How loud is that thing you play?

Subject: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 03:37 PM

As a Mondola player I am likely to be drowned out along side even the most sensitive of melodeons and trombones.

Apart from palying and listening, is their any way of ranking accoustic instruments on a scale of loudness so that better matches can be found?

Off to search for a 1000 watt stack.

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 03:48 PM

If you can play a mandola you can play a tenor banjo then you can hold your own in any acoustic session

Gerry

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 04:19 PM

My husband maintains that any pennywhistle is too loud and should be played somewhere else.

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Gypsy
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 04:54 PM

Just need to put a sock over the end! T'enny rate, my husband plays mandolin...even quieter than mandola. It helps alot when he stands, rather than sits..........remember, that sound waves are directional. Conversely, get a pig nose amp!

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 04:57 PM

Well, I can really get my trumpet wailing. Do you mean with or with a mute, and if with, what sort of mute?

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:24 PM

As a Piano Accordionist with an instrument that can drown out 4 guitars .... eh what?

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: MaineDog
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:37 PM

Not really loud enough but just wait till I get a bombarde--
MD

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 07:07 PM

My Mandolin is reasonably audible in most sessions - But I do have a couple of banjos AND whistles in emergency !!
u

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 07:09 PM

I'll drown you all out! I got a banjo!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 07:23 PM

hm its a tricky one all right.

one really awful gig story, concerns one of my favourite artists - the late Lonnie Donnegan. He was with Monty Sunshines jazz band in a school gym. All of the brass players had their instruments right up to the mikes so you couldn't hear Lonnie at all in that cavernous space.

The way I see it . you have two options - either you get a bug for you mandola and plug into an amp with a decent sized speaker - or they play a lot quieter. Actually - perhaps it would be as well to do both - get a monitor as well, and then they will be have to face up to the racket they are making and aim for a balanced sond. If you have a monitor, it will give them some idea of what they are inflicting on the audience.

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 08:43 PM

If you have the proper strings and good pick, you should be able to carry pretty well, depending on what you're playing--if you feel compelled, get a small amp, played a relatively low volume, but experiment with a variety of effects to get a clearer, more defined sound, rather than simply a louder sound--

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Gypsy
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 10:35 PM

YES! i far prefer people using dynamics over electronics. Grow weary of loud, louder, and loudest.....it's why we play trad stuff, and not rock!

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 11:00 PM

There is no such tining as 'loud' & 'louder' - only 'loudest'!!!

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 11:20 PM

Taking even a small PA into a session is a bit Naff ! Les - I suggest
you look out for a reasonable priced Tenor Banjo - Tuned same same Mandola and a LOT louder - Or even (as seen at a loacal session ) a
resonator tenor guitar !!

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Boab
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 03:01 AM

Ah---now here's an opportunity for a sound-system plug! While I am a lover of acoustic jam-sessions, in my experience, a good sound sytem can be used to balance the sound of every instrument being played [as long as it aint the town brass band----!] If someone is multi-instrumental they can find the distance from the mike which modifies the output of their own instruments---a whistle folowing guitar, for example. This at least balances the sound as far as a listening audience is concerned. Doesn't make any difference to the fiddler with the whistler scraichin' away in his left ear though!

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 03:31 AM

The loudest are the timpani - overriding an entire symphony orchestra.
The big drum isn't bad, too. You only have to accelerate a little bit, and the band follows the speed. Then you may see the man in front with the little stick rolling his eyes, then tear his hear, till he begins to wail and stops the band. I did it seldom but sometimes just for the fun of us drummers.

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 03:34 AM

You can get resonator mandolins, so perhaps a resonator mandola???

RtS

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Teresa
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 03:37 AM

I remember well a bluegrass jam. I was one of two guitar players, and I played mostly rhythm. I think there were five banjo players. Wow, I was playing some form of air guitar! :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 03:52 AM

I play both tenor banjo and mandolin, BOTH are very loud instruments,
bluegrass type mandolins can kill banjos.

eric

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: mooman
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 04:41 AM

I can play tenor banjo but will not as I am a gentleman...

With reasonable dynamics, like Terry I can get a decent volume out of both my manolin (a wee but feisty instrument) and my octave mandola (a big bodied low rumbler!). I prefer not to use amplification in a session.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 04:57 AM

Yes, mooman, there are things a gentleman won't do, but in case of emergency he has to. Let's create such a case in Niort - I long to hear you.

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: 8ch(pl)
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 04:57 AM

I play Mandolin and Tenor banjo. There is an electronic keyboard in our folkgroup. The gent who plays has a booming baritone voice. He turns the volume up and I have trouble hearing my mandolin. The other night I asked him to drop the volume about 3 times to no avail. He also insists on playing along with every piece. He has such a good time and I really like the guy, but if someone recited a poem he would be noodling on his keyboard, trying to figure out the key.

I wish it was acoustic only strings with harmonicas, button accordions, tin whistles etc. to augmentand colour the sound, without drownng it out. Keyboards are just too loud.

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: GUEST,T-boy
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 07:27 AM

This may sound stupid - but I have found that you can hear other peoples instruments better than your own, while they can hear yours more than theirs. So everybody ends up playing as loud as they can.

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: GUEST,Auggie
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 08:45 AM

Any tips on how to hear your own instrument better in a situation like T-Boy describes above?
I play a pretty boomy Martin D-41 but the 3 sopranos behind me often make it impossible to hear myself (hey, I'd rather hear them too if I were in the audience-they have voices to die for).
It's always really tempting to do as T-Boy says and start hammering your own axe, and I know I hate it when others do that, but I also hate not hearing my own playing. And no, moving or moniters aren't options in this setting.
Any ideas from you wiley Mudcat veterans?

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 08:52 AM

I rarely play as loudly as I could. I'm way too shy for that, and besides, if you make a mistake everyone knows it.

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 11:39 AM

Nothing improves your projection like playing regularly with people who play loudly. But playing in overpopulated sessions doesn't help much because you tend to just beat hell out of whatever you're playing in vain attempt at being heard. Playing in a band with three or four other people and practicing acoustically two or three times a week can do wonders. I stress acoustic practice because nobody's going to learn to play louder if all they have to do to increase their volume is turn a knob up a notch.

Also, there are various accessories on the market to help minimize volume damping due to body contact. Tone-gard is designed to hold a mandolin away from your body. It's the wrong size for a mandola, but something similar could be fabricated. And an armrest like this one might help as well.

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 11:43 AM

Excellent advice - as ever.

I came to the moandola from the tenor banjo and enoy playing it so much more. I keep trying the tenor but I cannot play it very well and it does have quite a diffrent response to the pick, I guess it demands a more vigorous pick action.

Apart from palying and listening, is their any way of ranking accoustic instruments on a scale of loudness so that better matches can be found?

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: M.Ted
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 11:44 AM

In a group situation, everyone should be listening to everyone else and adjusting their volume to fit in---the leader should direct and coordinate this in a positive way so that at any given time, everyone knows who is following who--if you're response is"We don't want a "leader" we are not serious musicians, we're just getting together for fun", I have two responses, first--it will be a lot more fun if you are not fighting to be heard" and second, if serious musicians need a director, then less serious ones, who know less about music, and less about how to get things to work out right, need a director even more--

Auggie--the singers shouldn't be at your back--you should either face them or be on one side of them slightly behind----

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: mooman
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 11:53 AM

I quite agree M.Ted but, in a typical (but not "true") "session" there will always be a couple of egocentrics, "local legends" or non-etiquette-trained bozos who insist on drowning everyone else out or outpacing them by a couple of dozen beats per bar. Rather than trying to compete I have tended to have gone in the other direction and rather enjoy the new-found "melodious delicacy" of playing in Bee-dubya-ell's suggested smaller groups of like minded individuals or even by myself.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 01:16 PM

Another angle on this is which combinations work well together at their normally played accoustic volumes?

Brass Monkey are brilliant but voices, guitar and mondolin need to be amped to be heard.

Brass can be great in dance bands with melodeons and so on.

I can hear mandola, whistles, concertinas, spoons. What other combinations down the quiet end would sound balanced?

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 02:50 PM

If you really wanted me to, I could play my trumpet really loud AND bang my bodhran with my foot, and I'm sure I'd be the loudest any day!!    :0)

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 08:08 PM

As per 't hear the damn thing against the others, but everybody else said I was playing very loudly, and it was carrying...


interesting typo - 'playing lordly'.... :-)

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Allan C.
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 03:41 PM

Refresh

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 03:43 PM

The repeated angle on this is which combinations work well together at their normally played accoustic volumes?

Brass Monkey are brilliant but voices, guitar and mondolin need to be amped to be heard.

Brass can be great in dance bands with melodeons and so on.

I can hear mandola, whistles, concertinas, spoons. What other combinations down the quiet end would sound balanced?

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Gypsy
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 10:30 PM

Eric the Red, would that be a resonator mando? Husband type get heartily sick and tired of his mando being drowned out by fiddles. As for pennywhistles, won't even go there.........

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 05:58 AM

No it's a Paul Shippey carved spruce top, although I don't play much bluegrass, like bluegrass players I use a heavy plectrum and often use chop chords which make mandolins sound quite percussive and LOUD.

eric

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: John Routledge
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 06:46 AM

Les - How about Accordian and Highland Pipes

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Grab
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 06:50 AM

Les, there's no need for a mandola to be drowned out by anyone in a regular session. Mine is at least as loud as a fiddle. The secret is fatter strings to get the volume. My cheapo mandola sounds best with the D'Addario 15-52 set, but YMMV.

Of course, trombones and other brass instruments are a law unto themselves, but they don't often turn up at folk clubs...

Mandolins will tend to get drowned out though, bcos they simply don't have enough wood vibrating to push the sound out. Although I tried a Paul Hathway mandolin last weekend which sounded like it could probably put up a good fight!

Graham.

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 08:09 AM

D whistles are not necessarily loud, but penetrating, especially in the upper octaves - that 3rd D & the few reachable notes above really are rather shrill. And they are often tuned a bit sharp to cut thru the sound...

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 11:27 AM

I also have a Paul Shippey carved top mandolin which really bangs out the volume, I can be heard (and hear myself) with almost any combinations of instruments...mind you I am really a frustrated punk thrash rocker!!!

       mandomad

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: mandomad
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 11:31 AM

Where did my cookie go?

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 12:00 PM

I have a Paul Hathway octave mandola and a Paul Shippey carved top mandolin - the finest combo you'll ever find - no need for any 1000 watt amp!!

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 05:29 AM

I've had my Paul Shippey for four years, they sound as good as any Gibson.

eric

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: el_punkoid_nouveau
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 09:04 AM

Well, many many years ago, I got sick and tired of folk club organisers who thought squeezeboxes of various sorts (which aren't really all that old in some cases) were wonderful traditional instruments, but plug my telecaster in a club - NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!, that I decided to have a bit of revenge.

It was pointed out in the Bedduth gather that there had been a workshop on playing your instrument quietly - at which point, I produced a French Horn, saying that you can't play them that quietly. Why do Symphony Orchestras have loads of violins, and only FOUR Horns? Or, to put it another way, with a good wall off which to bounce the sound behind me, I quite often don't need to mike it up when playing with an amplified band. There are other wind instruments with this sort of power - try the Oboe...

I also bought myself a resonator mando a couple of years back, which amazes everybody. It is significantly louder than any other unamplified mando!

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 04:01 AM

OK, I have bought a 5 watt Marshall stack and will take no prisoners!

Subject: RE: How loud is that thing you play?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 07:55 AM

And I seem to remember that there are only a few trombones in a Symphony Orchestra, and only one set of kettle drums...