BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day

Subject: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 08:27 AM

I bought this tiny root at Home 'Despot' that pictured exotic red flowers on a vine that supposedly came from Nepal.
Well, I planted it and apparently got the male version with tiny white flowers. It has grown at an amazing rate of over 100 feet per day.

What is wierd is that it looks identical to Cannabis Indica in its stem , leaves and buds. The only difference is that it is a vine with microscopic clinging hairs on the stem and an astounding rate of growth.

I don't have the original packet or info and am wondering what the hell this thing is. I even saw it advertised on the Home Shopping Network back in May.

Anyone with a knowledge of root grafting might be interested for other reasons.

PS

I have plenty of pictures of this 3,000 ft. monster* I will post later today.
This you gotta see, along with the miniature Hurricaines I photographed in my backyard over the hot pool water.


* stem length totals

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: snarky
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 10:15 AM

At that growth rate the durn thing is guaranteed to be invasive! Watch out! It might engulf your house!

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 10:21 AM

Hey Jack!

Watch out for the Giant!

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 10:22 AM

He's behind you!

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 10:40 AM

Oh no he isn't!

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 11:57 AM

Sounds like the plot in a 1950's horror film from Hammer or RKO. Keep a close eye on that plant, Donuel. DON'T fall asleep! (grin)

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 12:03 PM

It's a Triffid

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: GUEST,insomniac 2.17 am
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 12:21 PM

It isn't Nepalicas Voracionious, by any chance, is it? If so, pick a bunch, hang from washing line to dry (on hot day)and smoke. you will be surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 12:33 PM

Do you mean 100 ft a day per stem, or in total? I know of a few spp that can, under ideal conditions put about a foot a day on some of their growing tips.

If it is either of these two,
himalayan Balsam
japanese knotweed.
you have work to do right now. The links indentify them, and tell you how to deal with them. Follow their advice to the letter. If it says use herbicides, then do so. Do not worry about any potential damage to the ecosystem from the hebicides. Unless you get rid of these highly invasive species, there won't be an ecosystem left. They're introduced spp, and so nothing in europe or america really uses them for food or habitat, and as they have no controls, they out-compete native plants, and spread, and carry on spreading. This is bad news.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 12:37 PM

Man Triffids came out when I was a kid and scared my parents as much as me.

the monster

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/mon.JPG


Front gate
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/mon1.JPG

buds
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/mon2.JPG


front gate detail
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/mon3.JPG



morning tornados
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/mon4.JPG

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 12:45 PM

Does it look like Paederia foetida?

Possibly also Beaumontia murtonii?

Possibly the two most commonly associated with "Nepal" in recent botanical notes.

John

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 01:19 PM

Days of google searches have turned up nothing that looks like it.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 01:30 PM

I've been poking around. Nothing yet, but check out the look and the name of the second vine on this page. Asian "pigeonwings" my ass--it looks just like what the scientific name suggests. (I'm glad some fellow was paying attention!)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Dani
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 01:39 PM

Try Davesgarden.com

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 01:41 PM

Don,

You'll have to get a closeup photo of the flower or draw a very good likeness (a botanical sort of drawing) in order for me to use a key to identify the family. From there you can probably track it down.

You need to notice the color and number of petals, sepals, pistil, stamen, if the ovary is above where the stamen meets the stem or below (like in the rose), if the flower is symetrical (like a daisy) or not (like an orchid or salvia, etc). Are the leaves alternate or opposite on the stem? Are the leaves and stem bare or do they have hairs?

That should help.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 01:53 PM

Sounds like kudzu to me.
Look at these photos and take action before it's too late.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: TJO
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:01 PM

Donuel,

I agree with Bunnahabhain. This is not simply a matter for academic interest. Go to any parkland near D.C. and check out how many trees are covered by kudzu and dying. Then google the sad story of how kudzu was introduced here. You apparently have an incredibly invasive plant, whatever it is. If it flowers and goes to seed... it's too late to do anything. Take as many pictures as you want and then GET RID OF IT.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:21 PM

EXTREME CLOSE UPS

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/mon5.JPG



http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/mon6.JPG



http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/mon7.JPG


http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/mon8.JPG


http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/mon9.JPG


if you have ever seen cannibis, this plant obeys the exact same branching rules, branch grooves and color, leaf shapes and seperate male and female flowering habits.
Except it is a gigantic vine.

These male flowers have no discernable odor.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:27 PM

Its not kudzu. I know kudzu, kudzu was a Friend of mine, but this seven lobed leaf monster is no kudzu.

Since there is no female plant here there will be no seeds. It may return from the root however but I am not sure. It said to wait until the soil was 50 F before planting the bulb like root.

If one were to rub these vine stems quickly accross exposed skin it will remove at least 2 layes of skin in a very bad scrape that will result in bleeding.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Janie
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:27 PM

Don't think it's kudzu from what I can tell about the leaves. But...do you have a very clear close-up of the leaf--can't see enough detail to tell if it is palmate or simply very deeply notched, or even better, as SRS suggested, a good botanical sketch. Also, from the backlighting can not tell the color of the bud. What color and shape are buds and blooms? When does it bloom? Flower stems--are they in the leaf axils or terminal buds? Are just the stems hairy or are the leaves also. Odor or aroma when leaves are crushed?

Alan C. had e-mailed me about a vine recently that he described very similarly. Perhaps he has managed to key it out by now.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:40 PM

The odor is green grass
The bloom spikes branch out from leaf axils and make terminal buds.
The leaf is hairy to the touch but not the naked eye.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: MMario
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:41 PM

sounds like an ornamental hop.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:43 PM

Looks to me as though you have a serious case of hops (humulus lupulus). In fact, this looks and sounds so much like the way hops behave that I can't think why no one's suggested it yet. It's not like this community doesn't know its beer...(or so I had supposed 'til now).

There are a gazillion hop-centric sites, but here's one with a good leaf photo for you: http://realbeer.com/hops/ The cones (flowers) don't look quite the same as yours, but then I don't know what the cones look like when they're in bud.

Read an anecodote about hops in August here: http://pweb.netcom.com/~dluzanp/aug.htm

This one has a pretty good picture of hops covering the earth: http://nepenthes.lycaeum.org/Plants/Humulus/lupulus.html

Anyway, assuming it's hops, it does die back to the ground in the winter, and as far as I know it is not invasive despite its frenzied summer growing habits. Learn to brew!

Claire

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:45 PM

Ack! Mmario, you beat me to it!

Did you ever try the Greek fish stew? (Good with beer and to eat out in the garden, so not EXACTLY thread drift...)

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: MMario
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:56 PM

not yet.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:58 PM

So this is an asiatic hops? That makes since hops is related to cannabis. Too bad this one doesn't make cones the way the Claire Brown links speak of.

Getting rid of it this fall will require much protection since the stems will cut skin in a heartbeat.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: MMario
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 03:04 PM

male hops don't cone.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 03:09 PM

Damn males

Home Depot ripped me off again.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 03:12 PM

Yes, there is an invasive Japanese hops species: humulus japonicus. Go here for info: http://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/esadocs/Humujapo.html

Here's a paste from the info page linked to from that page. (I am sorry, my blickifier is not cooperating today, hence the URLs.) Sounds like your plant:

The genus Humulus (Cannabidaceae) contains two species. Both species are dioecious (that is, male and female plants exist). Humulus lupulus is the Hop plant used in beer manufacture. Although it is a sturdy, perennial, vining species it is of little horticultural value. In contrast, Humulus japonicus is known to gardeners as an attractive annual (or occasionally weakly perennial) vine with variegated forms being common. Humulus japonicus does not contain the various "lupulin" compounds that are sought by brewers. It is a very fast grower.
Humulus japonicus vines are covered with hooked hairs which makes working with them painful. Dermatitis and blistering may occur with H. lupulus and possibly H. japonicus, so it is best to use appropriate protection (gloves, etc.) when working with these plants.
Control
Being desirable gardening and commercial species, not much information is available on the control of these species. However, the following control plans are recommended.
Mechanical: If H. japonicus is acting as an annual, pulling the plants any time of the year should be effective. The plants should be pulled before they set seed (they flower August–September). When pulling the plants, attempt to remove as much of the rootstock as possible. It is likely that resprouts could occur from both the rootstock and the bines (the leafy portion of the plant), so the pulled plants should be removed or left where they cannot reroot. If the plants are acting as perennials, experiment with pulling either during May–June when the rootstock is most exhausted and small, or just prior to flowering when the rootstock should be plump and robust.
Herbicides: When farmers wish to eradicate H. lupulus, they spray with glyphosate (i.e., Roundup). Both Dr. Alfred Haunold (USDA Hops Research Geneticist, Corvallis Oregon) and the horticulturists at Legendary Ethnobotanical Resources (Homestead, Florida) agree that glyphosate should be deadly against H. japonicus. If the plant is behaving as an annual, spot applications of glyphosate any time during the year (prior to flowering) should damage the plant enough so it will not be able to flower and set seed. If it is growing as a perennial, the best time to apply glyphosate would be when the rootstock is most rapidly accumulating carbohydrates, that is July–September. Applying glyphosate earlier in the year would not be effective as it would not be translocated into the rootstock.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 04:25 PM

Thank you for the detailed explanation and research.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 04:49 PM

I concur with MMario and ClaireBear. I'd tracked it as far as the Cannabinaceae family and was going to ask if they are fragrant or have milky juice or not to narrow it down further. The answer (if this is hops) would be that it has no milky juice, and it may be aromatic. This from my Taxonomy of Flowering Plants, Porter, W.H. Freeman & Co, San Franciso. It's a really old book but the basic information gets me on the right track.

So, you have an ornamental hop with no commercial application. I'd suggest that Virginia creeper might be a little easier on your hands though it will climb as much as the hop (not as fast). It's probably as difficult to get rid of. And here is more on hops, in this case, from the Yakima Valley in Washington State.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 07:04 PM

And of course, mate, if you have a plant as vicious when brushed against as you describe draped all over your front gate, either you don't want visitors, or you have good insurance... :~)

Subject: RE: BS: My weird plant - 100 ft. a day
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 07:08 PM

Another thought - if it is as invasive and destructive as noted, then perhaps there is some Govt Dept somewhere you might want to inform to stop the damn thing being sold?

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Janie
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 09:58 PM

I considered hops looking at the picture--Dani has one trellised on her porch--but it's a puny little thing. Probably a different species. I had no idea they could be rampant like that.

And thanks, ClaireBear for the education!

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 10:02 PM

Look at the photos of the hop crops planted in Washington east of the Cascades. Those supports are very tall.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Alice
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 10:24 PM

Invasive non-native plant... kill it and get Home Depot to stop selling it.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Allan C.
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:30 PM

Yeppers, that's the same plant that has, shall we say, thrived? so proficiently in my garden. How it got there, I sure don't know. My guess is that it was mixed in with some other seeds I planted.

Just about the time I began to become concerned at its rapid growth, I wrote Janie with hopes that she might recognize it and advise me. Before I got around to sending her a photo, Janie pointed out that Donuel complained of a similar affliction.

The garden was essentially created from "scratch" this year. I kept all seed packets. I will say this much about this vine: It most certainly filled in all of the empty spots in my garden. Also, it responds well to pruning except if you consider that this is necessary every three or four days in order to keep it from climbing to places it shouldn't. On the other hand, I have seen no evidence that it is strangling other plants it climbs.

I had hoped that it would produce a showy flower or something to better justify its existence; but this was certainly not the case. The flowers are tiny and unremarkable.

Although the hairy stem quite readily grabs clothing or anything else it contacts (almost as well as Velcro!) I have not noticed any skin discomfort, itching, or other after-effects from having brushed up against or having handled the vines.

I had planned to rip it all out before it went to seed; but the vines spit out zillions of seeds while I was on vacation. I'm sure I'll see it again next year; but will be more ready to keep it abated next time.

Donuel, I extend my sympathies.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 01:56 PM

One good perpendicular rub from a stem will give you a nasty brush burn Allan.
I bet if we had the female version, the large showy red exotic flowers would be quite gratifying.

How could you possibly have seeds? It is a male plant. Maybe you just see the litter from all the male flowers and thought they were seeds.

Subject: RE: BS: My wierd plant - 100 ft. a day
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 05:02 PM

If it's as invasive as you say, pray they were not seeds. If they were, you have only one sensible solution.

Move house.