BS: More Spitfire warnings

Subject: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: skipy
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 05:44 PM

Spitfires are old now, I'm not saying that they are not well maintained, but they could fall out of the sky soon!
The Lancaster is also old, I know I have flown on it! (PA 474)!
That could fall out of the sky soon aswell!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 05:53 PM

There's less than 10 Spitfires left... 2 got written off a couple of years ago (along with one of the owners) so there's probably only about 5 or 6 left.

Saw 2 fly past my office on the day they buried the Queen Mother... buggers didn't even give us a day off for it!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: skipy
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 05:56 PM

Why should you have a day off for a fly past?
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: GUEST,Fullerton
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 05:58 PM

A good freind of mine flew lancasters, he gets tired of people going all dewey eyed about 'em. He always refers to them as " A pain in the arse... fxxxin' deathtraps."

AFTER the war there was 20% annual mortality rate on Lancasters.

Still, on the 3 or 4 occasions when i've heard four merlins - It sends a shiver down my spine like Leon Rowsome was in the room.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: skipy
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 06:06 PM

Strange then that the last one we have has managed to keep going so long!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 06:12 PM

not a funny thread, skipy...I get the reference, and it's bit clever, but......

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 06:14 PM

I know all about Hurricanes and Spitfires. If this thread is supposed to be funny, please see the "hurricane warning" thread and sober up.

New Orleans has suffered "unimaginable devastation" (CNN). It is "no longer a city" (Fox).

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: skipy
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 06:43 PM

Please see life! thats not funny at all, from car accidents to falling down stairs to genicide to being bitten by spiders, we are here but a while, non of us know what will happen even in the next second, people having a coffee before bed in Lockerby did not expect a 747 through the roof! So lighten up & live every second for it might be your last! I truly hope that is not the case as you are a fine community to talk to. However to often we read "obit threads" for people we thought had a lot of time left!
Hope you read your replies tommorrow, but who knows!
Skipy - not pissed! but maybe a little pissed off!
The bell tolls

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 06:43 PM

Skipy, I usually get a chuckle from (and even sometimes post to) your copycat threads, but this one is in incredibly poor taste. America's most unique city is in absolute ruins. There are probably hundreds of people dead and tens of thousands homeless (quite possibly including one of our own Mudcatters). Dire economic impact for the entire country is almost a dead certainty. And you have to make a joke out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: skipy
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 06:52 PM

Bee, I think you where probably writing at the same time as me, you are so wrong, I was not making a joke of it, just an observation, however if I have upset anyone rest assured that was not my intension.
I do understand the impact of these sort of events, but they happen all the time on a scale like this or a much smaller scale, but life goes on & without humour & comment there is no life. We have all heard & many of us told "bad taste" jokes & reads them & sent them from our mobiles (I do not have have one as it happens)so most people cannot afford to be sanctomonious, as most have committed this percieved crime probalbly more than once.
If I have upset anyone, then I will leave this forum forever.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 06:57 PM

Do you make Holocaust jokes too? While the bodies are burning?

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: skipy
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 06:59 PM

Guy who thinks,
You really don't know me at all.
But you think you do, don't you!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 07:02 PM

"..leave this forum forever."

a simple acknowlgement and quietly seeing the point would be sufficient.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: skipy
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 07:08 PM

My acknowlgement was that I did say that I had no desire to upset anyone at all, however I did say I would leave forever, so I must do that now.
It has been good in here & I truly wish you ALL well.
As an athiest may your gods smile on you.
Goodbye Skipy (not the way I wanted to leave)

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 07:35 PM

One's job in life, Skipy, is not pleasing other people. It is being true to oneself as best one can.

The trouble with trying to please other people is...it's impossible to ever manage it perfectly.

I say this because I have, for example, a Mother who has spent so much of her energies attempting (fruitlessly) to please other people that she has basically wasted about 95% of her available life energy on it...and to utterly no purpose! She would have probably pleased them just as much (or even more) if she hadn't bothered with that particular obsession, but just been herself for God's sake!

To avoid "upsetting anyone" is impossible. I know, I've tried. ;-) If you do something, guess what? Someone doesn't like it. If you do something different, someone else doesn't like it. If you do absolutely NOTHING at all, someone else doesn't like THAT! It's hopeless.

The best one can do is simply try to "do unto others as one would like them to do unto you" or to put it another way....avoid doing to others what would hurt you.

Now, in this case, you happened, innocently, to start a thread which upset certain people...and from their point of view, that's totally understandable...while from your point of view, you didn't mean to upset anyone.

Okay, fine. It's nothing to leave the forum over.

I repeat: You are not living your life in ORDER to please other people. That's not the purpose of life. Its purposes are to learn, to grow in understanding, to communicate, and to love.

You also must not necessarily feel required to do "what you said you would do", as if the words bound you in some way. That kind of thinking sent thousands of young Japanese soldiers and airmen to bloody death in World War II, totally unnecessarily.

Who do you think this sort of self-sacrifice will please? And why should it be necessary? You're not guilty of anything, nor are you here to meet anyone's expectations. Nor are any of us.

But if you simply don't feel comfortable here now...well, then, by all means leave. That's your business, after all.

Consider this: If everyone here who ever upset anyone else was by that token bound by honor to LEAVE this forum...you know how many people would still be here? None, that's what I figure. Well, maybe one or two who almost never post here. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 07:52 PM

Skipy - some Fooleish Life Style Advice -

Ignore the Wankers.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 07:55 PM

LH, if being "true to oneself" means stupidly offending people when you feel like it, it's something I can't endorse. I could have laughed the thread off, but that would have only encouraged the notion that laughs trumps decency. I'm being true to myself by objecting.

LTS, I'm surprised at you.

Skipy, if you've learned the importance of tact in the midst of tragedy, I'm more than satisfied. But only if.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 08:08 PM

No, no, you miss my point, Guy Who Thinks...

Deliberately offending people is stupid. To deliberately offend is to consciously be hurtful, right? I don't think that was Skipy's intention. The fact that he is willing to leave the forum if he "upset anyone" makes it totally obvious that it was not his intention.

Yes, you are being true to yourself by objecting. Absolutely! But...he didn't do anything wrong, and you are not doing anything wrong by objecting to what he did. He just happened to do something you don't like, that's all, but it was not due to wrongful intention on his part. If you object to it, fine. He should've have to leave the forum because of it, should he? (not that I'm suggesting YOU want him to...but he seems to feel he should).

Now, your name: "Guy Who Thinks" ...could easily be taken as an insult to just about everybody here on this forum, since it seems to imply (or could certainly be taken to imply) that the rest of us don't think! ;-) If one was paranoid, one would think that was what it meant.

I could be insulted by that, and raise hell about it, couldn't I? I could get REALLY mad about it. ;-) But I'm not insulted by it in the least. I don't take it personally. I don't mind. It doesn't matter. I guess it might matter to somebody, so I'll let them get upset if they wish to, and save myself the emotional drama.

Get my point?

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 08:41 PM

I tried to make a gentle point of it all....I never thought skipy meant ill by his silly post, but this is not the first time he has made jokes in bad taste, and he NEEDED to see why....though now, I'm not sure that he would ever really get the point. *sigh

It's all really too bad that a dim understanding and a thin skin have to go together....makes me sad.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 08:49 PM

I get your point, LH. But as annoying as the idea of the thread itself is the idea that anyone who'd object to it is just a grouch or a wanker. Without tact and proportion, society doesn't work. As I know you know.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 09:01 PM

For sure, GWT. Tact definitely helps. I too am annoyed by tactless people...but it annoys me more in real life than on the Net. I guess my expectations of people aren't as high on the Net (or the risks aren't as great!).

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 09:13 PM

The problem is, you see, that Bush and his ilk (it's that word again!) consider everybody else who does not ascribe to their philosophy as Wankers.

That's why Iraq === Vietnam Take 2,

and the US populace have to pay the price.

One might be tempted to say that Katrina is God's Punishment - indeed that's the way The Old Testament Prophets carried on. I am bemused that the best Terrorist Target to seriously hurt the US economy is to disrupt the ports that move about 40% of the US export/import trade. Does that make God (or Nature if you prefer) the Supreme Terrorist? And just what the hell could you do about it if that were the case?

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Cobble
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 09:50 PM

That's why Iraq === Vietnam Take 2,

and the US populace have to pay the price.

Forgotten another country.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 04:42 AM

"Guy who thinks..." What did I do? I just responded to a thread title that happened to be near the top and on a subject I know a little about... assuming it was Spitfire the plane and not Spitfire the beer, a subject I know MORE than a little about.

And if you think you know me so well that you are suprised at me... well all I can say is that you really don't know me at all. If your employers' mother died, you'd expect the firm to close for the funeral wouldn't you?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:29 AM

How is this thread making fun at the tragedy in New Orleans? Making fun at the term 'Hurricane warning' certainly. Until Guy Who Thinks brought up the damage to New Orleans there was not the slightest suggestion of it. This smacks seriously of the kind of mentality that would ban blackboards because they may cause offence.

LH - Nicely put. I think Ricky Nelson summarised it best in song -
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:39 AM

Until Guy Who Thinks brought up the damage to New Orleans there was not the slightest suggestion of it.

There was Dave but perhaps you didn't take in Bill D's comments.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 07:09 AM

This has not been the first Spitfire thread - no one twigged before that there was any surreptitious motive. it is normal for the normal human mind ot be triggered into associative thought paths that are not directly related to to current semantics.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 07:20 AM

Yes it was tasteless, but personally I'd rather meet Skipy for the first time than some of the po faced buggers who met his lapse of taste with terminal smug sanctimoniousness.
Giok ;~(

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 07:21 AM

Sorry Jon - you are right. I'll rephrase. Until GWT brought it up no-one had mentioned New Orleans.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 09:08 AM

Silly.
A guy who names himself a thinker I suspect of not thinking at least. While skipy and LTS discussed Spitfires and Lancasters he surprisingly introduces a Hurricane and yammers about New Orleans.
Does he think he is in the right thread?
Wrong thought, methinks. Oh, those political correct ones!

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: BaldEagle2
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 09:35 AM

There used to be a Spitfire at the entrance to RAF Hospital Ely - an aircraft that would never fly again, and was therefore pressed into service as a Gate Guard.

The plane was loaned to Harry Saltzman for the making of the film "Battle of Britain" (rather dodgy acting but some good flying sequences IMHO).

Without asking or telling anyone ahead of time, Harry had that aircraft. and many others, blown to pieces during the sequences that showed the Luftwaffe bombing British airfields.

The RAF brass were right royally pissed-off, but could very little about it.   The loaned aircraft were lost forever.

Which is why there are so few Spitfires now acting as Gate Guards for military bases in the U.K.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: jets
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 04:00 PM

Thank god some one finaly explained why so many pople were upset.
First we were talking about aircraft then we were upset about the hurricane and poor taste.
I first thought that it was because of my age that I had lost the gist of the comments. Thank god I have not lost all of my sense of undestanding but had stumbled upon a rant of :hollier then thou:.
                                                   Joe T

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: kendall
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:47 AM

Sure it's too soon to make jokes about this tragedy, but surely it's not a hanging offense?
Tragedy plus time equals comedy. TIME being the key word. For example, "Other than that, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln."?

Whenever disaster strikes anywhere in the world, the USA is first on the scene to help with massive amounts of aid to the striken. So, where is the rest of the world?

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:49 AM

I remember being taken to an airshow by my uncle in 1968. At that time there were probably fewer WW2 British comabt aircraft flying than there is now.

There are only as many as there are in the UK because during the 80s a lot of baby boomers got rich and started buying them and restoring them to flying condition. Yes, they are a part of history and evocative of an earlier, heroic time but apart from the few aircraft maintained by the armed forces (including the Lancaster) they are now also rich men's toys. Rather sad, really.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:01 AM

My father was a wartime Lancaster rear gunner (Tail End Charlie), and is still alive to tell the tale - 83 next birthday!

A few of his aircrew are still around, too.

Sad to say, I saw a Spitfire and its pilot written off at the Woodford Air Show (Cheshire, UK) in, I think, 1997 (or thereabouts). Pilot error - he was trying a loop and was too low. He ploughed straight into the runway.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 05:07 PM

That was probably one of the husband & wife team that flew a matched pair of Spits in shows.... there were 7 left before that accident.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:58 PM

Boy, I would hate to see that, Bernard. I love those old airplanes, and have been building models of them all my life.

Here's one I'd like to see flying...the Macchi 202 Folgore. Hell of a nice looking fighter plane. Also, the Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien of the JAAF.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 07:59 PM

"Whenever disaster strikes anywhere in the world, the USA is first on the scene to help with massive amounts of aid to the stricken. So, where is the rest of the world? "

They weren't wanted for Iraq, why would they be needed now? [;~E|

~~~~~~~~~
Now back to the original poster's concept of this thread. And BTW, have all you thread drifters PMed the original creator of this thread and asked his permission to distort the thrust of his original post? Look, we have to maintain standards here - I don't think there should be only one person harping on about important things like that!

Last Night, The ABC (Aus) showed the first part of a British Series called "Spitfire Ace", in which 4 young pilots are given a chance to fly a real Spitfire after being given 9 hours Battle Training, about equivalent to what many young guys were given when they arrived on the front line during the height of Britain in 1940.

It is perhaps the only dual control Spitfire left, having been converted after the War as an advanced trainer by Supermarine. It was restored a while ago.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:04 PM

Oh, and BTW,

"Whenever disaster strikes anywhere in the world, the USA is first on the scene to help with massive amounts of aid to the stricken."

I think you'll find Australia beat the USA to the punch over the Tsunami. And the proportion of aid per head of our population was much higher, especially for the initial round.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:12 PM

This "USA first on the scene" is a popular expression, a sort of urban myth, similar to the one about alligators living in the New York sewers. If you hear it repeated often enough, you may even believe it. ;-) The USA is first on the scene when its interests are at stake, and that is true of all great powers, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: The Walrus
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:19 PM

I always thought there were more seven Spitfires left, I mean, every bloody airshow seems to have one or more (OK, often very high Mk.s but still Spitfires) - to be honest I'm sick of them, I much prefer the Hurribird (now there genuinely are only about six or eight Hurricanes flying). I remember being at Biggin when they flew four of them in including one in Desert and one in early Night fighter configuration(beautiful planes and the real heroes of the Battle of Britain - there were a lot more of these than Spits and without the 'Spitfire snobbery').

Are there any Bf109s in original configuration still flying?
I seem to remember in the late 1980s somebody was matching a Daimler-Benz power plant to a Spanish 109 (the ones with the Rolls-Royce engine), but I never heard any more.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:32 PM

The Hurricane was a mix of earlier wood& fabric with metal bodied technology (wood & fabric from behind the wings) developed from an existing plane. The Spitfire was designed by the company who held the World Plane Racing Trophy (or whatever) and who built float-plane aircraft for that.

The Hurricane was a stable gun-platform which took on the German Bombers, the Spitfire was used to tackle the supporting German Fighters. It was originally going to be called "The Shrew".

"You didn't fly a Spitfire, you made love to it."

BTW, s few days ago a guy was killed in a crash here of an old prop fighter plane - think it was Korean.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:33 PM

I believe there is at least one fully restored and flying Bf-109, in original configuration. Have seen pictures of it recently in flight.

There's also a Zero in flying condition, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: The Walrus
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 06:20 AM

"..The Hurricane was a mix of earlier wood& fabric with metal bodied technology (wood & fabric from behind the wings) developed from an existing plane. The Spitfire was designed by the company who held the World Plane Racing Trophy..."

As a result, the Hurricane, with its 'skeleton' could absorb more punishment than the Spitfire which was 'monocoque'(sp?) and relied on its outer fabric for strength.
I admit the Spitfire is a 'pretty' aeroplane and could out perform the Hurribird, but there is just something about the Hurricane that appeals

This talk of Spitfires reminds me of one of my favourite 'Aircraft' quotes:

When discussing the P-51 (Mustang), someone was heard to say (to the effect)
"It can't do what the Spitfire does...But it does it over Berlin!"

W

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 07:10 AM

Fine Foolstroupe. Next time the Japs decided to invade Australia, we should just sit back and say "Fuck 'em"

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Grab
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 07:42 AM

Guest, didn't the Americans do exactly that until the Japs made the mistake of bombing Pearl Harbor...?

LH is right to a large extent, government aid (any government) is proportional to how much that government cares about the people it's giving aid to, not proportional to how much those people need help.

And FWIW, the Spit and Hurri are nice enough, but I'm in love with the De Havilland Mosquito - the Tornado of its day. Fast and agile enough to go up against the nightfighters, and a worthwhile bomber (617 - Dambuster - squadron used one to set the target explosion that the Lancasters aimed for, later on when they were doing precision bombing against strategic targets). And generally it's a blindingly beautiful aircraft. Now never mind the war and political stuff, *there's* an opinion that's going to get me flamed! ;-)

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: Jack The Lad
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 04:26 PM

The late President of Israel Ezer Weizman flew a Spitfire in the RAF during the 2nd World War. He later helped found the Israel Air force, and on January 7, 1949, he was a pilot in a group of 4 Israeli Spitfire fighters, who clashed with 14 British Spitfire and Tempest aircraft, after an earlier flight of British Spitfires infringed Israel's southern border for reconnaissance and 3 got shot down by the IAF. Weizman damaged a British Tempest but did not shoot it down (several British fighters were shot down by other pilots).
His black Spitfire is preserved in the Israeli Air Force Museum, and flew overhead as he was buried on April 26th this year.

Jack The Lad

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:18 PM

I like the Beaufighter, the 'Whispering Death' of the Pacific Campaign. 8 machine guns, and 2 50 mm cannons, I believe, they used them to sink Jap shipping.

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 04:35 AM

I always loved the Fairey Gannet!
The world's ugliest aircraft
G..

Subject: RE: BS: More Spitfire warnings
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 06:22 AM

I had a look over one once when I was a kid - they flew in off a carrier during an exercise off Bundaberg. Always loved the way the wings folded.