here we go again

Subject: here we go again
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 03:58 PM

Here we go again with all the finger pointing and stone throwing.Some of it directed at people like the president and some directed at all the others who failed miserably for whatever reason that can be determined at the horrible situation in the Southern part of our wonderful country.
The reality is that it does not matter who is president of this country the stone throwing never ceases and is never directed at the real root cause of the ineptness that has become the norm.All of it is due to just one thing.That nasty disgusting word POLITICS.That one thing is responsible for everything that does not work and almost nothing that does. The only time something really works is only due to somehow miraculously leaving Politics behind where it belongs.Everything that happens in Washington is so laden with Pork Barrel politics so that some idiot can be relected in by their constituancy that almost nothing that come out of legislation goes to what a bill was passed for.Politics is responsible for all the deaths and misplaced people in this terrible happening and nothing else.No President because of how our system is set up has the power to screw up things fortunately and unfortunately.The Politicians really love it when we get involved with the stone throwing as well so that no focus will be on their ineptness and their contribution to the problems.Already they are calling for another inept committee to investigate this tragedy.Tell me please one thing good that has come of any of these stupid wasteful committees.
It is time for the people to put their foot down and say No More Politics.Mississippitom

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 04:23 PM

How do we go about doing that, Mississippitom? Just saying it won't do any good. We have to do something.

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 08:38 PM

We can start by getting enough folks to understand the problem.If we can get enough folks together we can do something about anything.I am a Vietnam Vet and I have found a organization that is fighting for my Veterans benifits.They do this by making it easy to send letters to the proper Senator and or Representative.That is the only way anything will get done.These politicians need to know that we have had it with the BS they are putting out.Too many people are totally unaware and apathetic.The numbers that vote show this every election.I have seen results that have come mostly through the efforts of a orgainization called DAV short for disabled american Veterans.A organization with the goal of making the elected officials accountable is the only way to go.Grass roots efforts work.They always have.Look how Jimmy Carter got elected.What a person thinks of him does not matter.He was elected due to his Grass Roots efforts.Confucious said "A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.If you and I are interested,we can get others interested.Maybe this current Catastrophy is the vehicle to get people fired up.We are always only a heart beat away from the next big terrible happening.Unfortunately Politics keeps us there.This whole thing could have been avoided if politics was not involved.I was watching the news just a little while ago and there was a writer for Newsweek that predicted this exact happening back in the early to mid 90's yet no one including the poulace paid any attention.We seem to be programed to think "I can't do anything about it anyway"that is so untrue.The politicians will listen if enough people make enough noise and don't stop till something happens.Those elected idiots don't ever have any ot their benifits cut back and they always vote raises for themselves but no one says anything.Right now they will listen.You keep telling folks and I will keep telling folks then we need to start a Blog to get people involved.Thanks for replying.At least right now there is you and me and I can guarantee you that I can get some more folks if just one person is as interested as I am.mississippitom

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 08:52 PM

Everything to do with what happens and doesn't happen in the big world is politics - the kind of thing you are talking about is definitely politics.

People acting together to achieve something or stop something is politics.

But there's dirty politics and clean politics.

The problem isn't too much politics, it's too little politics - it's the way people hand everything over to snake oil merchants to run things, and turn their back on what's happening, as if it wasn't anything to do with them and there was nothing they could do about it even if they cared.

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 08:55 PM

It never ceases to amaze me how little people really understand our system of Government.If the economy is doin good it is the President that did it if we like him.If the economy is doing bad and we like the President then it is not his fault.The reality is that without the support of the House of Representatives and the Senate,the President cannot do anything at all.The system is broken but not beyond repair.It will take people waking up and educating themselves about what is really going on and why.Another thing good old Confucious said was that (and this is a paraphrase)if people are enlightened(educated)all problems will dissappear.Ignorance is the main cause of apathy as far as I am concerned.People have to care enough first then get educated about what is going on instead of spewing forth a bunch of nonsense that does not take all factors into consideration.The reason the levys failed in New Orleans was strictly due to politics as usual.The reason all those folks got left behind in New Orleans is due to politics as well.It has nothing to do with race but everything to do with where people put their attention.Why do we always wait till something goes to hell in a hand basket before we do anything?POLITICS ,mississippitom

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 09:58 PM

The system is broken but not beyond repair.It will take people waking up and educating themselves about what is really going on and why.

And that is a very clear political statement.

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:02 AM

Good posts, mississippitom. I think the distinction you are making is between "politics" and "government". I agree.

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:04 AM

Let's form a committee to study the problem, then elect some members to . . . .

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:13 AM

... go and rescue Brian!

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:07 AM

Welease Bwian!

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: ard mhacha
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:22 AM

We knew it exsisted in the richest country in the World, but the sight of third World conditions still came as a shock, being black in the          US is still an awful dilemma.       Make no mistake had those stranded helpless people been white the rescue operation would have begun on day 1.

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 07:16 AM

People are entitled to ask questions...

Why has it taken George Bush five days to get to New Orleans?

President Bush was on holiday in Texas when Katrina struck. He then spent Monday on a pre-arranged political fundraising tour of California and Arizona, which he did not cancel or curtail. On Tuesday he surveyed the hurricane damage - but only from the flight deck of Air Force One, prompting criticism that he was too detached from the suffering on the ground. He didn't give a speech until Tuesday afternoon - 36 hours after the storm first hit - and didn't embark on a proper tour of the region until yesterday. Key advisers have come under fire for similar levels of detachment. As the full magnitude of the disaster unfolded, the Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, was seen buying shoes in New York, and Dick Cheney remained on holiday.

How could the world's only superpower be so slow in rescuing its own people?

It will probably take months, even years, to answer that question. But here are a few factors to consider: 1) the federal government's disaster relief agency, FEMA, has lost considerable clout because the priority at the Department of Homeland Security has been counter-terrorism; 2) the homeland security director, Michael Chertoff, has no experience in disaster relief; 3) because of FEMA's low profile, almost no contingency measures were taken before Katrina struck; 4) the under-resourced local Army Corps of Engineers appeared completely unprepared to conduct emergency operations after the levees were breached; 5) nobody appears to have considered the communications problems inherent in loss of phone and cell-phone service.

Why did he cut funding for flood control and emergency management?

Another question likely to be the subject of official investigations. Local and former federal officials are in little doubt that the budgetary priorities of Iraq, tax cuts and the "war on terror" are to blame. Disaster prevention experts have been studying New Orleans for years and urging upgrades to its levees and other preventive measures. The Army Corps of Engineers was supposed to carry out some of this work last year, but its funding was cut. It seems the Bush administration considered the risk of malicious human attack and the risk of the ravages of nature, and found itself incapable of holding both ideas in its head.

Why did it take so long to send adequate National Guard forces to keep law and order?

The National Guard is under pressure in every US state because of the strains of deployment in Iraq. More than one-third of Louisiana's 10,000 guardsmen are either in Iraq or Afghanistan. No mass deployment of guardsmen from other states is being contemplated because they are all needed in Iraq too. At first, only 3,000 guardsmen were sent to New Orleans, but that was increased to about 10,000 as looting and gun violence became widespread.

How can the US take Iraq, a country of £25m people, in three weeks but fail to rescue 25,000 of its own citizens from a sports arena in a big American city?

America's obsession with maintaining its pre-eminent position as the world's largest superpower means it is incapable of responding swiftly and effectively to a humanitarian crisis. While it has the firepower for fighting wars, it does not have the leadership and skills to combat natural disaster.

Published on Saturday, September 3, 2005 by the lndependent/UK
The Questions a Shocked America is Asking its President
by Rupert Cornwell in Washington

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 08:02 AM

I dont want to get into any finger pointing but it should occur to people that the Mayor of New Orleans is a Black man.There was no plan to get all those poor mostly black folks out of New Orleans.He knew how many were there and that they had no way out.Again it is all politics as someone said.There is no shortage of blame to go around that is for sure.
The problem still remains that our system is crippled by politics.I have heard some of the most rediculous rhetoric from both sides of the isle for so long it sickens me.
I am a Vietnam Veteran and very aware of how politics got many of our citizens killed for absolutely nothing yet it still goes on and on and on.When are people going to wake up and say ENOUGH do your damned job and quit using everything that comes along to ensure that you get another term in office to do absolutely nothing and about anything.

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: GUEST,Not easy to say so soon
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 08:17 AM

Blaming politicians at all levels is easy. Everyone who voted for reducing taxation needs to recognise they also have some responsibility for this.

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 08:44 AM

... but only in the sense that everybody would also vote for Motherhood and Apple Pie - but the politicians didn't want to reduce pork barrelling and wars (another form of pork barrelling to big companies which makes jobs and keeps the money circulating)...

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 08:48 AM

re post

If one ever calls Bush to task - they are said to be engaged in Bush bashing.

If the buck does not stop there, if the Presidency is not a symbol of respondsibility - WHO is?

Deflecting respondsibility is the administration's best and only game plan when it comes to post incident plans.

Here is my latest edited contribution of counter-propoganda on the subject:

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/attic2.jpg

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 09:09 AM

There is no shortage of blame to go around that is for sure.

There is also no shortage of folks assigning blame.

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 09:14 AM

Blaming politics, not necessarily politicions, is pretty much blaming the game-playing people do when they should be doing their job, and it's blaming the show the players put on for people. Forget the show. I think many politicians believe people are fairly stupid and won't notice what they're really up to and won't ask the tough questions. They may be right.

This current 'whose fault is it/who shall we stone today' mentality is something I think the game players are quite happy with. Throwing figurative stones keeps us from asking tough questions with an open mind and demanding truthful and appropriate answers. This immediate disaster isn't even over, and some people seem to believe they know beyond a shadow of a doubt who should be taken out and shot. These folks are easy because they're predictable. People who ask questions, demand honest answers and make up their minds based on facts are NOT predicatable. It's also very hard for a spin campaign to work because spin doesn't answer questions.

Blame does not find where the system went wrong or fix it. Looking for someone to stone is easy because it's a conditioned response that requires little thought. I personally don't like Bush, but everything that went wrong in N.O. that was preventable took many people and many years to get that screwed up. It took a lot of people pointing fingers, blaming, bashing, and engaging other fun but unproductive activities instead of doing their jobs or allowing others to do theirs.

Our progenitors howled and threw crap at each other. We haven't made a whole lot of progress since we lived in trees.

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 01:03 PM

Thanks for the dialogue from each and every one of you.This is what is really needed.Somehow we have to get people to care about what is happening then get them to truly understand how broken our system is.Then and only then do we have a chance to do something about all of the messes we keep getting into because no one cares enough until something really bad happens.
I am not sayin the sky is falling in the sense that chiken little did but the sky truly is falling in many ways.It is so discouraging to me that until I came to this site,I could not get anyone to enguage in meaningful dialogue about much of anything of importance.We are unfortunately in a society that only thinks about the immediate and not the long term of anything at all.It scares me to death to see how little most of our young folks and many of even our older ones like me know so little about anything at related to what is going on in this country much less the rest of the world.
I have no idea what the answers are but I do know that if we don't all take some responsibility for what is going on around us we are doomed to cease to exist in the not too distant future.
I truly appreciate the time each and every one has taken to say something and express their thoughts and feelings.If only we could get more people to do the same.mississippitom

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: John O'L
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 07:54 PM

Politics itself is not the problem - politics is just the relationship of the individual to the state. The problem here is that the political process has been bought and sold to multinational corporations, who see the individual, the elected representative, the government, and the entire population as nothing more than instruments for the generation of greater profits.

As Dick Greenhaus points out on this thread, New Orleans means nothing to them. It's not even a blip on their radar.

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 07:55 PM

Amen to that!

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: GUEST,ANONYMOUS
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 01:36 PM

Can I get a wittness? Amen!!!
Really want to help?
Just extend your hand out to the next person you see and say a kind word. Its magic and contagious!
Just try it, ok? And on that note Thank you to all those who have prayed and gave to my people, our people, our fellow americans, our human race.

Subject: RE: here we go again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 02:10 PM

mississippi tom, it's about time you stopped using Bobert's id and went ahead and followed Joe's directions so you two can switch out those ids. It's going to make our heads spin, otherwise, keeping up with where Bobert *really* is.

SRS