BS: Calicos are Female

Subject: BS: Calicos are Female
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 02:19 PM

Are "russian blues" all male?

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 02:25 PM

well, "red-point siamese" are ...

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 02:28 PM

nope. Russian blues are a strain selected bor a particular dilution of pigment and solid coat colour.

Calico's are the result of a sex-linked gene that surpresses the black pigment. It resides on the non-homologous portion of the X chromosome - when paired with a y chromosome you get an orange/ginger/marmelade/red male.

In the females only one x chromosome is active; which one being active is selected very early on in the fetus. the patchwork pattern results from this, with some of the cells having the black pigment active and some inactive if the female has one each of the genes (orange and not-orange)

If the female has the orange gene on both x chromosomes then you get a ginger/orange/red/marmalede female.

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 02:29 PM

sorry daylia - you can have female red point siamese.

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 02:33 PM

ok ... that's right ... at one point I had a red-point male and a blue-point female ... and they produced TORTIE-POINT females. It was the tortie-points who were exclusively female ... if I'm remembering correctly!

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 02:37 PM

yup! that is correct.

Because the orange gene can be combined with various dilution genes you can get all sorts of interesting tortie combinations - blue-cream, cinnamon-cream

(sorry - did a major term paper on cat coat colour genetics too many years ago and the trivia stuck)

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 02:39 PM

A tortie-point siamese ... (wow, check out those ears!)

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 02:44 PM

Thanks.

All the many "blues" my wife and I know (including our own, "Moose") are male. We were just wondering if it was a coincidence or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: mack/misophist
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 09:03 PM

A few calicos are male but, so far, all have been sterile.

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 03:52 AM

Most whole colour cats are male. One cat of mine had a litter of 4, 2 of each. The males were both whole colours (grey and black) and the females were tortoiseshell and grey/orange/white. The mother was a grey and white mog with black and white ancestry; the father was the ubiquitous ginger tom.

It's not impossible, but it is rare to have a wholly ginger queen.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 09:42 AM

exactly - the father provided the "orange" gene, the mother provided a "non-orange" - therefore the females were both mixed; however the males got only their mothers non-orange x chromosomes, so were NOT ginger.

the only way a male can be an actual calico or tortie is if he is genetically abnormal - either a mosaic of xx/xy or multiple-xy (xxy or xxxy) All those conditions lead to male sterility.

An occasional "male" calico has on closer examination proven to be actually a freemartin - genetically female but due to developmental conditions in the womb, externaly male.

Cross a calico or torti female with a ginger tom and you will statistically get 1/4 female ginger, 1/4 male ginger, 1/4 male not orange, 1/4 female calico/torti.


Of course there are several competing definitions of both tortoiseshell and calico. Under one system tortoiseshell is the mixed condition with tabby markings present and calico the colours are solid. In the other system the mixed orange/not orange condition is tortoiseshell whether or not the markings are solid and the addition of white spotting makes it a "calico"

It gets even more complicated because genetically you cannot actual have a solid "orange" cat the gene that surpresses the markings in the darker pigment does not effect the orange pigments- the tabby markings are always present, but other modifiers can either widen or narrow the stripes so they are not apparent.

Another interesting point - virtually every colour mutation present in the house cat has been observed at some point in "large cats" - And let me tell you - a tortoiseshell tabby Tiger is something to behold!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 11:21 AM

What are you guys referring to as "ginger"?

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 11:26 AM

without the dark pigment. ie: what is known as "orange", "red", or "marmalade" as well as "ginger" Most common is orange and cream striped tabby pattern.

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 11:33 AM

see cat genetics

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 01:39 PM

Yup, torties are female and the colors can be fun. We had an all-over cream/blue/ginger tortie called Pootie, with a real pretty creamy sunburst face coming gradually through the tortie markings. She was always wanting to help closely on any hardware or tool project, and would patrol her area looking for ways to be helpful or, at least, watch from as closeup as possible. We called that her "Going on Pootie Duty" behavior.

Good Lord, I just realized where I must have caught that from! :~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 01:48 PM

It's not impossible, but it is rare to have a wholly ginger queen.

How do you explain Elton John, then?

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 01:59 PM

the exception that proves the rule?

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 02:33 PM

Elton John is a CAT???? I have this image of a cat strolling out of a closet, not a care in the world.... hm... makes sense....

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 04:22 PM

Elton John is ginger? I ain't checking HIS collar and cuffs!!!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 04:46 PM

No, Elton wasn't Ginger. I would have remembered that, though I highly favored Maryann.

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 07:58 PM

John gets the prize!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: JennyO
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 06:44 AM

I think Gilligan did too.

Subject: RE: BS: Calicos are Female
From: GUEST,Bernie
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 07:09 AM

Get Back, Honkey 'Cats!
Better get back to the woods
Well just quit these days
and your gingerneck ways
And oh ... the change is gonna do ya good...