BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version

Subject: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: GUEST,Former member/current occassional drop-in
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 01:16 PM

Has anyone seen or heard about this St. Paul's Stations of the Cross controversy?

The paintings were done by a New York artist named Gwyneth Leech, and the militarist Xtians are "up in arms" (if you will pardon the war punning) over it, and have begun a depressingly predictable scorched earth campaign against the church.

And then there is this curious news item not receiving much notice either:

Anti-Bush painting hidden by US Attorney General

And then, of course, there is the refusal of the network affiliates' local stations to play the commercial with Cindy Sheehan.

Seems it is very easy to get everyone on the same page and create a conformity consensus regarding these sorts of conflicts.

Some of you might want to think about that, next time you have the impulse to crucify posters here with whom you disagree, like Shambles.

It was the vicious personal attacks upon Shambles by Joe and the clones that drove me off from this place. I drop by every now and then to visit, see what the old stomping ground is up to--but there is always some glaring example of the Mudcat majoritarian consensus that reminds me why you can never go home again.

I ducked in here today, just after reading about these censorship issues, and the personal and vicious attacks on decent people like Cindy Sheehan and the congregation of St. Paul's Church, who are genuinely and painfully trying to make sense of the madness of this world. So I was already in a contemplative mindset when I checked in here.

I got turned off to Mudcat around the same time as the Bush administration began building it's pro-war consensus. I felt that Mudcat's demonization of Shambles and others who disagreed with the views of the majority here was despicable and sickening, and very closely mirrored the macho, militant ways the militarist majoritarian consensus was formed to go to war here in the US.

Just like anti-war dissent is now being "policed" by right wing surrogates for the Bush administration who insist on maintaining their militarist majoritarian grip upon our national consensus, so too do Joe and clones and their majoritarian consensus.

Perhaps it is time some of the self-professed "spiritual" and "religious" Mudcatters, whether Christian or Buddhist, took a tour of the Stations of the Cross linked to above, and gave some thought to how they are sending the very same negative energy into the universe they accuse the Bushites of sending into the universe with their policing tactics of the borders between conformity and dissent.

The tone and ambiance here at Mudcat in recent years reminds me very much of the "it can't happen here" sort of head in the sand thinking.

Wake up and smell the blood on the virtual Mudcat floor from your "battles" to "save" Mudcat's "way of life" and your "loyal Mudcat friends" from dissenters like Shambles.

Is "liking Mudcat the way it is" really worth the cost your souls are paying to police the forum and keep it this way?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: GUEST,Former member
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 01:23 PM

Sorry, it was the CA attorney general, not the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 02:37 PM

It's only an internet forum, bozo.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 02:43 PM

" Wake up and smell the blood"
Someone call whine-one-one for this poor suck....

"worth the cost your souls are paying "
Show me one single scrap of evidence to support the existence of this fantasy you call 'soul'...

"Rev. Nicholas Lang, rector of Saint Paul's. "The reality is that war, no matter why it is being fought, has got to be viewed as tragic."
Unless it's the CHURCH that's waging the war... hypocrites!

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 03:21 PM

Internet forums are inhabited by the societies that create the forum here, and the forum of public opinion though, michaelr.

I trust I've hit a major Mudcat nerve, considering the immediate rude and vicious responses that, ironically enough, conveniently prove my point.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 03:25 PM

"responses that prove my point"

That yer a wiener? Ya... they do that indeed....

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: GUEST,Former member
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 03:37 PM

Good enough then, Clinton. You don't have to bother spending any time looking at the Stations paintings. Just keep shooting off your nasty mouth like all the other internet bullies who have taken up residence in this place.

I brought attention to the Stations of the Cross art, because I thought certain folks here could really appreciate it as art that transcends religious boundaries. I'm not Christian, but I do appreciate the power of the art in both a Christian and non-religious context. It made me think. A lot. Before I dropped in here for visit after a long while away, and decided to try and make the point that this forum isn't isolated and separate from the greater society (as the majority here insists it is), but a mirror of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 04:16 PM

*********thread drift************

I go walking every evening on the grounds of an old Catholic convent and school. One sidewalk has concrete pillars of "pictures" or "etchings" of the stations of the cross. Not being Catholic, this was new to me, and quite fascinating. After seeing the pictures in the link, I'll examine these more closely tonight, maybe even learn something.

********************************

Now, back to the usual Mudcat slugfest...

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: GUEST,Former member
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 04:35 PM

No thread drift, Mary. You get it. The historic religious point of the stations artwork is to get people to meditate upon what is known as The Passion--Christ's suffering on his final walk to his death.

One need not be Christian or Catholic (in fact, this church is Episcopal) to be deeply troubled by the view of humankind they represent. Humans are, after all, pretty hideous in many respects, especially when it comes to their dogma, be it Christian or Mudcat dogma.

My point wasn't to start a slugfest. It was to start a conversation that should trouble people's calm waters. Artwork of this sort isn't made as entertainment, or to comfort.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: GUEST,Former member
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 04:46 PM

Looking at the Stations paintings also made me think about the ass who drove through the crosses at Camp Casey in Crawford, and the neighbor who was shooting off his rifle to intimidate camp members. Making the choice to paint the soldiers holding rifles was a powerful one, IMO. And the paintings of the women for the final station and the one where she depicts the mothers of Darfur very much resonate with the whole mothers/children vibe of the Camp Casey protests.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 07:57 PM

whatever your position on world peace, US politics, religion and other 'issues' are, they are simply not comparable to the situation with Shambles.

That is not a BIG moral or social issue; it is an internal debate about how to run the forum where issues are debated. Shambles has carried on a multi-year campaign to have management do things his way, and many, many members have tried to reason, explain and otherwise plead with him to just let it alone.

If he has gotten some...ummm...'pointed' remarks, it is ONLY about that one topic. Roger can be interesting and intelligent when he talks about music and a few other things, but most of his energy seems go into tilting at windmills with an attitude I would describe as "misplaced righteous indignation".

The Mudcat will be run like management WANTS it run, and that should not BE an issue. "Vicious personal attacks" is a BIG exaggeration. Pointed, sarcastic, yes....vicious? no......

sorry ex-member...you will get little sympathy here...In a group of several hundred members, don't you wonder why you and Shambles are in such a minority?

aww...never mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: mack/misophist
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 09:19 PM

If there's anything objectionable about the pictures, it's that they don't appear to be very good. Other than that...

Subject: RE: BS: Peace on Earth: Remix Version
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 11:31 PM

But isn't that sort of like saying there isn't anything very objectionable about Cindy Sheehan, except she isn't very pretty and her husband can't stand her?

Rather misses the point, conveniently.