BS: About Time!

Subject: BS: About Time!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 09:41 AM

MADRID, Spain (AP) -- Muslim clerics in Spain issued what they called the world's first fatwa, or Islamic edict, against Osama bin Laden on Thursday, the first anniversary of the Madrid train bombings, calling him an apostate and urging others of their faith to denounce the al Qaeda leader.


Report in USA Today


The fatwa said that according to the Quran "the terrorist acts of Osama bin Laden and his organization al Qaeida ... are totally banned and must be roundly condemned as part of Islam."

It added: "Inasmuch as Osama bin Laden and his organization defend terrorism as legal and try to base it on the Quran ... they are committing the crime of 'istihlal' and thus become apostates that should not be considered Muslims or treated as such."

The Arabic term "istihlal" refers to the act of making up one's own laws.

*************Escudero said a fatwa can be issued by any Muslim leader who leads prayer sessions and as he serves such a role, he himself lawfully issued the edict.****************

He called it an unprecedented condemnation of bin Laden. "We felt now we had the responsibility and obligation to make this declaration," he said in an interview.

"I hope there is a positive reaction from Muslims," he added.

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:02 PM

I salute their faith and courage.

In the aftermath of the terrible bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City, a Muslim man was held on suspicion for about two days. (He was quite innocent.) He told journalists, "Islam forbids killing." That says it all.

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 03:31 AM

Why has this taken so long?

But less I be missunderstood, quicker than the Catholic Churcher appologising for its treatment of Gallileo?

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: John O'L
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 05:21 AM

If Islam forbids killing, where does it stand on fatwas?

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: John O'L
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 06:29 PM

I didn't mean to kill the conversation, I just have reservations about inciting a mob of friendly fundamentalists to murder a mob of hostile fundamentalists.

Firstly, it's a very loose cannon to have on board your ship, and secondly it won't solve anything.

It will not stop or terrorism, it will not bring closure for the families of his victims, it will more likely make him a martyr.

I think also that the pronouncement of this fatwa will do true muslims worldwide a lot of harm. Not only will it turn muslim against muslim, it will be highlighted as a uniquely muslim method of conflict resolution, which will delight their critics.

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: Pauline L
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 02:09 AM

If Islam forbids killing,
1. From whence cometh "The Koran or the sword?"
2. Why aren't Muslims pacifists?

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 09:43 PM

The Q'ran does not absolutely forbid killing. It does, however, forbid the killing of the innocent --- saying that 'He who murders one, murders a thousand' and it very definitely DOES NOT justify suicide bombing --- 'He who destroys himself by poison, by the sword or by leaping from a high place, at the Day of Resurrection shall be tormented in exactly that way'. Where's the exception in that for suicide bombing? I can't see it. The slender thread from which these killers hang their insane argument is the fact that the Q'ran permits killing those who attack Islam. So, perhaps their leaders should explain to them that, before detonating themselves, they should enquire of those in the vicinity if they are attackers of Islam or merely innocent passengers or passsersby with no very clear thoughts about Islam!

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 09:49 PM

A timely distraction from concerns about George Bush, bb.

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 10:06 PM

John O'Lennaine, a fatwa is not, by definition, an incitement to kill anyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 10:10 PM

Pauline L.

Why aren't Christians pacifists if the Bible says thou shalt not kill?

What does that make Bush?

...or Robertson?

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: mack/misophist
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:08 AM

Some theologians say the translation should be "Thou shalt not murder.

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: John O'L
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 12:02 AM

CarolC -

I wonder how many know what you know and how many think what I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 12:45 AM

The ten commandments appear in the book of Exodus. Four books later, in the book of Joshua, God helps the Jews slay hundreds of thousands of people including the Philistines (ancestors of the modern day Palestinians) in order for the Jews to occupy "the promised land". Go figure.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:06 AM

The Muslims will know, John O'Lennaine. It's the non-Muslims who hold those kinds of stereotypes.

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:15 AM

http://www.answers.com/topic/fatwa

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 08:11 PM

It was a farwa that was issued to coerce people into killing Salman Rushdie

Subject: RE: BS: About Time!
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 10:44 PM

So what? Some laws in countries like the US and Britain call for killing people as well. But that doesn't make all laws in such countries incitements to kill. There was recently a fatwa issued in Britain calling for women to take off their head scarves if they were concerned that by wearing them, they were putting themselves at risk of being harmed by non-Muslims. It was a fatwa, but it did not incite to kill.

A fatwa condemning al Quaeda can very easily be a ruling that Muslims should not follow people like Osama bin Laden. It doesn't necessarily mean that he should be killed.

A fatwa telling Muslims that they should not follow the likes of Osama bin Laden is a good fatwa in my opinion.