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BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't.
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Subject: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Georgiansilver Date: 30 Jan 05 - 08:14 PM O.K so you really believe what you believe but you cannot disprove "Christianity"...You can re-route people if you wish....you can change the truth if you wish...but you cannot change the truth, however you try!. The truth is that "Jesus" lives today.....NOW...He is alive. If you follow Him you WILL find Eternal life....... You have the choice of where you go and what you do. As for those who dispute this....YOU are LOST sheep...You are lost beyond redemption unless you choose the right path. I don't care who disputes what I have said.......Jesus is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIGHT to your life as it says in the Bible....go for it! or pay the price. Some of you....dianavan included, have been misled by whatever means, by the devil....satan(without a capital letter...as he does not earn it) You are not beyond redemption as The Lord will accept all who choose the path He has planned for them, even you dianavan are accepted into His Kingdom, should you choose it without conditions. You feel that as long as you have your way then everything is alright...but NO it isn't!............God is in Control! and if you do not follow the path He set for you you are LOST! Tell me I am a freak!....Tell me I don't know what I am talking about! Tell me I am wrong!........But do you really believe that? Love and Compassion to all.... Mike |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST Date: 30 Jan 05 - 08:18 PM Nurse !!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST Date: 30 Jan 05 - 08:29 PM why bother ? its sufficient to just ignore it and avoid contact with fervent rabid bible bashers |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: akenaton Date: 30 Jan 05 - 08:29 PM GS....I dont think you a freak!, but your post fills me with despair. It depresses me when I see someone write in the way you do. It looks like a big load of empty life to me. In real time were on this planet for a fraction of a second, we should enjoy the wonder and the beauty,not constrict ourselves by meaningless dogma. I dont know what more to say ...Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: dianavan Date: 30 Jan 05 - 08:30 PM Hey Mike - What do want? I already told you I walked a path hand in hand with Jesus and that he was my friend. Do I really have to eat those little wafers and drink that grape juice? I have no desire to share the body and blood of Christ by eating him. Do you do that? Why? Maybe its one of those things that you have to have instilled in you from birth. Maybe I had a chance to think things through before it was pushed down my throat. Maybe I don't have to be just like you. I'll take my chances. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Rapparee Date: 30 Jan 05 - 08:41 PM Of course not. "Christianity" simply refers to the way of life that those who follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth are supposed to follow. ("It was in Antioch that they were first called Christians.") |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST,lost sheep Date: 30 Jan 05 - 08:44 PM Someone's been at the communion wine? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST Date: 30 Jan 05 - 08:44 PM yes I really do believe YOU are wrong ! there may be a 'God'; there may be an eternal life; there may well be a chosen path for each and all.. but one thing definitely for certain is that you today as an individual living breathing human being, YOU are definitely WRONG in the head and so out of control you could be potentially harmfull to other people.. unless of course this is all just a joke.. a wind up and irony amongst internet board sparring partners ???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: akenaton Date: 30 Jan 05 - 08:45 PM And another thing ...Where are all the bold Christians who posted to the Religious Left thread. GS is stating your case unequivocally, are you too embarrased to defend him.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Bobert Date: 30 Jan 05 - 08:48 PM Yo Mike, I'm glad that you have found Salvation and as a follower of Christ myself would offer one small bit of advice. Yellin' at folks ain't gonna convert anyone. Just be you. Live as you know Jesus would have you live. Let your words and deeds glorify Him and leave it at that. Testimonials are fine when preachin' to the choir but don't work too well outside the choir. Might of fact, they are often detrimental... Teach, don't preach. Yeah, I know I spend a lot of time on the soapbox but, inspite of some folks feelings that I preach too much, I'm stickin' with my story that I am trying to say the things that I think Jesus would say about the current state of affairs. But I love all my Christian brothers, fir sure... (Okay, as well as my non-Christian brothers Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST Date: 30 Jan 05 - 08:49 PM is it such a fragile boundary between absolute faith and insanity ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Doug Chadwick Date: 30 Jan 05 - 09:19 PM There's never a lion round when you need one! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Pogo Date: 30 Jan 05 - 09:22 PM Well you know....in many cultures they have 'holy fools' ;O) Uhm...if that's the way he feels...more power to him. Seems like it works for 'im *shrugs* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 30 Jan 05 - 09:26 PM Hey, Ake: Boldness has nothing to do with it. I am not Mike. Mike is doing what he feels is right to do. I won't criticize him for that. I am not trying to "save" anyone. I am trying to live my life, and not always doing the best job I could. I am not telling you, or anyone else what to do with theirs. I believe that you are doing your best to live your life in the way that you think is right. That's all we can do. I wish you well. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Nerd Date: 30 Jan 05 - 09:26 PM Um, I'm a Jew. Am I, like, going to Hell and stuff? Get real, GS... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Sorcha Date: 30 Jan 05 - 09:34 PM As a non Christian who as no desire to be converted and does not belive in prostelyzing, this whole thread bothers me a lot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Teresa Date: 30 Jan 05 - 09:36 PM In a way, I'm relieved that this isn't an endless discussion about proving and disproving the existence of God. To me it's like waiting for a cat to bark or a dog to meow. Mike, I respect you as a person, to the extent that I can through this forum. I believe you have true convictions. I am not a Christian myself, and I will never, ever tell others how they should believe. I appreciate what bobert has said and agree with him: "teach; don't preach." I've been there with various things, and it doesn't work to proselytize. The harder thing to do is to look for the depths in yours and others' souls or being, and to love all the things that are common in people. Isn't there a bible verse that goes: "Judge not, lest ye be judged."? (I don't know my bible verses well, but that one popped into my head. Teresa |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST Date: 30 Jan 05 - 09:38 PM is it just my concern that when devoutly religious individuals work themselves up into such an extreme fit of over-ecstatic 'hell and damnation' rightiousness as this, they are dangerously close to transforming their essential being into something quite evil ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Once Famous Date: 30 Jan 05 - 09:43 PM Georgiansilver, well as long as you asked: Yes, you are a freak, you don't know what you are talking about, and you are wrong. I really believe that. But you are a pretty good guy anyway and from what I can see, fairly harmless. Mazel Tov. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: dianavan Date: 30 Jan 05 - 10:05 PM Georgiansilver - I really don't know what I said to set you off that way. Calm down, please. I don't disprove Christianity. I know that when people believe in whatever it is the church fathers tell them to believe, it becomes true for them. I don't deny you your beliefs, please do not deny mine. I have said on previous threads that I have not been baptised. That was my parents choice. They did encourage me to study all religions and to visit churches of many denominations. I did just that. Religion doesn't scare me but you'd have to go a long way to convince me that God is male or that Jesus was the only son of God or that I have to partake of the blood and body of Christ. Come to think of it, I also do not believe that I was born a sinner or that I have anything to confess. I will also withold my tithes from any church that invests in war. I prefer to do my own good deeds. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Once Famous Date: 30 Jan 05 - 10:15 PM Male bashing of God doesn't surprise me from that ranting feminist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: dianavan Date: 30 Jan 05 - 11:16 PM What the hell is male bashing of God? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 30 Jan 05 - 11:19 PM The burden is not in providing DISproof... Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof... I've yet to see ANY evidence, extraordinary or otherwise to support the existence of any 'supreme being' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: dianavan Date: 30 Jan 05 - 11:21 PM I don't think God has a sexual organ. Why would it be needed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Nerd Date: 30 Jan 05 - 11:52 PM To f*ck everyone who isn't Christian? Or maybe to screw with georgiansilver... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Joe Offer Date: 31 Jan 05 - 12:24 AM
30-Jan-05 - 08:45 PM Thread Name: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. And another thing ...Where are all the bold Christians who posted to the Religious Left thread. GS is stating your case unequivocally, are you too embarrased to defend him.... Not all Christians feel it's appropriate to evangelize. Some do, and I can respect that. But it's not my approach. I've worked in may Catholic and other Christian social justice programs through the years - but I make sure I work only in the ones that don't preach. Mike is stating his case unequivocally, but it's not my approach to Christianity. Different strokes for different folks. Evangelical Christianity is very different from us progressives. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Little Hawk Date: 31 Jan 05 - 12:31 AM Oh my goodness... :-) Calm down, GS, that's my advice. Be happy in your Truth and let others find theirs in the way that best suits them. How do you know that the Spirit of Christ is not living within all great religions? How do you know that the Spirit of Christ was not incarnated in certain other individuals, such as Buddha or Krisna, to name two obvious candidates? You don't. I'm telling you that it is a distinct possibility. The Spirit of Christ may be an eternal conscious principle that incarnates wherever and whenever it is needed...and not just on this little blue planet, 3rd from the sun...and the man "Jesus" whom you are familiar with from the Bible may have been speaking AS that indwelling Spirit of Christ which is within ALL living beings when he said "I am the WAY...etc..." If you were born a Hindu you would have found the words of the Christ Spirit issuing from the mouth of Krishna, and you would have found those words in their holy book, the Baghavad Gita. In other words, the living WAY speaks from the mouth of a god-filled man and says "I am the WAY". That doesn't mean the WAY is limited only to that man. It doesn't mean that man is the WAY, it means the WAY is speaking through that man. Buddha may also have been spoken through by that WAY. Krishna may also have been spoken through by that WAY. I think you are confusing the man with the power that illuminated the man, that's what I think. The WAY has always been and always shall be. In China, it was called the great Tao (The Way). The mouths through which it speaks command attention, and their words often result in the writing of holy books, and the launching of a new religion or philosophy (like Taoism). That is what happened around Jesus of Nazareth. The new religion built on his words by his followers who survived him (physically) was one more reiteration of a very ancient spiritual message. And it WON'T be the last... God is Love. Love does not secure itself through scare tactics. There are almost certainly many living souls right now on other planets. They are not going to go to hell, because they haven't heard of the Bible or of Jesus. The principle that is the Christ ("the anointed one") no doubt lives inside them too, and inside every atom, but it will not manifest to them AS the man, Jesus. It will manifest as someone else. It will still be the same Spirit, regardless. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Amos Date: 31 Jan 05 - 12:37 AM Disproving another person's opinion is about as foolish an undertaking as inviting another to disprove one;s own. Opinions ain't facts and can't be facts under current orders of magnitude of ability -- the horse power isn't invested int hem by a long shot to make them that real -- they're opinions in the shallowest sense of the word. GS, why are you so desperate to wrassle others with your opinions? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Little Hawk Date: 31 Jan 05 - 12:41 AM He's genuinely afraid they'll be doomed if he doesn't convince them, that's why, Amos. It must be quite a burden, the weight of such an assumption. I get the shivers just thinking about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: hilda fish Date: 31 Jan 05 - 01:00 AM I often wish I could believe in all that Christianity stuff - it would make my life so much easier to have faith and trust in something outside ones own existence. In a way I'd never have to question or worry about anything. However I find, intellectually, that I just can't 'believe'. Once a very dear friend who was also into total conversion of others (he often called me a heathen) explained that his life had no meaning without his faith; in fact that the reason he took Jesus to his heart was because he was so desperate that the only other choice was suicide. That seemed pretty reasonable to me. Another dear friend is bound in the love of the Holy Trinity, father, son, and holy ghost. She lives her life with love, and I love her very much so that's also okay with me. I have Budhists, Wicca, Catholics, Taoists, Hindu's, Protestants, Communists, Anarchists, Åtheists, Ågnostics, Pagans, and total Cynics as friends and I respect all their beliefs. Don't affect me as I know who I am and how I live. I'm grounded and clear. My son, prior to his death, went to church with my foster son, his brother, who went to church to fight a terrible drug habit and bad life style. I had a great old time when they invited me to come along, singing Karoake hymns. I bawled the hymns out at the top of my voice. They never asked me again but for a little minute before my dear boy died, the faith that is involved in Çhristianity gave him some peace. So still I have no more faith in Jesus than I ever had, or ever will, but I am glad that people 'believe' in whatever it is they believe in because it probably makes them either better, or happier people. It upsets me when, through the faiths that people have, they say that I am less than them. I am not - if I can give respect and sensitivity, then I have a right to receive it as well. The Christian attitude that says that particularly Indigenous people are 'less than' attitude has also said that my people deserve death and that's a real problem for me. Fortunately there have been some stunning Christians as well as many other faiths in this world who love and respect, and are prepared to die for their fellow humans rights. So good luck to everyone and in the end, I'm sorry to say this, but who cares really? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: hilda fish Date: 31 Jan 05 - 01:01 AM In short I'm saying faith of any sort is a lovely old thing and if it gets you through the night then good luck - but faith can't be proved - and why should it be? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Little Hawk Date: 31 Jan 05 - 01:04 AM Indeed. Faith in friends and family is wonderful too. And faith in Life itself. Life is holy and beautiful. There's little point in trying to prove faith. One might as well try to prove Love... Better to just have it than prove it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Amos Date: 31 Jan 05 - 01:09 AM "The most ominous of all these trends is the ''millions of Christian fundamentalists,'' as Bill Moyers the journalist-philosopher recently remarked, who ''believe that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed - even hastened - as a sign of the coming apocalypse.'' America and the world do not deserve to be guided by such ignorance. Moyers reminds us this trend goes back to James Watt, President Reagan's first secretary of the Interior, who: ''Told the U.S. Congress that protecting natural resources was unimportant in light of the imminent return of Jesus Christ.'' In public testimony he said, ''after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back.'' These days, the belief resonates strongly, Moyers goes on, with ''nearly half the U.S. Congress before the recent election - 231 legislators in total - more since the election - [who] are backed by the religious right.'' " |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Peace Date: 31 Jan 05 - 01:12 AM "Beware of stupid people in groups." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Amos Date: 31 Jan 05 - 01:12 AM Odd... it seems so plain to me that faith that requires that you MUST gain agreement from others is not faith at all, but a shoddy cardboard imitation of the genuine spiritual article. When a clarity and simplicity that actually has divine sensibility to it gives way to obsessive proselytization, a serious short circuit has occurred. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: dianavan Date: 31 Jan 05 - 02:56 AM Doug Chadwick - You are quick and witty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Georgiansilver Date: 31 Jan 05 - 03:47 AM Thank you for all your replies. I have enjoyed reading them, Best wishes, Mike |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST,Paul Burke Date: 31 Jan 05 - 06:26 AM "O.K so you really believe what you believe but you cannot disprove "Christianity"" What do you mean by "Christianity"? Is a person who believes that Jesus existed but was not God a Christian? Is an atheist who follows as many of his social teachings as Christians do a Christian? Is a Roman Catholic/ Happy Clappy (insert your own variant out of 10000) a Christian for that matter? And as for 'disproving' it? What is there to disprove? You make historical assertions, it's up to you to support them with evidence. Can you disprove that the Duke of Wellington or Jack the Ripper was the Son of God? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Gervase Date: 31 Jan 05 - 06:59 AM 'Thanks for the replies, I have enjoyed reading them' Eh? But what was the point of the original post? Is it some form of Tourette's? Are you seeking endorsement from fellow Christians? Has someone recently challenged your 'faith' and made it necessary for you to make some sort of public statement? Are are you simply some benign happy-clappy experiencing som sort of rapture that you really felt you had to share? Whatever. I'm sure that Jesus - in between being in control of global warming, genocide and those pesky non-believers - will pause, smile and give you a nice gold star. Now get back to your crayons and draw us a nice picture of an angel, there's a good chap. As for being accepted into his 'kingdom' - if it's gibbering bores who post that sort of naive claptrap then I'll decline, ta very muchly. And anyway - I prefer republics. What's god's view on those? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Jim Tailor Date: 31 Jan 05 - 07:28 AM I don't think that the issue is so much whether or not one can "disprove" Christianity. I think that what seems to matter to most people is demonstrated by Clinton Hammond's astute observation -- Christianity cannot be empirically demonstrated. It doesn't mean Christianity, or God, is not an objective reality (string theory cannot be empirically demonstrated -- but doubt it at your scientific credibility's peril!). It just means that, at least right now, the supernatural elements upon which Christianity have much foundation (beyond philosophy) cannot be duplicated or demonstrated in a laboratory. They can be demonstrated in living -- but so can any philosophy. It has always been interesting to me that the foundational text from which Christianity draws its reason for existance is repleat with supernatural demonstration. "GILLIGANNNNNNNNN! Well, little buddy, look at the mess you've created now!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 31 Jan 05 - 07:55 AM While I give you the benefit of the doubt, Mike and accept that you meant well by this thread, I have serious problems with it. The whole question (or in your case, a challenge) of proving, or dissproving faith is an oxymoron. It is a specious, more destructive than helpful approach to anyone's belief. Intentional or not, it is insulting to my Muslims sons and my agnostic son. And to all my friends on here who do not believe in God. And there are many. It is wounding to people, not encouraging. It is even discouraging to me, and makes me question whether I should even mention my faith. I don't see my life as an example for anyone else, and I don't feel it is my responsibility to "Save" anyone else. My only responsibility is to live the most loving life that I can, be honest about my weaknesses, and give thanks for what I call my blessings. Others find that word discomforting, or too "loaded," and they will express it in a different way. For any Christian, the first call after loving God, is to love your neighbor as yourself. For me, that means encouraging and supporting others, praising them for their good works and respecting their beliefs. If I offend others in here, stating what I believe on occasion, it is not my intent and I am sorry for it. I do it, because my faith is part of who I am. If it is not part of who someone else is, I still respect and love them the best that I can. I also, by the way, find claims of being "saved," very troublesome. I occasionally meet up with a Christian who immediately asks me, "When were you saved?" First of all, the state of my soul is a private matter, that I wouldn't discuss with someone else. More importantly, I see some Christians who want to divide the world into the "Saved" and the "Not-Saved." No one knows another person's heart, or the reason for their actions, just as I don't know Mike's. There are people who do good deeds for selfish reasons, and people who do something that appears to be mean-spirited, with a good, if misguided heart. And some of the finest, most loving people I have known in my life are Atheists. Sad to say, maybe it's time to take a break from discussing Christianity for awhile. I hate to say that, because I know that there will continue to be more of the 100 Things I hate about Christians threads springing up. I just don't want to be a part of offending people. I wish you well, Mike. I believe that your heart is in the right place. I just can't walk beside you in this way. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST,Com Seangan Date: 31 Jan 05 - 09:11 AM I ran through all the posts - and now I am just running. Good people are good people - whether they have a religion or not. I never saw a religious discussion of this kind to end amicably. Maybe people would be better without organised religions - all claiming to be right and the others wrong. The person who wrote the original post seems to be an upset person. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST,Mr Red not being silly today Date: 31 Jan 05 - 09:30 AM reducto ad absurdum you begin with the opposite premise and by a series of logical arguements reach an absurd conclusion thus proving the original assumption was absurd. It only works on logic, religions are beliefs. Ergo - you can't prove Christianity. But if it works for you - don't let me spoil the party. I believe in human nature - but it would take too long to itemise good the bad and the ugly and just proving who they each are can be slow and painful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST,Mrr Date: 31 Jan 05 - 09:53 AM Luckily, the sensible don't try to prove the normal; it is the ridiculous claim that requires proof. I don't have to "disprove" Christianity, it is too silly to consider rationally. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Little Hawk Date: 31 Jan 05 - 10:10 AM Depends on how you define "Christianity", doesn't it? I must have heard at least a thousand definitions of it by now. :-) Jesus was not a Christian! (in my opinion) A Christian is a self-proclaimed member of a group that he has indentified in his own mind, and then said to himself, "I am one of these people." Since the many groups of Christians differ enormously from one another, and even often disagree violently with one another, it becomes quite confusing deciding what the word "Christian" means, frankly. It appears to me perhaps to mean something in denial of something else...such as, "I'm a Christian, meaning...I'm NOT a Muslim, etc..." I don't worry about it. I'm a human being. I don't have to call myself a Christian or anything else in order to follow a spiritual path and seek God. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Once Famous Date: 31 Jan 05 - 10:21 AM dinavan, last time I check the Lord's Prayer started "Our Father, etc." that and why God is referred to as "Him" just about everywhere except in the most feminist of worlds leads me to believe God does not wear a bra and panties. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST,Laurie Date: 31 Jan 05 - 10:26 AM So, there's a big man up in the sky who started everything, controls everything and will give you pleasure for ever after you die. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: GUEST,Mrr Date: 31 Jan 05 - 11:23 AM Martin Gibson - had you ever worn a bra, you would know that even a female goddess wouldn't! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Once Famous Date: 31 Jan 05 - 11:32 AM Oh, C'mon, that's BS. If you have a nice large set you know that you will be wearing a bra out of necessity to prevent getting smacked in the face when running or to prevent a shoeshine if you are over 40. goddesses included. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. From: Amos Date: 31 Jan 05 - 11:37 AM I can't "prove" Howdy Doody, either -- I believe there was a bond between Clarabelle and Chief Thunderthud, and that they were two people, not three. But there is no empirical proof to be had. Nor is there any disproof. The fictionality of the elements immediately places them beyond the pale of such exercises in logic. Now Doonesbury, on the other hand....that, I am sure of. A |
