BS: Bush and Torture....

Subject: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 06:32 PM

* injecting saline solution to make people urinate on themselves...

* threatening people with dogs...

* 18 to 29 hour a day interrogation for up to 54 days in a row...

* threatening to hurt people mothers...

* leading naked people arond on leashes...

* axcute sleep deprivation...

* soaking naked people with water and making them stand 40 hours in a cold room shakled to the flooks in chains...

* waterboardding where people feel they are being drowned...

* "Pakinstani hangings" where peoples wrists are twisted behind them and then chained to hooks in walls 5 feet above the floor

* suffocation

* death from these and other such nasty tricks

Now, Mr. Bush may like to pump out his chest and ***PROCLAIM*** that the United States hasn't engaged in torture under his watch, but all of these things have been done by either our military or CIA...

Like maybe one of our Bush aplolgists here in Mudville would like to give us a working defination of what "torture" is???

T?

Old Guy??

GUEST A???

My buddy, BB????

Just real curious...

Bobert

(Oh, just to save time.... "Torture, Amercian Style", Washington Post, Outlook, Nov 27, 2005, written by David Luban, author of "The Torture Debate...)

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Peace
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 06:38 PM

Article here.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 06:51 PM

Thanks fir the assist, Bruce...

It oughtta save some time havin' to go 'round wiht the Bushites on sorces...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 07:51 PM

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. :( Especially when those are his instructions. (NOT)

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 07:56 PM

Getting scarier and scarier.........

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: leftydee
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 08:02 PM

How do we stop them? Exposure doens't seem to work

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 08:21 PM

If I said how, the FBI would come get me.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 08:33 PM

Gotcha, Sorch...

Cryin' shame that American's are either too busy wavin' flags 'er shoppin' to take a few minutes out and ask themselves what out history is really about...

I saw yesterday on the news where folks were knockin' other folks down on the florr to get into a Wal-Mart first when the doors opened and thinkin' just waht a sad commentary this was on those who9 have really laid down their blood, their sweat and their tears to make this country what it is... Yeahm knockin' each other down to friggin' shop?!?!?!?!?....

Purdy sickenin'.... If Osoma saw this on TV he's probably show a little smile fir jus a few seconds and then wonder if America deserves being hit again... It has been become a rather pathetic nation with some very bad values and behaviors...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Beer
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 08:49 PM

Very sad indeed. It reminds me somewhat of the Viet-nam era but more frightening. We all have answers but were not the ones in power. I think that if there is a God he is having a hard time to bless America. How can they even show up for church services.
Beer

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 08:57 PM

Yeah, I was thinkin' this myself tonight, Beer, watchin "60 Minutes" where some pharmacists are refusing to fill perscriptions fir "Morin' After" pills because they think it amounts to abortions? I turned to my wife, P-Vine, and the two of us consider ourselves good Christain folks, and I said... "Oh, I wish Jesus would return in the flesh jus' to starighten out some of these right wingers who don't ever quote any6thing from the New Testament...

Like how can they call themselves "Christ"ians???? Ain't no Christ in their lives... Just political agendas and power... Ain't got nuthin' to do with the teachings of Jesus!!! None!!!

But like I have pointed out in the past, Jesus told Matthew these folks would be found out...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Peace
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 09:01 PM

"How can they even show up for church services."

Likely, they own the buildings.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 09:05 PM

Them ain't churches, Bruce... Thems is indoctrination centers... Jesus would burn 'um all to the ground...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 09:05 PM

Good point, Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 09:45 PM

America is building some heavy duty karma.

God help those in the hands of the torturers.

And God help us to help ourselves out of this catastrophy of a government.

For instance, I still have hope that the special prosecutor Fitzgerald's new grand jury will indict more neocons.

And then I hope and pray they will really go to trial and be found guilty and really serve time [instead of being pardoned by Bush] who imo should be indicted with the rest of that evil gang.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 09:52 PM

Jesus is on his knees puking at what he sees done in his name by people who claim to speak for him. Note that I do not (claim to speak for him that is). They use Jesus as a campaign symbol.

Remember folks, THEY are NOT the USA. We are. I remind my overseas friends of this almost daily. Luckily, they seem to understand that there is a huge difference between the American People and the current American Government.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 10:51 PM

Believe me, TIA, you are speaking for Him... I spent a lotta time in the New Testament and you are very much speakin' fir Him...

Curious thing that most fundamentalists don't want to have nuthin' to do with the New Testament???

And they call themselves Christians????

Not...

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 12:48 AM

TIA - You got that right. Pretty good example of using the Lord's name in vein. To the Bushites, it O.K. to use the Lord's name as a campaign symbol.

Isn't there something else about idolatry? Whats the difference between a role model and an idol. From where I sit, I think those that defend Bush, actually idolize him.   

Does a sick and morally deprived leader mean a sick and morally deprived people? No, only if they fail to act.

...but back to the topic of the thread.

Torture. I have known a couple of men who have been tortured. Your nervous system is never quite the same. Its not like these people are tortured for 30 seconds and then its over. It goes on and on and on. If you're are lucky enough to escape or be released, you are left with a very damaged nervous system.

...but Cheney, the 'Grand Inquisitor' likes it. It makes him feel powerful.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 07:52 AM

People who knew him back when now say they don't even know this man anymore... Power has eaten up the man's soul...

Remember when Bush stole the election in 2000... People wer going 'round sayin' stuff like, "Well, at least Cheney will keep him straight..."

Them days is a distant memory...

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Peace
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 10:53 AM

Where are the Bushites?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: leftydee
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 11:26 AM

Heads in the sand , I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 06:22 PM

You aren't looking at this from the correct point of view...

From 'W's point of view all that stuff isn't torture. Torture would be force feeding them pretzels!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 06:29 PM

Ex-Powell aide criticizes detainee effort

By ANNE GEARAN, Associated Press
Last updated: 5:56 p.m., Monday, November 28, 2005

WASHINGTON -- A top aide to former Secretary of State Colin Powell said Monday that wrongheaded ideas for the handling of foreign detainees arose from White House and Pentagon officials. Cheney's office, Rumsfeld aides and others argued "that the president of the United States is all-powerful, that as commander in chief the president of the United States can do anything he damn well pleases," Wilkerson said, and the Geneva Conventions are irrelevant.

In an Associated Press interview, former Powell chief of staff Lawrence Wilkerson also said President Bush was "too aloof, too distant from the details" of postwar planning. Underlings exploited Bush's detachment and made poor decisions, Wilkerson said.

Wilkerson blamed Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and likeminded aides. He said Cheney must have sincerely believed that Iraq could be a spawning ground for new terror assaults, because "otherwise I have to declare him a moron, an idiot or a nefarious bastard."


A moron, an idiot or a nefarious bastard, eh? Ya think? Why only one out of three?

(Complete story on any U.S. newspaper web page with AP link)

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 06:47 PM

They way I hear the story, Robo-m, is that Bush gets into the pretzels all by hisself... Yeah, Laura has been tryin' to hide 'um better but the boy just has a nose fir pretzels....

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 09:19 PM

Bush and torture? do you mean how to torture Bush?

Here is one suggestion

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushburst9.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 Nov 05 - 11:42 AM

8 to 29 hour a day interrogation (Bobert)

Time seems to run slower on the Wes Ginny slide ruler than elsewhere in the world.

Wolfgang (grin)

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Nov 05 - 12:18 PM

Obviously a Bobert typo... the 29 should have read "20"...

But reminds me of a Soviet watch that was given to me which had a red hammer & sicle imprinted on the face and it got a lot of attention... Folks would ask nme if it kept good time and I loved to respons, "Yep, just 20 years behind..."

Nevrmind...

BObert (ginnin' back)

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Barry Finn
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 03:58 AM

Once some one starts to use torture, usually the other side will follow in turn, then the 1st one cries foul. Gross stupidity & inhuman foulness.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 10:20 AM

Toturing a person in prison has been rationalized for vermin that are inhuman and mentally inferior...

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushconvictx.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 01:17 PM

I was in an interesting conversation the other day- it seems that in at least some AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) groups they accept that Bush is drinking and that that explains the inexplicable. One man told me the other day that they totally understand the astonishing gaps in Bush's response to disasters.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 11:47 AM

AMERICA'S SECRET WAR (from DER SPIEGEL)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 12:09 PM

TIA, thanks for keeping the distinction between America and Americans in the minds of us non-Americans. Being a Brit is embarrassing enough these days, but to be a decent American must be utterly soul-destroying.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: GUEST,A
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 01:15 PM

Peter K, Being an American these days is just that, being an American.
If you are embarrassed being a Brit, that is your problem and maybe you should go elsewhere.
Being an American is not soul destroying but listening to the diatribe from some of you non-Americans only makes most of us glad to be in the USA. You are to be pitied rather than censored.

Overall, this thread is a meaningless piece of tripe. One example;

Bobert, Fundamentalists believe in the entire 'book' That is the the basic premise. They do not ignore the New Testament.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Amos
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 05:03 PM

Except where it interferes with their right to do what their little psychoses dictate to them...


A

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 05:06 PM

guest A, how'd you like to be waterboarded?

a practice the US state dept denounces when foreign govts do it but its ok for the CIA

looks like PAx Americana is going down the drain..
along with Bush's approval ratings.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 09:03 PM

'Pax Americana' was always a satirical comment, based on the historical facts of what the 'Pax Romana' really did to everybody but the Romans.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 09:24 PM

and again..

extracts from the Observer..full article here: MI6 and CIA 'sent student to Morocco to be tortured'

An Ethiopian claims that his confession to al-Qaeda bomb plot was signed after beatings, reports David Rose in New York

Sunday December 11, 2005; The Observer

An Ethiopian student who lived in London claims that he was brutally tortured with the involvement of British and US intelligence agencies. Binyam Mohammed, 27, says he spent nearly three years in the CIA's network of 'black sites'. In Morocco he claims he underwent the strappado torture of being hung for hours from his wrists, and scalpel cuts to his chest and penis and that a CIA officer was a regular interrogator. ... The Observer has obtained fresh details of his case which was first publicised last summer. ..Initially interrogated by Pakistani and British officials, he told Stafford Smith: 'The British checked out my story and said they knew I was a nobody. They said they would tell the Americans.'

He was questioned by the FBI and began to hear accusations of terror involvement. He says he also met two MI6 officers. One told him he would be tortured in an Arab country. The interrogations intensified and he says he was taken to Islamabad; then, in July 2002, on a CIA flight to Morocco. His description of the process matches independent reports. Masked officers wore black. They stripped him, subjected him to a full body search and shackled him to his seat wearing a nappy. In Morocco he was told he had plotted with Padilla and had dinner in Pakistan with Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the planner of 9/11, and other al-Qaeda chiefs. 'I've never met anyone like these people,' Mohammed told Stafford Smith. 'How could I? I speak no Arabic... I never heard Padilla's name until they told me.'

During almost 18 months of regular beatings in Morocco, Mohammed says he frequently met a blonde woman in her thirties who told him she was Canadian. The US intelligence officer told The Observer this was an 'amateurish' CIA cover. 'The only Americans who historically pretended to be Canadian were backpackers travelling in Europe during the Vietnam war. Apart from the moral issues, what disturbs me is that, as an attempt to create plausible deniability, this is so damn transparent.'

According to Mohammed, he was threatened with electrocution and rape. On one occasion, he was handcuffed when three men entered his cell wearing black masks. 'That day I ceased really knowing I was alive. One stood on each of my shoulders and a third punched me in the stomach. It seemed to go on for hours. I was meant to stand, but I was in so much pain I'd fall to my knees. They'd pull me back up and hit me again. They'd kick me in the thighs as I got up. I could see the hands that were hitting me... like the hands of someone who'd worked as a mechanic or chopped with an axe.'

Later he was confronted with details of his London life - such as the name of his kickboxing teacher - and met a Moroccan calling himself Marwan, who ordered him to be hung by his wrists. 'They hit me in the chest, the stomach, and they knocked my feet from under me. I have a shoulder pain to this day from the wrenching as my arms were almost pulled out of their sockets.'

Another time, he told Stafford Smith: 'They took a scalpel to my right chest. It was only a small cut. Then they cut my left chest. One of them took my penis in his hand and began to make cuts. He did it once, and they stood still for maybe a minute watching. I was in agony, crying, trying desperately to suppress myself, but I was screaming... They must have done this 20 to 30 times in maybe two hours. There was blood all over.'

In September he was taken to Guantanamo Bay where he has been charged with involvement in al-Qaeda plots and faces trial there by military commission. Stafford Smith said: 'I am unaware of any evidence against him other than that extracted under torture.'

The Foreign Office, the Moroccan Embassy and the CIA refused to comment yesterday.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:56 PM

Ahhhhh, just fir the record, none of the things that I mentuioned in my intial post on this thread is "torture" in the eyes of Bush or Condi Rice???

Hmmmmmmmm???

Wonder what they would call torture???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: dianavan
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 08:09 PM

freda, your post makes me weep. How many innocent people have been tortured by America and Britain in their 'war on terrorism'. I am ashamed to say I was born in the U.S.A.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: GUEST,A
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 08:40 PM

"An Ethiopian student claims."

Maybe so, maybe not. Lets' wait and find out. I would have thought the NY Times and the Washington Post would have been all over this.
In the meantime, Dianavan, if this is so terrible for you, why not renounce your citizenship?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: dianavan
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 09:38 PM

I can't change the fact that I was born there. I just try to hide the fact. Its not something I'm terribly proud of.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:03 PM

Yeah, d, there's more shame on this nation now than anytime in my life.... At least in Vietnam when the autrocities were foinf out, yiou din't have the big cover-ups or lawyers figuring out ways to justify a Mi Lie...

Wrong was wrong... Now, with Bush a so-called Christain (NOT!!!) we have daily Mi Lie's and Bush's laywers say it's just fine with them...

Well, it ain't fine with me and it ain't fine with millions of real Christains...

We need to take back both our country and , apparently, our churches if torturing folks is fine with these so-called followers of Christ...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: freda underhill
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:15 PM

I know how you feel, Dianavan. The race riots here are like an open sore of something that's been festering for a long time, and its shocking and humiliating to see it happen. And as Hilda has said, its an everyday experience for aboriginal Australians, it's always here. I believe our Prime Minister is responsible for the rise in open racism in this country over the last ten years, he has fed the fire with his comments.

btw re the US, I saw George Bush on TV a couple of nights ago, and noticed his voice slurring a bit as he spoke. I have heard that sound before, on people who combine anti-psychotic drugs and alcohol.

best wishes

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: GUEST,A
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:58 PM

Freda, get a life!

Remote diagnostics are for fools.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 05:47 PM

"2 hours, 1 minute ago
WASHINGTON - President Bush reversed course on Thursday and accepted Sen. John McCain's call for a law banning cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of foreign suspects in the war on terror. Bush said the agreement will "make it clear to the world that this government does not torture and that we adhere to the international convention of torture, whether it be here at home or abroad."

Bringin' up those Polls

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 06:08 PM

In that case you are doing good work GUEST,A - or it that really you again Mr Tee?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 06:20 PM

It's a trick, Ebbie.... The same Bush is trying to get a little known
amendment tagged onto the defnse appropriations bill, the Graham-Levin-Kyl amendment, which would suspend the habeas corpus petitions of the folks at Guantanemo...

What this will do, should it pass, is take the US court sustem completely out of the Bush adminsitrations powers to detain people indefinately without visitation from frineds or attorneys thus creating a scenerio where Bush can tourtore anyone he wants because, guess waht??? Who is gonna find out without some level of judical oversight...

A drunkard's dream (pun intended, freda...)...

Yeah, I don't have much use fir Dems but this current crop of Repubs are especially corrupt in the way they are usurping powers and handing them over to the executive branch...

This suspenion of habeas corpus is a very troublesome threshho9ld to croos and won't make anyone any safer...

So, yeah, Bush can say what he wants but if he signs an appropriation bill with this amendment, he's just blowing smoke up McCain's butt...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 06:42 PM

It will be a step recognised by much of the world of the end of the USA's clam to 'wonderfulness' and the beginning of the descent into a fascist 'serial dictatorship' with puppets manipulated by big money.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 09:33 PM

Guest, A: remember that song Tom Paxton wrote for you?

I believe I do, I believe it's true,
I believe exacty what they tell me too.
I believe I do, I believe it's true,
I'm a simple guy, I believe.

But hang on a minute. What's Bush doing banning prisoner abuse when it never happened in the first place?

Well it does mean that decent Americans can hope the tide is turning. And Brits can hope that without the US admin leading it astray, HM Government might start behaving a little more honorably. But what a tragic day for poor Guest, A. His superhero, the most powerful V-P in history, has been utterly humiliated - by the Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 09:58 PM

Like I said, Peter K, it's a trick... Reread my last post...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 01:40 AM

Brillant use of DoubleSpeak!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Barry Finn
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 02:19 AM

Hey Bobert, I like yo'r spellin of My Lie (my correction, hah,hah). Have you seen that Olie North is hosting a series on or about battles of Vous Nume. Haven't tuned in, still can't belive that he out of prison never mind flanting himself on air. Would this be a form of torture if the listener was a villager from Me Die? Shameful.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 08:41 AM

Not only is he out of prison but has one heck of a nice spread just outside Mt. Weather, one of them mysterious military compounds, in western Loudoun County, Va... Must be worth a couple milion bucks... How does a Lt. Colonel come up with kind a' dough is beyond me...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: David C. Carter
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 10:03 AM

Bobert.
Didn't Olie North run a business named GUNS R US?





David.
France

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: GUEST,A
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 10:22 AM

Not a bad day at all. I am, however, not sure as to what you speak.
If it has to do with the McCain bill, then think about what the McCain-Fiengold bill did for us. The soft money for campaign funds increased so greatly that our elections are now awash in money.

I hope the same thing doesn't happen in this case.

It is not about who is getting put down, it is about the outcomes and how the citizens are affected.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 09:53 PM

Agree with A...

Hmmmmmmmmm?

That ain't good....

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 04:32 AM

I was so alarmed by the reports above of the Graham-Levin-Kyl amendment that I googled it.

Anyone who thinks of the USA as the home of the brave and the land of the free - or of a fount of justice - ought to do likewise.

By way of contrast the English House of Lords (the court, not the parliamentary chamber) has recently declared evidence obtained by torture inadmissible (even if it has not clarified the evidence or standard of proof necessary to show that torture has been used).

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: InOBU
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 08:17 AM

Richard, I say this with real love and respect, no irony. Many years ago, we wrote to each other about the war in Ireland, and I spoke of the American courts findings that torture existed in the British prisons, and that there was an insurection not crime. I know that you love your home and nation, and it is hard to be the parent who says, "my child is ill... has done a terrible thing...". But here we are, now our nations are on a joint project of inhuman treatment built on lies.
It is time that we all owned up to the wrongs of torture and demanded that our governments do what other goverments have done. We need open, and transparent investigations, the kind Stalker attempted, and we need prosicutions. Wether or not we need punishments, in order to hold our heads up among civilized nations as a beacon, we need to see George Bush in the dock, we need to see Tony Blair in the dock, we need to see Margarete Thatcher in the dock, we need to see them standing next to Pinochet in the pages of the history books under the word justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 08:34 AM

Yer absolutely right, Larry...

Why do you think Bush bowed out of the World Court???

And why do you think he's licking hus chops at the prospect of the suspension of habeas corpus thru the Graham-Levin-Kyl Amendment that may just innoncentlt get tacked on to the end of the defense appropraitions bill???

Well, my frined, tghese are indeed rhetorical questions because I know that you know the answers...

Yeah, if Graham-Levin-Kyl comes to pass, given the nature of this Supeme Court, then the American executive branch will look very much like Saddam's regime... This is a very dangerous amendment... In essence it runs the checks and balances thru the shreader as it makes every man, woman and child in American vulnerable to arrest and *unlimited solitary detainment* without being charged of anything and without contact to attornies... This ain't American... This is Talibanish behavior...

NO TO GRAHAM-LEVIN-KYL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO TO TALIBAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO TO THE THUGS WHO HAVE HIGHJACKED AMERCIA!!!!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 11:58 AM

Published on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 by the Boston Globe
Bush Could Bypass New Torture Ban - Waiver right is reserved

by Charlie Savage

WASHINGTON - When President Bush last week signed the bill outlawing the torture of detainees, he quietly reserved the right to bypass the law under his powers as commander in chief. After approving the bill last Friday, Bush issued a ''signing statement" -- an official document in which a president lays out his interpretation of a new law -- declaring that he will view the interrogation limits in the context of his broader powers to protect national security. This means Bush believes he can waive the restrictions, the White House and legal specialists said...

Legal academics and human rights organizations said Bush's signing statement and his stance on the wiretapping law are part of a larger agenda that claims exclusive control of war-related matters for the executive branch and holds that any involvement by Congress or the courts should be minimal.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush and Torture....
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 12:13 PM

Its no different in the mosque.

well it is a little different.
As soon as prayers are over, within seconds the political message of the day is yelled out loud by mullahs. The message is usually about godless America and the need to kill Americans and Jews.