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Tech: Edirol Portable Digital Recorder

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George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 13 Nov 06 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,Steve 19 Nov 06 - 03:11 PM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 19 Nov 06 - 06:56 PM
Don Firth 22 Nov 06 - 10:47 PM
The Fooles Troupe 23 Nov 06 - 04:41 AM
Don Firth 23 Nov 06 - 01:37 PM
JudyB 23 Nov 06 - 09:08 PM
Don Firth 24 Nov 06 - 12:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Tech: Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 09:44 AM

Some tutorials for Audacity:

Audacity Tutorial 1
Audacity Tutorial 2
Audacity Tutorial 3


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Subject: RE: Tech: Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 03:11 PM

First time dig rec and leaning toward Edirol R-9 for interviews and 17 piece big bands (trombone player).

I read someone had problems with R-9 and audacity. Anyone know of any? If so, workarounds?

Is there a legal way to get Cook Edit to work since Adobe took it over?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 06:56 PM

I haven't had any problems with using Audacity for the files created by the R09. Can you elaborate on these problems?

You might fine an old copy of Cool Edit '99 to d/l but for the most part, Audacity will do the same stuff, with a re-learning curve because of the different interface.

I don't do anything extensive, just edit the large files into small chunks and some normalizing or de-amplifying.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 10:47 PM

I would like to get knowledgeable opinions on some specifics, but since this general subject has already been discussed in about eleventy-fourteen threads, I thought I'd piggy-back on this one rather than risk general wrath by starting yet another one.

I've made a lot of tapes—practice tapes and informal tapes from song fests and such, most made on a small, portable cassette recorder—but I've never done a genuine "buy it at your local record store" record. I had a close brush or two with eastern record companies back in the early Sixties, but nothing ever came of it, and although there were a couple of record companies in the Puget Sound area, they were focused on local soft rock cum doo-wop groups (e.g., The Fleetwoods—no relation to Fleetwood Mac). Not only were they not interested in the local folk scene, they were downright hostile to it. So no joy there.

In Dave Van Ronk's memoir, The Mayor of MacDougal Street, he phrases it very neatly:   "In vinyl veritas."   Having a record out gives a singer a certain legitimacy. Among other things, it makes getting gigs a whole lot easier. Not that I'm seeking gigs. I consider myself essentially retired, and am open only to informal song fests, occasional folk festivals, and a house concert now and then.

Although I know two or three people locally with some pretty good home recording equipment who would, I'm pretty sure, be willing to work with me on cobbling together a CD or two (one person has already put out a few quite good CDs of local folks), I would actually prefer to do it on my own time and in my own way—on my own equipment.

"Now, here's my plan. . . ."
            —Shel Silverstein

What I have in mind is to record, over a period of time, just about every song I know and, also over time, put out as many CDs as I have in me. An ongoing project. I would like to get my own recording equipment and set up my own studio. Of necessity, I would have to do it on the cheap. But with digital recording these days, I understand that one can get pretty good quality sound at not too steep a cost.

I have just become acquainted with the Marantz PMD660. A friend has one. It's about the size of my old portable Panasonic cassette recorder, but it records on solid-state CompactFlash cards—like a digital camera—and you can download what you've recorded to a computer with a USB cord, just like a digital camera. The sound quality I heard coming back through the earphones was most impressive. And my friend has burned a few CDs from things he's recorded on it (using a Shure external mic) that sound very good to my ear. The Marantz lists for $649, but lots of places sell them for $499. I'd wince a bit, but if it will do the job, I could go that.

I've read a few reviews that have bad-mouthed it, but a thorough reading shows that those who didn't like it were relying on the in-built mics, which are okay, but hardly up to commercial quality for music. For good quality stuff, one really needs an external mic.

I've done some research on mics, and the consensus seems to be that large diaphragm condenser mics are generally preferred for voice and acoustical instruments. Since I will be recording just my voice and my acoustic guitar—no tubas, drums, Swiss bells, cannon shots, etc.—that sounds like the route to go. Dynamic mics, such as the Shure SM58, are perhaps more durable under hard use (like live performance, getting accidentally whacked with a drumstick, etc.), but since I would be using the condenser mic at home, that shouldn't be a problem. The SM58 is a very good mic, but from what I've read, condenser mics are generally preferred by record studios for vocals. And acoustic guitars.

Condenser mics can get pretty pricy, but gleaning info on good, relatively inexpensive condenser mics came up with the several possibilities. ADK, Behringer, Audio Technica, and Studio Projects all have large diaphragm condenser mics available for between $90 and $150, and although the caveat is always "you get what you pay for (usually)," the reviews on these look pretty good. Also, would I need two mics, one for voice and one for the guitar (preferable, I know), or would one mic actually suffice?

Rather than spending $500 on one of the big-name music editing programs, I note that there are a several available for download for from $35 to $50, including one (Audacity) that's free. The downloadable ones seem to have all or most of the features of the big-ticket ones, but here I know I'm in over my head.

I'm not looking to make a wad of money (although if one or more of them went platinum, I wouldn't burst into tears), I just want to get the songs down and get them out there, just in case someone might want to give them a listen. Actually, if I just broke even, I'd be tickled pink. Nor, for that matter, am I particularly interested in doing a lot of multiple dubs (singing harmony with myself or adding a second guitar track—although that could be kind of a snort), just voice and guitar.

So I figure the Marantz PMD660, a good but relatively inexpensive condenser mic, and one of the downloadable music editing programs, and I'm set to record my stuff, then burn a master CD. I would then seek help from that point on, but I think I know who to talk to about that.

Does this sound like a plan? Or am I cruising through dreamland?

Opinions? Suggestions?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Tech: Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 04:41 AM

You're going to need a PC to do some of teh shuffling around.

What have you got - Widows or Linux?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 01:37 PM

CPU Athlon 64 with 1 GB RAM, 80 GB hard drive, CD/DVD player/burner.

Windows XP

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Tech: Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
From: JudyB
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 09:08 PM

First question - can you balance your voice and guitar to get a mix you like by singing (or playing) louder or softer? When I record Charley with his banjo, I usually want the vocal mic a bit louder than the instrument mic. Moving the mics nearer or farther will do that a little, but also affect tonal quality. As long as you're only recording two tracks, you can probably achieve some control by recording one on the left channel and the other on the right, and then mixing them in your editing program - I think that should let you change the relative volumes of the two tracks before you merge them (though I've never tried Audacity). You probably could record with one mic as long as it had a nice wide pattern - but you'd have no way to change the relative volume later, and the mic would have to be far enough away that your voice and guitar sort of converge on it - which is beyond the range of accurate reproduction for some mics.

One possible concern - how good were the earphones you were using when you listened to the sound of the Marantz? Can your friend record you and burn it to CD so you can listen to it on your stereo and on the best speakers you can find and see if you still like how it sounds? Possibly more importantly (if you're not really used to hearing yourself on CD) - can your friend record some other singer/guitarist whose general style and vocal range is similar to yours while you are listening to him live, then make a CD of what he recorded so you can compare that to what you heard. (Not asking much, am I?) Actually, it might work if he recorded something playing on his stereo, as long as you heard both the original and what the recorder produced - the issue is how accurate the recorder is (and, I guess, if any inaccuracies are flattering or annoying, though I prefer adding effects afterwards, not while recording).

We started with decent stage mics, a computer with a decent sound card, and a small mixer to go between the mics and the computer. The mixer and the sound card probably came out to about what you'd pay for the Marantz; we already had the mics. First upgrade was to a studio-type condenser mic for vocals - and once I heard how good it made the banjo sound, I got a second one for that. If there's a chance you can try some of the mics you're interested in before buying, that's a great benefit. They all sound different, and which one is "better" is a very subjective thing.

Some music equipment places rent as well as sell, and might let you deduct some of the rental fee if you subsequently bought a mic from them - the danger being that rental mics may have been used fairly hard, and I don't know what the demand for rental of studio-type mics is. Do you know what mics the people you know with home studios have? If any are on your "possible" list, would they let you try them? Best thing (assuming you go with the Marantz) would be to have them record to that, so you could see how the two work together.

We've been recording for a couple of years now, and it's challenging - and I love it! Good luck with it, and let me know if you have any questions I might be able to answer.

All the best,
JudyB


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Subject: RE: Tech: Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 12:45 PM

Thanks a million, JudyB! All good stuff. You've given me a great deal to think about. And try.

I'll report back.

Don Firth


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