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BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO
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Subject: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:37 PM Okay, folks, it's 6 Illinois police officers, a bunch of other people, it just happened, and it's on film. Check it out at: UFO filmed in Illinois and on the News tonight See it while you still can. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: GUEST,TIA Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:42 PM It is gone already !?!?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:42 PM 'Scuse me, I believe they have provided a visual animation of the object, as reported by the police officers. Their stories seem to all agree on the appearance of the object. I imagine the real thing was a whole lot more exciting to witness than this little film that ABC has worked up from what the police told them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:43 PM No, TIA, it's still there. You get the Rogers Yahoo page. You then will see 4 main stories at the top, where the video screen is. You open the UFO story. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: GUEST,TIA Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:45 PM I must be a dummy. I don't see a video screen, and none of the top stories say UFO ?!?! (I even did a "find on page" of UFO) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:46 PM What? Wait a minute... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Cluin Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:48 PM It wants me to log-in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:48 PM Click on "VIDEO: UFO Close Encounter" It's among 4 news stories at the top of the page, to the right of the little video screen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:49 PM Aww, shit! Maybe it only works for people who are on Rogers HiSpeed. (sigh) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: GUEST,TIA Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:50 PM Dang, ya had me all worked up there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:50 PM It's on the ABC News, if that's any help. "ABC News on Demand" Try a google search for ABC News, I guess... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Cluin Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:52 PM I logged in with my Yahoo Mail name & password but still can't see where the item is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:55 PM Okay. Tried Google. It's part of an investigative report for ABC News by Peter Jennings. It's a simulation film of what the police saw they say. I'm the one who got excited and thought it was a standalone news report, cos that's what it looked like, but it's part of a larger investigative show on UFO's. Here's the story: 7 days Archive ABC puts UFOs on its radar screen By Kathy Blumenstock The Washington Post February 22, 2005 Flying saucers and strange beings that have visited Earth aren't the typical topics reported by Peter Jennings, anchor of ABC's "World News Tonight." Jennings, whose new two-hour special (8 p.m. Thursday, WRTV ) tackles the subject of UFOs, admits he and his production team began the project with doubts and a dose of curiosity. "We have a lot of skeptics -- I am very skeptical -- but we seriously investigated something a lot of people are serious about," he said. "And when we come to the end, this is wonderfully interesting. "More than 80 million Americans believe intelligent beings from somewhere else have come here," he said. "Forty million believe they have seen UFOs, so this is of deep interest to people." Produced for ABC News by Jennings's production company, the program examines the UFO phenomenon from an early milestone: a 1947 sighting by a man named Kenneth Arnold. Segments include visits to the Center for UFO Studies outside Chicago to a radio talk show on "UFOlogy." That show's host, Art Bell, cites among his 18 million weekly listeners "the most informed UFOlogists, the best scientists and some of the craziest people you'll ever meet." Spanning the range of believers and skeptics, sightings and science, the show includes interviews "with people in so many traditional, trusted walks of life -- cops, pilots, detectives, scientists, historians," Jennings said. "All with their own views, but all who have taken this seriously." Some of those interviewed describe what they have seen in the sky, from mysterious lights to giant hovering triangular objects. In 1997, hundreds of people reported seeing a large craft move slowly over Phoenix. In 2000, police officers from five different departments spotted a strange object in St. Clair County, Ill. The police-radio relays describe the low-flying, brightly lit object being tracked. With no videotape of the sightings, Jennings' program uses sophisticated animation to illustrate each incident. Photographs were taken of the locations, duplicating weather conditions and time of day, then witnesses' descriptions were used to depict the event. "In every piece of animation, we talked to the eyewitnesses, built the animation according to what they said, then went back to show them," Jennings said. "And they'd respond, 'No, it was bigger,' or, 'The nose was redder.' So ultimately what we have is animation that accurately reflects what you hear the eyewitnesses describe." Executive producer Tom Yellin said the UFO field is "a risky thing to report since it doesn't go with the conventional wisdom that this stuff is kind of silly." Like Jennings, Yellin initially had reservations about devoting a program to UFOs. "I thought it was all a bunch of baloney. Even though it has public appeal, you don't want to do something that subjects you to ridicule just to get a rating." But Yellin discovered "a tremendous amount of information that deserves further examination. "The U.S. government and every government has a policy of knocking (UFO reports) down, and that is very different from covering it up," he said. "The field has been abandoned to kooks and amateurs, and we felt it was worth looking at more closely." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 23 Feb 05 - 09:56 PM I watched the recreation... wondered how they got such a good video for a moment.. :-) Unless someone has the UFO's itinerary.. If it happened in Illinois, it must be true. People in Illinois never exagerate or tell tall tales.. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Cluin Date: 23 Feb 05 - 10:07 PM Try here. Apparently it will be on ABC tomorrow night (Feb 24th) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Teresa Date: 23 Feb 05 - 10:14 PM Although I'm a skeptic, one of my lifelong dreams has been the discovery of extraterrestrial intelligence, and that is why I have always been interested in the sETI project. Maybe I'll take a peak at this program. :) Teresa |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Feb 05 - 10:15 PM Yeah, well, I was a skeptic too, until I saw some. That was way back in the late 60's. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: paddymac Date: 23 Feb 05 - 10:40 PM It has always seemed to me that the odds must be pretty thin the we (eathlings of all sorts) are the only form of sentient life in the universe. The bigger question ight be if "they" are so smart, why are they bothering to visit our rock? :>) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Feb 05 - 11:07 PM They are probably visiting every place they can go to. We do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 23 Feb 05 - 11:23 PM They want to steal our minerals and other wealth! We're Lucky Ol' George has Weapons of Mass Distraction! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Bill D Date: 23 Feb 05 - 11:59 PM well...an animated recreation of a report. That sure gets ME excited, allright...*grin*. Makes me wonder why they wait till the report. Just do 30-40 varied animations and let the public vote on which ones best resemble what they or their 2nd cousins hairdresser says they saw. I have seen pictures, videos, models, drawings...etc...some of which were really interesting...but so far none which made me go "whoa!!!" I really, really hope they catch one before I die....but I ain''t holding my breath, 'cause I don't look real good in blue. (I know, I know, LH...you saw a couple...damn, you shoulda called me!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: open mike Date: 24 Feb 05 - 03:44 AM for those who are not aware of what Teresa said// SETI is the Search For Extra Terrestrial Intelligence http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ and Art Bell's Radio Show now called Coast to Coast has interviewed many witnesses and believers over the years http://www.coasttocoastam.com/ it used to be called the aRT bELL sHOW HERE ARE SOME PHOTOS OF CIRCULAR OBJECTS IN THE SKY ON FEB 12--http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page835.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Feb 05 - 05:18 AM They are coming closer! It could mean evil! Rupture! Why have they killed two veteran UFO researchers last fall within the time of three weeks? First John E. Mack, distinguished Harvard professor, and three weeks later Betty Hill, multiple abductee. Natural death the doctor has said for Betty. Give me break, who can know that with certainty? With a woman of 85, for how long do you think a family doctor looks for unnatural death? And Mack? Run over in London by a drunk driver when crossing a street. Run over by a car? You have read that in many books and seen in many films haven't you and more often than not it was foul play. What have these two people found out that they had to be killed within such a short time? (the central word is 'recreation'; the film is a recreation and it is thought for recreation) Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: greg stephens Date: 24 Feb 05 - 06:58 AM Wow, they've actually got a simulated animation of a UFO? I've always been a bit cynical about this sort of thing, but now...this will change my whole approach. A recreation of what one might look like, huh? We're talking hard evidence here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: GUEST,TIA Date: 24 Feb 05 - 07:18 AM The real story is that the European Mars Surveyor has found an actual continetnal glacier on Mars. Ice. Real ice, not evidence of former ice. Ice=water. Water=life. Take it to the bank, there is/was life on Mars. I hope I live to see the day that the final proof positive of extraterrestrial life is found. It is definitely out there. Now, how intelligent....? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Rapparee Date: 24 Feb 05 - 09:22 AM I was never sure about WHY the Folks From Out There would visit the Folks Here, especially with all the other Planets Out There they could visit. Just seemed statistically unlikely and besides, they didn't stick around. But Now I Know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Amos Date: 24 Feb 05 - 09:32 AM Well, when you look at how we have done, with all the advantages necessary for carbpn-oxygen based life (water, temperature, etc) extraterrestrial life is not likely to be very intelligent. I think the recurring myth of highly advanced civilizations is wishful thinking driven by the ubiquitous evidence of our own thick-headedness individually and collectively. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: MudGuard Date: 24 Feb 05 - 09:37 AM SETI - the follow-up program which was started after the complete failure of the STI program ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Pied Piper Date: 24 Feb 05 - 11:08 AM Oh dear, I'm going to have to agree with Amos again. "Water=Life" not true Water=the possibility of life. The fact that life on earth got started relatively shortly after the temperature dropped sufficiently for liquid water is not evidence for the ubiquity of life in the Universe. We only have one case to deal with so extrapolation is meaningless. It took 3.8 Billion years (ish) to produce a species that is aware of it's place in the Universe, maybe only on planets were sufficient time has passed can intelligent life occur. Therefore only the ones that start early manage the trick before their Suns leave main sequence. All this is speculation until we have some REAL way of assessing the probability of intelligent life else ware. The discovery of life or past life on Mars (if it's detected) will clearly have a big impact on these arguments but we'll have to wait until the evidence arrives one way or the other. Here endeth the first lessen. PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Bill D Date: 24 Feb 05 - 11:47 AM oh, I believe there is life 'out there' somewhere....since there are 64,734,934,851,122 galaxies out there.....wait...I missed 2 in Taurus...64,734,934,851,124 galaxies, with an average 129.4 billion stars in each, I bet the odds favor someplace having it's version of Mudcat, wondering if WE exist. But I also know how far it is between those stars and galaxies, and the odds of us being found, IF anyone could do the travel bit. now UFOs can be VERY real, without positing Space Aliens....out at Groom Lake (Area 51), they have lots of ideas they don't share with you & me...who knows what might be buzzing about? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Cluin Date: 24 Feb 05 - 12:36 PM There was a very interesting article in Analog last month concerning the possibility/probability of advanced life existing elsewhere in the universe. Physicists, astrophysicists, and biologists have been applying the latest discoveries and theories to the problem and have been whittling down the numbers drastically. For all the things that have to go right, there are a million things to go wrong. We may well be alone out here, folks. And we'll never be out of the woods. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Feb 05 - 12:41 PM Heh! Heh! Nice to see the usual hearties weighing in here, comforting themselves with their already-established notions of reality. Good thing I got a chance to correct MYSELF before you chaps had the glee of doing it for me... Bill, if I had known how to reach you back in the late 60's when I saw the whatever-it-was, I WOULD have called you. Be assured. But I was in New York State at the time, and I suspect you were not. Why not watch the show tonight on ABC? You might find out something interesting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Liz the Squeak Date: 24 Feb 05 - 12:46 PM Rap - it's because so far, this is the only planet with chocolate! I'm a hopeful sceptic.... but I can't help thinking of the final words of the Monty Python song from 'Meaning of Life' So remember when you're feeling kind of small and insecure, How incredibly amazing is your birth; And pray that there's intelligent life, somewhere out in space, Cos there's bugger all down here on Earth! LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Cluin Date: 24 Feb 05 - 12:53 PM We've all seen things we couldn't explain. About 5 years ago, a buddy and I were playing Ottawa & Kingston (Ont.) and were heading north and home from the latter town. We'd gotten a bit of a late start and ran into some bad weather in the Muskoka area which slowed us down, so it was well after dusk before we raised Sudbury. It was around 11 pm or so, heading west on 17 between the Sud and Blind River (ha!), when I saw a bright streak of light rip across the sky to the south, disappear below the tree line, followed by a bright flash on the horizon, out over Lake Huron. My buddy and I looked quickly at each other: "Holy f__k! Did you see that?" We fully expected to hear on the news when we got home that a plane or meteorite had crashed into the lake that night, but never heard another thing about it. We both never forgot it though. Not the first or last time I've seen interesting things along that lonely, and otherwise boring stretch of road. The only more eerie stretch of highway I've been on is the road north to Timmins, especially in the dead of winter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Feb 05 - 12:55 PM BTW, Little Hawk, have you already forgotten your resolution from last June or have you changed your mind since then? AFO = Alien Flying Object was it, not UFO, at least for those who have not yet already-established notion(s) of reality Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Feb 05 - 01:00 PM I don't really care, Wolfgang. As I am not on trial in a criminal court here, I see no reason why I should fret over every single exact word I have said on the subject in the past. :-) Every day is a new day, Wolfgang, complete with new viewpoints and perceptions, and new ways of expressing one's ideas. AFO, UFO, QFO, whatever...use whatever you like, and I'll do the same. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Cluin Date: 24 Feb 05 - 01:05 PM Don't forget the UPI. Unidentified Party Injury. Those bruises, scrapes and contusions you wake up with in the morning (or afternoon) that you don't remember incurring the night before. Or maybe you've been abducted by ETs? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Donuel Date: 24 Feb 05 - 01:07 PM Life is stranger than fiction. I witnessed enormous triangular craft, disks and seemily intelligent plasma spheres yet my friend Allen Hyneck NEVER got to see any UFOs with his own eyes. Having had a minor career in the field I have also seen the predjudice, derision and actual physical attacks against people who's only crime was seeing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 24 Feb 05 - 01:24 PM Mmmmmmm! Only in the US could this happen! There's more chance of finding those WMDs in Iraq (and there's no chance at all of that). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 24 Feb 05 - 01:26 PM Peter Jennings was on The Daily Show last night, and said he went into this research a sceptic, and came out a sceptic... Until new evidence (O.k... ANY evidence) is discovered, I will continue to believe that we are NOT being 'visited' by 'little green men from beyond the moon' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 24 Feb 05 - 02:59 PM Cluin, in all his awesome and infinite wisdom, said: We've all seen things we couldn't explain. And that, my friends, is a fact! For instance, I've often seen my Beautiful Wife! Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: GUEST,TIA Date: 24 Feb 05 - 03:01 PM Ahhh, but in our (albeit limited, human, largely earthbound) experience, everywhere there is water there is life. Why should another planet with conditions conducive to liquid water be any different? I'm betting it'll be microbes incapable of piloting a spacecraft across the vast interplanetary distance that must be traversed to visit Illinois. BTW what will Creationists or ID proponents say about extraterrestrial life? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Feb 05 - 03:08 PM Thanks for the response, Little Hawk, and for this thread. You sometimes can't remember exactly what you have said half a year ago, you sometimes can't perceive exactly what is in front of your eyes (why else would you have made that mistake in starting this thread. And in that 'you' I include everybody here. This thread is a beautiful demonstration that both perception and memory are fallible. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Feb 05 - 03:18 PM That is quite correct, Wolfgang. :-) I'm thinking I should get Joe Offer to change the thread title, in fact, to something a little more accurate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: M.Ted Date: 24 Feb 05 - 05:19 PM All I know is, Everything you know is Wrong!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Bill D Date: 24 Feb 05 - 06:48 PM Cluin..50 years ago, I had the same experience you did...I was out collecting on my paper route, when.. Whoooommmmmmmmmm....boom! BRIGHT light and flash.. The papers were full of it next day...."Bolide" meteorite, zipping over Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, heading for N. Mexico...Dr. Lincoln Lapaz, a native of Wichita was interviewed about it, and tried to find pieces.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Chief Chaos Date: 24 Feb 05 - 08:34 PM Well, If you were looking for extraterrestrials I'd welcome you to DC. No-one as stupid as the current administration could be from the human race! I mean doesn't he look like something that came from Uranus? ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Bill D Date: 24 Feb 05 - 10:40 PM speaking of our Great Leader: UFO..Un-initiated Fondling Object |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 24 Feb 05 - 11:01 PM After his nefarious "fall from the gracious" networks.
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Bobert Date: 24 Feb 05 - 11:02 PM TRUE STORY, Okay, fir those of you who have heard Bobert's UFO Story then just scroll past it but.... .... it was like May of 1971 and I was teachin' school an' there was this purdy gal, Lisa Hadley, the school had hired as a teacher's assistant and so she was assisting me with, ahhhh, my harmones out in a park in Langley, Va. We had just parked my old 1960 VW van and we were kinda messin' round on a blanket not too far from the parking lot when.... .... we both kinda looked toward the Potomac River just a 1/4 mile from where we were and then... ... THERE IT WAS!!!!!! Yep, oh I hate this part, it was a flyin' saucer. We both saw it clearly for almost 20 seconds before the surrounding trees blocked our vision. But we saw it... And clearly... I mean, CLEARLY... Now I ain't gonna say it came from outer space 'cause I don't know that. But I know what I saw and if there are any doubters here in Mudville, I am perfectly willing to submit to poligraphs and hypnosis, at yer expense of course, to prove it. Now, just a sidebar... A couple days later I went to visit Lisa Hadley and we talked a little about it. Her father worked for the CIA there in Langley and she told me that after telling her dad about what we had seen that her dad told her she couldn't see me again. That was the last time I saw Lisa Hadley... But this is a true story. Ir was a flying saucer. No doubt. Bobert (with bag over his head) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: number 6 Date: 25 Feb 05 - 12:17 AM LH .... everybody some 'something' way back in the 60's ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Feb 05 - 12:41 AM Number 6...I figure that was a joke...but if it wasn't...although I loved folk music back then, I must nevertheless inform you that I did not do any drugs in the 60's nor was I a drinker. I was not high when I saw the UFOs. I was never high, period, in the 60's. I do not experience hallucinations. Therefore, the fact that everyone "saw" things in the 60's, as you say, has no bearing whatsoever on my experience. I have also met some professional pilots (both civilian and military) since who have also seen what they believe could only have been alien piloted vehicles. None of them were high on drugs at the time either...they were flying their aircraft at the time, and doing their job. People generally believe (or disbelieve) in various things for one of the following reasons: 1. actual experience 2. general hearsay (very common) 3. because they feel like it for some reason...mainly that it makes them feel the World is the way they already think it must be...and that feels "safe" to them. Accordingly, a conventional Christian, for example, believes that the whole Bible is the word of God (which I seriously doubt); an average American believes that his country stands for liberty and freedom (which it doesn't...it stand for money); an average 5-year-old believes in Santa Claus (sigh...). In my case, it was actual experience which caused me to believe in what could only have been alien craft of some kind...or secret military vehicles made by human beings. I did not believe in them prior to having the actual experience. Same as Bobert. Given what I saw, I doubt that it was secret Earth-origin military vehicles. I don't believe human beings are presently capable of such technology. It seems highly unlikely. Therefore, I draw the only other likely conclusion...that what I saw was piloted by alien visitors from outside our civilization...and probably from outside this planet. Either that or it was some sort of spiritual beings or ghosts...and it sure didn't look like that to me. It looked like physical vehicles. Which would you find more palatable? UFO's or ghosts? Or would you just prefer to think you already know everything there is to know...by default, and quite regardless of any real experience? If so, you have a lot of company. The World is full of people like that, comfortable in their preconceived assumptions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Peace Date: 25 Feb 05 - 12:47 AM I have never given a care to what people tell me I see or don't see. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Feb 05 - 01:01 AM Nor should you. Their opinions are about as important as the opinion of the dog that's barking next door over the last noise he heard from five miles away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Amos Date: 25 Feb 05 - 01:01 AM Just saw the special on ABC. Bobert, whatever anyone else says, you ain't alone, man. There are thousands of people with similar tales. Don't ask me what to think about 'em though. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Feb 05 - 01:08 AM There's no reason why anyone should have any strong opinion on UFO's if they haven't actually seen one... Now think about that statement carefully. It reflects mainly on the opinionated skeptic...whose only basis for belief is an established prejudice and the conceit that he already KNOWS all there is to know about that particular matter. He doesn't. Matter of fact, if he hasn't seen one, he knows nothing about that particular matter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Amos Date: 25 Feb 05 - 01:16 AM I want to find a long-since-abandoned scout vessel abandoned in some old mine somewhere. That's what would handle the "no physical evidence" crowd in a fell swoop. Once you figger out how to open the palm-print locks on the hatch covers and operate those instant-turn control panels on the bridge, you can scare the beeejaysus out of the bushites in Washington and wake the world up to more important things in a few minutes. Yeehaww, podnuh!! :D Sweeeoooooooshhhhhh!!!!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Feb 05 - 01:23 AM Such things almost certainly have been found decades ago...as far back as the 50's. When they were found, they were pounced upon by secret service and military intelligence people, spirited away to some high security area, and not seen again. People were paid, or intimidated to shut up...or they were killed. It's that simple. That is what would happen to you, Amos, were you to find something verifiable and then attempt to publicize it. I kid you not. This is serious business. The $ySStem wants "business as usual" and a public that does what it's told to do and watches the Simpsons and plays Nintendo games and follows orders. Drones, in other words. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: number 6 Date: 25 Feb 05 - 09:02 AM I'm a skeptic when it comest to UFO's. What I do beleive in is the power of the human mind. What has been created by humans since the beginning of time is extraordinary. Take a look around, it is astounding what humans have acheived albiet good or bad, more so than any uncertain visit from beyond the heavens. It all is sourced from the human imagination. LH ... it was a joke referring to what we saw back in the 60's. But I must say I did see Led Zepplin's concert at the Masonic Hall back in Feb. 1969. This was before the realease oftheir first album. That concert was the equivalent of witnessing/experiencing a close encounter of the first kind. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Donuel Date: 25 Feb 05 - 03:12 PM After studying The Space Act,http://www.hq.nasa.gov/ogc/spaceact.html#ACCESS in which the following is stated; Section 303. (a) Information obtained or developed by the Administrator in the performance of his functions under this Act shall be made available for public inspection; except (A) information authorized or required by Federal statute to be withheld, (B) information classified to protect the national security; and (C) information described in subsection (b): Provided, That nothing in this Act shall authorize the withholding of information by the Administrator from the duly authorized committees of the Congress. I found section B of the most interest, and feel needs to be studied.Information classified to protect the national security of the United States. For many years' we've all heard the stories involving NASA and Alien information being hidden or classified top secret. My hypothesis is that NASA is obligated to classify information which would demonstrate the technological advancement of alien intelligence. Even if NASA did discover intelligent alien life – due to Section 303 of the space act, they cannot release that information, or certain elements of such evidence. I don't believe microbial life is top secret. However, I do believe current intelligent life exhibiting their technological advancement is. Can we prove it? I mean, if it's covered up, then how in the hell can we prove it? Not every top-secret project has remained so forever. Furthermore, there are leaks and mistakes. Not to mention witnesses who break the law and tell us after their work at NASA or in the military. So, our job would be to find former workers from NASA/DOD who can help prove that section 303 would, and IS applied to information that would illustrate alien intelligence technology. I came across the testimony of a former NASA scientist. Dr. Norman Bergrun wrote the book, "The Ring-Makers of Saturn". Dr. Bergrun claims that NASA's voyager probe, took photographs of an elliptical (cigar-shaped) craft. The object was huge, almost as large as Earth. He said that large portals or apertures could actually be seen in the side of this craft. When he was asked why NASA and other governmental agencies haven't released this information, Dr. Bergrun said that the 1958 Space Act states that the public will be informed regarding results of space photos and data only if it is determined that such data are not a threat and that a craft this huge would have been considered a threat and deemed to have great military significance. What's of interest here is not the claim about the object, but the fact that he stipulates if such an object DID EXIST, THEN NASA WOULD HAVE TO HIDE IT because of the space act. Would he not be in a position to know such a thing? Section 303: Information classified to protect the national security, is to be withheld. Karl Wolfe - "We walked over to one side of the lab and he said, by the way, we've discovered a base on the backside of the moon. I said whose? What do you mean whose? He said, yes, we've discovered a base on the backside of the moon. And at that point I became frightened and I was a little terrified, thinking to myself that if anybody walks in the room now, I know we're in jeopardy, we're in trouble, because he shouldn't be giving me this information. I was fascinated by it, but I also knew that he was overstepping a boundary that he shouldn't. Then he pulled out one of these mosaics and showed this base on the moon, which had geometric shapes- there were towers, there were spherical buildings, there were very tall towers and things that looked somewhat like radar dishes but they were large structures… This fellow and I were the same rank; I think he was very distressed. He had the same pallor and demeanor as the scientists outside the room; they were just as concerned as he was. And he needed to discuss it with somebody. Some of the structures are half a mile in size. So they're huge structures. And they're all different sized structures in different photographs. Some of the shapes, as I said, were – some of the buildings were very tall, thin structures. I don't know how tall they were but they must be very tall. They were angular shots with shadows. There were spherical and domed buildings that were very large. They stood out very clearly, they were large objects. It's interesting because I tried to relate them in my own mind to structures here on Earth, and they don't compare to anything that you see here in scale and structure". Now, he claims this was done while working for the NSA. I have since petitioned the NSA with a FOIA requesting any images or information regarding any classified Lunar Orbiter images. I have not heard anything as of yet, but really don't expect to hear much because I think the images are available, but very obscure and well hidden, or just never commented on. Or dis-informed about them. Donna Hare had a secret clearance while working for NASA contractor, Philco Ford. She testifies that she was shown a photo with a distinct UFO. Her colleague explained that it was his job to airbrush such evidence of UFOs out of photographs before they were released to the public. This begins to build the case, and starts to prove that section 303 of the space act does cover UFO's or "Alien intelligence". What I find most interesting is the erasing of "UFO'S" from photographs. If they were not alien or secret crafts (of our own) – then there'd be no reason to hide them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Bill D Date: 25 Feb 05 - 03:59 PM ...and I suppose the fact that the 'general public' doesn't get access or information about these sightings, photos, encounters..etc., is proof that they do such a good job of hiding and covering up, hmmm? I really find it hard to believe that for 60 years, 'they' have managed to kill, bribe, shush and intimidate everyone who had real evidence. Can you say "self-fulfilling hypothesis"? You know...if a saucer landed on my lawn tomorrow, I'd still do a LOT of investigation before I'd theorize about it's origins....but I guess I just prefer remaining sceptical to believing way too much, too soon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Feb 05 - 05:53 PM All you're indicating, Bill, is that you have an emotional predisposition to continue believing as you have been accustomed to believing. That emotional predisposition is self-sustaining. It does not maintain itself because of, but in spite of available evidence. The evidence is out there...on a considerable basis, in hundreds of books and hundreds of thousands of testimonials from people all over the World, but why would you be inclined to seek it out, given your emotional predisposition. You would not be so inclined. You could dismiss it entirely from your mind, did I not launch the occasional thread to remind you about it. Perfectly understandable, Bill. :-) Just like a person in 1756 not believing in the possibility of electrical motors or artificial hearts. Anyway, it doesn't matter a rat's ass whether or not you are interested in UFO's. It won't actually make any difference, believe me. If they ARE out there, it won't stop them from being so, will it? And if not, it won't matter either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Bill D Date: 25 Feb 05 - 07:35 PM "The evidence is out there...on a considerable basis..." yep....we're just not sure what it's evidence OF..*grin*..we know there are fuzzy photos and confident people, we just have no close-ups or alien bodies to dissect...(yes, I know about THOSE) and it's not at all " Just like a person in 1756 not believing in the possibility of electrical motors " no one claimed to have an electrical motor in 1756...but they had experiments and data and theories, all of which led to electrical motors...and when someone DID claim to have one, he put it on a table and demonstrated it As for my "emotional predisposition to continue believing as (I) have been accustomed to believing."...yup! I believe in 'evidence' that can be corroborated, examined and measured and in experiences that can be shared, reproduced and which can not be explained in other ways. If you want to call 'formal' skepticism emotional, rather than just plain rational, well....I guess you have an "emotional predisposition" to do so...*grin* and please do not mistake me...I care a LOT about UFOs! I am a Sci-Fi fan of many years standing, and am seriously grumped that none of these sightings and stories can be nailed down..I WANT them to be true too much to allow myself to give in to 'sort of' data. It all warrents much research, watching, analysis and application of every bit of new technology we can focus on it. I hope I don't find out that the aliens think it's a big practical joke that we run in circles and still can't catch them....I might refuse to shake their tentacles when they finally try to make friends! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 25 Feb 05 - 09:23 PM Donuel, Did you know Allen Hyneck in Evanston, Illinois? Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: hesperis Date: 25 Feb 05 - 10:57 PM Hmm. I posted... but it's gone. Weird. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Feb 05 - 11:33 PM I believe in corroborative evidence just as much as you do, Bill, when it's available. I am not objecting to the fact that you don't necessarily believe in alien visitors, when you have no particular personal reason to. I am objecting to the fact that you apparently totally disbelieve in them on principle...and your disbelief is based on no corroborative evidence whatsoever... That's just plain stupid, in my opinion. It's a petrified state of mind. Do you understand the difference I am alluding to? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: number 6 Date: 26 Feb 05 - 12:06 AM corroborative - to support with evidence or authority : make more certain My skeptism of 'alien visitors' is based on the lack of corroborative eividence. My skeptism cannot be questioned on the fact that there is no corrorative evidence of there not being any alien visitors. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:01 AM I don't object to skepticism. I was skeptical about UFO's till I saw one (although I really had not thought about them much at all up to that point). I object to people having a completely closed mind toward the mere possibility of something they didn't think of being real... I object to an attitude of automatic dismissal and contempt toward someone else's experience or someone else's idea, merely because it is unfamiliar or unconventional. And I am suggesting that that attitude has more to do with emotional security and ego issues than it does with evidence...pro or con. There is a friggin' MOUNTAIN of evidence out there by now about UFO sightings...but only those who already have seen one seem to CARE!!! I don't think that's unusual. People are like dogs. They prefer not to be disturbed when their minds are resting, and their minds are resting about 99% of the time as long as their stomachs are full, going by what I see around me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: number 6 Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:37 AM I don't think you can categorize people as sleeping dogs LH. As I mentioned up in a previous thread. Take a look around you. Almost everything you will see has been created by the human mind. The tool of your communication here at the mudcat is a result of the human mind. Pretty powerful, certainly not the result of sleeping dogs. The human imagination should certainly not be over looked. It the imagination of humans that have manifested your surrounding, what you hear, what you see and what you conceive. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 26 Feb 05 - 12:01 PM Yes, well, I get a little irritated and sarcastic when it comes to discussing people's attitudes to this particular subject, as you may have noticed. I've seen sheer smug ignorance and bloody-minded conventional stubbornness masquerading as "common sense" so many times in this life by now that I am really seriously fed up with it. It's not based on knowledge of anything. It's based on fear of change, and a desire to be "right" and make others wrong. The most likely thing to happen to anyone who sees a "UFO" and attempts to tell people in general about it is ridicule. That ridicule has stemmed directly from official government policies which were started up in the mid-50's in the USA, following some very dramatic incidents. Ridicule was thought to be the most effective way of shutting people up and destroying their credibility. It is directly from that policy that ridiculous cliches like "little green men" have come. I know of no incident where little green men have been seen. Not one. I know of some where grey creatures have been seen, and humanoids of other descriptions (some quite similar to us Earthlings), but no little green men. Yet, a standard rhetorical device of the conventional mind that wants to dump on and ridicule anyone who takes UFO's seriously is "little green men". It's so predictable. Just wait for some asshole to say it, his lip curled with a sneer... I sneer right back at him, because he is being an asshole, and his comment is based on FEAR. Fear and ignorance, and a desire to have everything under his control forever...so that the World as he thinks it is will never, ever change, and will remain totally safe and predictable...and he will always be "right". Many women make the tragic mistake of marrying such a "right man", and spend the rest of their lives wondering where they went wrong. (I'm a man, but I notice that it is almost always men who are the most vociferous promoters of the kind of ignorant attitude I have described above. They are the masters of obstinate negativism toward anything they didn't think of themselves, because if they didn't think of it, they don't own it! The USA, at present, is a very male-dominated society, as evidenced in its choice of male political leaders, its violent entertainment, its capital punishment, and its psychotically aggressive foreign policies. Such a society prides itself on its inflexibility and secrecy and domination of others. Its heroes are asshole aggressive fantasy characters like John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Charles Bronson, Arnold Schwarzenneger and such...psychotics with a way-out-of-control hostility problem. Such hostility is a byproduct of extreme fear.) And it is extreme fear and arrogance which causes people to automatically ridicule others for having the nerve to report something new and unusual and not back off about it. In former times, people who did stuff like that got burned by the Inquisition as "witches" or "heretics". Remember? Under Mao, they got a bullet in the back of the head. Be proud of yourselves, assholes! You have a lot of company among the great murderers of history. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: number 6 Date: 26 Feb 05 - 12:39 PM "under Mao, they got a bullet in the back of the head" ... then they sent the bill for the cost of the bullet to executed victems family. Well LH ... some good points presented here, and I undestand your frustration and anger. But we should not forget Maggie Thatcher. I wonder what her and her regime would think about 'little green' visitors from outer space. Don't try attaching a gender to this argument. Have you ever thought that maybe the powerful governments of our world might be using a 'fear factor' such as Area 51 to somehow control their societies. Slightly off topic, but I feel men and women are both responsible for the closed mindness and violent tendancies in our society. Men and women both cheering outside the execution chambers, men and women cheering on their youth, marching them to war. Now, back to aliens from outer space. I mentioned the power of the human mind. Do you not think it is the human, reaching within and outward of their boundaries, reaching for some spiritual meaning, beyond the physical of their being. Their own minds deriving answers from somehwere. Their answers bing remedied by some some vision within appearing as a supernatural phenomon such as aliens beyond their own world? sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Bill D Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:04 PM "you apparently totally disbelieve in them on principle.." all my postings, and THAT'S what you get? Lordy! I hereby state categorically that I do NOT categorically DISbelieve in UFOs, & aliens, . I am a sceptic. All that means is that I reserve judgement, and tend towards doubt when people report experiences that are not independently verifiable. I have NO DOUBT that you had this experience/sighting, as did numerous others have similar experiences....I just refuse to draw any conclusions about them.....that means ANY conclusions! I do not assume you were hallucinating, confused, lying or mis-remembering what you saw. Nor do I assume you were not! You...and many others who have had intense experiences, have drawn some pretty clear conclusions about them. You STATE that the evidence which YOU have leads you to presume that these things are 'probably' artifacts of some other, non-earthly civilization. Based on my understanding of how non-earthly civilizations might GET here, I find that hard to swallow...I do not say it's impossible, I just doubt...much like René Descartes presumed to do about religious matters. Doubt is a formal term in these matters. It is an attempt to suspend final judgement until you can demonstrate in replicable or mathematical terms why it might be true. Do YOU "understand the difference *I* am alluding to?" Your The moment the first alien ship lands where I and others can ALL see it, I will breathe one sigh of relief...then go ask them, "and WHY did you play these cat-and mouse games with us for 60/100/1000/10,000 years????" If it turns out it IS our government that is just testing military gadgets, then I will REALLY yell & scream about bad judgement. If neither of these things happen in my lifetime, I will sit....and wait...and watch...and take it all with a grain of salt....and make my reserved comments about it all. Little Hawk...I trust your honesty and integrity,even as I wonder about certain of your conclusions.. and I am very sad that you find my nitpicking to be " just plain stupid, in my opinion. It's a petrified state of mind." It has always been my goal to at least be respected by those I don't see eye-to-eye with...maybe I'll figger out how to say it better, and not bug you so much......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Bill D Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:20 PM have to make one correction...I DO assume that you were not lying about your experience. That didn't read right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Amos Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:26 PM I think there is no question that UFO's are "real" but there is lots of evidence that they are not "objective". The gradient between "real only to one person" (which we call imagination, or madness, depending on our mood) and empirical, objective certain reality is not a two-step. It is instead an infinite gradation of degrees of reality brought about by agreement. The more agreemet there is about something, the more solid it gets. We don't have a way, culturally, to talk about the phenomena which are in between those two poles -- clear and real to many but not to all. We dismiss them as mass delusion, and so on. Maybe this is an error and there are more than two way-stations on the curve from "imaginary playmates" to "Everyone knows old Bill". A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:30 PM Fair enough, Bill. :-) This is an issue that clearly pushes my buttons. There's almost nothing I get this upset about anymore. I find that interesting, and I shall have to see if I can figure out why it bothers me so much. I have no doubt of what I saw back in the late 60's...intelligently piloted vehicles of a totally unknown sort, doing quite amazing maneuvers, in complete silence, at a high altitude. Many other people saw them too, and it got in the local papers for a couple of days, then was forgotten...but not by me. You find it unlikely that they could travel here? Well, using our science and technology?...yeah! Very unlikely. From the point of view of a Samoan villager on some isolated island not too long ago, it was quite unlikely that some people could fly over the island inside a noisy metal tube with wings on it too. Impossible! Laughable! Couldn't be! Then it happened... "Hmmmm...well, ummm...I guess it IS possible, after all," says the poor, dumfounded Samoan. Then the other Samoans who didn't see the airplane and its crew boil him up in a pot for lying and spreading scary "ghost" stories! I am suggesting that they have found a method of travel that we have little or no idea about, Bill...one that involves either faster-than-light speed or interdimensional travel or what we might call "time" travel. Or something else. They may be easily capable of visiting 85,000 different planets in the galaxy, and this one may be a very minor stop on the intinerary. Very minor. I know that thought would be hard to bear for human beings...that their planet might not be of number one concern to whoever else is out there...but it's a distinct possibility, isn't it? :-) We might be about as important as the Canary Islands. Or even worse...Belgium! Or worse than that...Blind River! Number 6 - Yeah, there are some individual women who are just as inflexible as the "right man", and Maggie Thatcher appears to have been one of them. She made Bush look like a pansy. :-) I bet she wore iron shorts. Fortunately, such women are relatively rare. You mentioned, "Now, back to aliens from outer space. I mentioned the power of the human mind. Do you not think it is the human, reaching within and outward of their boundaries, reaching for some spiritual meaning, beyond the physical of their being. Their own minds deriving answers from somehwere. Their answers bing remedied by some some vision within appearing as a supernatural phenomon such as aliens beyond their own world?" Yes, that is one possible interpretation, and it's quite an intriguing one... Our whole present perception of physical reality could be that too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Bill D Date: 26 Feb 05 - 02:36 PM yep...my logic also tell me IF 'they' are here, then they must have some serious whiz-bang technology to get here! FTL drive, folding space, whatever *grin*.... then again, If they are not here, we need ways to see what it is about ourselves that makes it so complicated. As Captain Kirk says |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 26 Feb 05 - 03:57 PM Yes, for the answers to those seemingly unresolvable conundrums (condundra?) that have bedeviled humanity down through the ages... Don't go to Plato. Don't go to Aristotle or Nietsche. Don't go to Goethe. Go to the collected recorded utterances of James T. Kirk (aka William Shatner). There you will find all the answers you have sought, my son! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Wolfgang Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:19 AM I have never given a care to what people tell me I see or don't see. (Brucie) I've learned a lot from other people telling me what it was I did see: animals unknown to me, new to me plants, light effects, traces in the sand, prestidigitators' tricks, a whale blowing. I don't think I know already everything I do see. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Bill D Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:31 AM you know what nasty tricks 'they'* are using right now? Last night 'they'* ran TWO different programs on Area 51...at the same time! Talk about a conspiracy! But one quote from the program was interesting...a now deceased chairman of Lockheed, which has been up to it's clavicle in secret projects for years, said that: (paraphrased)we are 50 years ahead of your wildest imaginings...if you have read about it, or speculated about it, we have been there and done that. So, I can MUCH more easily believe that *real* test vehicles of our own making are being spotted than that aliens are spying on us. *in this case, 'they' = The Discovery Channel and all the other channels they own. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: hesperis Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:37 AM I saw a grey alien once that looked a lot like the pictures shown on that tv show. I was asleep, and something glowed faintly against my eyelids, moving towards the door. The movement and glowiness woke me up. I opened my eyes and saw it, then half-raised on my elbow and said "what the?" out loud. It froze in place as soon as I moved, and then faded out. It was grey, about four feet tall, had large black eyes, and was very, very slightly glowing whitish. It was moving from the open area in the room as if towards the door, as if it had just appeared in the open area near the wall. I only saw it in semi-profile, not straight on, but it looked a LOT like the smoother-cheeked drawings on that show. I saw an alien... and I am still not sure if it was a hallucination or not. I have never seen anything like that before or since, except that I have seen other things while mostly-asleep that faded out like that, and those other things definitely WERE hallucinations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Donuel Date: 28 Feb 05 - 12:11 PM I looked for the Peter Jennings ufo documentary here in the DC area but it was apparently not broadcast here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Feb 05 - 05:25 PM Wolfgang, I'm glad you said that. I want to caution you about that tentacled, eight-armed, prickly, purple and green creature that you keep seeing under the bed at night. It's not real. You're imagining it. This sort of thing happens now and then, even to research scientists, and it's mostly due to fatigue. I suggest just taking some more time off, and these disturbing manifestations will not trouble you any longer. :-) Hesperis - interesting. Maybe you really did see a "grey"...or maybe not. I don't know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Donuel Date: 28 Feb 05 - 06:53 PM prickly purple green monster... They are really more of a reddish purple and they see high density objects as green. They are not green themselves http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushufo.jpg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: John Hardly Date: 28 Feb 05 - 07:43 PM I already saw the movie. Will Smith was great. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Wolfgang Date: 01 Mar 05 - 12:10 PM Wolfgang - you make many excellent points. Obviously, it is cynics for whom I should reserve my barbs, not sceptics. Point taken. (Little Hawk) You remember, LH, that was your response to my very first post on this topic when I explained to you that what you attack isn't a skeptic at all. But I see that 'point taken' does not ensure you don't make the same mistake again. A skeptic withholds judgement and never says he knows already. He's the one with the open mind. Why do you get so upset when error is mentioned as one possibility? You have started and titled this thread out of an error, so you should be open to such a possibility, even if you consider it not very likely. I have reread your old description of your two UFO encounters. I may be tempted to follow them up but some vital information is missing: Could you give a date as close as possible to when it was? And for the second encounter, could you tell me the time of the day? In all times, people have reported (and, occasionally, sworn) seeing things in the sky or seeing entities at night. In past centuries they have ssen ghosts, women riding on a broom, battles (yes, dozens of people have seen a battle in the sky, centuries ago), in this century they see UFOs (not in all parts of the world, in India they still see fancy animals or ghosts). One explanation, of course, is that we always had UFOs, and we now know better than the eyewitnesses describing women riding on a broom. They must have erred but modern observers don't. One other explanation should be obvious. only those who already have seen one seem to CARE (Little Hawk) If only those who have seen embrace one interpretation that's a telltale sign that something could wrong. It reminds me of the emperor's new clothes. Another telltale sign is if most of the observations of one phenomenon are made in the dark or under bad viewing conditions. When I was interviewed for a skeptics' magazine one question was which I would consider the most fascinating finding I could think of. I responded: The detection of life outside of the Earth. I still think so, but my bet for such a detection is on space probes or optical analysis of planets around distant stars and not on amateurs with no good knowledge about what they report. The amateur being right against the experts is the Hollywood version of detection. Appealing, more interesting than the reality, but very rarely true. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 05 - 12:59 PM I'm not sure what you are alluding to, Wolfgang. That last post I made about seeing the thing under your bed was simply a joke, that's all. I don't think it's really a question of amateurs vs experts. It's more a question of those who have had an unusual experience of some kind vs those who haven't. Those who haven't usually tend to assume that the unusual phenomenon doesn't exist...so whoever saw it must have been mistaken. People just naturally like to think that reality IS the way they already think it is. Even "experts" are subject to that kind of thinking. Very much so, in fact. Regarding my mistake upon starting this thread, it literally took me less than 5 minutes to realize my mistake, and I pointed it out on the 3rd post on this thread. In the case of the 2 incidents in the late 60's where I saw the UFO's, I had quite some time to observe them, through binoculars, and quite some time to reflect upon what I saw. I can come up with only 2 possible explanations. 1. alien flying vehicles of some sort 2. secret government flying vehicles of some sort I regard the latter possibility as more unlikely than the former, given the appearance and behaviour of the vehicles I saw. Both incidents occurred some time after dark, but not too late, and in the warm weather, and on nights when the sky was clear. More detail than that I cannot provide, because it was a long time ago, and I did not write down everything in detail at the time. I simply saw what I saw, in the company of my mother, and I remember it fairly well at this point, but I cannot remember precise details such as the exact time of day or what date it was or stuff like that. Nor can I remember such precise details about almost any other incident that happened to me 30 or more years ago...like the time the chameleon got his tail caught in the cage or the time my favorite girl in high school let me carry her books! (and believe me, THAT made an impression on me) :-) I cannot tell you in what year or at what time of day that happened either, but I remember it vividly. Like the UFO's....it really happened. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: GUEST,open minded Date: 01 Mar 05 - 01:20 PM Little Hawk did anyone other than yourself and your mother see these flying objects, I mean were there reported sightings of them from other people in the area, or even not in the area that night. Did they make the newspapers or tv news channels? Did you hear any sound when you saw them? Were there any military bases within 100 kilometres of the sightings? If you tried to draw them now could you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: gnu Date: 01 Mar 05 - 01:30 PM Military bases near LH? Trenton Air Force Base. Camp Borden Training Centre. HQ of all in Ottawa. And..... Camp X !!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: gnu Date: 01 Mar 05 - 01:32 PM I'd have mentioned Pettawawa but I don't know how to spell it. as for Camp X, I don't think it still exists, or does it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: GUEST,open minded Date: 01 Mar 05 - 01:33 PM What's camp X? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: gnu Date: 01 Mar 05 - 01:43 PM EXACTLY !!! It WAS a secret training facility in WWII. Detailed in "A Man Called Intrepid"... if you've never read the book, I suggest you do. My old man was attached to Ground Nuclear Defense at CFB Trenton from 1960 to 1966 and he saw lots of UFO's when he worked in the cobalt fields of Ontario. One I recall him relating vividly... not a whisper, looked like a large boomerang with aircraft engines and hovered overhead before moving off at tremendous speed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 05 - 01:50 PM Guest - "Little Hawk did anyone other than yourself and your mother see these flying objects, I mean were there reported sightings of them from other people in the area, or even not in the area that night. Did they make the newspapers or tv news channels? Did you hear any sound when you saw them? Were there any military bases within 100 kilometres of the sightings? If you tried to draw them now could you? " It was in upstate New York. There are some military bases around there, but I'm not sure exactly where. I think there was a military airfield near Syracuse, about 20 miles from where we were living. One time they did an air exercise of some kind, and a B-36 flew over the house at low level! What a sight that was. It's a tremendous airplane. There were a great many sightings reported that summer of UFOs similar to the one that I saw over the lake. People described them as "jumping stars" or "blinking stars". It was in the Syracuse newspapers a few times. I mean, there were just hundreds of reports. The vehicles I saw were completely soundless at all times, and left no vapour trail or any sign of an exhaust. The vehicle I saw over the lake could hover, stand still, move slowly, and move at an absolutely tremendous speed. It could accelerate and decelerate to enormous speeds instantaneously...that is...it could "stop on a dime" in one spot. Instant deceleration. We can't do that. The inertial effects would cause damage or destruction of the vehicle, given the laws of physics as we know them. Evidently, the vehicle I saw was able to operate independently of that...I don't know how. I, my mother, and my best friend saw one vehicle. I called him on the phone after I saw it. He lived about a half mile away, down the lakeshore. I think it was me, my mother, and my friend who saw the second vehicle at night as it passed over. I was in the backyard. I'm not quite sure anymore, but I think Bob (my friend) was there at the time. I remember yelling in excitement, because it was a pretty amazing sight to see...a totally silent vehicle, shaped kind of like a submarine or cucumber, you might say, silvery metallic, with a line of round windows down the side. No wings, no sound, no exhaust, no propellors, definitely not an airplane. I had the feeling it was a very large vehicle. Now, you understand these are things I saw just once...about 35 years ago. My memories have become about as vague as the memory of anything else one might have seen that long ago, so when I tell and retell the story I may not be able to do it every time entirely to Wolfgang's satisfaction, in that I may word things a little differently one time than another. Big deal. I still saw them. And could I draw them? Yes, I could draw a reasonably simple and accurate picture of either vehicle. I simply do not believe that the US government, in the late 60's, had vehicles that could be like those and do what they did. I don't think they have stuff like that now. And if they did, they would certainly not go flying it around all over upstate New York where the ordinary public could see it! (unless they WANTED people to believe in space aliens...and I doubt that) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Wolfgang Date: 01 Mar 05 - 01:56 PM Little Hawk's reports are here. Thanks for the response, LH, and for the attempt to fill in details. My point with the skeptics had nothing to do with your latest post (I didn't take that serious), it was a very late response to your skeptic...whose only basis for belief is an established prejudice and the conceit that he already KNOWS all there is to know about that particular matter remark. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Wolfgang Date: 01 Mar 05 - 02:04 PM REPORTS OF SIGHTINGS IN THE NIAGARA AND LAKE ONTARIO AREA (April 2, 1968)??? Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Wolfgang Date: 01 Mar 05 - 02:06 PM Nov 9, 1965 ??? Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: GUEST,open minded Date: 01 Mar 05 - 02:13 PM Thanks little hawk for the details. I am still no more convinced, but no more unconvinced either. I would love to have seen them or similar. I do believe you saw them. I wish we could get some proof that is indisputable. Why do you think 'aliens' for want of a better word have not made contact? If they can design the craft you saw, why can't they give us a real sign they exist? I know they may have no desire to contact us, but why not? I want them to be real. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: robomatic Date: 01 Mar 05 - 02:24 PM The human mind typically tries to make sense of what is input to it. A very good scientist named Simon Singh was giving a lecture based on his latest book regarding the Big Bang theory and one of his demonstrations was to play "Stairway to Heaven" backwards, the sounds made no sense, then he said that there was a message of satanic import included and told the audience what words they would hear and that they would be very clear. He played the same reversed sounds back and sure enough the words leaped out. I think this is totally possible with things we see. I recall once taking off in a small plane in Northern Canada in 'iffy' weather and noticing that my mind was locking into some shades that might be clouds but might be misty land and 'reversing' the same shapes, so in fact, I couldn't tell the clouds from the non clouds. I landed as quickly as possible and sat out the day and lived for the next. I'm not the first to observe that "UFO" simply means Unidentified. We've all seen UFO's. I'm quite certain that we've none of us seen "AFOs". It's anthropomorphic of me to insist yet I insist, that if I were an alien who had crossed many light years in order to find a living planet, I'd find something better to do than scare necking couples and lone farmers. Of course, I'd hitchike with a Teaser... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 05 - 04:07 PM Wolfgang, the link to the 1968 incidents sounds like it may connect to what I saw. Rather similar in a number of respects. My sightings did not occur around the time of the blackout in '65. I think 1968 is probably the year, all right. Guest - "Contact" may have been made even at a governmental level already on a number of occasions. That doesn't mean we get to hear about it on the media. It's a highly classified subject. The aliens could have any number of reasons for not revealing themselves to humanity in a totally open fashion. They may even have a moral restriction against interfering in our societies against the implicit will of our own governments. In other words...leave us fairly much alone until we are willing and ready for full contact. Or...we may not be all that important to them. Anything is possible. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Donuel Date: 01 Mar 05 - 04:18 PM 1980 at Niagara Falls a group of about 12 of us saw a point of light rapidly moving and stopping in a relative triangle course. It was probably the least dramatic sighting I have had. Stories linking Nuclear power plants and nuclear missle silos with ufos are numerous. Some go so far as to say that missle navigation programs (targets) had been changed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 05 - 04:46 PM Another thought: The aliens may actually respect us enough to keep their interference with our societies to a necessary minimum, and to allow US to decide when to make open contact. That would mean our governments would have to make the decision. As yet, in my opinion, our governments have decided to keep it secret by any and all means possible, because it's something they cannot control, and they don't like that. It makes them feel weak and vulnerable. They cannot accept the idea of something that they cannot control. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and film UFO. From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 05 - 04:47 PM And that's 100! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Mar 05 - 12:11 AM I requested a title change, Wolfgang. :-) Joe Offer was kind enough to oblige... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: gnu Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:39 PM Here's a UFO of sorts. I saw one of these for the first time over thirty years ago and have seen quite a few since... well, not "lots" but a dozen or so. I've never told anyone. Partly because most would think I am lying. Mostly because I never wanted anyone to know that they are still here. Two of the ones I saw were almost pure black with tails about three feet long. Majestic, silent, "slinky" in movement, almost like a dream that fades into the pines. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: Bill D Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:52 PM re: robomatic's comment...........There is a web site where someone is posting pictures of the World Trade center as it collapses...with souls/spirits 'appearing' in the smoke & dust. When he enlarges it and circles it in red and TELLS you what to look for, it sure is clear...sorta... I suppose he'd say we can't PROVE those are not spirits, and he'd be 'sorta' right. *shrug* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: number 6 Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:58 PM gnu ... did you actually see one of these. A friend of mine saw one up near Chipmun a few years back. That would be a sight to behold. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:02 PM "Chipmun"? Where's that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: gnu Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:26 PM Why, that would be just up the road from Chipman. Which is next to Salmon River, which is my old stompin grounds. I won't get any more specific. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: heric Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:17 PM That's a very cool story about the cats, gnu. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: gnu Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:30 PM Well, I don't know what will happen now. It's not like the coyotes, yet. Same thing happened over thirty years ago with coyotes. Me and my old man saw coyotes. He called them eastern brush wolves... they hunt in packs, like wolves, not like coyotes which are solitary animals. And these suckers are big. We were told we were nuts. For years, the DNR (Department of Natural Resources) denied there were coyotes in our woods, even when trappers supplied the bodies, as is now happening with the big cats. Nowadays, you have to be armed in the bush to be truly safe. The bears are no longer docile. I've been "challenged" by adolescent male bears at least four times in the past half dozen years. The coyotes are getting more brazen too. Next will be the big cats along the brooks. Kinda makes troutin exciting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:33 PM Sounds like a certain amount of controlled hunting might be a good idea...just so the large carnivores consider people too dangerous to fool with. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: number 6 Date: 02 Mar 05 - 10:09 PM Gnu .... Chipman, no one would ever find it!! In regards to coyotes there are problems here in SJ with them attacking small pets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: robomatic Date: 03 Mar 05 - 01:06 AM I once took a Boston 'T' ride where I had to change trains twice. On my first leg I was opposite a sleepy (drunk) bum looking guy. Got off, made my two changes in a rush, lots of hiking along concrete subterranean ways, on a completely different train heading for the suburbs and opposite me now is the same guy, still sleepy, semi-comatose bum! To this day have no explanation for it. Worthy of its own thread really...that would be pompous of me...told it to my brother. He put it in his writing class, called the story 'BUM' only in his tale the bum was you know who....God. True Story. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: gnu Date: 03 Mar 05 - 07:08 AM I don't know LH. I think I'd sooner see allowing people to carry some kind of protection. Of course, given the present laws and what's coming next, that will never happen. My plan this year is to fish with a buddy, one rod and one 12ga on a varmint license, and stay close. I've never killed a bear in my life but I've scared a few. And we're going to stay away from known dens until July - momma gets upset if you even get close to a den with her cubs in it. Unfortunately, they den where the best trout fishing is, where the waters run fast and deep and the banks are high and steep. My apologies for the divergence. Back to the UFO's. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: GUEST,TIA Date: 03 Mar 05 - 07:36 AM robomatic; Bum my arse. He was from the government, and tailing you very poorly. Now, very casually, glance around RIGHT NOW! Saw "The Bum" didn't you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Mar 05 - 08:15 AM I once had an experience sort of like that, robomatic. It was totally weird, and I have never found an explanation for it. I think "reality" may be a little different than we are generally assuming in some ways. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: Amos Date: 03 Mar 05 - 08:39 AM Either that or our perceptions work less consistently than we give them credit for, LH! :D A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Mar 05 - 08:49 AM Well, you're certainly up early. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: GUEST,A 'Visitor' Date: 05 Mar 05 - 09:11 PM I think this should clear things up. It's obviously just your government, so need to worry the preposterous notion that your being visited by superior, enlightened, and handsome beings from another world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Mar 05 - 10:18 PM Interesting. It does say in that same website that the government's secret vehicles were created partially through reverse-engineering OF various alien vehicles and equipment (probably secured in the Roswell incident and other incidents in the 1950's and 60's. It does not in any way explain what I saw in the late 60's. In any case, the vehicles I saw did not look like the TR-3 vehicles shown on that website...whether or not those TR-3 vehicles really exist. I wouldn't be all that surprised if they do. We live in a quite secretive society, in many respects. If something is "classified", you are not likely to hear much about it, and you can expect official denials to be issued if and when you do. Most people believe those official denials as a matter of course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: GUEST,A 'Visitor' Date: 05 Mar 05 - 10:21 PM Yes, well these sites are on so reliable, you know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Mar 05 - 10:40 PM Oh, for sure. :-) Look, if you want some really riveting and convincing material to get your teeth into, just do a Google search that says: Anti-Christ, proof You will be reading for days and days... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: Bill D Date: 05 Mar 05 - 11:54 PM I sure hope no one thinks those TR3 things were photos....They might exist, but those were digital creations...(Donuel could probably do better in an hour). Lots of real facts blended with conjecture and innuendo there--and THEN he starts with links to "hollow Earth" sites! The only thing I really draw from what he DID manage to point out, is that our govt does have some strange projects going, and they have to test them somewhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Illinois police see and DON'T film UFO From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Mar 05 - 12:13 AM No, I sure didn't think they were photos...but some such vehicles may exist. Or may not. As for the hollow Earth stuff, I've read about that since many years ago...always found it interesting...have little opinion about it, pro or con. The government undoubtedly has secret projects, but I doubt that they test them much over populated civilian areas. After all, they value secrecy, so why would they? |
