BS: the last time you killed someone

Subject: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST,not yet but maybe someday
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 11:02 PM

did you enjoy it..

was it fun..

would you do it again..

or do you still feel bad about it..

?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 11:03 PM

did you write a song about it..???????

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 11:19 PM

no
no
yes
no.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 11:45 PM

Some people just have to learn the hard way.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 11:48 PM

stupid idea for a thread...as in DUMB....as in tasteless....as in ridiculous....

what, me? Opinionated?? nawwwwww.......



(did I mention gauché?)

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 11:50 PM

The illustrious Gargoyle again?

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 12:19 AM

I'm surprised, and not sure exactly what my reaction is
to this question.

But is it not a valid subject for Folk artists to explore ?
considering the classic traditional and modern songs
documenting and making legendary
acts of murder and revenge.

and songs celebrating tales of battles, duels of honour,
and suchlike.


but as for contemporary mudcat murderers and manslaughterers;
and guys who killed for King/Flag and country ?

maybe some interesting and heartfelt stories,
and songs in the making?

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Teresa
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 12:43 AM

Hmmm, I do have a warped sense of the world, and it is a morbidly fascinating topic.

I'm going to treat it seriously. I think the fascination with violent topics in folk music is vicarious, for the most part. I also think that anyone who's ever killed doesn't want to talk openly on a web forum about it, most likely.

No, I've never killed anyone.

Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Teresa
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 12:50 AM

I should add that yes, traditional songs used to reflect real-life violence, albeit on a grander scale. Now, it seems mostly vicarious, because as far as I know, we don't do things like play ball with severed heads anymore.

teresa

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:04 AM

I wonder if Nick Berg would disagree with you.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 12:48 PM

I haven't, in this lifetime; but before that I am sure I have done my share of slaughtering and being slaughtered as well.

What is your point, then?


A

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:42 PM

What life for a soldier when soldiering's over?
What life for a fighter when fighting is done?
As you put the gun down, what dreams for the future?
What plans for the peacetime you helped bring around?
As home you return now all covered in glory
For helping the wrongs of this world to put right
When you try to sleep it's a different story
The battles you fought now you'll fight every night.

You come back a hero, with medals to prove it;
Your friends they will praise you, your family proud.
But no praise can cover the sounds of your nightmare
The shots that you fired in your ears will ring loud.
No reason or logic, your training took over;
It was you or him and the better man won.
But louder than gunshots the sound that will haunt you:
Your enemy calling in some foreign tongue.

You don't speak his language, but you can be certain
He called for his mother, a lover or wife.
You know you would do just the same if you were him,
If all you had left was one second of life.
Though letting him go then it would have been treason
Your dreams from his voice now will never be free.
When life you have taken, no matter the reason,
The man that you were you no longer can be.

Please don't get me wrong, for I'm not criticising.
You did what you had to, and you did it well.
His death I am mourning, but only in passing.
It's just that I feel that I'm sharing your hell.
To know that despite of all my good intentions,
If I was in your place I'd do just the same.
I would pull the trigger without any questions;
And knowing all that is what fills me with shame.

"What Life For A Soldier", George Papavgeris 2003

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: mack/misophist
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:56 PM

I've known people who killed in battle. Not a one, not the most blatant egotist would speak of it directly. It's probably not good for you.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 02:10 PM

Traditional songs about killing (in the English language anyway) are very rarely in the first person singular.

Offhand I can't think of a single one that is.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 02:11 PM

Apart from Captain Kidd and Sam Hall.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 02:19 PM

Woody's East Texas Red!

Art

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 02:19 PM

I meant in songs from the British Isles - that doesn't apply for America in the same way, where first person murder ballads appear to have been quite common. (And I'm also not thinking of the many broadsheet confessions ballads, where they didn't actually get into the oral tradition.)

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Midchuck
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 02:27 PM

I put him in a tiny boat
And cast him out to sea,
That he might sink, or he might swim,
But he'd never come back to me...

I suppose, strictly speaking, that doesn't count as killing, but that's stretching a point.

P.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 02:41 PM

I've never killed anybody, but I've murdered a few songs. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 02:58 PM

I try extremely hard to murder the same song in a multitude of diverse ways.
I am consistently inconsistent...That helps.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST,Peter woodruff
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 03:05 PM

Song as persona...ah yes I dream often of music with people ...I play with the music and the visions of people in dreams which I always murder when I wakeup.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Mooh
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 08:17 AM

"I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die." This always struck me as a pretty scary and telling line. Music is full of death, as is life.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 02:44 PM

"Music is full of death, as is life."

Too true. Just listen to "These Boots Are Made For Walkin'" and tell me ya don't wanna shoot yerself . . . or the dog.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Jeanie
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 02:47 PM

Here's a poem: Five Ways to Kill a Man by Edwin Brock. Just as telling, if not more so, now as when it was written "half-way through the 20th century" as mentioned in the last lines of the poem.

Did anyone else see the programme on UK BBC2 this Saturday about "Global Dimming" - a pollution-caused phenomenon which (quoting Radio Times blurb here): ...."may have already contributed to the deaths of hundreds of thousands through drought and famine."

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: tarheel
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 06:54 PM

well...do you mean,on purpose OR BY ACCIDENT!
i will tell you if you have a wreck,or any kind of accident that takes the life of another person,you will dream about it the rest of your life....
but,it is a stupid idea for a thread with some definition!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: LadyJean
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 12:24 AM

I bumped off an obnoxious member of the board of my former co op. I did it in a short story, so the police won't care. It was highly satisfactory, and I intend to kill the rest of those jerks too, in stories, of course. I'm having a wonderful time thinking up nasty ends for them.
Umberto Ecco says he wrote "The Name of the Rose" because he wanted to kill a monk. Murder by keyboard is extremely satisfactory.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST,Anon
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 02:58 AM

I did. I was driving. I have stopped driving.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: skipy
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 05:37 PM

I friend of mine has, in fact more than one(I think ), he used to attend Herga folk club, he always attends white horse folk festival, many of you know him - please don't give any clues! - he is not proud of it, it was his job (1982) he still, all these years on pays for it every day.
I have no details of what he did or what he saw, but I know it has taken his life over completely! We have few beers now and again but I don't ask & he dosen't say! But I know he is hurting, he was young then & gung ho! doing his job with his life & the lives of his mates on the line. For those of you who know him PLEASE, PLEASE do NOT say who he is!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 05:43 PM

In this day and age
when hearsay is evidence, dissent is disloyalty,
a lie is the truth and hypocrisy is piety,
we should not think about the other great nations that started lightening
fast pre-emptive wars.
Let us not think of Germany or Japan or the Confederacy.


Fundamentally wrong religious issues aside, pray for
our glorious fearless leader who found Jesus
and secured an appoint by God.

People and corporations pay tons of money to "hear" what they want to hear.
TV and think tanks will tell for a fee exactly what rich clients want you to hear.
For example; insurgencies can't last forever.
England invaded Ireland in the 1100's and the Irish insurgency
is still declining.
You don't think people in the middle east
can hold a grudge for 30 years - Do you?

We are only just a few murders away from peace.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff AKA (wdyat12)
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 06:13 PM

"These Boots were made for Walkin'?"...How 'bout that Helen Ready song? "I Am Woman" Enough to kill for...don't you think?
Just kidding,
Peter

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 11:43 AM

"Offhand I can't think of a single one that is. "

How about
...and I shot him with both barrels
Mush a ring...

Or is that in the Irish language and just Thin Lizzies version?;-)

And doesn't Mr Kipling, as well as making exeedingly good cakes, do some first person stuff? I have a vague recollection. Post later if I find it.

Never killed anyone but was gutted when I had to whack a nearly dead cat over the head with a spade:-( Killed plenty of people off in song no problem. Killed plenty of songs if it comes to that...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 08:36 AM

..was when they posted using my mudcat name.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:27 AM

Look, those who have killed in war don't talk about it. The stupidest, rudest, most ignorant question you can ask a veteran is "Did you kill anybody?" Since it's usually asked by young children it's forgive and if asked by a so-called adult it's ignored. If pressed by an adult it is responded to either with a cold stare and departure or a punch in nose.

Those who have killed outside of war don't like to talk about it either. Car accidents or other things take life every day.

Those who kill in criminal acts don't want to get caught, and so the truly successful ones don't talk about it. "Crime doesn't pay" is a silly statement, because good crooks of any persuasion aren't captured and "brought to justice" -- the really good crimes aren't ever detected and yes, it's possible to commit such.

I know several people who have killed others, with weapons ranging from their bare hands to B-52 strikes. They talk about it, yes -- among themselves or others with whom they feel sympathy. They would not talk about it on Mudcat. (And do not necessarily discount myself from the "several people" mentioned above.)

ZACK TILMAN

They say his dad was bone-deep mean;
his ma had ceased to care.
His sisters quit their home range
and they scattered everywhere,
Wherever neon glittered and booze and life was cheap.

So off Zack slipped one dark night
while the old man was asleep.
He hitched a ride to Idaho
where one sister was a whore.
"Naw, she's not here," the madam said.
"Been gone six months, or more."

An old mustanger coming through
from down Nevada way
Said he could use a maverick kid
his keep would be his pay.
They gathered up the mustang bands
and lived light off the land.

Till some buckaroos and ranchers
began to understand
They didn't own the beef they ate
nor was it store-bought
Nor did they check for brands real close
on cayuses they caught.

Now when the law came sniffin' 'round
the old man never bent.
They shot him down, as young Zack watched
just outside their tent.
"Be tough," the old man taught him,
"You gotta learn t' fight."

At "School for Boys" young Zack learned quick
the old man was dead right.
Zack never shed another tear.
He never took no guff.
He learned his bitter lessons well,
got lean and mean and tough.

Zack rode the rough strings here and there,
all up and down The West.
Old connoisseurs of cruelty
still claim "Zack was the best."
He stormed the weekend rodeos,
or so old hands relate.
A surgeon, with his locked-spur rowels,
on stock he'd operate.

The forties came, and young lack learned
some crafts not used before;
He honed his skills at killing
in the South Pacific War.
He'd finally found his place in life,
new talents were refined,
But then they up and told him
that an armistice was signed!

He scorned the peacetime army;
jeered their proffered "bars."
And only missed the battlegrounds,
grenades and BARs.
Now most men think that war's a curse,
a sojourn down in Hell.
But war to Zack was heaven-sent;
a job that he did well.

A hero – semicivilized –
Zack was, when he got back.
He went to GI Bill trade schools
and sorta found the track
Of normal life. He sparked and won
an old-time rancher's prize.

He beat her until finally
she came to realize
That though his love for her was strong
he'd prob'ly take her life.
She left him. But he always claimed
"the bitch" was still his wife.

He fought with neighbors constantly
and shot their stock for spite.
Some say he torched a neighbor's hay
when they were gone one night.
He picked a hundred fights in bars.
He'd push, then take offense

And beat a murder rap one time
by claiming self-defense.
Soon every one was terrorized.
He couldn't find a fight.
He finally found his enemy
and killed himself one night.

                                       –Wallace McRae

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:30 AM

This guy won a fight over the remote but his wife died.

Subject: RE: BS: the last time you killed someone
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 11:29 AM

I shot three PRS Inspectors and Eighteen Health and Safety Executive clerks. Not nearly enough!