BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: Wrinkles
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 05:27 AM

Any links to these murals?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 08:15 PM

Here's the BBC version of the story about the Minister

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 02:51 PM

Loyalist youth Rat, is the young offspring of the loyalist or Protestant community, so called because of their declared loyalty to the British crown. Fly is a dialect word meaning cunning or underhand.
You must be careful not to confuse the situation in Northern Ireland with the situation and history of the Republic of Ireland, this is a common occurence among some of the descendants of those who emigrated to the US in the 1840s as a result of the potato famine. The misguided patriotism of many of these people led an organisation called Noraid, now banned, receiving monies which were used to further the sectarian strife in the north. To be even handed in this there was also fund gathering from Protestants, largely in Scotland which in its turn also contributed to the continuation of this stupid hate war.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: The Curator
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 09:56 AM

I agree with you about the abuse,I do not defend it. This thread is about a minister making a mock of the dying Pope and his church agreeing with him. If the Church of England had done it to a muslim there would have been an outcry.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: GUEST,The Rat
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 09:40 AM

Catholic priests did not touch young loyalist youths (they may have liked to) but I doubt the tramps that painted these murals were victims of sexual abuse, maybe you know something we don't ?? Please let us know more about the fly priests slipping into loyalist areas of Belfast for a bit. Shame on them.

Curator, thank you for the insights. I'm not Irish and I've never been to Belfast, so I have no comment about "young loyalist youth" or "fly priests" (??? - sorry, but even those terms are strange to me)

I do know that child abuse at the residential schools is certainly not the only axe the people of Ireland have to grind with the Church. But for those who survived it, it's certainly the heaviest and most horrific.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: The Curator
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 09:34 AM

Being hypothetical, Yes there was abuse by priests, but not in The Shankill, The Village or Newtownards Road. Stop getting away from the main topic. Maybe there is defence of the Presbyterian Church going on here ? Do you want the names of their ministers involved in abuse ???. Back to the main topic please.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 09:31 AM

I have no bias one way or the other, I was brought up in and around Glasgow and learned very quickly that one shower of sectarians were as stupid as the other. I dislike all religion qually!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: GUEST,THE AVENGER
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 09:27 AM

BY THE SOUNDS OF THE WAY THE CURATOR HAS SPOKEN ON THE CATHOLIC PRIESTS SNEAKING IN TO ANY AREA TO ABUSE YOUNG PEOPLE HE IS NOT A CHURCH GOING PERSON

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: The Curator
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 09:20 AM

One sided post Giok ? Rich coming from you.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: The Curator
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 09:16 AM

Ah hello Rat, I said these murals appeared in Loyalist areas of Belfast where the Pope is disliked. If you think the murals went up because priests abused young boys ! (in your words to be expected).
I will let other people answer your reply, Catholic priests did not touch young loyalist youths (they may have liked to) but I doubt the tramps that painted these murals were victims of sexual abuse, maybe you know something we don't ?? Please let us know more about the fly priests slipping into loyalist areas of Belfast for a bit. Shame on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 09:14 AM

Well Lady Rat while your post is a valid one it is no more so than The original one sided post that started this thread. You cannot get a clear picture of this conflict from someone who is emotionally involved in it.
There is equal wrongs and hatred on both sides.
As far as the Industrial Schools are concerned they are no different to the children shipped out to Australia by the British government, most of whom were abused, and mistreated. Or the Australian governments removal of Aboriginal children and placing them with non Aboriginal families where they were mostly treated exactly the same way. Many governments and closed orders like churches, and sects indulged in social engineering of this sort, then of course there was a certain Mr A Hitler with odd ideas in that department.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: GUEST,just a rat in the belltower
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 08:28 AM

That sounds so disrespectful, Curator. Hmmmm ... could this be why?

Suffer the Little Children: The Inside Story of Ireland's Industrial Schools, by Raftery and Eoin O'Sullivan, the duo behind "States of Fear." The three-part television documentary shook Ireland to its core when it was broadcast in 1999. The Irish Government swiftly issued an apology "to the tens of thousands of children who grew up in Ireland's extraordinary network of what were called 'industrial schools'," as Raftery and O'Sullivan write. This book (previously released in Ireland) includes new material, which documents abuse at industrial schools in even more horrific detail: maggot-ridden food, rape, starvation, savage beatings over bed-wettings, exploitative labor practices

In the 70's, when I was 14, I had a penpal who was a year older from Dublin, Ireland. He was a student at a Catholic boarding school there, just as all his brothers had been. He used to write me strange letters, saying that he wished he could tell me about the horrible things that were being done to him and to the other students at his school. But he said he couldn't tell me for fear that his letters were being opened and read by his schoolmasters; also because I was a girl and he just couldn't talk about it with a girl. At the time I had no idea what he meant, till he illustrated one of his letters one day with a lovely pencil sketch of a muscular man's hand clenching a thick cane.

I started to 'get the picture', but even so at 14 I was still too "innocent" to have the rest of the appalling truth of what he was suffering occur to me. Fortunately for him, the Irish and the rest of the world, the secrecy and taboo against even discussing these sordid matters has now become a thing of the past.

Even so, it will no doubt take a long LONG time for the people of Ireland to forget what happened to so many of them while under the "care" of the Catholic clergy. And in the meantime, incidences of public disrespect like the one Curator describes are not to be encouraged but certainly to be expected.

The Rat

Subject: RE: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 08:19 AM

If only disgusting murals would have been the highest level of violence in and around Belfast....

Wolfgang

Subject: BS: Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals
From: GUEST,The Curator
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 06:22 AM

I visited Belfast on Monday and was sickened to see the amount of disgusting wall murals in Loyalist areas depicting the death of Pope John Paul. Last night on Ulster television there was a report of a Presbyterian minister who did an act of the dying Pope suffering Parkinson's disease just days before his death to a full congregation, which was met with laughter. The Presbyterian Church made a statement last night night saying they will not be taking any action against Rev, Dickinson (a good old member of the Orange Order) for this deed. This is an example of what Catholics face daily in this country.