BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2

Subject: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 May 05 - 07:22 PM

Seeing that my first thread was closed because no one one could discuss Alan Dershovitz's fine article with out getting in the usual anti-semetic mode, let's try again.

Please read this article from this fine Harvard law professor:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1391995/posts

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 05 - 07:27 PM

that isnt the reason it was closed...now fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 May 05 - 07:30 PM

The reason was you, Guest.

I'm not going anywhere. Did you read the article? What do you think?

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 05 - 07:31 PM

I think you should fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 May 05 - 07:34 PM

Moderator, please delete the previous Guest's posts.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 05 - 07:35 PM

moderator please delete all of martins personal attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 05 - 07:37 PM

ps and martin fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 May 05 - 07:37 PM

LOL!!

Guest, let's get back on the topic of this thread. Why do you think Dershovitz brands many left wing UK professors as anti-semites?

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 05 - 07:50 PM

No idea. Now fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 May 05 - 09:06 PM

I think that it's because you, guest are a UK professor and are having a homosexual affair with someone named Abdul.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 05 - 09:21 PM

I see nothing that would exempt people from being bigots just because they are teachers. A fellow in Alberta named Jim Keegstra taught his students that the Holocaust didn't happen He was also the mayor of Eckville. He did that for years before a parent brought it to the attention of the school board and the Alberta Teachers' Association. His certification was yanked by the ATA.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 May 05 - 09:25 PM

Good brucie. He deserved it.

I have heard other incidents similar to that.

It was in the June copy of the World Jewish Digest, which claims that it is the number one Jewish periodical.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 05 - 09:30 PM

The "Simon Wiesenthal Centre for Holocaust Studies" points out the prevasiveness of the problem worldwide. Some years back kids in an Austrian school were visiting a 'game' site. The player could put in the 'people' of his choice and run an extermination camp--and if I recall, there was the choice of Blacks, Muslims, Jews and Turks. This sick crap seems to have no end. I should point out that when it was brought to the attention of the school authorites, they blocked the site(s).

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST,Interested
Date: 29 May 05 - 09:58 PM

The more important question is why part one of this thread was closed down ? Who is protecting Martin ? Why does Martin feel like he needs protection ?

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST,Bemused
Date: 29 May 05 - 10:00 PM

And why would that make you Interested?

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST,Interested
Date: 29 May 05 - 10:05 PM

Because Martin says some of the most vile things imagineable and someone is allowing him to do it. All some of us are trying to do is ask Martin to talk about issues instead of making foul personal attacks. Martin calls women c**ts all of the time. But people who ask him not to do so are deleated.

But if that's the website you want then so be it.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Bobert
Date: 29 May 05 - 10:24 PM

Ditto, GUEST, Interested....

The BS threads before MG were more interestin' because the didn't get highjacked by one highly bigoted individual...

I remember the first thread I started here. It was about the Department of Peace and it went somewhere around 100 posts an', though I didn't agree with too many folks, it was at least intellectually stimulatin' and in the end I came away with a few things to thing about...

Not these days!

Anything that remotely resembels a thread that might steer off the beatine' path of Bush-conformity gets highjacked by one individual...

Like what is this all about? How come one individual can continually be allowed to dominate and highjack otherwise thoughtfull threads???

Hey, I don't mind folks disagreein' wid me... But this is getting rediculous...

Not too sure how to correct it but it needs correctin'....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 May 05 - 02:02 AM

What dou think Martin?

Honestly ....are you reaping a bit of what you've sown?

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 May 05 - 04:39 AM

Hammer this thought into your brains folks.

DO.......NOT.....RESPOND!

Problem solved.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 30 May 05 - 05:07 AM

Right on the button Don.
Now everybody, repeat after Don and me - "DO....NOT.....RESPOND, DO....NOT.....RESPOND", "DO.....NOT..................."
Got it?
Good.
Now perhaps he'll fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 05 - 06:45 AM

He is a closet homosexual crying out for attention he can't speak to his Rabbi about it......move on you sicko you will not succeed in giving homosexuals a bad name.

What part of FUCK OFF dont you understand.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: CarolC
Date: 30 May 05 - 10:36 AM

So was it a case of "anti-Whiteism" when the same thing was done to the academic institutions (as well as athletes, artists, and business people) of South Africa in the early 1970s?

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/worldwide/story/0,9959,1463754,00.html

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 May 05 - 01:25 PM

(I believe that this thread has brought out the best of the British Nazis.

Anti-semitism is running rampant in Great Britain and much of Europe. The Mudcat BS section has plenty of these Nazis here.

No one is protecting me here. Perhaps some are finally wise to the BS and agendas here.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 30 May 05 - 06:55 PM

In comes the new year, just like the old year...

It's been a whole ten months since I stopped reading the 'Cat (and the thought of catching up on the Mother of all BS Threads dismays me...)

So why haven't the conversations changed? The same complaints as before. *Yawns*

Cya

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST,Don (Wysiwyg) T by the back door
Date: 31 May 05 - 06:07 AM

Martin,

As your last post was a genuine expression of opinion, it's worthy of rational discussion. So here goes!

1. I don't have sufficient knowledge of the situation in the US to agree or disagree with your comments on anti semitism there, tho' I have seen references to jews having difficulty in becoming members of certain country clubs and golf clubs. I have no way to know whether these are true or not.

2. I would suggest that you are in the same position in terms of your knowledge of my country. There are jews in every walk of life here from dustmen to MPs, and there is no problem for those of the Jewish faith in attaining to the highest positions.

Jew haters here are a tiny insignificant minority, and I haven't heard of any club or association that asks prospective members "Are you Jewish?", let alone turns they away.

I don't know where your info on British anti Semitism comes from, but I would suggest that they are less persecuted here than in Israel, where they run the risk of being blown up by suicide bombers.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 May 05 - 04:05 PM

Don, there is probably no more actual anti-Semitism in the United States than there is, as you have described, in Britain. Here, too, Jews are in every level of society and in every level of politics (Joe Lieberman was one of the candidates for the Democratic nomination, but the fact that he wasn't nominated had to do with his stated policies, not with his religion). There may be a few pockets of anti-Semitism here or there in groups like the Ku Klux Klan, the American Nazi Party (with the death of George Lincoln Rockwell, I'm not sure that even exists anymore), or Aryan Nations, but these organizations are minuscule and powerless, and are regarded by all but themselves as a collection of sickos, psychopaths, and freaks.

When the Aryan Nations hold their annual parade in that great world metropolis, Hayden, Idaho (population in 2002, 9,885), rather than being cheered, the local townspeople usually greeted them with hoots, cat-calls, and unsanitary missiles. The locals regard this group as an embarrassment to the community, and have tried to deny them a parade permit, but legal eagles pointed out that this would be a violation of the First Amendment (which permits freedom of expression of all viewpoints, no matter how distasteful). Anti-Semitism in general is essentially non-existent, and when and if encountered, even if there are no Jews present at the time, such attitudes are usually met with scorn and vigorous admonishment.

Martin Gibson's claims of rampant anti-Semitism, whether here on Mudcat or in the country in general, stem less from reality and more from his contention that anyone who feels that Palestinians are human beings too and deserve to be treated humanely are, ipso facto "anti-Semitic."

This, of course, is nonsense. Oppression is never justified, no matter who does it. And if the Palestinians felt that they were getting a fair shake and that they actually had some hope, such things as suicide bombings would greatly diminish or cease entirely.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 May 05 - 04:05 PM

Don T. all I have done is call attention to an article by a prestigous Harvard law professor, trial lawyer, author, and spokesmen for many who read his work in many Jewish periodicals.

I would not think anything is made up. There must be basis for this.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 31 May 05 - 04:36 PM

No Martin, that's not quite ALL you have done.

You have indeed drawn attention to an instance of genuine concern. If the chain of events was as described, the action was indefensible, and the instigator should be subject to punishment for such action.

What I am objecting to is the several casual references to anti semitism being rife, and routine, in the UK.

I don't believe that you have sufficient knowledge of the UK to make such observations, and you certainly cannot extrapolate from one incident, however reprehensible, to that sweeping generality.

Please believe me when I say that sixty five years of living here, in a culture which includes a very large number of Jews, in all walks of life, does qualify me to say that I would be aware of any large scale animosity toward them. In the main, it just does not exist.

The BNP, and certain others who may hate Jews, are a very tiny proportion of the population of this country, and most of us work and socialise with members of our community, without necessarily becoming aware that they ARE Jewish, and certainly without being concerned if they are.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 May 05 - 05:35 PM

Sorry, don T.

I have no faith in what you are saying at all.

I posted an article and I have not reason to not believe it as I have quite a lot of respect for Mr. Deshowitz who has some pretty inpressive creditials while you have as far as I can see, zilch.

Nor do you know everyone in the UK and how they think.

As for Don Firth, he is another one who has no scope of the matter, nor has he ever been threatedned in his life with anti-semitism nor does he know if any but a very small handfull of people who are affected.

Dorry you two Dons. This article was written by someone very close to the subject of which neither of you are.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 May 05 - 06:11 PM

Martin Gibson has no way of knowing what scope I have on the problem, nor does he know the people I know. The son of a good friend (Jewish) lived in Tel Aviv for some years, and I've talked to him a lot on occasions when he returned to visited his mother here in Seattle (by the way, he's living in London, now, and likes it very much). And he is only one of many people of the Jewish faith I know and have had occasion to discuss things with.   Nor does Martin have any idea of any discrimination that I may have been subjected to.

Martin is quick to make pronouncements regarding people he does not know and about whom he knows nothing.

That's called "prejudice."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad
Date: 31 May 05 - 06:57 PM

WHAT - Martin has prejudice in his heart ?

Say it isn't so !!!

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 31 May 05 - 08:35 PM

Don Firth,

Ditto.

I had already agreed with him on that one case, but still can't see where that gives rise to the belief that that kind of thing is rife.

And, of course, he, 3000+ miles away, would naturally know more about my country than I, who have lived there all my life.

My many Jewish friends and acquaintances will get a huge laugh out of this, when I tell them that they are being persecuted. It'll come as a big surprise to them.

None so blind.........

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 May 05 - 08:37 PM

waht all this is about?

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Bill D
Date: 31 May 05 - 09:13 PM

it's about over, j0hn...

we were just telling MG that a few loud & noisy anti-Semites, stupid as they are, are not exactly a world-wide movement.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 May 05 - 09:56 PM

(Allow me) oh

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 May 05 - 10:25 PM

Don T, I am saying that Alan Dershowitz has a better handle than you do and even though you live in the UK, you have published nothing credible if anything at all on the subject, nor do you and Don Firth have any reputation what so ever as being experts in the subject.

Don Firth claims to be an expert on virtually every topic that comes up on Mudcat and is the original knows a little about some things and a whole lot about nothing.

In short, you are both just old men with very, very limited experience with Jews and have very little concept on what anti-semitism really is and how it can affect one's psyche.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 May 05 - 11:01 PM

Judging by what it's done to yours, Marvin- I agree.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: dianavan
Date: 31 May 05 - 11:26 PM

We all know that Martin suffers from a persecution complex.

Most of us have been discriminated against for one reason or another. Most of us, however, have better ways of dealing with it. Its how you deal with it that really matters. You can cry about "poor me" or you can change your response to the situation. Its really about how you react to the problem that defines the solution.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST,cissco & sonny & ledbelly to.
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 07:31 AM

great u are named after to great guitars could have been hofner & horner.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 07:59 AM

like u hofner, the well known misprint who started playboy magazine

all we're saying martin is that we DO have a free pree press over here and you'd have thought SOMEONE, apart from this Harvard professor, would have mentioned the problem. I'm not sure, but isn't Michael Howard , Leader of her majesty's opposition a jew? he'd have had something to say.

Anyway do you really subscribe to the idea that college folk know everything - a lot more than everybody else.

Like Leopold and Loeb maybe.

Do you think the English college professors in Oxford and Cambridge know about what goes down in your town?

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 08:05 AM

this could be your answer, martin

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 08:20 AM

Great link to a very good article.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST,The Barden of England at work
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 08:51 AM

I went to a school that was two thirds Jewish, I lived in a prodominently Jewish area of London for 35 years, had and still have many Jewish friends, none of whom is Mr. Deshowitz but many of whom have pretty impresive credentials too and they don't share your views of my country. A Harvard professor can have his views the same as anybody else, but it certainly doesn't mean he's right. By the way 99.99% of the population of this country, and I dare say yours, aren't published either, but it doesn't make them any the less knowledgeable.
Finally, your statement

"Date: 30 May 05 - 01:25 PM

(I believe that this thread has brought out the best of the British Nazis.

Anti-semitism is running rampant in Great Britain and much of Europe. The Mudcat BS section has plenty of these Nazis here.

No one is protecting me here. Perhaps some are finally wise to the BS and agendas here."

Well - what can I say except I don't believe the miniscule amount of people on this board from any one country can be used to prove that anything is running rampant anywhere. I believe my country is as tolerant a country as you will find anywhere, which wasn't always the case in its Imperial past, but it is the past and not relevant to modern times.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 08:54 AM

"DO.....NOT.....RESPOND"   "DO....NOT.....RESPOND"   "DO....NOT.....RESPOND". It's not difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 09:17 AM

"DO.....NOT.....RESPOND"   "DO....NOT.....RESPOND"   "DO....NOT.....RESPOND". It's not difficult.

Totally agree and lets get back to some proper bullshit

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 09:23 AM

That boycott is a success of the recent PACBI campaign based upon a spurious similarity between Israel and apartheid-South Africa. I wouldn't support such a boycott in this case.

The apartheid analogy, like the Nazi analogy, comes up a bit too often and too easily. Yesterday I read an interview with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the woman mentioned as the next victim on the breast of the Dutch filmmaker murdered by an islamist. She said that "the idea of multiculturalism that is the concept to treat all cultures as equal is a well meant form of apartheid" (her reasoning: (1) because it supports the segregation of men and women in the Muslim society and (2) because it supports the segregation of different subcultures in Europe).

Should we now boycott all Muslim countries as well as long as they do not give up the literalist interpretation of the Koran?

Such boycotts are usually stupid unless (1) the dislike of a regime is close to universal and (2) it is an economic boycott being able to force down a regime effectively (and not only to give some academics a good feeling).

Academic boycotts (and sport boycotts as well) are inherently silly and fly into the face of what one basic idea of science is. Should I for instance disregard a mathematical proof from an Egyptian colleague and write that the theorem...has not been proven yet? Should I disregard a warning about fatal side effects of a vaccination for it has been found by a colleague from Israel? Bullshit.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 11:12 AM

Strollin' Johnny. do not respond to this.

Go fuck your mother.

OK? thanks!

Strollin' Johnny just might be a Nazi trying to censor this thread and the article I wrote, it must bother him and hit home with him so much. The ones that cause the biggest reaction to stuff like this obviously are.

Anyway, I still believe that Alan Dershowitz's article says a lot about the left wing college professors in europe. College professors such as these British ones (and some we do have here) are not gods on a pedestal.

They should be criticized for and Dershowtiz has done just that.

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 11:19 AM

DO.....NOT.....RESPOND"   "DO....NOT.....RESPOND"   "DO....NOT.....RESPOND".

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 11:20 AM

DO.....NOT.....RESPOND"   "DO....NOT.....RESPOND"   "DO....NOT.....RESPOND".

Subject: RE: BS: From Britain With bigtotry Part2
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 11:20 AM

you just did! You just did! You just did!

Guests like you are morons!

Please respond!