BS: Clueless in Corporate America

Subject: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 10:29 PM

I work for a large financial services company. I have to work for a really big company because my son has a chronic illness and I need the best insurance there is. I can't stand it but today really took the cake. They constantly prattle on about how they "value their associates" blah blah blah. Well, recently they made a decision to do some reorganization that involved letting go about 1/4 of the people on my floor. (I wasn't one of them although sometimes I wish they'd just put me out of my misery). At the same time, there is a large meeting going on where they are bringing in some of our outside sales people. In order for the outside sales people to "team build" with the folks in the home office who support them, they arranged for a catered lunch and turned the third floor into a miniature "putt putt" golf course with corny decorations, little miniature sand traps, ect. Okay so this morning the people who were going to lose their jobs were called to a meeting and informed that they would be let go in 90 days. Some of them have been with the company for 30 years. Many of them were outright sobbing and you could see that others were holding back tears. Then lunch is brought up and the big "golf party" begins with people laughing and running around the floor with miniature golf clubs - a real festive occasion but not for the people who've just been let go. The Senior VP actually went over to the people who were glumly sitting at their desk trying not to cry and cheerily asked why they weren't participating in the putt putt golf party.   They just stared at him.   

Sorry, but I just had to vent. I really wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. One person told me that she wanted to say "Well I'll participate - give me one of those golf clubs so I can crack it over your head, you stupid ass".

I'm just feeling very cynical right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 10:53 PM

maryrrf,

Been there, & experienced similar disallusioning things like that.

Oh, what things we would do if we had a magic wand!

But in the mean time, try to do your best to do your best in the face of overwhelming stupidity, hardheartedness, and soulessness.

Positive vibrations!

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 07:06 AM

Noraml...

Corporate fat cats are clueless...

If they had to let 1/4 of their workers go a classier thing to do would to have had a luncheon *just* for them during which the CEO would get up and explain why this decsion was being made, offered a generous severence package, as opposed to having them have to *work* out their laqst 90 days *and* had some counselors lined up to help these folks deal with their loss and help them explore real life options...

That would have shown at least some class...

But them miniture golf and having for these folks have to attend a party where the non-laid-offs were having fun was classless and downright inhuman...

But it doesn't surprise me in this America...

Compassion isn't something that the monied class seems to possess...

My heart goes out to you, mary, and yer fellow workers, be they the ones laid off or not...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: mooman
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 07:13 AM

Please be assured that this is not a purely US phenomenon but is unfortunately alive and kicking in big corporates in Europe, Asia and elsewhere.

The most valuable resources a company has, the human ones, are very sadly today often the most expendable. Sadly also, many people are trapped in this situation.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: gnu
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 07:16 AM

Been there, despised that. Was at one where this guy's VP said he would be missed, especially since his work on one project was saving the company $12M per year. He did get a nice separation package and they bridged his pension... five years to go, but he didn't want to go. Just a game of numbers for the accountants.

Boy, did he ever tear a new asshole (new?) in that VP when he gave his farewells. I was one of the very few applauding at the end. (I had already applied for a package and was soon to leave.) Not that I blame those who didn't clap as I know they were scared for their jobs.

My sympathies as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Mooh
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 07:18 AM

Yeah, it reminds me of employers who'd fight over font size on a contract because of the cost of ink and paper, then celebrate the settlement with thousand dollar lunches. Card carrying union members don't get it because it doesn't make sense, not because of any principle beyond their comprehension.

Before self-employment I worked mostly in the public sector where I saw much public money spent in the way Mary describes. You can't get a box of paperclips but the boss gets a new private washroom. Grunt bodies are reduced (and workload increased) while head office has twice the bodies it used to have in spite of "effeciencies" and less market.

Figures.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 07:30 AM

Been there, participated in mass firings, fired upwards of 100 myself over the years, and in the end got made redundant in turn. All along the treatment of the people was exemplary (including in the case of my own redundancy), along the lines of the classy example that Bobert gave. (Proof: After I fired 65 people in 6 years in the Netherlands/Belgium, at my party for leaving the area 30 of those I had fired came with presents to wish me good luck).

But that's why I loved my 23 years with BP...

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Maryrrf
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 08:52 AM

I think sensitive management nowadays is very rare, although I did find out that at least one manager tried to persuade them not to have the "putt putt" event, or at least to do it in another location and not have a big fun celebration in front of people who had just been fired. The rest of the "big whigs" didn't think it was a problem. What gets me is all the rhetoric we get bombarded with about how much the company values its "associates". I'd almost prefer it if they said right out "Look you are all expendable clones and if we can find a way to get the job done cheaper we'll fire you, so get cracking, peons". It isn't like I don't know this is their real attitude, it's the hypocrisy that just burns me up.

And yes, I see a lot of expense reports, and also in my position I see a lot of high level salaries and bonuses. The sheer wastage boggles the mind. Examples include executive "pow wow's" that just have to be done at exclusive resorts, huge airline bills where the executives will go to any length to use the airline that they have the most frequent flyer miles on, etc. Yesterday after the "putt putt" session the salespeople and a select group of executives were whisked off to a dinner that cost over $8,000 - for 60 people. Actually when we get the final bill it will be more = that didn't include booze.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:09 AM

Insensitvie, uncommunicative fools.

Okay, I'm a boss. I'm responsible only to the Board of Trustees, who are responsible, through the City Council, only to the citizens. Effectively, I'm resposible only to the Board (unless I really, really, really screw up). Next year my budget looks to be better'n US $1.3 million.

There's a meeting in Sitka in August -- I'm paying my own way, so that two staff members can go. I've got a new lamp on my desk -- it goes well with the age of the building and I bought it myself. I'm buying new laser printers to replace the inkjets (the cost is in the cost-per-copy for b&w copies, which are 90% of what is printed) -- my laser printer is mid-nineties vintage, the new ones go to the staff.

What I'm saying is that the 25 or so other peopole are far more important to the running of the joint than I am. I don't have daily "customer contact," they do. They need the information and the best equipment; I can make do (and do).

I'm subject to "ocular migraines," which can be brought on by the flickering of a CRT terminal. I'd been getting them, so I called my Supervisors together, explained the problem, and asked if they or the staff would mind if I got a flat-panel monitor instead. It would be the first in an office (they had already been installed at two public desks, so that there would be a more inviting and open look). They agreed, so I ordered one. Then, because it worked so well for me, I very shortly thereafter began replacing the CRTs of everyone who uses a computer (not the public, though, just the staff).

You take care of your staff. Nobody else will. Leaders come last.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:25 AM

Dear Mr. Rapaire,

You are kindly invited to a putt putt party this Friday where announcements and refreshments will be provided.

Sincerely
Your "former" Board of Trustees.

PS BYOB (bring your own cardboard boxes)


......... : )

doing the right thing is rarely rewarded Rapaire, all kidding aside best of luck to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Maryrrf
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:30 AM

The other aspect of this that bothers me is that to postpone, or even have the celebration in a different place as opposed to smack dab in the work area of the affected people, would have cost NOTHING. It would have requied no financial expenditure or effort to make those people's sad day a little more bearable. I understand that sometimes layoffs are necessary. Companies have to remain competitive, organizations must change to meet changing conditions, yes I understand completely. (In this case I don't think what they're doing makes much sense, but I won't go into that). But it can and should be handled in a way that respects, as much as possible, the feelings of the people who are affected.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: JennyO
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:30 AM

Oh dear. I'm afraid this sort of thing happens all over - including in Australia. This reminds me of something that happened to me a number of years ago. The company I was working for was taken over by a much larger company in the same business. As they moved in, they started placing some of their own people into some of the higher management positions.

Meanwhile, my immediate boss who had hired me a couple of years previously, had been suffering from cancer for several months, had had to retire and was slowly dying. I remember him coming in one day just to say hello, and he looked grey and gaunt and had to walk with a stick. He was a lovely man, and very popular. Then he went into hospital where he died a few weeks later.

On the day of his funeral, literally about an hour later, nearly half of us were laid off. Disgusting - I couldn't believe the timing - left a really bad taste in the mouth. About a year later, I heard the place was closed down and villa units were built there.

When I left I only took one thing - his big cup and saucer. I used to serve him his tea - strong with milk and no sugar. Here's to you Mr Hainsworth, and may those bastards rot in hell!

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:42 AM

At Xerox your sacking was evident and emminent when a security guard came and stood behind your chair.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:42 AM

There was an article a couple years ago in the alumni magazine of my grad school. My wife read it and liked it so much that she made me read it (alumni magazines are all too often pitches for money). Here's basically what it said:

Appreciative Inquiry is about the coevolutionary search for the best in people, their organizations, and the relevant world around them. In its broadest focus, it involves systematic discovery of what gives "life" to a living system when it is most alive, most effective, and most constructively capable in economic, ecological, and human terms. AI involves, in a central way, the art and practice of asking questions that strengthen a system's capacity to apprehend, anticipate, and heighten positive potential. It centrally involves the mobilization of inquiry through the crafting of the "unconditional positive question" often-involving hundreds or sometimes thousands of people. In AI the arduous task of intervention gives way to the speed of imagination and innovation; instead of negation, criticism, and spiraling diagnosis, there is discovery, dream, and design. AI seeks, fundamentally, to build a constructive union between a whole people and the massive entirety of what people talk about as past and present capacities: achievements, assets, unexplored potentials, innovations, strengths, elevated thoughts, opportunities, benchmarks, high point moments, lived values, traditions, strategic competencies, stories, expressions of wisdom, insights into the deeper corporate spirit or soul-- and visions of valued and possible futures. Taking all of these together as a gestalt, AI deliberately, in everything it does, seeks to work from accounts of this "positive change core"—and it assumes that every living system has many untapped and rich and inspiring accounts of the positive. Link the energy of this core directly to any change agenda and changes never thought possible are suddenly and democratically mobilized.

Now, I wouldn't have thought much of it, only not only does it fit into what I believe and try to do, but it came out of the Weatherhead School of Management (weatherhead.case.edu), one of the best in the US and the world. If you want, you can learn more about Appreciative Inquire at appreciativeinquiry.cwru.edu. (Note: no www's on these last two URLS -- I'd link them, but for some reason I can't get the blickifier to work right now).

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: GUEST,kat coming in the back door
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 01:32 PM

excellent, Rapaire, both for the above and for your own managament. I had a boss like you, still stay in touch...LOVED working for him, even when he went on vacation and left his litter-box trained rabbits at the office for us to watch.:-)

Mary, I agree with you, totally. The timiing AND location was cruel and heartless...so removed from the real world it seems they had no idea of what effect they had on those they'd just let go or...didn't give a damnb.

For some comic relief, I highly recommend you rent the movie video called "Office Space." If you scroll down on this page you may read a fairly good description/review, but nothing does it justice...it has to be seen to fully appreciate it. ANY office worker can find some humour, etc. in it.

May you find some peace in all of this and all the best for your son's health.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 01:44 PM

Several things come to mind when I read this. First of all - does this company have any stockholders that need to know about this behavior ? Is it a publicly traded company ? My other thought is to look at the ages of the folks being fired. Was there any age discrimination taking place ? Or was it a case of "last hired - first fired"

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: GUEST,gnu
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 01:55 PM

Good on ya, Rap. The unfortunate part of the whole thing is what Donuel said... not always appreciated. The fact is that these assholes see someone like you as a threat to their wrongdoings.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: GUEST,Don Firth (through the 'Cat flap)
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 04:01 PM

Now that I'm retired, I think I've finally got the hang of it.

Except for a few short forays into the "9 to 5" milieu, for the first part of my working life I had the good fortune to be able to do it with music. For about ten years I made a marginal but thoroughly enjoyable living singing in various venues and giving guitar lessons. Then, in 1966, I went to work for Boeing, and I began to get a clue as to the vulnerabilities of working for someone other than myself.

That was the first of a number of jobs that eventually taught me the hard way to realize that, even though I might be employed by someone else, I had to keep in mind that I was actually working for myself. Some outfits make a big deal out of "company loyalty," but somehow they seem to forget that loyalty is a door that swings both ways. Through no fault of my own, I've been laid off from a whole batch of jobs—and no, it wasn't just me. Anywhere from half a dozen people (a couple of radio stations) to tens of thousands (Boeing, Ma Bell) wound up laid off at the same time. Standard business procedure:   RIF. "Reduction in force."

By the last time this sort of thing happened, I had achieved a certain age, so I decided "Screw it! I'm gonna retire so I can do what I really want to do: play music and write!"

As I look back on my work history, a comment that an old-time radio announcer once made to me sounds out like a clarion call:   He said, "Once you've got yourself a new job, the first thing you should do is update your resumé—and keep your bags packed!"

This ties in with the First Rule of Wing-Walking:   Never let go with one hand until you have a firm grip with the other.

In short, never settle in. Always, always, once you have a new job, start planning your next move. Keep your finger on the pulse of other jobs you might be interested in. Learn a new skill if need be. You may not actually have to make that next move, but being prepared assures you of two things. First, you won't be at a loss if the unexpected happens; you can immediately go into action. And second, you know that, since you do have an escape route, there is a limit to the amount of crap you need to take off your current employer.

Even if you're employed by someone else, be your own boss.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 05:07 PM

My youngest brother, terminated after 16 years and who has since gone form one job to another to another, once expressed it as, "You no longer have a career. You only have a job."

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: GUEST,PoppaGator
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 06:32 PM

Those wasteful self-serving fat cats are not only screwing their employees, the expenses they run up by granting each other obscene bonuses, perks, "golden parachutes," etc., are borne by their customers (buyers) and also diminish returns to their stockholders. Plus which, they usually avoid paying anywhere near a fair share of their taxes, indirectly raising the tax bill for all the rest of us.

There's no realistic hope that the government could or would do anything about this trend, but I have to wonder how much longer shareholders will stomach it. I realize that the average small stockholder has little or no voice at the annual meeting, but sooner or later mutual-fund managers and folks of that ilk will have to start questioning a system where high-level executives are so very disproportionately compensated, regardless of performance.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 07:41 PM

A good share of our friends and neighbors here are, or have been, in the auto plants. A few years ago the top auto executives earned about 40 times what a line worker got. Now they get about 400 times as much. The auto companies blame the union, and retiree benefits, for their financial straits, and are trying to cut retirement benefits that people worked for under contract all their lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: GUEST,Frogprince
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 10:08 PM

Last one was me

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 09:20 AM

A million dollars, a hundred million dollars -- just a couple of more zeroes. Zero means nothing, so it would have no effect on the bottom line or the stockholders.... And as for the workers, well, I live in a gated, patrolled community and the guards are armed....

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Maryrrf
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 10:40 AM

Well, the dust has settled, the party's over, and those affected are starting to think about how to get on with their lives. I hope they'll find better jobs. The company I work for is known for having periodic layoffs and "reorganizations" - they're always hiring as well as firing so some people may be able to apply for a different position and keep their seniority if they are lucky - of course those people have probably worked themselves up to a good salary and that may make it difficult if they think they can get somebody off the street more cheaply.   They basically eliminated two departments, so there wasn't any kind of age discrimination involved. I know this happens all over and not just in the company I work for and not just in the US. I can't help but think though, that if I lived in a country where health care wasn't so tied to one's job, I'd have more choices about where to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: DougR
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 01:30 AM

You probably would be better served looking for another job.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 10:10 AM

Yes, Doug R, you are right. My son has one more year until he reaches the age where I won't be able to carry him on my health insurance, and he'll also be finished college. At that point I'll get out of there as quickly as possible, assuming I find something else which I think would not be impossible even though I'll be 50. But insurance has always been such an issue - whenever I changed jobs there was always the fear that there would be some loophole in the policy that was offered that would exclude his treatments - I'd rather hang in there for the time being. I can see light at the end of the tunnel.

Oh, I might add. One of the "fat cats" was recently fired in a corporate reshuffling. Despite the fact that he was totally incompetent and inneffective and robbed the company blind on his expense accounts (I know, I worked for him.) his severance package included, among other things, a salary of $300,000 per year for the next three years with full health insurance for himself and his family. I don't know if they gave him, in addition to that, a "Golden Parachute" bonus but he may have received even more. The workers who were fired got a week's salary for every year they had worked.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 10:13 AM

:A million dollars, a hundred million dollars -- just a couple of more zeroes. Zero means nothing, so it would have no effect on the bottom line or the stockholders.... And as for the workers, well, I live in a gated, patrolled community and the guards are armed....

Is this the Rapaire wit we have all come to know and love?
or a guest imposter?

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 10:24 AM

I would guess it was the Rapaire wit - tongue-in-cheek. At least, that's how I read it at the time. We were all guests coming in the back door at that stage.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Peter T.
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 10:36 AM

It strikes me that in the end, corporate America is going to have to be the main lobby group to bring in universal medical care. It is completely insane to have your health care tied to your employment. Not to mention that it is hurting American international competitiveness.

Of course the final battle between the Health Insurance Lobbyists and the Corporate Universe Lobbyists will be something to see -- maybe Stephen Spielberg could try it as his next apocalyptic film.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 03:35 PM

maaryrrf,

"The workers who were fired got a week's salary for every year they had worked. "


That is better than I got- 23+ years got 4 weeks severence pay. Mission Systems Engineer IV for Honeywell.

I take satisfaction in the number of sanctions against them by the government in the last three years for management errors and contract improprieties.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 03:53 PM

There are some excellent managers in the work force--the quality of Rapaire--who have a true understanding that all this stuff is really about people (in the final analysis). Unfortunately, there ain't enough of 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 02:49 AM

Canadians are really just Americans with health insurance and ...

Subject: RE: BS: Clueless in Corporate America
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:44 AM

It was me. It was me being bitter about those who live off the sweat of those they supposedly supervise.

If I don't care, who will?

I'm off to a meeting in Alaska on the 29th (well, I've built a little vacation around it, to be honest). By paying my own meeting expenses (including transportation to Sitka) I can let two of those who work for me go (they have to pay registration and meals, we pay airfare and lodging). I don't have to do this, but then again I don't have to let anyone else attend either. And Sitka is a very nice place.

I also don't have to let three people attend a week-long workshop in Boise the first week of August. Or send anyone else to any of these sort of things.

But I do.

In return, they're doing a fantastic job -- not for me, but for the community.

I really don't care if I get my name in the paper again, or if I'm on television again, or if I'm a Conference speaker again. But I do care about the staff and the community (who, I'll point out, pay my salary via their taxes and thereby deserve the best I can give them).