BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: The Curator
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 08:16 AM

Greater education would help alanabit, I have also heard similar calls from the people that you speak of.They chant what their leaders dictate.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 07:34 AM

I think it is right to point out both sides of the problem. Indeed, there are the self inflicted wounds of tribalism and poor leadership on the one side, along with the crippling burden of international debt on the other. Although I agree that we cannot solve the former problem for those countries, it also appears that the debt problem does nothing to help those countries to find better leadership. (This does not only apply to African nations. I recall reading that something similar happened in Europe in the thirties.)
Most of us would like to see Western style, multi party democracy instituted in all countries. The fact is, not all countries want it or have any chance of sustaining it. The rallying cry of the fundamentalists in Algeria was, "We don't want democracy. We want Islam". I have very little liking for fundamentalists of all persuasions (not least of all the Christian variety). However, I really can't assert that we know how to run their countries better than they do. We can't dictate how they must act. We can simply try to act with kindness and mercy ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: The Curator
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 06:51 AM

sadly making the decisions for them may be the only solution. There are a lot of tin pot self appointed tribal leaders at the heart of this problem, and they won't go away.Some may say they are there because the larger tribes want them there, whoever holds the gun calls the shots is the reality.If anyone thinks writing off debts and a supply of food is the answer, I don't, yes help is needed but we need to see the core of this problem resolved, and that is at local leadership level.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 09:44 PM

It's precisely because you can't trust their governments to make the right decisions that a measure of control is necessary. Give them aid, and they buy weapons with it. That's why their people are starving.

I don't advocate making their decisions for them, merely the threat of re-instating the loans if they do not use the saving to stop their people starving.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 08:55 PM

Personally, i quite like the guy. I do think he's coked out his nut, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 06:33 PM

OK, conceded, kind of true, but you know what I mean.:)

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 06:15 PM

I wonder if it's in the long term good of the African people to join the 21st century.
Perhaps if Africa could have escaped the effects of the last couple of centuries it's people might not now be in need of our charity or our modern day missionaries....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 05:45 PM

No I don't think the recent elections will see much in the line of change Guest. There has to be outside intervention from the developed world which is more than throwing a few deliveries of food at the problem and walking away. Don what you have come up with could work, excellent idea. Is any one out there in a position to put Don's idea to someone in a position of power ? If so please get moving.

Don I was thinking about this post. It infers (to me) that nobody in those affected countries have already thought of the longterm planning necessary. They may need their debts written off, but I think it is presumptious of us to think they also need us to think for them.

I hope this agreement re the debts will signal the new start needed to get these countries into the 21st century. I also hope their elected politicians show the integrity to make that succeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 05:42 PM

I would watch Wolfowitz's moves in the coming two years. The World Bank will be a big player in this 'control the world' game that will soon be acting out. Fuckin' banks do NOT just let debts go--they want their flesh and one way or the otrher, they'll get it. IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 05:36 PM

That's the point, GUEST.

The West has the power to make them debt free, and control their governments to ensure that the money is used for the betterment of their lot.

Without that, they cannot ever be debt free because they don't have sufficient Gross National Product to service the interest on that money, let alone pay off the capital.

Let's face fact. That money can't, and won't, be repaid. So why not make a virtue of necessity, and use the carrot to make the donkey go, while holding the stick of re-instatement to ensure his progress in the right (i.e. moral, and ethical) direction.

I don't see a flaw in the reasoning. If you do, I would consider it a kindness if you would point it out for me.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 09:32 AM

Where has it been said that the countries have not thought of this themselves and are working on a long term solution. They need to be debt free first to enable it.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: The Curator
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 07:42 AM

Don't think they would allow us in John, as I said someone with a little pull needs to put Don's proposal to them, again I say deliveries of food help, but are not the long term answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 07:33 AM

I support Geldof . At least he is brave enough to put his head above the parapet and say what he feels.
If only people would listen and think of WHY and not how hegets us aware of what is happening.

END POVERTY

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST,John McLean
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 06:54 AM

So I'll see you all at Gleneagles, then ?

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: The Curator
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 04:50 AM

We are in agreement brucie, now there's a first !

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 04:46 AM

Bravo Brucie!!

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 03:01 AM

The kids (mostly) who have been protesting G8 conferences need to be joined by us: adults. We have to put our bodies where we have put our philosophies. If there's another G8 in Canada, I am going, and with any luck I'll spend another night in jail, courtesy of the State. Talk the talk is one thing; walk the walk is another. If the economic shape of this world is not our concern and if we will let our childern and grandchildren inherit this mess, then we just ain't worth the time our parents spent making us. IMO.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 07:13 PM

Thankyou Curator,

I genuinely appreciate that. Now, as you say, how do we put the idea forward in a way that will make them listen?

Ideas please folks.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 06:55 PM

http://www.bobgeldof.info/happening.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 06:44 PM

Did you know Geldolf is an anagram of old gelf.

Might be of some significance to someone...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: s6k
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 09:16 AM

there is another concert in the eden project garden or something - featuring all African stars. it will be hosted by Yossou N'Dour and also features Salif Keita, an amazing guy, i have his albums, if you can get a hold of his song "Ana Na Ming" do so, it is one of the most beautiful things i have heard.

you can read more about this on the official live 8 website, and Geldof is also announcing 3 more Live 8 concerts, in Tokyo and 2 other places, bringing the number of concerts to, appropriately, 8

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: The Curator
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 07:53 AM

No I don't think the recent elections will see much in the line of change Guest. There has to be outside intervention from the developed world which is more than throwing a few deliveries of food at the problem and walking away. Don what you have come up with could work, excellent idea. Is any one out there in a position to put Don's idea to someone in a position of power ? If so please get moving.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: breezy
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 07:52 AM

Please check the spelling of Sir Bob's surname. Some of you chaps have been reading too much Tolkien.

Last night's programme on the Live aid gave us all a greater insight to the man.


True some 'pop' musicians, - they aint stars - begin to have ideas above their station , but ony due to the fact that many of us allow them that status by buying their often poorly written ,sung what they claim songs on overpriced Cds and albums after high powered marketing in th world of dross that is commercial, mostly throw away 'music. maybe thats why its ony the real musicians that shone through like Queen and Status, mac, Jaggs and Bowie and Dire streets!! [joke]

Curator is only a wind up merchant.Met better.

The question of black performers is an interesting one, its mostly all rapp and crap over here in the U K., so where will their appeal be to those with money to donate? I for one will be switching over if the music isnt good ole rock and roll

Simply the best

Oh and while I'm here.
Spotlight folk club at the Legion in St Albans tonight with
Andy Smythe

then next Friday 24th june

its Fran McGillivray and Mike Burke

at the Windward club
at the Duke of Marlborough
Holywell Hill
St Albans
www.folk4all.net

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 05:59 AM

O.K. so we're all in agreement that the debt will never be paid.

Now, why not suspend the debt, with very stringent conditions, e.g. The governments concerned must accept financial oversight, through the UN, for a specified period, or until specified targets are met.

Failure to comply would mean reinstatement of the debt, whereas compliance would, when all targets were achieved, be followed by a total write off.

This would ensure that the savings would be used to better the lot of the people, and of course, the West would benefit from the removal of need for further financial aid.

How does that sound to you guys?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 05:52 AM

Curator do you think the recent elections in Africa will bring about changes in how the relief aid is channeled?

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: The Curator
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 05:42 AM

Agreed brucie.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:14 PM

Countries are not going to develop if all they are developing for is to pay off debt. Governments that are not stable won't do that. They will 'get theirs' and screw their own peop[le. Happened (and happens) again and again. However, I don't see this as something that should be done by a 'country'--USA et.al., but maybe as something for the UN to tackle.

I hear on radio about two decades ago that a person buying a $45,000 house amortized over 20 years with interest at 10% could expect to pay $155,000 by the time the place was paid off. How can these 'third-world' countries expect to get out of debt with compound interest and no developed resources? And when companies like Halliburton go in they tend to take most of the money OUT of the country. Helluva problem and solutions will be difficult. But, I don't think paying off the debt is gonna happen. If the cash ain't there the cash ain't there.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: The Curator
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:00 PM

Yes I do see your point, no you did not post anything about throwing money at this problem, I asked you the question. I am glad to see we are back to the point of issue again. Taking money from this people you feel is wrong, that's fine with me. But did these countries ask for loans in the first place , answer yes. To wrap this up, these countries are turning into desert year by year. Food parcels are not the answer, this goes on year after year. We need a long term solution. And that means looking at the people responsible for the starving and that has to be their governments. These governments need to be brought to task by more powerful world leaders and told in not too many words get your act together or we will do it for you. Throwing food and medicine at the problem is not the answer. Yes it's needed, but it needs to arrive in a stable country.Don asked here what have I done to help anyone ? Answer 28 years as a paramedic. In my spare time I work with four self help groups in the area. Maybe it's you that needs to look at yourself. I rarely talk about what I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 03:57 PM

Let me see: Geldolf is getting slagged for trying to raise money for people who need it. And--well, there IS no and. So, what's the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 03:38 PM

When did I ever post anything that advocated throwing money. My wish is for the West to stop TAKING money from people who have none, by continuing to profit from the interest on loans set up for that purpose, and not for the benefit of those people.

Geldof does believe in using money to buy what will help them, and, whwther you agree with him or not, it's better than doing nothing.

What have you done lately to help anyone but yourself?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: C-flat
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 01:25 PM

I think Geldorf is sincere in his beliefs and actions. His language may be too direct for many but no-one can deny his ability to cut through red-tape and get his message out.
He is almost single-handedly responsible for instilling social awareness to a generation of young people following a period in popular culture that was in total opposition to the "Peace/Love" movement that preceded it.
I'd rather have Geldorfs' in-your-face brand of activism than the total apathy displayed by many politicians and, for me, it doesn't fall into the category of anarchy which is all too often without genuine aim or reason.
Look at the millions raised in the years after Live Aid. How many of those events would ever had taken place without Geldorfs' template?

C-flat.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: The Curator
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 12:44 PM

A long winded response from someone with little going in his life. Yes everyone loves your compassion, you really are an IT KIND OF GUY, keeping up to speed with everything trendy. Do you really think throwing money at this situation helps ? Thanks be to god your not in politics or a position of power. Please remain a nobody.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 11:27 AM

I'd rather be an asshole with genuine concern for his fellow man, than an opinionated nonentity who is more worried about the extra penny in the pound that might be added to his taxes.

As for the comment about Germany, I stand by that. Your contempt for the non white races shines clear in your every comment about their plight, especiaqlly as you seem not to have noticed that the real root cause is the rape of their resources by the white, civilised(?) races.

Adolf would have counted you an asset.

You don't need to be a member of any party to hold racist views.

And my state of mind is fine. You are just incapable of understanding the concept of compassion.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: The Curator
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:56 AM

Funny how assholes always refer to the 1933-45 period when they have nothing of merit to contribute. I have no affiliation to such a party and have never stated support of understanding of their beliefs.I go however give understanding to your post considering your current state of mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:54 AM

Amen

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:33 AM

Curator's views would certainly have been more at home in Germany circa 1933 - 1945, in addition to which his manner is rude, ignorant, and aggressive.

All of which gives us a good basis on which to weigh the likely merit of his opinions.

Thanks for that, Curator.

Go live your mean, introspective, self obsessed life, while better folk, like Geldof, Bono, et al continue to try to help humanity.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 07:31 PM

CLONES--neither of these are my posts.

"Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST,brucie - PM
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:57 AM

No Jenny, I need a lie down."

"Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST,brucie - PM
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:42 AM

All my posts here are beginning to sound like the outpourings of a hysterical nowadays aren't they?"



Thank you for your kind words there JennyO.

CLONES AND JOE

JUST IN CASE I AM HAVING A MEMORY MOMENT HERE, WOULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHICH URL I POSTED THOSE FROM? BY MESSAGE WOULD BE FINE. AFTER THAT I CAN TRACK THE PIECE OF SHIT. AND I WILL.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST,Dublin up
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:22 PM

Curator, he speaks with forked tongue, his view is in direct opposition to any republican I know,his attitude towards blacks would not go down well in his local cumann.

He is coming across as a mean, mean,man, he would be described here in Ireland as being as tight as a fishes ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:14 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST,brucie - PM
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:57 AM

No Jenny, I need a lie down."


The above is not my post.

CLONES: Note well, SVP.

The below is not my post.

"Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST,brucie - PM
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:42 AM

All my posts here are beginning to sound like the outpourings of a hysterical nowadays aren't they?"

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: The Curator
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:11 PM

The news report was about South Africa and how they supplied Mugabe's men with equipment. Do you understand that ? is it clear enough for you now ? British taxpayers money was spent in Ireland yes. We would have prefered if they took it and their soldiers back with them. I have never asked for or needed a british handout in my life, so your viewpoint is wasted on me.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 02:07 PM

Can the Curator explain what Mugabe's men are doing in South Africa?

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:59 AM

People must need someone to bash? Perhaps he drives home to some how selfishly they live their own lives? Rather than sit on his fat arse and drink fairtrade tea, Geldof puts his head above the parapet and has put more food in starving people's mouths than all his detractors.

I doubt if the EBAY fiasco bothered him much, it got his message on prime time tv again, no such thing as bad publicity they say. More power to his conscientious elbow.

Bono doesn't need the money or the glory either from being part of this. Selfless folk worry those who couldn't a toss about something unless it happens in their backyard.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:52 AM

No, brucie imitator, they aren't.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:36 AM

We have had a twisted Nazi-type join this forum. And people here are slagging Geldolf because he's tryin' to help people? Keriste. Give it a rest.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 10:57 AM

I am surprised you take this view Curator, as your country has been the main beneficiary of British taxpayers for centuries.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: The Curator
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 08:59 AM

My wisdom is there is enough debt in this country to be dealing with. Sort out your own backyard before you do onto others.Todays ITV lunchtime news showed film of South Africa and reported mugabes men were burning the food aid in front the villagers. Is your answer to keep sending it out in the hope the governments let some through ?These are the governments that sought their own independance.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 06:35 AM

People like Geldof will always draw flak from those (to quote Python) "with a vested interest in the status quo".

The truth is you need to be a gobshite to get attention in todays media, and Geldof has always done a lot more harm than good. Live Aid was a pivotal point in the thinking of the population here in the UK. It's taken a few years to sink in, but ordinary people now believe they can make a difference (even if the anti-war protests were ignored by Blair - he may just have learned his lesson), hence the excitement over these concerts.

Bono et al may not be the most articulate spokespeople for the cause but at least they are listened to and have been able to bend the ear of world leaders, and that cannot be bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: mooman
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:14 AM

With your great wisdom Curator why don't you do something for world poverty instead of slating Geldof. He's in a position to influence things and does.

moo (also an Irishman and who does not believe either Geldof or Bono bring shame on their nation)

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 03:39 AM

I have great admiration for Geldof! Here is a guy who has saved many lives already through his organising abilities. Here is a man who can draw attention to the plight of 'the world', particularly the third world. How can some of you knock this guy for achieving something?
How many of you either give something or do something for the third world....if everyone pulled together perhaps the world could be a fairer and much happier place for those who are not as privileged as you! I would rather be a latter day superhero to millions of Africans than the negative focus of a mudcat critic....which should Geldof be?
He did not try to bring Ebay down...just to cause a commotion where those tickets wee concerned, by overbidding for them...Yes it would have taken some sorting out...but bring the site down? NO WAY.
This whole event is getting the sort of publicity it needs in many good ways and some not so good..but hey folks....what are you doing to help?
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Enough of mouthpiece Geldolf
From: s6k
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 03:29 PM

VERY WELL SAID ALANABIT

and also well said BOAB

and to repeat - Geldof did NOT ask for people to "bring ebay down" he told people to get rid of the TICKETS that were on sale on there.

it just so happened that one method was entering £100,000,000 for them all to cause chaos.

not an unreasonable request, i dont think

anyway ebay have seen the light, which is good - can you believe, people are trying to get round the ban by selling pens, stationary etc with a "FREE GIFT" with them - live aid tickets. ebay are not amused. they will also be taken off now