Origins: Old Joe Clark Parties

Subject: Origins: Old Joe Clark Parties
From: GUEST,Paul Castle
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 02:37 PM

I'm hoping someone out there in Mudcat land can
help with this request for some information.

A lady from Texas had been reading my research
into the origins/myths of Old Joe @
http://snipurl.com/oldjoeclark and wrote asking:

> "My mom [from Honey Grove, Texas ] used to attend
> "Old Joe Clark" parties when she was a young
> girl in 1935. Do you have any information about what
> this type of party involved?

> Presently, I'm trying to write a family history and I found
> mention of the "Old Joe Clark" party in some of her notes
> on how she and my father met. This was in 1939 in
> Fannin County near Honey Grove, Texas.

Although I'd not heard the term 'Old Joe Clark Parties'
before, I did manage to find one reference - on Bob
Shrader's 'History of Scranton, Texas' page @
http://www.members.tripod.com/~scrantontexas/history.html

in which he writes:

> Through the 1940s, gospel singing schools were
> common in the summer. A person would teach a
> school, usually at a church. It was not uncommon
> to find several people within a family who sang
> and played various musical instruments such as
> guitar, fiddle and banjo. These people often
> entertained at school social functions such as
> box suppers and pie suppers, which featured
> delicious fruit cobblers. "Old Joe Clark" parties
> were forerunners of the square dance.

If anyone knows how and where the term originated
(Kentucky, one would have thought) and how it spread
to Texas, and further afield (perhaps), we'd be most
interested to hear. Was this, indeed, in common usage
before the term 'square dance' (as suggested above)? -
throughout the Southern States and beyond?

very best for the New Year

Paul Castle
http://www.acousticmusicacrossthepond.com
http://www.rosinators.com

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Joe Clark Parties
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 01:28 AM

"Old Joe Clark" is supposed to be in Halliwell's "Nursery Rhymes, 1842, p. 135, but it is not in the 1846 edition that is on line. If Joe is in the 1842 edition, he is probably English.

A couple of versions of "Old Joe Clark" in Owens and Owens, 1976, "Texas Folk Songs," but no mention of Old Joe Clark parties.

Randolph, 1980 ed., "Ozark Folk-Songs," Vol. 3 no. 533, p. 324, speaks of the party game: The game as I have seen it played is a wild medley of figures from other games, and the fact that the same tune is played by fiddlers at the square dances still further complicates matters. Occasionally some gifted player, with a shrill whoop to attract attention to himself, executes a sort of jig or breakdown, while the chorus is sung loudly by the other dancers who gather about him. And I have attended two parties in which all figures were dispensed with and the players simply paired off and danced about in couples- a crude imitation of the round dances introduced by the tourists, except that there was no music save the singing of the players."

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Joe Clark Parties
From: GUEST,Paul Castle
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 12:50 PM

Thanks for this Q - I'll add it to my research
@ http://snipurl.com/oldjoeclark if I may.

> If Joe is in the 1842 edition, he is probably English

When I contacted Lisa Clark, who did the genealogical
research on Sexton's Creek, Kentucky, she told me that

> My earliest known English ancestor was born in 1546
> near the town of Marlow. His son William Lambdin Jr.
> was born in Marlow in 1597 and christened in the
> St. Martins-In-The-Fields Church. We haven't been
> able to get the Clarks back beyond 1750 when they
> were in North Carolina but feel sure they were either
> from England, Ireland or Scotland. The Scots-Irish
> are very prevalent in the mountains where our Clarks
> were from.

But no mention of the term 'Old Joe Clark parties'.

very best

Paul Castle
http://www.rosinators.com
http://snipurl.com/oldjoeclark

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Joe Clark Parties
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 12:56 PM

I would think part of the deal would be that since Old Joe is a song you can make up endless numbers of verses for, on the spot, calling it that kind of party would give the impression one could keep the dancing and so forth going on for hours and hours. A dinner party, for instance, is not at all the same thing as an Old Joe Clark party. So, perhaps it was a marketing approach as well.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Joe Clark Parties
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:10 PM

After looking at some more notes (none specifie), I wonder if Randolph's impressions apply to the Old Joe Clark parties on which you are searching for information. An informal dancing get-together, when a caller is not available, or geared to accomodate dancers unfamiliar with the rigors of pure figure dancing.

A suggestion- write to the dance societies and/or editors of Texas newspapers. Perhaps these:

NORTEX- North Texas Square and Round Dance Assn., email [e-mail]. Ask to be put in touch with an old timer. The www.nortex.org website has many links.

Lufkin Daily News, Editor- [e-mail]
Marshall News-Messenger, Editor- [e-mail]

These are in the eastern half, but you can easily find others through Google.