Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: GUEST,UK Ted
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 10:31 AM

Thanks, everyone, for the input. All told, perhaps I WAS a bit of a prat but it brought to the surface many of the frustrations and concerns I've had about these individuals and their attitude towards music and performing. No question the whistle player is musically the weakest link - I was hoping her timing, etc. would improve with practice but it hasn't and she gets pouty when anybody brings it up. I've had some complaints about her (mostly from other musos in the audience). The melodeon player is quite competent but a very taciturn chap who doesn't do much for the energy of the group. For a while I've had the feeling that they've been coasting along - showing up and getting paid (and sometimes whining about it not being enough)while doing nothing about getting bookings, updating the website, arranging, etc. It's time for a talk, they'll probably not like what I have to say, and there'll be some changes.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 01:49 AM

Did you pay the whistle player for the cancellation? If I was still in a band and the band was cancelled at short notice I would at least expect to keep the deposit.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: Gypsy
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 10:37 PM

Technically, i suppose that you are correct. And i really don't know if i would have handled things too much differently. Or maybe i would have, depending on how much time i had available. But dis-inviting someone to a gig can be pretty cold, at the very least. Have seen this in another band that i sometimes guest in. If the whistle player cannot make things work as a duo, some other alternatives would be: find a temporary third player, or, permanently replace the whistle player. It would be difficult to diplomatically explain to the whistle player that yes, you are good enough if there are enough players to cover you up/cover for you, but not good enough if the audience can really hear you.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: Midchuck
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 08:58 PM

I see your problem, and your reasoning, but I tend to agree with s&r. There's a break in the chain of logic.

The melodeon player finked on you, so the whistle player got punished.

In any event, you'd probably be better off going solo. You can't function as a trio, playing out, unless all three people understand that once they have a gig, they show up unless they're in jail or so sick that they can't even crawl onto the stage. And if you have anyone in the group that goes to jail very often, you also have a problem.

Just my not-very-well-considered opinion.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: rhyzla
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 08:43 PM

I think you are only a prat if you continue to play in a trio where you do most of the work, and still take one third.

Give yourself a payrise, and tell the other 2 they will get less or they can bugger off!! At least it will clear the air .....maybe!

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: jimmyt
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 08:34 PM

I think you made a valid decision and it seems that, short of her having big tits, it is time to reevaluate your group and make sure they are a fit with you.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: breezy
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 07:27 PM

Does the whistle player have big tits?

If not, Go solo.

Sounds like You aint got a band that works as a team.

You can still invite individuals to join you if you feel so inclined but protect your position first.

like wise if you get invited elsewhere, your free.

Been there.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 07:06 PM

You made a sensible business decision. Employees not satisfied. Dog bites man.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: paddymac
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 06:40 PM

I'm not sure of the usual meaning given the "east side" slang term "prat." My read on your response to the situation you were presented with is that you acted reasonably. If you had concerns about keeping the trio together, it would have been wise to explain the circumstances to the whistle player. She might have backed out of the gig graciously, had she been given the chance. It does sound as though the cohesiveness of the group was already under stress, so maybe you should be courteous and move on. Band break-ups are a lot like divorces in the emotional sense: rarely, if ever, easy, but sometimes very necessary for the good of all concerned, though it may not seem so at the time. One way around such problems in the future is a simplified "contract" or agreement that spells out what happens when those unexpected situations arise, and who decides what to do.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 06:38 PM

It's hard to judge the situation fairly because we're only hearing from one of the band members.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 06:11 PM

You should have discussed the matter with the whistle player first. It sounds as if yous changed the booking, one she was still prepared to honour with you behind her back. If I'm reading it correctly, yes I think you are a prat.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM

You're the band leader, and the booker, so you call the shots. But you did the right thing.

The band is a trio--if you don't have a trio, you don't have your band. The organizers said they'd take your solo stuff in place of the band, which stiffed them. That was pretty decent, if I'd been promised a band and I got a solo act instead, I might be a bit upset.

If your singer/whistle player has a problem, it is with the melodeon player who backed out on a committment. You also have a right to be angry at the melodeon player, because you booked the job, and he stiffed you, leaving you in hanging in the lurch.

The only thing is that the folks in the band might not see it that way. Over the years, I've led a number of bands, and, like you, ended up writing and arranging, doing the bookings, and all the heavy lifting. I always divide the proceeds equally, and even at that, I've had people who felt they deserved more--

My thought is that the melodeon player probably told the singer she deserved to play and get half in order to distract you from the fact that he made a committment, and then backed out.

I'd have found someone to fill in for the melodeon player so that you could play the job. Now that it's over, I'd still think finding a replacement, because not only can't you rely on him to make the gigs, he still wants to tell you how to divide the money--

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: GUEST,UK Ted
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 05:45 PM

Actually s&r may have hit the nail on the head and I might be better off looking for a couple of other musos or striking off solo again. If I'd felt that the whistle player would bring anything to the table, had really worked on the arrangements and was putting in some effort, it would have been different. But she hasn't put in the time or effort that's needed and it shows. There has been a certain resentment on my part that the others haven't been pulling their weight and are just showing up for gigs half cocked with their hands out for the money at the end of the evening. Perhaps it's time to move on.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 05:39 PM

Well..... it's given you all something to discuss.... I would say that although you were under pressure and could not think of it at the time, it might have been an option to include the whistle player/singer but change the set list to give her a few feature numbers.... not sure how the venue would have taken that.

Sounds like it was a good solution for the gig, but pretty much a no-win situation with the band.

But more urgently-- what the heck is the melodeon player doing telling you what you should have done with the situation he created??????? (I don't think you are the prat in this.)

Anyway this is the time to clarify a few things, thinking carefully about what you can actually live with in terms of agreements, finances, and ego aspects, for the future, with this buncha folks.

I'd be curious to know-- what would you LIKE to say to them? Not suggesting you say it to them, but it might be helpful to vent that with someone who can keep it private.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 05:39 PM

There's no question that you had the right to proceed as you did, and your reasons sound good enough to me.

Of course, the human-relations questions can always be thorny, and it's very understandable that the whistle player feels cheated. It's complicated, isn't it?

From now on, all members of the trio will need to understand, in advance, what happens whenever any one member begs off. Can you function as a duo with the one player and not the other? Good luck trying to explain that to the odd-person out! Can you ~ and do you want to ~ work out a whole evening's worth of duet material with each of the other two?

Maybe the only workable alternative is to go back to being a solo ~ ??

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: s&r
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 05:35 PM

Venue faultless. Band relationship crap.

Stu

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 05:30 PM

Venue was entitled to cancel band - not band booked.

Venue was entitled to book solo singer to replace.

Subject: RE: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: s&r
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 05:28 PM

Your melodeon player let you down so you sacked the whistle player.....

I'm sure there's some logic somewhere

Stu

Subject: Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat?
From: GUEST,UK Ted
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 05:11 PM

I have been performing off and on for a number of years, sometimes solo, sometimes as a duo and most recently with a trio. We've got a bloke on melodeon, a gal that sings and plays the whistle, and myself on guitar and sometimes fiddle or banjo. I'm also the lead singer and so far I've gotten all the bookings, done all the arranging, provide most of the sound equipment, etc. Nevertheless I've always divided the pay equally.   Not too long ago the melodeon player backed out of a committment we'd made months ago, and for a not very good reason. The singer/whistle player blends in okay with the trio (although there are some quality problems there) but I dont think that the arrangements work with just myself and her as a duo. I called the organizers and explained - they've seen me solo and said it would be fine for me to just come and do the show. Now the other two band members are brassed off, saying even though one of us couldn't make it I should have brought the other along and shared the pay. I don't feel I was under any obligation whatsoever and was more comfortable doing my solo material, which I've honed over the years, rather than some half baked arrangements meant for a trio and performed by a duo. The show went fine and the organizers were happy. I'd be interested to hear what others think.