Old songbooks - value?

Subject: Old songbooks - value?
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:07 PM

Once more appealing to the extrordinary resource that is Mudcatdom Assembled!

An acquaintance of mine from one of the country jam sessions I occasionally visit is interested in selling his collection of songbooks. I'm told they're all in very good condition. Some are relatively new and of no particular 'collector' value. I suspect some, however, may have considerable value.

'Twould be appreciated if anyone has any knowledge or observations, please share them.

Here's a list (transcribed from a hand-written list; errors may have crept in):


Songs of the Range 15 songs 1938

Bill Boyd, "The Cowboy Rambler". The Cowboy Sings. 1932

Old Fashioned Hymns and Mountain Ballads
as sung by Usher Sizemore and Little Jimmie 1933

Cowboy Copas Sings

Gene Autry's Deluxe Edition of Famous Original Cowboy Songs and Mountain Ballads
contains 85 songs 1938

The Oklahoma Yodelling Cowboy Gene Autry
contains 30 songs 1932

Sgt. Gene Autry Presents his Favorite Patriotic and Hillbilly Songs

Wilf Carter No. 4 1939

Hank Williams' "Country Music Folio" - Hank Williams' Favorite Songs 1953

Souvenir and Songbook
autographed by Stonewall Jackson at Tillsonburg Fair 1968

Best of the West Song Folio

Hillbilly and Country Hit Parade, Vol. 2, No 36 Summer 1965

Hillbilly and Cowboy Hit Parade 1956

Country and Western Hit Parade, No 68, July 1971

Albert E Brumley's Son of the Pioneers, 1970

Front Porch Old Time Songs, Jokes and Stories

48 songs by Wayne Erbson, 1993

32 Big Country Hits, 1977

110 Super Country Hits

Kathy Mattea, A Collection of Hits. 1991

The Simplified 'By Ear' System of Guitar Chords, by Don Williams, 1965

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:44 PM

Some of these make collectors drool, because they are hard to find (most were plumb wore out).
Boyd- rare
Autry Deluxe- $20-25
Autry- yodeling cowboy- about $20 each (there are two)

But you can look many of them up at www.abebooks.com yourself. This site lists books for most of the dealers selling by mail, English-speaking and European. Not all on your list will be there because some seldom get to a dealer. It is a beginning, however.

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 05:17 PM

I have the "companion" to the "Old Fashioned Hymns and Mountain Ballads as sung by Asher Sizemore and Little Jimmie 1933." It's called Asher and Little Jimmie's 1938 Edition Family Circle Songs, ©1937 Asher Sizemore.

My copy is a bit ragged, and may have had a back cover that was missing, but I believe I found it at a garage sale and paid about $1.00 for it a year or so ago. That says absolutely NOTHING about what it might be worth, since I haven't looked at whether any dealers or collectors would be interested.

Asher and Little Jimmie apparently were quite well known in the "Golden Days of Radio," but probably are little remembered now. My book has several pictures and brief "career notes" that might be of interest to period collectors. I would expect that your friend's is similar.

John

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 11:51 PM

Not being a "member" I cannot participate in the MC on-line auction.

However, given the permission of Max/Joe/Dick

I will present the first offer to this thread.

Two crisp U.S.A. Grants would like to purchase the paper/print. ($100.00) one hundrd U.S.A. total.

To seal the deal....please repley to [e-mail]

[e-mail] and [e-mail]

I will wait until the close of Wednesday 20, October for a reply.

You say the word and the pair of generals are on their way.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

thank you for making a solicitation that "Guests" can reply to.

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 11:54 PM

The offer is for the entire set - as presented in this thread.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Midnight Wednesday the offer expires.

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 12:14 AM

Mr. McCaw - have you been smoking Jimson Weed?

Your recommended search of ABE-books - shows most Bill Boyd books selling for an even buck...the US Postal Service makes more than that in shipping.

IF - Gargoyle is sincere - and the seller can catch his tale -grab his offer quick. One of the two or both are Id-Jets.

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 06:17 AM

No idea why the time pressure, Gargoyle, but you would be out of luck. I won't even see the gent who owns the books until Wednesday, and won't get home until after midnight.

Also, the Stonewall Jackson autographed thingie is already spoken-for; turns out a friend of mine's grandmother (still with us, but with a degree of Alzheimer's) used to date Mr. Jackson. It's truly a small world; the universe can't possible be expanding!

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 07:46 AM

A while back I went shopping on the internet for some old songbooks, and paid something like 20 dollars each for a WWVA Jamboree songbook from the '30's, and a Doc Hopkins/Karl & Harty songbook. They had other country songbooks from the 30's through the present and the older ones commanded a decent price.

Unfortunately, I don't remember the web address.

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Deckman
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 10:48 AM

To: "J.M." ... thanks for posting this thread. I'm finding it quite interesting. I'll make some observations that will probably NOT clear things much, but I think the points are valid:

I'm sensitive to the question you raise. I am sitting on a large collection of folk song books. Over the last few years, I have successfully auctioned off several of them. One was quite rare and did bring in a high price, $167 as I recall. As this was an auction with ALL proceeds going to MAX, and the financial support of MC, the prices the auction rasied do not reflect their true value. (Though I do think the rare book was well worth the $167).

I was very taken by "Songs of the Range." I first was given this books when I was 13. And has already been mentioned, I simply wore it out. I would gladly pay $ 20 or $ 30 to have another copy. But does my sentimentality reflect it's true value? I dunno! It's a difficult question.

I really take exception when people recommend "Abe Books" or the other on-line book sources as a meaningful reference for pricing these books. These sites simply reflect the high volume used book market that I feel do not really reflect the true value.

As to the offer of $ 100 for everything, it looks like a genuine offer. You have to decide if the $100 is adequate for you, or your friends' needs. Do you just want to clear the shelves. Do you want to place these books at an affordable price in the hands of folk music students? Do you want to pass these books on to rare book dealers who will market them for the highest price possible? Do you want to go through the hassels of opening your own private library to the folk music public? These are not easy questions.

I myself am sitting on a VERY vaulable collections of books, records, private tapes, photos. How to properly pass these items along has troubled me for years.

When I first started auctioning off some books to benefit MC, I had several meaningful conversations with Joe Offer. He gave me some very vaulable advice and things to think about.

CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 02:21 PM

Some observations made by a librarian and collector:
The prices of used books are always a question of offer and demand.
New books (some 20 years out ot print) might be more expensive than older ones in sufficient number.
There is also the question of damage. The binding can be repaired - you also need new clothes sometimes, if only the book is readable. It's like a pretty girl whom you appreciate even without cloth(es).
An example for readability:
The book from 1650 I bought to celebrate my first salary was marred by a bookworm which ate away the lower part of a line. But everybody knows that the upper part of a Latin letter is enough to read without problems. On the back pages the tracks wnt exactly between the lines which were legible without problems. And after the first pages there were no bookworm traces.
So the antiquarian sold it for about (converted!) $20,-, I would have paid the triple because I had looked out for it such a long time.

Some of the items offered here are very interesting. Maybe they are not reprinted because of copyright or a lack of widespread demand.
Since they are from a folk collector's shelves methinks you should sell them in the folk (Mudcat) community, not to an antquarian who will pay you not much and sell them expensively.
Think of the poor folk friends in the cold!

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 03:44 PM

Value, of course is market-determined, as stated by Wilfried.

Smaller book dealers I know do their pricing by checking Abebooks, trade journals, Amazon and other sites where offers are made.
No longer can out-of-print titles of collectible genres be purchased from a legitimate dealer for pocket change. If you want it enough, you pay the price.   
Occasionally I find a gem at church jumble sales, etc. My collection of old western song books is small because those by the old campaigners, like Powder River Jack Lee, seldom show up, and when they do, prices are often beyond what I want to pay.
Generic cowboy songbooks by Amsco, etc., are usually cheap.

Incidentally, one Bill Boyd title is offered through Abebooks by a dealer in Ohio, "Folio of Western Songs No. 1," $17.00. It won't be there long. Boyd, aka "The Cowboy Rambler," died in 1977. No copies of the very early "The Cowboy Sings" are on offer.
There are other songbooks by 'Bill Boyd(s)', but not the same person. Guest obviously knows nothing of the genre.

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 07:13 PM

... or knows more than he wants to let on...

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 09:55 PM

Gee, Foolestroupe, do you mean someone is trying to pull a fast one?

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 05:15 AM

I would never make such an impolite suggestion directly.

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 03:35 PM

I'm very grateful for all the input, and am compiling a summary for the gent concerned when I see him (including your offer, Gargoyle, never fear. And Deckman's as well).

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: GUEST,Gene
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 05:22 PM

Is this a miscopy/misprint?

i bought this years ago thinking the same thing, but

Albert E Brumley's Son of the Pioneers, 1970

Was actually:

Albert E Brumley's Son[gs] of the Pioneers, 1970

many seem to be in the variety of JUST lyrics books..

but the listed song/music books make it well worth $100.00

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 05:53 PM

Several of Brumley's were reprinted under the names of groups, such as the "Southern Gospel Singers." Sometimes the name of the booklet was changed. Confusion the result!

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:08 PM

Sorry, I didn't make the connection before. Brumley's Songs of the Pioneers includes several "volumes" and they are - or were within the past few years - still available from "tourist shops" along the road. My #1 shows the ©1970. The #2 shows ©1973. They apparently are, or were recently, still in print as I got my two brand new ca. 1996 ($2.59 each) at the famous "Wall Drug" tourist trap in Wall, S Dakota, just down the road from Mt Rushmore. If the #1 was still being reprinted after 26 years, and the others are newer, there's a pretty good chance it, and the later ones, are still in stock (but I'm not about to drive the 1600 miles round-trip to check it out for you.)

This is not to say that it wouldn't be hard for most people to find, and could be worth a "few bucks" to someone interested; but I doubt if a knowledgeable dealer would consider them "rare." You never know what something's worth until you find someone willing to hand you the cash.

John

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 05:32 AM

No, no, no, - after you have put the cash in your pocket...

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: GUEST,Gene
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 04:53 PM

I think i paid about $50.00 for the listed one below and the other
3 in the set - some years ago...

Hank Williams' "Country Music Folio" - Hank Williams' Favorite Songs 1953

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Gypsy
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 10:25 PM

Deckman,now is the time to work on your will, and drive your attorney crazy! I have SUCH a long list for the instruments, books, and dogs. With addresses, phones, and emails.

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 11:27 PM

VALUATION -

A peculiar story, heard first hand this day.

A fellow friend (yeah I have about one and two/thirds that count me in their collection) collected "Baseball Cards" his office was broken into and a small portion of the collection stolen.

However, he also had a booklet (like a personal telephone directory) which listed the maker, player, conditino, year etc.)

BECAUSE he had a record - 25 years ago when the theft occured the insurance company covered his loss for over 7,000 dollars (he was lamenting their potential value today.)

Bottom line - I have a literal eight-foot stack of sheet music - NO CATALOGUE - No Organization. Some sheet-pieces excell $100 US....and then their are the books....Steal Rail, Vols I,II, V or North Carolina ....etc.

House is funky, electrical old, time to get organized....probably hire a college kid that is a library major.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 11:31 PM

Value - I would be broken hearted to part with the British School song books - they could be worth 50 cents but....."There was a little man, that stood in a wood - was my first introduction to a "Jack in the Pulpit" which I was not to meet until 20 years later in a North Maine Woods swamp.

To the right person - songbooks are priceless.

Sincerely,

Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 11:51 PM

Old school songbooks- Joe Offer got me into accumulating them. Must be a couple thousand tunes in those I picked up. Lyrics often abbreviated, but a lot of music and fun for little money.
Schools here sent them to the dump- I think the same happened in many places.

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Deckman
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 07:28 AM

Gypsy ... Your DOGS come with cell phones, e-mails and addresses? WOW!! Those are some dogs! Bob

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: GUEST,Gene
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:58 PM

Typo correction.

RE: previous post.

I think i paid about $50.00 for the listed one below and the other
3 in the set - some years ago...

Hank Williams' "Country Music Folio" - Hank Williams' Favorite Songs 1953

NAW!!!! make that $5.00 - I love old Hank's stuff but Not That Much!

Subject: RE: Old songbooks - value?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 01:18 PM

Hank Williams is popular enough that new books of his music are in print. Hal Leonard has a paperback out with all of his 128 songs ($13.57 at Amazon, $19,95 list). Also in hardcover for the hardcore.