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BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08
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Subject: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:41 PM Well, a secret memo has surfaced where the Bush administration has plans in shutting down 80% of all US colleges in his second term. According to the contents of this memo, these colleges are just hotbeds of liberalism and are therefore a threat to the United States. John Ashcroft, after leaving as Director of Homeland Security, will be in charge of the operation. When asked how the United States would compete in a world market without an educated working force Mr. Bush responded with "Hunh, are you talkin' to me?"....... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Once Famous Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:51 PM Bobert Where do you come up with this crap? Why does your life revolve around it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:02 PM It doesn't, MG.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Ebbie Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:46 PM Bobert, this is all I found on the subject of any colleges closing: Rumors of Colleges Closing: True? False? Do you know of any other sites I can go to get more information? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Amos Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:08 AM Bobbers: Did this story have a source (other than yourself alone) that we could share? It would be highly improved thereby. Sounds like he would do it but it seems unlikely he will or could. A lot of colleges./... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: LadyJean Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:28 AM Have you sent this to Snopes? They're marvellous for checking out rumors. While you're at Snopes, check out the picture of the queen with the Scottish officers. It's a howl! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: number 6 Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:35 AM They'll be no need for all those colleges. All the high paying skilled job requirements will be off shore. You don't need a university education to work at WalMart, Home Depot or McDonalds. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Pauline L Date: 30 Dec 04 - 03:05 AM Number 6 is so right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Hrothgar Date: 30 Dec 04 - 03:49 AM The whole thing is unlikely because Dubya can't count up to 80%. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Big Al Whittle Date: 30 Dec 04 - 07:13 AM Any chance of an 80% cut in college kid movies? I know you did last semester in Porkies 5 - the revenge...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Rapparee Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:50 AM Notre Dame? Hebrew Union? Bob Jones U.? Oral Roberts? MIT? Culver-Stockton? Juilliard? BYU? I mean, I don't really care about the University of Miami, but William and Mary or UVa Charlottesville might distress me some. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Kim C Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:56 AM Hahahaha. Very funny. Not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:59 AM Dunno, Bobert. This sounds so unbelievable that it just seems like another Bush Bash. There are so many real threats to get concerned about. Seems like it would be better to focus on them than wild rumors like this. This ain't going to happen. And I can't stand Bush and consider him realllll dangerous. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Once Famous Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:02 AM Bobert is just scraping the bottom of the barrel with his obsession. Why don't you and Amos get together and try to design some wallpaper? Or count railroad ties between stations? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:13 PM Bobert, I believe it!! (Whoops, sorry. There's that damn faith-based crap again!) Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Rapparee Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:26 PM Besides, Bobert, it ain't needful. The stuff taught these days is so watered-down and dumbed-down that it's insipid at best. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:42 PM Ahhhhh, Martin, you'll be happy to know that Amos and I have started the Acme Wallpaper Company and have come up with several exciting new lines... You'll love our Dumba line. Under the correct light Dumba looks as if he's actually drooling. I'm sure you'll also be interested in our Martin Gibson line. Makes George Carlin look like a Boy Scout... Other lines were working on: The Condi Rice porno line (come on and admit that she's a hottie fir a facist), the Dummsy line that emmits a foul odor and the Cheney WMD line... Stay tuned for those exciting releases... Oh, speaking of releases, would you mind if we borrowed the odor emmision aspect of the Dummsy line for the Martin G line... It really would help it along.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Once Famous Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:44 PM LOL. You should call it the Comdom Rice line. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Amos Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:56 AM Sounds like a special recipe from a very twisted secret cathouse somewhere. Boobie Be A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: DougR Date: 31 Dec 04 - 07:32 PM Bobert: I think you have April Fool mixed up with Happy New Year. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 31 Dec 04 - 08:03 PM Danged calendar... Don't make 'um like they used to... Sorry, Dougie and Happy Groundhog Day, Big Guy... Bobert p.s. Sorry... I forgot to tell ya about the DougR line of wallpaper which is a nice compliment, no, make that agreeable, with the Dumba line... It was Amos's idea so you'll have to tahnk him.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: dianavan Date: 01 Jan 05 - 12:08 AM Ah Bobert - just wonderin' if the Martin G line includes the paste or do we have to use shit to make it stick to the walls? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Frank Date: 01 Jan 05 - 11:46 AM Bush is opposed to public education. He is a product of private schools and derived much of his education through contacts he had through his father and grandfather (a board of trustees member at Yale). Bush is not an intellectual personality and has disdain for this kind of thing. He, in a way, can be said to be a leader of the cult of stupidity. It's in his pattern to eschew learning as being valuable. He prefers the role of failed businessman and "wag the dog" president. (He created a war so that he can be commander-in-chief. He relishes mangling the english language as a badge of honor.Many citizens identify with this and have kept him in office not because of his accomplishments but more because of his "identity". There is a mood in the country of anti-education and anti-intellectualism that many are brandishing as kind of a populist sword by which they are cutting off their own legs. Bush's pandering to the lunatic religious fringe which now speak for much of congress will ensure that a decent education will not be available to most Americans. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Rapparee Date: 01 Jan 05 - 12:05 PM Ah, GUEST Frank, I attended a parochial grade school, a Catholic high school, a Catholic college, and got a graduate degree from a private University. I have gone to three public universities as well, but graduated from none of them. My wife attended Catholic grade school, high school, college, and graduate school. She received her law degree from a state school. My friend Peggy attended Catholic grade school, high school, college, and graduate school. My friend Ben attended public grade school, public high school, a Yeshiva, Hebrew Union College, and got a doctorate from Yeshiva University. None of them distains state-supported schools. And I could name others. It's not W's educational background. It's W. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Visitor Date: 02 Jan 05 - 03:15 PM A few of you have serious problems that you need to see someone about. You have no personal relationship with the President, you probably have never even listened to more than a 1 minute sound bite of the man, and yet you profess to knowing that he is either dangerous, dumb, or both. The big difference is that if a Clinton opponent had said a similar negative thing about Clinton, they said it as a joke. You guys aren't joking. Another big difference between Clinton and Bush is that Clinton went for absolute victory, including rubbing it in his opponents' faces, if he could. Remember the incident where the Republicans had to get off the back of Air Force One? There are plenty of other examples I could cite of how Clinton rubbed his victories in the GOP's faces. No wonder they wouldn't let the impeachment mess go without taking it as far as possible. Now, if you want to be angry, jaded people like Michael Moore, we can't stop you, but most people aren't going to pay much attention to you until become more than the angry, bitter opposition; you'll have to come up with a whole alternative philosophy and persuade us that following your approach will get us to a better place than where Bush is leading us. Right now you guys have nothing close to a coherent, positive message that competes with Bush & the GOP. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bill D Date: 02 Jan 05 - 03:28 PM we competed 49+% worth..*grin*...and last time it was 50+%....a few more reasonably counted votes in Florida, and Bushbaby would be a distant, weird blip on the radar by now. Bush's 'wins' were hardly an overwhelming statement. And the opinions about his basic competence are not exactly confined to disgruntled Mudcat regulars. Of COURSE it will require some rethinking of strategy to retake the helm in the country, but the way Bush & Co. are doing some things, that may not be as hard as it looks. and G.W. Bush IS dangerous, dumb in several important areas, and dreadfully lacking in basic empathy for common folks.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: CarolC Date: 02 Jan 05 - 03:39 PM But on the positive side, shutting down 80% of colleges will do wonders for increasing military recruitment. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Frank Date: 02 Jan 05 - 06:39 PM BTW, discouragement of intellectualism and disdain for learning is also an aspect of fascism. Adhering to a strict party line with abuse for those who disagree is totalitarianism associated with fascism. Book burning, and gutting of educational institutions also follow. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Amos Date: 02 Jan 05 - 06:58 PM From a Providence paper: Robert Kuttner: Fear Bush, not 'the government' 01:00 AM EST on Sunday, January 2, 2005 Next year, 1.3 million college students will receive reduced Pell grants for college aid. Another 89,000 currently eligible students will get no aid at all. These cuts will save the Bush administration about $300 million -- a small part of what it needs to pay for its tax cuts and military forays. Here's how Terry W. Hartle, vice president of the American Council on Education, characterized the situation to The New York Times: "Season's Greetings from Uncle Sam," Hartle said sarcastically. "Your student-aid stocking is going to be a little thinner this year." Excuse me. It isn't Uncle Sam playing Scrooge. It's the Bush administration. I've noticed a pattern here. The Bush administration makes a concerted effort to disparage "the government." That's not surprising; this administration believes in cutting taxes, mostly on the wealthy, and reducing services to everyone else. The less confidence people have in government, the easier it is to sell tax cuts. But what is distressing is that people who should know better -- even advocates of public services -- are falling into the trap of confusing "the government" with a particular administration and its policies. Mr. Hartle, repeat after me: "Season's Greetings from President Bush. . ." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 02 Jan 05 - 08:46 PM Well, ya gotta hand it to him, Amos and others. Bush is doing what every Republican (and a few Dems) presidents have tried to do for the last 60 some years. Kill of the New Deal... Which, of course, gets us closer to the *old deal*, in which Boss Hog has everything and everyone else nuthin', Jim Crow and, boy of boy, were them the good old days 'er what... "Hey, Bubba, whatcha wanta do Saturday night? Get drunk 'er string up some commie or nigga? Or maybe we'll just do both..." Oh yeah. That can't happen to America. Home of brave and land of the free... Stick yer danged Bushite heads in a history book, will ya... Oh, they've taken that book out of the library? Heck, pal, thet took the entire library... Beam me up... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: DougR Date: 03 Jan 05 - 12:11 AM Bobert: I think you view yourself as a "progressive" don't you? If so, why do you persist in remaining in the 20th Century? I thought "progressives" (read liberal) prided themselves on being "on the go", ready to improve things, while conservatives dug the heels in and rejected change, but you want to preserve "The New Deal", an idea that expired ages ago. Bush has introduced an idea that will revolutionize the Social Security Program. Private investment accounts for younger workers that will bring them a larger return on their invested funds than will be possible under the existing program. Who is digging in their heels and determined not to change the existing program that, by all reputable accounts cannot survive beyond 2040 or so? "Progressives!" DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: michaelr Date: 03 Jan 05 - 12:32 AM Guest Visitor -- if you can't see that this administration's policies are both dumb and dangerous, those two adjectives apply to you as well. Doug, you must be independently wealthy. The New Deal was designed to provide a safety net for the poor. To advocate dismantling it is the height of callousness toward those worse off than you. Michael |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: CarolC Date: 03 Jan 05 - 12:42 AM Private investment accounts for younger workers that will bring them a larger return on their invested funds than will be possible under the existing program. Tell that to the people who lost their whole retirement income in the Enron debacle (and the other similar massive bankruptcies we've seen of late). I don't think they would perceive Bush's big Social Security privatization idea as a progressive one. It's just warmed over pre-FDR fleecing of the poor. It's not just non-progressive, it's retrogressive all the way back to the first half of the 1900s. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Biskit~ just passin' through~ Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:06 AM "It's a secret memo" really Bobert and how were you privy to this information,..why! I read it on the internet! oh! I read it in the Rolling Stone, it's GOT to be true! You folks really need to get focused. If you don't like the way thimgs are going, write your elected represnative, form a coalition of like minded people, and air your grievences where it will do some good, whineing on the mud cat and slinging mud won't accomplish anything. GEEZUS! ~Peace! Through understanding~ ~Biskit~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Biskit~ just passin' through~ Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:13 AM Carol C, The Enron Debacle was on Bill's watch,..the Bush administration just called them on it. ~B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 03 Jan 05 - 08:44 AM Biskit, I've written 100's, maybe 1000's of letters over the last 30 some years. Heck, I write 'um to my congresspeople, other folks congress people, tv ministers, newspapers, etc, etc... And I will continue to do that but it doesn't do mush good when the system is corruprted by rich people. And, no, Doug, inmmay respects I am not at all progressive by your definition... I would like to see a society that holds the same views on the New Deal, capital punishment and even civil rights that we had when we alected Jimmy Carter. It was a much more caring society than the one we have now... I am surprised that you call yourself a conservative yet approve of a very radical foriegn policy based on wacking folks who you think might one day want to wack you, even if it is obvious that they neither have tyhe capabilities or the stupidity to do so... There is nothing conservative about that at all... Nor do conservatives like administartions that spend lots more than they got. But I don't hear you complaining about that either... No, in the big scheme of things I am far more conservative than you! Just call me a progressive conservative, thank you... Meaning we build on the good.. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Larry K Date: 03 Jan 05 - 10:01 AM Maybe Paul Simon had it right "although my lack of education hasn't hurt me none, I can read the writing on the wall" Why would anyone take this thread seriously? How about some other threads: Hillary Clinton to make abortion mandatory if elected Bob Dole will require all people to have one arm removed John Kerry will require all future political candidates to have Botox injections Newt Gingrich will make the newt the state anilmal of Georgia Senator Bryd will wear his former KKK robes at all senate hearings Elizabeth Dole will require all schools to only serve pineapple juice Bill Clinton will have oral sex with an intern and than claim its a right wing conspiracy (sorry- that thread has alread been done) Just remember- 6 months ago I couldn't spell graduate and now I are one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Once Famous Date: 03 Jan 05 - 10:20 AM Guest, visitor had it completely right! Please hang around as some of us do appreciate your common sense wisdom. Again, Frank claims to be privy as to what the president thinks and knows. This guy should become his press secretary. Facism this and facism that. Like a fucking broken record. Hand wringers of the world.....Unite! There are 3 or 4 oracles on Mudcat who will lead you to a better socialist America! They have all of the answers to everything about this facist country we live in. Everything except how to keep their own morose and morbid lives happy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: CarolC Date: 03 Jan 05 - 01:06 PM The Enron Debacle was on Bill's watch,..the Bush administration just called them on it. Who cares who was president when it happened? The point is that many people lost their retirement incomes. The point is that if we privatize even part of the Social Security program, many people could find themselves without a retirement income, rather than with more money than they could get from Social Security under Bush's idea for how to change the Social Security system, as DougR has suggested. BTW, the Bush administration didn't call them on it. The Bush administration helped them cover it up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: DougR Date: 03 Jan 05 - 01:19 PM If you're looking for misinformation, take a good look at this thread. Carol C. twists the Bush Administration's handling of the Enron situation from prosecuting those that did wrong, to one of covering up the situation. Covering up? Is there anyone on the Mudcat or even in the United States that does not know about the Enron scandal? Carol's treatment of the history of the stock market is another excellent example. Sure there have been scandals associated with those who invest in the stock market, but there are far more success stories associated with it. Where in the world do you think people get wealth from? Bobert is another spreader of misinformation. Read the third paragraph of his last message. He doesn't even acknowledge that terrorists blew up the twin towers! He speaks of the terrorists being stupid and unable to mount an attack on a U. S. city. Tell that to the families of those who lost loved ones on 9/11 Robert. You probably feel pretty insulated living there in West-By-God-Virginia, ole friend, and I feel pretty much the same here in Arizona, but to believe they could not, or do not want, to hit us is just plain stupid. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bill D Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:06 PM oh my! "Private investment accounts for younger workers that will bring them a larger return on their invested funds ...." will? how about 'might', if they are lucky. As Carol said, Enron shows how easy it is to LOSE it all. Do you think schemers will stop scheming once SS investment comes in? "Friends!! Put your retirement account in our hands, and watch it grow. You may contact us anytime at our Cayman Islands email address." Bush & his circle simply have no comprehension of what it feels like to live frugally... and little empathy for those who are not clever enough to be born into a nice conservative Rupublican 'upper' class situation! "Invest your money!" ...and what about those who will NEVER have enough to invest? The gap grows wider........... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Pauline L Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:24 PM Yesterday I was at Barnes and Noble and looked at a new book of writings by Nelson Mandela. I've read some of his other writings, so I knew this would be good, but, since the price was $24, I just looked at it in the store. On the subject of education, Mandela wrote of the legacy of the educational system started by Verwoerd (sp?). The latter advocated educating people to a degree consistent with their opportunities. The Bantu, for example, would not need more than an eighth grade education. Maybe Bush is just carrying forward the tradition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: CarolC Date: 03 Jan 05 - 03:11 PM My point had nothing whatever to do with culpability for the Enron debacle. It was entirely about whether or not Bush's plan for privatizing all or part of the Social Security program is a good idea. And those who are pushing for that change in Social Security, DougR and Biskit for example, instead of dealing with the merits (or lack thereof) of the point that I did make, are changing the subject and instead trying to turn the discussion into a debate on who bears responsibility for what happened to Enron. The idea that because there are more successes in the stock market than disasters doesn't address the problems that will come with privatizing Social Security. The stock market is still a crap shoot, even if it is a somewhat less risky crap shoot than some other kinds of gambling. But it is still gambling. If even one family looses their retirement income because of bad luck in the stock market, that's too many because in reality, it could happen to any of us. BTW, DougR, the coverup I was referring to happened before the public became aware of the Enron scandal, but during Bush's first term as president. I'd say you're the one who is spreading misinformation about the history of the Enron scandal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: CarolC Date: 03 Jan 05 - 03:14 PM Very interesting point, Pauline L. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 03 Jan 05 - 05:43 PM Yeah, DougR, like I said, you Bushites can't even read the English language. Go back to my third papragraph and reread it. I mean, if you are going to try to use soemthing I've written as a jumping off point for a rebuttal then I'd think you'd at least read what you are rebutting. If you'd like, you can cut and paste both what I wrote in the 3rd paragraph (in its entirety) and then your posted rebuttral (in its entirity)... If you will do just that and nothing more then I will "rest my case" without a single other word posted on that particular point on the remainer of this thread... Fair enough? BTW, I hear that the ACME reading correspondance course is being offered again... I've signed up for the typing class mayself... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Biskit Date: 03 Jan 05 - 08:28 PM CarolC S'cuse me Ma'am, but you are mistaken, I haven't tried to change any subject what-so-ever,..however you can't just spew accusations and point fingers at will and not expect an oppposing view. I'm sorry it disagrees with your world view. Last time I checked one of our inalienable rights were freedom of speech, but that does not give you the right to make false accusations and not be called on it. Peace! (through Understanding) ~Biskit~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jan 05 - 08:31 PM Doug, the New Deal laws and regulations reined in the rampant corporate abuses and mismanagement that led to the Depression, and they gave the poor working slob (including those who had grown too old to work and who, during their work lives, had not been able to save anything for their retirement—a situation alleviated by the initiation of the Social Security program) a measure of fair treatment for a change. The idea has not expired. In fact, most European countries are way ahead of the United States in programs of this nature, hence the fact that the average European enjoys a richer, fuller life than the average American (you will, of course, dispute this, but that is the consensus of large numbers of world travelers). Reagan explicitly stated that he intended to reverse the programs that were started by FDR, and Bush is dedicated to killing them off entirely, thus returning the United States to the nineteenth century. Trying to characterize Bush as a "progressive" is ridiculous. Orwellian, in fact. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Once Famous Date: 03 Jan 05 - 08:34 PM Ah, Biskit she's apparently been doing it for years here. Arguing with her is like talking to a wall. At this point, ridicule is just more fun. As far as Bantu goes, an 8th grade average education is pretty good considering the amount of high tech and professional employment there is in that backwards country. As in, zilch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: CarolC Date: 03 Jan 05 - 08:46 PM So which part of my point about privatizing Social Security did you disagree with then, Biskit? Here's the text of the specific post of mine that you were responding to: Private investment accounts for younger workers that will bring them a larger return on their invested funds than will be possible under the existing program. --quote from DougR Tell that to the people who lost their whole retirement income in the Enron debacle (and the other similar massive bankruptcies we've seen of late). I don't think they would perceive Bush's big Social Security privatization idea as a progressive one. It's just warmed over pre-FDR fleecing of the poor. It's not just non-progressive, it's retrogressive all the way back to the first half of the 1900s. --my response You didn't address this point at all in your response to my post. All you did was tell me that it happened under the presidency of Bill Clinton. Please, if you can, help me understand how your response has anything whatever to do with my original point that privatizing Social Security is a bad idea because it's too big of a risk to the future retiree and his or her ability to have an income to live on after they retire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: CarolC Date: 03 Jan 05 - 08:52 PM Personally, I think there are an awful lot of people who, when they see the word Enron, their mind goes blank and the only thing they can think of or say is "Bill Clinton did it". Well, maybe he did (and maybe he didn't), but what in the world has that got to do with whether or not privatizing Social Security is a good or a bad idea? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 03 Jan 05 - 08:56 PM Privatizing SS is like treating illness with leeches... I mean, look at Bush's big tax cuts and look at the deficit for an example... BObert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Biskit Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:04 PM CarolC, good point only I thought it was more like no matter what blame Bush,..pardon me if I'm wrong but didn't you blame the Bush administration for a cover up of the Enron Debacle?? (see bottom part of your 3rd post) THAT is what I disagree with, as far as the "privatizing of social security goes,..have you got a better idea? I've been paying into s.s since I was 11 years old..I want someone to come up with some sort of idea as to how I can recoup some of my money. I'm fairly certain if you would come up with a better idea,(one that would actually work in the long term) or for that matter if anyone would come up with a better idea, and I don't mean increasing my tax burden!, then submit that sucker! I'l back you all the way. Peace! Through Understanding ~Biskit~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:21 PM Well, Biskit, there are lots of plans out there... One of which is creating a surcharge on income over $80,000 a year per person. The current system exempts all wages above that amount. In other word, the SS sysytem is regressive in that the rich allready are exempted from participation beyond the $80,000 a year mark. If you were to put a surcharge on those earnings of 3 or 4% then SS would be solvent until well past 2050 without putting old folks into poverty... That's just one idea... Bleeding the system ain't gonna fix anything... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: CarolC Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:21 PM CarolC, good point only I thought it was more like no matter what blame Bush,..pardon me if I'm wrong but didn't you blame the Bush administration for a cover up of the Enron Debacle?? (see bottom part of your 3rd post) THAT is what I disagree with Biskit, if you look at the timing of the posts, you will see that your assertion that it was all Clinton's fault came before my assertion that Bush participated in a coverup. Unless you have the ability to travel in time, I really don't see how your post could have been in response to a point I had not yet made. as far as the "privatizing of social security goes,..have you got a better idea? Sure. I've got lots of better ideas. But this thread is about education, not Social Security. I think we've carried this thread creep about as far as it ought to go. However, whether or not you would support my ideas is pretty irrelevant, really. The government (either Democrat or Republican, take your pick) is going to screw both you and me in the end anyway. (Apologies ahead of time if this post appears twice, my first attempt seems to have vanished.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Biskit Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:29 PM okay Bobert because I have worked hard, and created my business that has been able to provide for my family, put my children through college, and put away a little nestegg for my wife and I, I should be penalized for applying myself and working long hard hours, by having to pay higher taxes because I earn more than you do?? what kind of horse poop is that! If you want as much as I have, work for it damnit! ~Biskit~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:47 PM Ahhhh, if yer making over $80,000 a year then why should you be exempted from paying SS on earnings over $80, 000 when the poor guy making 12 bucks and hour isn't exempted from any of it? SS is a regressive tax as it it is. Just how much more regressive would *you* like it, biscuit? Minimum wage earners? Welfare mothers? Think about it... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Biskit Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:34 AM Bobert, there is no-one other than oneself keeping him where he is. I dropped out of high school 'cause my Dad broke his back, I needed to help out, I always meant to go back and finish, but never quite got around to it,..but I could read, and read I did! I learned about buisness while I was making a hell of a lot less than the"poor guy" making 12 bucks an hour. I improved my station in life through grit, determination, and hard work. I have compassion for the folks with physical or mental afflictions that limit their abilities to make a living. I contribute to many charities throughout the year, not as a tax break, but as one human being to another. to help those who cannot help themselves. I have no pity for someone that won't try to do better for themselves or for their family. A second or third generation welfare Mom,..they should keep their legs together and go to work, lead by example, Welfare is to help folks out temporarily, PERIOD! minimum wage earners?? I used to make below minimum wage, I live in Arizona, a right to work state,..I didn't like it so I did something about it. The world does not owe you a living, nor a retirement. The folks that got screwed by Enron,..I am so sorry that happened to them, but no-body held a gun to their head and made them invest in something with huge returns ( a lot of people, made a lot of money with Enron before the bubble burst)no one made them invest their money in risky buisness, during that same time I was investing in mutuals,and old established companys,..I made money slower, but I was able to keep most of it.and they had access to the same information that I did. I know I can't change the way you look at the world, anymore than you can change the way I do. I guess it'll probably be another year before I visit Mudcat again, this used to be a really friendly place before it got so damned political. We used to talk about music, and have singing circles, we didn't always agree, but that was okay, individualisim was promoted and incouraged. adios amigo ~Biskit~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Biskit Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:43 AM CarolC I never said it was "all Clintons fault" I said it was on his watch, just making an observation not an indictment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 04 Jan 05 - 07:56 AM Biskit, Ahhhhh, you remind me of the guy who buys property in the seedy area of town with an existing adult book store next door who turns around and complains to the city about the adult bookstore... Like you said, no one is holding a gun ro your head making you either read or participate in the BS threads so don't complain... You know where the sing around is... And as for your rant about folks on welfare. Hope that makes you feel all waem and fuzzy because it bears little resembelance to the real stories. I know. I spent the first half of my life working in various social programs, the last 8 with the Department of Social Services in Richmond, Va. You would do yourself well, since you say you are a good reader, to do a little investigating before throwing that right-wing, bumper-sticker knee-jerk rhetoric out as if it is true. Lastly, you missed the point entirely about the cap on SS... Or if you didn't it because he didn't want to address your own personal disagreement with paying into the system... I can live with that just so long as you are honest with yourself and others... It's no secret that SS is a regressive tax. That's not just my opinion. That is universally accepted. So if you say to me "Yes, I know it's regressive but I just don't want to pay into the system, Bobert" then that is at least honest. But don't try to change the subject by blaming some woman whoes husband has just run off with his girl friend and needs some help so her kids will have a roof over their heads tonight for your dislike for having to pay your fair share into Social Security... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Larry K Date: 04 Jan 05 - 09:29 AM I would love the optiong of privatizing my own social security funds. Those of you like Bobert and Carol C. would have the option of leaving your funds in Social Security and getting your 1% average return each year. Personally, I would fire my broker if he had an average return of only 1% during the last 40 years. In reviewing my investments over the past 20 years, I have averaged over a 10% increase each year. That includes the losses following 9/11 and after black Tuesday about 15 years ago. I would much rather take my chances managing my own money. Over the last 40 years, anyone who invests in the stock market would have done better than anyone in social security. Yes the gap widens. Those of you fools who prefer the 1% chump change from social security and those of us wise enough to invest it properly. You can probably finds municipal bonds that would pay you 5% and be a very safe investment. but you prefer the 1% from the government. Why don't you buy some lottery tickets while your at it. Yes- I earn over $80,000 and am in the top 10% of wage earners in the US. According to the IRS, my group earns 46% of all the income in the US but pays 67.3% of all the taxes. We are very overtaxed. The top 50% of people in the US pay 96% of the taxes. Basically, the bottom half are not carrying their weight. Why is that fair? I spent Christmas vacation at a friends estate who told me he paid $400,000 in taxes last year. And democrats still complain that the rich don't pay enough taxes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Donuel Date: 04 Jan 05 - 11:18 AM The political reasoning of who gets higher education has been around longer than the Bush dynasty. Even Nixon viewed creating more university students as handing a stick to his enemies. The GI bill put a glut of "unprivileged class" professors in the market. Now that they and their progeny are dying off, the time is ripe for the priviledged class to own college educations to the exclusion of the unwashed masses. The university is not a hotbed for radicals any more. And if there are any hot heads, they get nipped in the bud. The few times W has spoken at College graduations, the student body was informed prior to the event that any public dissent of the President would be met with immediate expulsion and revocation of earned credits. One unfortunate result of the 40 year policy to increasingly reserve education for a priveliged class is that universities rely heavily upon foreign students. But now the patriot act sceptor hanging over foreign students as well as scientists increasingly being denied the right to do certain research in the US means that they are going elsewhere for education and scientific advances. The brain drain of the US seems to be in full swing...and I'm not just talking about fearless leader. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Frank Date: 04 Jan 05 - 11:48 AM Paying taxes is the price we pay for living in a civilized society. Those who work hard don't often make the money that those who work less hard do. Paying taxes for a decent school system is the way to insure that you will have an informed populace who are able to make intelligent choices when they vote. A good education should not be just for the wealthy. A true democracy is where everyone benefits, not just a selfish few. Those who are successful in business in the US owe it to their government who supplies them with decent roads to drive on, safe streets when the police are supported through taxes, an adequate postal service and many other amenities that are taken for granted. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Biskit~ just passin' through~ Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:25 PM Bobert& Frank, I paid $73,023.15 in taxes last year, I don't cheat, I pay what is owed. how much is enough? I've never drawn a selfish breath in my life I work hard long hours to provide my children with a education, and I certainly don't believe any one would consider me wealthy. We live well because we tried harder and succeded after (by the way) many failures. but we kept trying because we knew no-one was going to do it for us nor should we expect them to. There ain't no free rides in this world mister get used to the idea. and Bobert before you start slavering over your keyboard again perhaps you should read everything I said. Welfare is to help people get on their feet again, and should be used as such. I know of several success stories of folks I know, that have used it for exactly that, and have risen above the muck that their lives had become, and become succesful members of the community. and do you know why Bobert?? Because they wanted to do better for themselves and their families. It is called initiative Bobert. They didn't sit around feeling sorry for themselves over what a terrible hand life dealt them, they got busy and did something about it. Biskit |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: DougR Date: 04 Jan 05 - 03:08 PM Biskit: your points are very valid in my opinion. You may not understand, though, that folks like Bobert blame just about every inequity in life on the rich folks in our society. IMO people should not be penalized because they are successful. Nor do I believe that it is the responsibility of those who are successful to support those who are not for the rest of their lives. People who have worked hard and amassed a fortune are taxed enough as it is. Additonal taxation, as Bobert suggests, is excessive and unfair. But that's just MO. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Biskit~ just passin' through~ Date: 04 Jan 05 - 03:49 PM DougR As Auntie Mame once said,"Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death" They are so blinded by their hatred they are unable to see opportunity when it's right in front of them. I guess some folks like it in the muck. Peace! Through Understanding ~Biskit~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: CarolC Date: 04 Jan 05 - 05:48 PM I said it was on his watch, just making an observation not an indictment. It looked to me more like "no matter what, blame Clinton". Or at least the same sort of knee jerk response you say you felt a need to comment on when you thought that was what I was doing with regard to Bush. Incidently, I think they're both (Clinton and Bush) guilty as hell. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 04 Jan 05 - 06:45 PM Well, well, well... We got the Dougie and Biskit warm and fuzzy rich guys show... Awww, jus funnin'... kinda... You siad all most of us need to hear, Bis, when you said you paid over $70,000 in taxes... Maybe you have confused Mudcat with Fatcat... Hey, I don't know what you do for a living but it certainly ain't playing folk music. Do you realize that you and Dougie probably represent the upper 1% of wage earners in this joint. Most folk here don't make $70,000 a year, let alone half that and work their butts off, like me, to make waht we make... I figure, based on you taxes that you and your wife have a combined annual income in the $400,000 range. You may not think that alot of dough because you spent Christmas with friends who pay $400,000 a year in taxes which means they are making a couple million dollars a year... Okay, Mudcat community. Let have a big ol' cry for Biskit, making $400,000 a year and his buddy making $2,000,000... Sniff... Does aqnyone have a Kleenex? Okay, Bis... Ya wanta know somethin'? The American economy isn't built so that everyone can make that kind of money, no matter how hard they try... It just doesn't have those kinda overpaying jobs to go around for everyone. Might of fact, the number of overpaying jobs is purdy much where it's been. No matter how hard you work. On the other side of the coin, the *other jobs* that the we peons perform pay have been paying less and less every year since 1981. (Hmmmm, Bobert, isn't that about the time that Ronnie Reagan took office?...) Since then we, the real working class, have suffered from loss of spending power year by year as those in your tax category are getting fatter and fatter... HEY, BUSTER! We are the one's producing your friggin' wealth, not vice versa. We're the ones working on you assembly lines, building your homes and cars and the crap you *can't live without*... Labor creates 100% of wealth!!! Not 99%!!! Don't believe it? Take you friggin' $400,000 out the driveway next time it snows an' tell *IT* to shovel the snow! Tell, your $400,000 to build a car or take care of you kid at the emergency room.... Get it yet? Nope. Didn't think so... When the chips are down all you rich crybabies can do is recite the percentage that you pay in taxes, like some mantra. Well gol danged, Bis, you should because you and your $2,000,000 Christmas buddy, ahhh, have all the friggin' money!!! You have folks here at Mudcat playing gigs for $50 a night... I'd dare say that a good 90% of the folks here at Mudcat never have made in a year what you pay in taxes... Pass the Kleenex... Poor ol' rich guys don't wanta pay taxes. So what else is new... Oh yeah, it' because Bertha Williams, single working mom with 3 kids in NE Washington, DC, who's trying to support her family on her $7.50 job and is getting assistance from the Dept. of Social Services or some poor sleph who's worked all his life at Boss Hog' Widget Factory who would, ahhhh, actually like to put a fishing pole in the water but will end up dieing on that assembly line becuase Biskit and his $2M buddy think they deserve to corral all the wealth for their own danged greedy selves... Been like that forever. There are rich greedy folks who think they are friggin' *entitled* and the rest of the population living off what they spill or drop off the table... Like I said, pass the Kleenex... Poor ol' Biskit... and... beam my butt up, Scottie... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: DougR Date: 04 Jan 05 - 10:50 PM Bobert: I happen to know what Bisket does for a living. It does not involve a beautiful corner office in some highrise, but involves a lot of risk and a lot of labor on his part. I have no idea what he earns, but knowing what he does, I can assure you he earns it. He does not live the "cushy" live you describe. As to me, you have absolutely no idea what I do, or what I earn, or what taxes I pay. So describe either of us as you have is ...well just typical of Bobert. Shooting from the lip. But I still think you are a good ole boy in spite of your shortcomings. I heard from a very good source today that Bush plans to close down all colleges and universities by the end of his current term and have congress change the law preventing presidents from running for a third term. He was quoted as saying, "What's good enough for FDR is good enough for me!" So you and your coharts had better start tooling up for 2008! IMO Hillery and Jerry haven't a change! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Biskit Date: 05 Jan 05 - 12:10 AM 'nough said |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 05 Jan 05 - 07:14 PM Thankee, Dougie, fir the inside poop... Maybe I'll start seriously thinking about what and what not to take with me to New Zealand... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Claymore Date: 05 Jan 05 - 10:49 PM For all those arguing over Social Security and the New Deal, you forget one thing. The New Deal of Social Security under FDR was just a pittance, and never intended by anyone of the period to be what it has become, a substantial portion of any persons retirement. It wasen't until the COLAs, indexing, and upward adjustments of benefits under Johnson, that the Social Security System became what it is today. The New Deal died in the War on Poverty. As for the ability to invest a persons money out of his Social Security payments; no-one is planning on making anyone do anything they don't want to do. If you want to stay in the present system, you simply opt out, thereby making every portion of CarolCs arguement simply irrelevent to the discussion at hand. Simply say NO. Now as to those "poor souls" who lost their "entire life savings" in the Enron failure; did any of you actually read the numbers? There was one example pointed out in the Washington Post where a man who was working for Enron making $70 thousand a year, and who had worked for the company for 5 years, lost $400,000 dollars of his "life savings", without putting any real money of his own in, since it was not a 401K plan, simply continued stock options. What simian idiot actually believed that by working for a company for 5 years you would have $400,000 in your retirement fund? Those greedy idiots actually believed the crap they were selling on the open market. And we are still actually giving sympathy to those twits? And Bobert, I'm sorry to say that labor never created any wealth, ever. It is called compound interest, which results in Captial, and is called capitalism. All of the other economic systems are currently defunct... And it seems easy enough to do, since foreigners come to this country with out speaking a word of our language, and become capitalists on the spot. My brother once had an anecdote about the future of labor. In the future everything we need will be made by machines. Each machine will have two additional components; a man and a dog. The man's job will be to feed the dog. The dog's job will to keep the man away from the machine... I've always said that life was an IQ test... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,' Date: 05 Jan 05 - 10:57 PM Not a bad thought regarding the state US statistics/
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 05 Jan 05 - 11:02 PM Bull, Claymore... Labor has created *all* wealth. I don't see how a smart guy like you can deny this.. Money is man-made. It it artificial. It is nothing more tha a medium of excahnge. It, in itself, is worthless. Totally worthless... Don't think so? Put a sack of money in your chair and see how it does in doing your job. Tell ya' what, Claymore... How about going a tad beyond your *procalmation* and elaborate on just why you think an artifical medium of exchange has ever *produced* anything.... I, for one, will be looking forward to this essay... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: CarolC Date: 06 Jan 05 - 12:45 AM Ok, I'll give another example. When the stock market took a nosedive a decade or so ago, my father lost a percentage of his eventual retirement income. He was a "widow's and orphan's" kind of stock investor, and he worked hard all of his working life for essentially the same company. He paid into the Social Security system, and he planned well for his retirement (within the scope of what he had to work with). He was a project manager and engineer for AT&T (and Bell Telephone) In his retirement, he is able to keep a comfortable, but somewhat reduced standard of living. Without Social Security, his circimstances would be tight. I don't believe for a minute that bit about people being able to just opt out of the plan. Maybe at first, but there's no way you're going to convince me that the ultimate goal isn't the complete elimination of the Social Security program. We've been lied to far to many times by Mr. Bush for me to be willing to believe anything he has to say about anything. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 06 Jan 05 - 06:07 PM I'll tell ya what, CarolC... It's these Bushites who will be the first to scream "Bloody Murder" if their circumstances cahnge and they need a little help from the governemnt. (And why is that, Bobert?) Well, I'll tell ya why. Most of 'um have entitlement mentalities. Yeah, as long as they are the beneficiaries of the system all is well... Think Halliburton here and then reduce it down and you'll see what I mean... The Social Security system haS taking millions and millions of America's elderly out of poverty. The Bushites forget that. They think it's like welfare 'er somethin' meanwhile they check out their stock port folios filled with stocks fo companies that rip off the government and/or the American people. And many of them work for these companies, I might add. That's what I mean by "entitement mentality". Bobert Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Jan 05 - 11:05 PM Doug R. et al.-- Obviously, this thread is not to be taken seriously (80% colleges closed by 2008). Bobert probably just wanted to pull the chains of Bushites around here, a worthy endeavor, in which he has been brilliantly successful. However, if you really do care to debate the Social Security "reform" proposed by our mighty leader, you are cordially invited to the thread dedicated to that, which I have just resurrected for your edification and contributions. Specifically Doug, you are referred to my post of 17 November 2004 9:53 PM. I'm still waiting for my answer. Admittedly the Wall St Journal investment columnist -- (who predicted "disaster" without "a slew of safeguards" for your and Bush's wonderful idea of Personal Savings Accounts)--did not, I suspect, pay $70,000 in taxes last year. However I submit that,, by virtue of that fact, he may, just possibly, be able to understand the position of most working folk better than the "Biskit and Doug Show" stars, who specialize in the well-known and well-loved Bushite attitude of "I'm all right, Jack" -- (if you don't understand that, ask our UK Mudcatters). Looking forward to your answer (finally) in the Social Security thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: GUEST,Larry K Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:24 PM No one is preventing Bobert or anyone else from making $400,000 a year or $4,000,000 a year. Only himself. If you can't make $400,000 a year in folk music than pick another field or accept that you made the choice to have a low paying job and enjoy the benefits of that choice. (My guess is that Dylan makes $400,000 a year from folk music so maybe it is possible) Here are a few figures from the IRS just so we are all consistant. Top 10% of wage earners: $92,500 earn 46% of income pay 67.35 of income |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: DougR Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:41 PM Ron Davies: read it. It's there. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: Bobert Date: 07 Jan 05 - 05:34 PM I wouldn't prostitute myself to do what folks do who earn $400,000... I'm perfectly happy with my more moderate life, thank you... And as for making $400,000 as a folk musican? Not too likely no matter how good you are... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush to shut down 80% of colleges by '08 From: CarolC Date: 07 Jan 05 - 05:59 PM No one is preventing Bobert or anyone else from making $400,000 a year or $4,000,000 a year. Only himself. This may be true. Or not. But if everyone decided that they weren't willing to work for any less than $400,000 a year, who would teach our children, protect us from criminals, process our bank transactions, build our houses, take care of our kids for us while we work, do the work that nurses do, haul away our garbage, and do all of the other essential services that we certainly aren't willing to pay people $400,000 a year to do? On the subject of paying $70,000 a year in taxes... how much of that is income tax, and how much is fuel tax? Fuel tax is a whole different ball of wax than income tax. And the Social Security money that is taken paid into the system is a whole other matter entirely. And real estate taxes and sales taxes, etc. etc. When a person says they pay $70,000 dollars a year in taxes, we really have no idea what their income might be unless it is broken down into specifics. |
