophe model. It took eye witnesses of the Schumaker Levy impacts to accept current impact phenomena in our solar system despite our moon staring us in the face with all its craters. Back in 1975 I saw the moon take an enormous impact. A large hemespheric explosion followed by a secondary small explosion was over in as little as 5 seconds.

Naturally not everyone sees the same thing. Collectively we as a population/mob are more accurate in deductions and good guesses than the individual. What is essential to this accuracy is the nature of the information given and of course being informed.

A toast to the freedom of information..*

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 10:12 AM

I shall consider myself uniformed.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 10:16 AM

a far more real danger

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 10:16 AM

BTW, Donuel is quite correct that earthquakes can, and have, been triggered by humans. Legit, peer-reviewed work on lubricating fault zones to release stresses through multiple small quakes as opposed to fewer large and destructive ones has been going on for years. The big key is that the energy to create the quakes is natural and pre-exisitng - humans are only tampering with its release rate. Generating, and transmitting to a remote location, enough energy to CAUSE an earthquake is quite beyond us humans - even the ones in secret government labs.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:16 PM

Yeah, that's like saying a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Once if you're uniformed

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:33 PM

Donuel informed us thusly:

For those that think these unique energy weapons do not exist or if they do exist they are only a form of microwave energy are entitled to be uniformed and remain that way.

No thanks. I was uniformed for two years in the early 50s, and that's enough, thank you.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:40 PM

No, I'm not qualified to comment, but I know folks who are. I've sent this to a friend at Argonne and a friend at Goddard. One is a PhD in astrophysics and the other in plasma physics.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:52 PM

Thanks beardedbruce. The scariest part is that it can now be dehydrated for easy concealment and transport, and can be reconstituted when necessary!

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:56 PM

Any discussion of weapons of ass destruction should start here.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: DougR
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 01:00 PM

Wow! Love that fish scaler! Just think, it's made of stell and plastic!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 02:37 PM

The last picture was more of a battlefield or tactical scaler. Now THIS is a mass scaler weapon.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 05:38 PM

I will attribute the "uniformed" crack to the fact I am still recovering from the flu so I am a bit crankier than usual.

Amid the fish and fart sarcasm here, lets imagine one more rarely discussed weapon of mass destruction:

Suppose we could build gigantic multi gigawatt ionsphere heaters and aim them at the sky from a spot close to the artic circle. Imagine further that the energy pumped into the atmosphere can cause jet streams to alter their course according to man made manipulations of the energy radiated by this gigantic machine.

Now lets name this gargantuan machine/weapon with a cute acronym like the DOD does with most weapon systems. We already have 'Peace keepers and Daisy cutters so lets name this one with angelic initials such as HAARP.

For a lark I can imagine the Soviets having one years before the US and picture a meeting in the crisis room deep underground at US cental command when a General stands up and says "Gentlemen, we must not have a HAARP gap!".

Imagination is a wonderful thing.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 06:30 PM

Oh, come on now! Arecibo, Puerto Rico is NOT near the Arctic Circle!

The HAARP project aims to direct a 3.6 MW pulse in the 2.8-10 MHz bandwidth into the ionosphere and then to examine the effects of the pulse and the recovery period using associated radar equipment. According to the HAARP team, this will advance the study of basic natural processes that occur in the ionosphere under the natural but much stronger influence of solar interaction, as well as how the natural ionosphere affects radio signals. This will enable scientists to develop techniques to mitigate these effects in order to improve the reliability and/or performance of communication and navigation systems, which would have a wide range of applications in both the civilian and military sectors.

The project is funded by the Office of Naval Research and jointly managed by the ONR and Air Force Research Laboratory, with the principal involvement of the University of Alaska. Fourteen other universities and educational institutions have been involved in the development of the project and its instruments, namely the University of Alaska, Penn State University (ARL), Boston College, UCLA, Clemson University, Dartmouth College, Cornell University, Johns Hopkins University, University of Maryland, University of Massachusetts, MIT, Polytechnic University, Stanford University, and the University of Tulsa. The project's specifications were developed by the universities, which are continuing to play a major role in the design of future research efforts. There is both military and commercial interest in its outcome, as many communications and navigation systems depend on signals being reflected from the ionosphere or passing through the ionosphere to satellites.

The HAARP project offers annual open days to permit the general public to visit the facility, and makes a public virtue of openness; according to the team, "there are no classified documents pertaining to HAARP."

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 06:35 PM

Lets imagine the HAARP installation is in Alaska.

I don't know what gave you the impression that its in PR

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 11:09 PM

well....lots to read

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 11:13 PM

WAY too much to read

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 09:39 AM

The fact that there at three installations in Alaska and one in Puerto Rico, for one thing. There are also installations (under other auspices, but using some or all of the same technology) in northern Norway near Tromsø; Japan; the University of Leicester; Sodankylä, Finland; Jicamarca, Peru; near Moscow, Nizhny Novgorod (SURA) and Apatity, Russia; near Kharkov, Ukraine; and in Dushanbe, Tadzhikistan.

It took VERY little searching to turn this information up -- and it's not classified. In fact, the US HAARP installation near Tok, Alaska has had open houses for the public.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 11:10 AM

ah-HA! So they're hiding it all in plain sight! What a sneaky, devious way to disguise Doomsday weapons. They give tours, but don't explain that the little button labeled "V C" means "Vaporize China".

Lordy....what ARE we supposed to do if there ARE super-weapons disguised as radar test stations out there? Or Area 51s in Nevada?

If it is all benign, there's no problem....if it is a super-secret plot, I doubt that all the speculation in the world is gonna change anything. Write my congressman? Go to Alaska and picket a field of antenna while bemused Caribou walk by me? Start another website 'exposing' it all?...I think I'll wait till the glow in the sky starts buzzing over MY house.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 11:51 AM

The most pitiful thing about this thread is that there has been some real doomsday stuff done that this folderol diverts attention from.

Don you cover yourself by liberal uses of the words 'suppose' and imagine. To which I can easily respond: 'Supposin' it ain't' and 'imagine that!'

Use spell-check a little more, and you will continue to be uninformative rather than uniformative, and your 'artic'les may improve, but I doubt it.

You have a proven competency as an illustrator. Why'n't draw a picture of a doomsday device and maybe someone will buy it.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 02:43 PM

Whoops!
Thought this was another thread about toilet paper.

Sorry!

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 02:50 PM

"The most pitiful thing about this thread is that there has been some real doomsday stuff done that this folderol diverts attention from."


do tell

We already know about nukes and bioweapons.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 05:06 PM

The biggest doomsday threat of mass destruction is posed by global environmental degradation. It's happening right now, and accelerating. And our government claims it is not happening, and if it is, it has nothing to do with us, and stopping it would be "bad for business". Bad for busines?!?!? Hard to sell riding mowers, DVD players and diet cola to an extinct race.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 07:05 PM

"We already know about nukes and bioweapons. "

I don't think we do

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 10:30 PM

The US fire bombing of Japanese cities killed more civilians than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs combined, including those that have died since. The Japanese use of biological warfare against China and Manchuria killed a large, but indefinite, number of people -- Chinese, Manchurian, and Japanese. By various means the Third Reich was directly responsible for the deaths of at least 16,000,000 people. Stalin was responsible for the deaths of about 8,000,000, including the German soldiers who surrendered and were then marched off to Siberia. Pol Pot killed two or three million in Cambodia. The Hutu/Tutsi genocide in Rwanda killed -- how many? How many in Serbia? How many in Sudan? How many in Armenia? How many?

We don't need superweapons to kill off our neighbors. We do a pretty damned good job with what we have.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 11:44 PM

amen, Rapaire! (and he ain't makin' those numbers up!)

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 12:06 PM

I third that agreement. I was referring, however, to a program on bioweapons research done on PBS by Nova (I think) which mentioned specific work done by the Soviets while they were denying they were doing any research (and in fact had signed a treaty to the effect to the US, which did comply). I'm not going to contaminate this thread any further with real WMD as the imaginary one has taken the title.

In another thread the subject came up as to how do you convince people (in that case the anti-vaccine crowd) that one set of information is bogus and another set is true. In this thread we have an assertion which doesn't jive with the facts, and no data in support of it at all. So I just put it down as entertainment.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:49 PM

From a physical engineer at Argonne Labs, Chicago (PhD):

With all of the web-video images that Fermi has, at least we can see the end of the world on the web.

At the easiest level, the report is wrong factually. FermiLab has
NOT been increasing the beam energy in the Tevatron accelerator, it
has been increasing the beam current only. So the Tevatron can still
only achieve 4 Teravolts energy (4,000 billion volts). I do not know
where Dugan found the claim of 33 Tev. It also only runs at about 1 Tev.So Dugan's assertion is a "Nevermind"

As to his claim that at 33 Tev the accelerator will create a supernova, I was trying to find out where he discovered that. But I was not able to reach his web site.

This is actually the third claim that the world will end because of
high energy physics. During the atomic bomb development, one theoretical calculation found that the bomb detonation would ignite the earths atmosphere. Fortunately, it was wrong (although you have to admire the arrogance of science where it was, well we should at least try it).

When the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) accelerator at Brookhaven as starting in 1998, someone calculated that colliding gold atoms at 25 Gev would ignite a plasma that would engulf the earth. Again, fortunately we did not see that either.

I am not an expert, but the issue is not simply the energy of a single
particle, such as a proton or a gold atom, because that is multiplied by 10exp(-19) due to the coulomb charge of the particle. You need to have a large number of particles to have a cosmic effect.

From the head of NASA's Magnetospheric Research Dept. at Goddard, a PhD in Plasma Physics:

Hope you enjoy the snow, it is much more real than what is talked about for Fermilab.

That should put the quietus to that!

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 03:20 PM

Rapaire:

It should but it won't. Some folks just need to believe weird stuff, there's even a book about it by Michael Shermer. Other folks need to feed that other need. Sorta like did God make pacifists to help out sadists or vice-a versa.

In any case, I believe some folks will go on believing that at some level there was truth in this thread, and I believe that the originator of this thread will go on and make a few more. Each response is a little 'victory'.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 07:44 PM

"Some folks just need to believe weird stuff"--in my experience, on close examination, everything turns out to be weird--

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 07:48 PM

Every time I come across one of these wonderful scientific dissertations based on dodgy interpretation of even dodgier evidence, I am reminded of the fact that, aerodynamically the bumble bee cannot generate sufficient lift to take flight. However, I won't tell him, if you don't.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 10:31 AM

How some others try to make sense of that catastrophe in their way of thinking:

Mahmoud Bakri in the Egyptian weekly al-Usbu published the theory that a secret nuclear test done in collaboration of the USA, Israel and India with the aim to find a way to eliminate all humans has triggered the tsunami. (USA, Israel, India? Well, that's the axis of evil in the mind a lunatic islamist)

Jussuf al-Qaradawi (preaching in Qatar TV) said that this was God's collective punishment for the people vacationing in that region who imbibe themselves with alcohol and fornicate. (I bet that some Christian preacher has said something very similar, but have not found a quotation yet)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:21 PM

Actually a school chum of mine (Michael Dickinson, now at Berkely (?)) worked out the bumblebee aerodynamics problem. Had an article in Nature (?) about it last year. I'll try to find the reference.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 06:34 PM

The old bumblebee can't fly myth dispelled.

And too think Mike and I used to sit on the beach after washing dishes and pass an old Ovation back and forth (he was a better picker than me).

Subject: TIA
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 01:44 PM

In keeping with drifting from the subject or attacking the messenger;

Killer TIA's http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushtia.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 02:55 PM

Donuel if you are referring to yourself, you haven't been a messenger of anything, you have not given any background you have basically trolled in a whopper as a starter and then sat back and watched the fun.

And speaking of attacks, your link is to a blatant attack of, I presume, your own devising.

Nice going, I'm so impressed.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 11:28 AM

A bit more on the crazy theories after the tsunami:

Mohamed Faizeen (German transliteration), chairman of the Center of Islamic Studies in Colombo, has the proof that Allah has sent the wave "as punishment for the humans not following his laws". You can even see Allah's signature in a satellite picture of the wavefront:

click

Sometimes these pictures I link to don't show here, so I tell it in case you don't see it yourself: A curved 'W' is seen in the wavefront with a bit of phantasy, a part of Alla's name in Arab writing. Reminds me of Christians seeing Satan's picture in the smoke on Sept 11th, 2001.

German rightwing nuts believe in the Jewish-American bomb triggering the event: Why else were so few Americans and Jews among the victims?

Not to foget the UFO buffs: Extraterrestrials have sent ther wave to correct the earth rotation (thanks anyway, but wasn't there a way with less victims; ET?). That fits well with some observations of a red triangle in the sky over India in the night before the wave.

Some other followers of the extraterrestrial idea see the ETs as less helpful: A superior intelligence plans the reduction of mankind to roughly 1 billion by exploding a supervolkano. The tiny earthquake and tsunami we have witnessed is but the last testrun before they really hit.

For the more scientifically minded: Ther real reason was a seismic test off the coast of Australia done for prospecting oil and gas (there's the oil angle!!!). The proof: 169 whales and dolphins have stranded at the coast of Tasmania just four weeks before the tsunami.

However, I think a German magazine hit upon the correct explanation when they blamed heavily overweight Helmut Kohl vacationating at the time of the disaster in Sri Lanka: "After Kohl's 'arse bomb' (if a diver dives arse first with the intention to make as big a splash as possible we call it an 'arse bomb') half of Asia flooded".

Yes, it was a satire magazine. But all other explanations are meant serious by those publishing them.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 05:10 PM

God's will arguments often work well with the ignorant.

Lately there is the Sponge Bob Square Pants conspiracy where SB and Patrick are actually preaching a gay life style to kids.

The writers for Sponge Bob countered with "A sponge is an asexual organism by definition."

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 05:12 PM

Mycoplasm bio terrorism

http://www.rense.com/general62/molecularterrorism.htm

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 05:22 PM

The WMD's have been found. They were in America all the time.

Under the first Bush, they were given by America to the Iraqis to gas Kurds and act as a deterrent to Iran.

They were completely destroyed by UNSCOM. Completely except for the ones in America which are being stockpiled.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 05:46 PM

nice nazi website there, Don'l.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 08:02 AM

Frank, this is not a thread about Iraq.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 09:15 AM

Allah is signing his work now??????????