BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat

Subject: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 04:27 PM

Dear Friends, and members of other Peace Churchs... please email me at once, at [e-mail]. We have only a few days to save the life of a fellow Quaker and some Mennoites. I don't want to invite flamers to incite in this situation, so please email me for details.
Thyne in the light
lorcan

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 04:29 PM

So you don't want help from non-believers?

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Dead Horse
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 04:30 PM

Is porridge under threat!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: gnu
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 04:31 PM

Surely their plight is worth soliciting our (friends?) help as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 05:14 PM

Sure... it is a life and death issue in Iraq... do email me, but for the sake of the life of a Friend, I would rather not get the flaming going on line... all who want to help email me at once, but, let's not get into a big debate on line, after the 8th, we can have a big rerah talk. I need Quakers to get to their meetings at once on this, but all help is welcome.
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Dead Horse
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 06:18 AM

I sincerely wish you and yours every success, and I apologise unreservedly for the flippancy of my post above.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 07:07 AM

I assume this is concerning the peace workers recently kidnapped there. Our thoughts go out to these brave people. Let's hope their kidnappers can be convinced of the self- destructiveness of their ways before it's too late, assuming it is a Moslem insurgent group that holds them.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 07:34 AM

Ditto Paul Burke's comments.

My prayers go out for the peace worker's safety and for the safety of all in that war torn nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 08:25 AM

Hi Paul Burke:
I PMed those who posted here, but for some reason I can't find you on the PM list. Feel free to email me at [e-mail] and I will send you the message I have sent the others.
All the best
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Janie
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 08:26 AM

E-mail on the way.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Pied Piper
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 08:36 AM

Good luck

PP

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 09:27 AM

Good luck! from one raised Catholic.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: danensis
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 04:26 PM

If the american imperialists (backed by lily-livered Blair) had not tried to annex Iraq for its oil perhaps the indigenous freedom fighters would not find it necessary to kidnap innocent people to attract publicity?

From what I read on quaker-l the world is going to end next year so I wouldn't worry too much about things until then.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 07:30 PM

Thanks to all who emailed... still some time. peace. lor

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 08:21 PM

Just sent an e-mail. Missed the thread until now.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 09:01 PM

John Rouse - 06 Dec 05 - 04:26 PM

"If the american imperialists (backed by lily-livered Blair) had not tried to annex Iraq for its oil perhaps the indigenous freedom fighters would not find it necessary to kidnap innocent people to attract publicity?"

Exactly John Rouse, couldn't agree with you more, they would have just gone on killing torturing and maiming approximately 154 to 282 Iraqi people per day. Feel better?

Now go away to a place where you feel nice quiet and secure and thank whoever for guarding that place for the fact that it is so. While you are there could you please tell us all exactly what those people (i.e. the kidnappers) want to offer the population of Iraq that will spiritually and materially improve their lives - I, and I suppose, a great deal of other Mudcatters would like to know. As you appear to be the fount of all wisdom pray tell (lilley-livered Blair as well).

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 08:29 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 08:55 AM

Oh hell, you've attracted the anti-peace campaigner in.

No, the fact is that had the Americans not invaded Iraq, these brave people would still have been at risk, because they would have gone wherever else they were required. It's what they believe in, and their strong beliefs give them the motivation to try to do something to make the world better.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 09:37 AM

Email sent

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:35 PM

They are the people that will help Iraq find peace; they have the courage to care and try and help despite the danger. Lets all hope and pray they are released unharmed.

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:40 PM

I've done a couple of things but I wish there were more one could do. Thanks, Lor.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:51 PM

They have announced that they have extended the deadline to Saturday.

Source

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 05:04 PM

these people knew what they were getting into. It is too bad but they are way too naive.

You are dealing with a serious enemy of the U.S. and UK here. the way our prisoners are treated is nothing compared to the ones who cust off heads.

This is going to end in tragedy, I am afraid. When are the peaceniks going to realize we are dealing with an irrational enemy of hate?

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 05:40 PM

I hope you're wrong martin, but have to agree my instinct is it isn't going to end well. They are in the orange jump suits now and I can't begin to imagine what must be going through their minds.

It is easy to say they are naive and should know better etc but maybe some people are born with a 'vocation' that surpasses anything we can comprehend. In another situation those people could help to save lives. I wouldn't criticise their intentions or selflessness. But if I was the son or daughter of Kember I would have begged him not to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Janie
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 06:07 PM

Thanks for link Ebbie. My fervent hope and prayer is that they will be released. If that is not to be, then may they have planted seeds of peace in just one mind that will germinate and bloom as witness to their courage in the face of their realistic fears.

As I read Tom Fox's blog, it seems he understood full well the danger into which he was going. He is not there to support the terrorists or insurgents. He is there as a witness in action for peace and compassion in the world. I agree with Paul and Guest of 5:40pm. These are people acting out of a clear sense of calling and vocation who have carefully examined themselves before deciding to put themselves in harm's way. They are not naively acting in "blind faith." I know I could not walk in their shoes.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 07:04 PM

On last night's Nightline they interviewed Tom Fox's daughter. She too is Quaker, so she has a better understanding of the ideals that her father lives by, but the situation is obviously very hard on his family.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 07:09 PM

John Donne

Meditation XVII: No man is an island...

No man is an island, entire of itself
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main
if a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were,
as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were
any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls
it tolls for thee.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 08:58 PM

Not in the interest of debate, but to cast some light on the "naivite" of the CPT. Generally, when one goes into a war zone, as the Red Cross does, in a spirit of love and peace, one is seldom killed as an object of war. Accidents and missunderstandings do happen. CPT ... and Quakers are not one one side or the other, Quakers are on the side of peace. Our loving concern has not gone unnoticed by folks on all sides. In that light, I would like you all to read a public letter about the CPT.
________________________________________________________
In the name of Allah, the Compassionate and Merciful

"O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done."-The Holy Qur'an, 49:6

The Islamic and National forces in the governorate of Hebron/Palestine express their deep regret for the kidnapping of four members of the Christian Peacemaker Teams (CPT) in Iraq.

The Islamic and National forces in the governorate of Hebron/Palestine have had long experience confronting Israeli crimes and violations with the CPT since 1995, and wish to confirm that the members of this group have had and still have a major role in confronting Israeli crimes and violations, and in the protection of the property and the lives of the Palestinian citizens.

More than once they placed themselves in front of the occupation's tanks, and they confronted Israeli occupation bulldozers with their bodies defending Palestinians' homes against destruction. They accompanied our children when they were threatened and attacked by Israeli settlers on their way to and from their schools. Because of what they were doing, the CPT members were subjected to arrest, beating and pursuit by the Israeli soldiers and settlers in more than one location in Palestine. Many of them were denied entry to Palestine, or deported by the occupation authorities because of their activities in confronting the occupation.

We appeal to our brothers in the resistance and all those with alert consciences in Iraq, with whom we consider ourselves to be in the same trench confronting American aggression and occupation, to instantly and quickly release the four kidnapped persons (two Canadians, one Briton and one American) from CPT, in appreciation for their role in standing beside and supporting our Palestinian people and all the Arab and Islamic peoples.

Freedom for the Iraqi and Palestinian people.
Shame and disgrace on the Zionist and American occupation.

The Islamic and National Forces in the Governorate of Hebron:
Islamic Resistance Movement/Hamas
Palestine People's Party
Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
Democratic Union of Palestine/FIDA
Fatah
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine
Palestinian Liberation Front
Palestinian Popular Struggle Front

Hebron, 29 November 2005

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 09:00 PM

My letter, printed in Al Jazeere last First Day...

An Open Letter to our Brothers holding Tom Fox and other CPT members in Iraq:

Dear Brothers in the one God:

It is early morning in America. I am a Quaker and I am trying to find words to stay your hand. I can only say that hatred is blind and love is unconditional.

Many people from our nation have come to your nation in blind hatred and killed innocent people. Tom Fox is not one of these people. He came to your nation with all his human fears, because his love was unconditional. He came to ask his own people not to kill you. He came not to judge you, innocent or guilty, but to say live together in peace and find a better way. He did not come to change your government, but to change our own people's hearts towards you.

He came to your country in the same light that Rachel Corrie went to Palestine to stand in the way of Israeli tractors destroying Palestinian homes. To spare Tom Fox and his companions is to show the Israeli people that it was wrong take the young life of Rachael Corrie.

I ask you to stay your hand, because we will still love you, no less or no more, if you break our hearts by taking the life of these good people who love you.

I ask you to stay your hand because you can. When you stand before your God, next to the American who wore an army uniform, next to the one who drove the tractor that killed Rachael Corrie, and our God asks each of you, why have you taken the lives of innocents, what difference will there be in your answer? When, some day, and I pray after a long life of loving works, Tom stands before our God and is asked why he placed his life in your hands, I think you know his answer. Because hatred is blind and love is unconditional.

"Whoever has saved a life, it will be as if he has saved the life of all mankind" (Quran 5:32)

Gods love and mercy to thee

In unmovable Friendship

Lorcan Otway

A member of the committee of Ministry and Counsel for the New York Quarterly Meeting
of the Religious Society of Friends
also known as Quakers.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 10:35 PM

Beautifully put InOBU.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: gnu
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 05:12 AM

Yes... beautifully put.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Barry Finn
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 05:58 AM

The Quakers have been sticking their necks out here in America since the days of slavery when most others accepted it as the norm. Is there a problem that they continue as a religous group to stand as a tower of hope & help? If you don't agree or care to help them in their path, fine, that's ok too but don't get in there way & start tossing up road blocks. We should all be lucky enough to have a voice backing us when in our most desprate need.

I'm not a religious person at all, though I do believe in humanity. InOBU I hope for the best & wish a safe return.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 08:15 AM

Thanks for the PM Larry, Quakers have been sticking their necks out and going in harms way for the sake of peaceful beliefs for over 300 years. During bothworld wars, The Quaker Ambulance Units treated injuries from all sides of the conflict. It is only logical that Friends should be found in a war-zone doing their best for peace. given this tradition we hope the kidnappers will recognise their true purpose and release them

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 08:27 AM

Thank you friends:

I did not want to have this thread be a debate about Iraq. So forgive that I kept the issue vague until the latest extention. I do think the voices of many people are reaching those holding our friends.

For people on any side of the issue of war or peace, I assure you that if you find yourself in a similar situation, we will be trying to help with equal concern.

Thy friend
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: ranger1
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:02 PM

Well put, Bruce. I was actually thinking of the those same lines myself. Reflecting on this, isn't it interesting that those who teach peace and compassion so often find themselves in harm's way?

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Ferrara
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 09:13 PM

Here is a link to Tom Fox's blog. Reading it is an eye opener, he has literally been able to "bear witness" to the experiences of the people among whom he works. It's worth reading. I have only read a few entries so far but I want to read every word, in time.

http://waitinginthelight.blogspot.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 09:28 PM

Lorcan:

I don't believe that Rachel Corrie was a Quaker, nor was she acting on behalf of peace. She died in a tragic accident that she had a great part in precipitating.

Comparing Rachel Corrie to Mr. Fox is a grave disservice to Mr. Fox and the cause of truth, and trying to gain 'traction' with some vicious terrorists by picking on the Israelis is contemptible.

Having said that, by and large I have found the Society of Friends to have a tradition of faith and courage that few other committed groups can compare with, whether I agree with them on a particular issue or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 09:49 AM

Dear Robomatic:

Not to debate the issue. Rachael was in fact Jewish. She was very close to the Friends in the Olympia Quaker meeting. Like those in the CPT, she stood in the way of people who sought to bulldoze homes in a clearnence of people who lived on their land for, in some cases, generations. She did so, armed only by her beliefs. She may have had a political agenda, which some Friends do, or some Friends don't. But to say she died in a tragic accident is to ignore or be unaware of certain facts.

    In point of fact, the tractor driver saw her, and knew she was there. One can see this in photographs taken from several vantage points of the tragic death of this young girl. He has a clear sight line of her, and drove over her, several times. As far as Isreali culpability, he was not charged with any crime. If this happened on a building site in most places in the world, he'd have been arrested at the outset of the investigation. Members of the CPT have accompanied Palsistinan children to school, in the face of assaults by Israeli settlers. They also bore the self same witness that Rachael Corrie bore, standing in front of Isreali Bulldozers. This has resulted in their being beaten, and kept from being allowed to go to Isreal.
I understand that there is a huge difference of oppion on the politics of that region. Frankly, I don't support any faction in the political struggle. I beleive peace will come when folks decide that peace is an end in itself, and it is not the eliments of a division which will win out, but rather a shared desire to live in peace.
There is not a right or wrong side in war. Wars are not fought to end wrongs, they are fought in such a way that wrongs ensue.
Whenever I think of Rachael, which I do often, I pray for the man who killed her. That must be a terrible burden on his soul, even if his government did not choose to punnish him for his actions. The state of Isreal did not drive that 32 ton machine over a young girl, he did. The wieght of that must be horrible to bear.
Thine in the light
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 12:51 PM

Lor:

I appreciate your thoughts on the issue, and I am not going to change the focus of this thread. My reaction was genuine as I understand the issue and obviously differs from yours. I yet think it was a diversion, possibly a pander, to write of it as you did in your letter, and possibly counter productive to your aims. I understand you wrote as you felt, and I earnestly hope that the four are released, as the other captives now being held by various 'insurgents' (one from Alaska, now).

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 01:33 PM

Robomatic... fair enough, well said. Peace. Lor

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 02:34 PM

Noises being made about 20,000 troops being sent home after the election. Maybe it will be enough to buy more time.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: SunnySister
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 02:48 PM

Lor,

Thank you for bringing this horrible situation into a personal perspective for me.

I was sending my thoughts and prayers to all of the hostages, as well as their captors- now I feel much more empowered to spend much more time on their release.

Thank you for caring and sharing with us. May the four men's commitment to peace and non-violence inspire their captors to release them, may others join in the fight for peace by their example.

-- SunnySister

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 04:06 PM

BTW What Makes You Think Rachel Corrie Was Jewish?

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 04:08 PM

Thanks SunnySister... I know the prayers of folks all over the world are being felt by the CPT members and their captors.
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Willie-O
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 12:15 PM

This possibly-tragic situation is having the surprising effect of bringing the most unlikely combinations of people together--turns out the vast majority of us (globally) whatever our politics and beliefs can find it in our hearts to respect and honour the sincerity and dedication of these activists.   

Here's hoping it turns out well for them and their families. Here's wishing they hadn't felt needed there in the first place.

And in the spirit of unlikely cooperation, let's not see this thread turned into yet another yelling match...it's actually been pretty good so far.

Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 03:35 PM

Lor, has anyone heard anything yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 08:32 PM

We have not heard anything yet.
Robomatic, I read the article you provide from an Israeli Journalist. I offer this in reply, from an Boston Globe editorial by Rachael's mum, I hope folks read the whole artical, but this I think says quiet a lot more, than saying that because people in her movement met with violent folks, that proves they were not pasifists.

"Rachel was an unarmed peace activist trying to prevent the demolition of the home of a Palestinian pharmacist, his wife, and three children. She believed that nonviolent direct action against the Israeli occupation would make Palestinians, and also Israelis and Americans, more secure. Rachel stood there to protect a home and family in Gaza because the United States and Israel rejected a UN proposal to send international human rights monitors there. International activists went instead. Rachel stood there protesting illegal home demolitions that the United States opposes on the record yet fails to stop -- destruction that we support with billions in annual military aid to Israel for bulldozers, Apache helicopters, F-16s, and more.

Rachel wrote to me from Rafah: "This has to stop. I think it is a good idea for us all to drop everything and devote our lives to making this stop. I don't think it's an extremist thing to do anymore. I still really want to dance around to Pat Benatar and have boyfriends and make comics for my coworkers. But I also want this to stop." "

I understand that one's support of Isreal sometimes blinds one to the wrongs they do. I acknowlege wrongs on both sides. I believe in fair treatment for both, and nonviolence. I find it sad that folks justify to any extent the killing of this young promising woman.

Thine in the light
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 03:26 PM

Lor:

Thanks for the reply, but you seem to be stressing some unadressed inaccuracies from your earlier post and pure emotionalism in your latest. You did not actually address the question, and assuming Rachel had the best of intentions she made things worse not better. She reminds me of the character in "Prime Of Miss Jean Brodie" who goes off to the Spanish Civil War and is not only killed but is on the wrong side when she's injured.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 09:23 PM

Any news?

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 09:31 PM

Not so yet, SINSULL.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 09:46 PM

I had some Quaker oatmeal for breakfast today.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: SunnySister
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 11:29 PM

I look for news every day and don't know if I should be hopeful or in despair for these men. I can only slightly image how their families feel.

I have sat outside an operating room, counting the minutes; I have sat next to a dear one who was taking their last breaths. Each breath, I felt my heart hit something hard and scared as I waited and watched for another intake and exhale, holding my breath in a dance of time, and anxiousness.

With that said how must their loved ones feel faced each day with the knowing that those they love and who love mankind and peace may be tortured and horribly murdered for their kind and true hearts?

As I say, each day I wait for news. Each day I wonder what more I can to speak in tones of peace these men have sang.

Lor, please know you are also in my thoughts.

---SunnySister

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 11:43 PM

There is now film footage of the execution of the man from Anchorage Alaska (originally from North Dakota) but that should be no indicator of any such planned fate for these four peaceworkers. The Alaska man was accused of being part of the Security detail although his family says that he was a mechanical engineer.

The four peaceworkers are being held by a different faction, and surely there has been enough outcry - including by some Iraqis - of their innocence that there is cause for hope.

{{{{{ Hug for Lorcan }}}}

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 20 Dec 05 - 10:28 AM

Sunnysister, if they are murdered it will not be for their kind and true hearts. It will be for the blocks of angry, vicious rock in the chests of their captors. Pray for the changing of THOSE hearts. There's a prayer in the old (1928) Book of Common Prayer (Episcopal church) that starts: "Almighty God, who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he may turn from his wickeness and live..." It's one I think of and invoke frequently these days...Tw

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 05 - 11:01 AM

Paul Burke and in OBU,
I am honored to know you if only in the internet virtual sense, for the work and words you promote in the name of PEACE.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Paul Burke
Date: 20 Dec 05 - 12:35 PM

I don't know what I did to deserve that, Donuel.

The German archaeologist was released. Let's hope for the best for the others.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: SunnySister
Date: 20 Dec 05 - 12:42 PM

Tannywheeler- You are very right! I am thinking of them too. How must it be to carry that much anger and hatred around???

Thanks for reminding me of that prospective as well.

--- SunnySister

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Dec 05 - 01:52 PM

Tannywheeler I am familiar with your prayer from the identical version of it in Hebrew.

I am very sad and upset to learn of the death of the Alaskan who was shot in cold blood. I hope the other captives make it out alive.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Dec 05 - 06:09 PM

"...these people knew what they were getting into. It is too bad but they are way too naive." A comment that might very apprpriately be applied to the people who set in train the invasion of Iraq. But they have made sure to sit safely out of harm's way, and leave the dying to others.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 04:32 PM

"It's always the old who lead us to the wars;
It's always the young who fall . . .".

Phil Ochs

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 01:38 AM

Still keeping these men in my heart and consciousness.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 08:40 AM

Dear All... I just got back from a few days runing about Bucks and Lancaster County... it is so nice to see that our Friends are so in your prayers...

And dear old friend Robomatic... as to dieing in the wrongs side of a war... the older I get the more I realize there is no right side of a war, but there is definatly two wrongs sides.

I will remind you that not a single death camp was liberated, unless the American or Alied armies ran across it... we all knew where they were and what they were, and no rail lines were bombed, and the so called right side destroyed the lives of the "premature anti facists... " right after the war...

I heard to elderly Jewish fellows at the great dinner, Odessa a few years ago. One was saying :
"You know, what I would do with BOTH sides in the middle east? I'd tell them stop it. Go to your rooms... both of you!"
The other fellow, " Well the Arabs started it with... "
"Don't tell me that! " The first said... " When your kids are acting up, fighting, do you ask who started it? No! You tell them, Go to your room and stop fighting, stay there till you can behave! That's what I would tell BOTH! No Levi Jeans! No Nike Sneakers! NOTHING! GO TO YOUR ROOMS! "

Beleive what you want about sides, dear fellow, war is the only enamy.
We can no longer afford war. As you see the melting of the ice caps, and the drownings of polar bears, extinctions don't stop with one species we can fight over who is right and who is wrong until we all die, or we can stand in the way of war... and if that becomes the solution, we live. simple as that.

Merry Christmas, Joyful New Year, Happy Kwansa, Happy Chanukah, Peaceful Ramadan, Boutiful Davali, and good Festivus for the restofus,

Peace
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: SINSULL
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 08:54 AM

Ahhhh but you forget, InObu. Festivus involves a test of strength fight between father and son. Same old. Same old.
Very strange but my inner self tells me that these men are at peace, not dead necessarily, but at peace in their hearts. No fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: InOBU
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 12:20 PM

Mary, you refect a message that came to me, and I delivered at Meeting a few First Days ago, about what it is to walk through the shaddow of the vally of death and fear no evil...
It is not to be devoid of the human fears and concerns for our lives and families, but as you say, to be at peace with those who believe that they wish to do you harm. In fact, often it is not you, but you as a symbol they wish to harm, just as we are killing many over their as symbols, but real flesh and blood and pain and fear results ... but, that to be at peace, to be without fear of evil in all that, is to fill that void of evil with love, and I know, ( not am sure... ) I know, that Tom and his friends are filling that void of evil with love, whatever the outcome, they fear no evil.

Peace and joy this Christmas season
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: gnu
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 12:55 PM

Again... beautifully put, lor and others. Thoughts and prayers continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 01:56 PM

Sinsull and Lor's last two posts are my "reading" for today. Thank you both.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: jacqui.c
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 02:20 PM

Very much so Ebbie.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: KT
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 07:21 PM

Lor, I'm so glad to read your post and the confidence you express in their peace of heart. That is what I have been praying for since hearing of their ordeal, and will continue to do so. I can only imagine the strength of spirit one must posess to attain that state.
In gratitude for all who work for peace,
KT

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 07:50 PM

Ditto that.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Janie
Date: 10 Mar 06 - 10:19 PM

I am so very saddened to learn the death of Tom Fox has been confirmed. I continue to hope and pray for the all those who are hostage, especially the other three members of the CPT in Iraq.

Condolences to Mr. Fox's family and all who loved him. He was truly a peacemaker. May the seeds he planted bloom in the hearts of many.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 10 Mar 06 - 10:21 PM

Well said, Janie.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Janie
Date: 10 Mar 06 - 10:33 PM

Here is the link the CPT release regarding the death of Mr. Fox.

http://www.cpt.org/iraq/response/06-10-03statement.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Mar 06 - 10:38 PM

The man who hanged the Quaker martyr, Mary Dyer, becamed convinced of our faith by her gentle bravery. As I think of Tom, I think of Mary Dyer and pray for all responcible for his death.
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 07:45 PM

Good luck, Larry. I honor your effort to save the live of your fellow Friend and grieve with you that he was not spared.

Subject: RE: BS: Emergency, Quakers on Mudcat
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 01:05 PM

I am saddened by the death of a soldier for Peace.

His mission was no less significant than the death of a military soldier.

His bravery will be a light for all of us who want a peaceful world.