BS: Iraq: Define Victory....

Subject: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 07:58 PM

Well, well, well...

Seesm that with all the Iraq threads going on I'm not too sure what "victory" means as related to Iraq...

Bush says that we are going to have victory before we leave but after "Mission Accomplished" what more can victory mean...

I'm serious...

Like waht has to transpire there...

Is Suzie Creamcheeeze skipping down the sidewalk with her cocker spaniel following her with Mr. Smith, the mailman, delivering the mail in the background, ahhhh, victory???

Or is Iraq being broken up into 3 countries with the United States an occupier forever a victory???

Or is killing all the Sunnis a victory???

Or maybe Thomas Jefferson crawling out of the grave to deliver (insert violin music here...) democracy to a region that since WW I has only been kept from civil war by a strong dictatorship???

Yeah, what exactly is victory???

The goal posts have been moved so many times it's kinda hard to know when anyone has either lost or won...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: Amos
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 08:45 PM

Hell, they moved the whole playing field altogether. Used a bunkerbuster, I think....

A

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 08:53 PM

A Republican President in ought eight.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 08:54 PM

I think victory (to Bush) means complete control of the Iraqi oil fields by the U.S. and Britain. It also means that a U.S. presence must be maintained to protect Israel. In addition, the U.S. must be able to use the air bases in Iraq to insure trade relations with Azerbaijan.

Of course its not possible but thats the way Bush wants it to be. Then again, Bush has God on his side, so anything is possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 09:01 PM

"the rapture"??

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 11:37 PM

"Complete control of the Iraqi oil fields by the U.S. and Britain." - How??

"A U.S. presence must be maintained to protect Israel." - And this could not be done far more effectively from Israeli territory??

"The U.S. must be able to use the air bases in Iraq to insure trade relations with Azerbaijan." - How does one use airbases to insure or ensure trade relations with any country??

But Dianavan is correct, none of what she suggests is possible because it is all idiotic hogwash as it was to suggest it in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:22 AM

Teribus -

If its all idiotic hogwash, why bother to reply?

Fact is, teribus, only you and Martin seem to agree on the state of the world.

I'm awfully glad you dropped in though, how could we argue about what is right unless we had examples of wrong thinking. People like you only strengthen my resolve to make this a better world for all of humanity instead of a select few.

Whats really pathetic, however, is the fact that neither you nor Martin gain anything by supporting Bush. Well, I guess if you work for him, you might, but in that case, you might have a little trouble convincing St. Peter that you engaged in right livelihood while living on earth.

I guess everyone makes their choices. As far as I am able to determine, Bush was elected by greedy, self-serving people. Too bad They'll never see any of the spoils of this war. Thats what makes their defense of Bush all the more pathetic.

Sad little, cowards supporting the bully because they are so weak themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:36 AM

dianavan - 08 Dec 05 - 12:22 AM

Dianavan you have been asked three questions related to what you believe the US Government defines as "Victory". You have made no attempt to answer, the rest of your post is an attack on the messenger.

So:

1. How does the US and Britian completely control Iraq's Oilfields?

2. How does a US presence in Iraq protect Israel? After all they have supported Israel for damn near the last fifty years without such bases in Iraq, so why should they need them now?

3. How does one use airbases to insure or ensure trade relations with any country?

If you have no answers please desist from trotting these out in the form of some sort of mantra every time the subject of GWB, the US or Iraq comes up.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:04 AM

teribus - I defined what I thought victory (to Bush) meant, just like the original post asked.

If you have a problem with that (or you don't understand) then I suggest you read a little more Mudcat or why don't you just google, Iraq, oil or Azerbaijan. I've tried explaining things to you before but I think there is something wrong with your comprehension.

Actually, you don't seem to be able to comprehend anything except blind loyalty to your hero.

I'm waiting to hear what you think victory in Iraq might possibly mean.

Instead of attacking me, why not answer the question in the original post?

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: mg
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:19 AM

i would define victory as basic safety for law-abiding residents so that they could deliver mail, walk their dogs etc...go to work...the oil would be flowing and benefiting the Iraqui people, rebuilding their infrastructure, developing world-class universities, technical schools, employment programs etc. It would probably involve some martial law for a while, and things would be heavily miltiarized, either by Iraqis totally, a multi-national force, or primarily still U.s. troops..who i hope don't have to stay too long. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 05:57 PM

mg-
After all that's accomplished, maybe we could have a victory or two here at home? DC, maybe, or Detroit or Camden?

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 06:45 PM

Victory in Iraq - hollow words when there is little water and electricity but much looting, violence, groundless arrests by occupation forces and kidnapping by your countrymen.
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushflight31.jpg

W behind the wheel gives you an idea of W as a Bush pilot.
Makes me wish he really did try to land on a carrier. http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushcart.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 08:06 PM

That second picure, Donuel, is precisely why the Secretary of the Navy put his foot down when the Commander-in-AWOL asked if he could "try" to land the plane...

Heck, I would have said, "Knock yerself else"....

But, alas, drunk frat boy, inspiter of his Commander-in-Crash status wasn't checked out on carrier landings and hadn't been chwecked out on this plane either... Plus he hadn't had the required flight physical... Plus he was no longer a licensed pilot so the Secretary did what he had to do...

"Sorry, Mr. President' but Bobert has a better chance of landing a tail dragger Cub than you have landing anything we have that flies..."

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 08:37 PM

When asked about that flight on the carrier W actually said "Yes I flew it".

No two ways about, I will forever misunderestimate Mr. Slumpy.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 09:29 PM

Well, taking the stick for a few minutes and keeping the plane pointed on a particular compass heading ain't much of a trick.

Yeah, he probably did fly it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 09:39 PM

Yeah, the missin' part is about the all important landing, whcih Bush definately didn't do...

But, hey, my chal;lenge to hi is fir life so should he ever sober up long enought o complete the tour of duty that he riped off the taxpayers for and wants to take me up on the carrier landin' challenge, I'm ready, willin' and able...

Plus, while we're on challenges, my three round fist fight challenge is still on the table. I win and he pulls outta Iraq... He wins and I gotta kidd Teribus's butt...

Ahhhh, the anticipated sopellin' bee challenge for the Iraq pullout has been cancelled since it has been brought to my attention that even though I can prolly land the Cub, and more than likely take the drunk frat boy out in the 1st round, he might be able to holdhis own with me in a spellin' bee...

Hey, I might be crazy but I ain't stupid..... 'eer maybe its the other way 'round???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:09 PM

Mr T doesn't seem to understand rhetorical questions that once asked demonstrate for themselves that no sane or rational answer is possible. You guys must be right, he is a plant (ooo, leave THAT one alone!) who sits at a desk typing generic replies he doesn't understand the full implications of, to questions he doesn't really understand that are passed to him.

The main thing is to keep the 'discussion' rolling - right past your eyes before you get a chance to THINK!

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:11 PM

The motto is PROMOTE OBFUSCATION!

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: GUEST,Reggie
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 11:47 PM

Piers Morgan, editor of the UK's Daily Mirror newspaper, has stepped down in the wake of the scandal surrounding apparently-faked photos showing abuse of Iraqi prisoners by British troops. In a press conference Friday, the Queen's Lancashire Regiment showed reporters uniforms and equipment which it said proved the photographs were faked. One picture appeared to show a British soldier urinating on an Iraqi victim crouched on the floor.

Colonel Black, a former regiment commander, said the pictures put lives in danger and acted as a "recruiting poster" for al-Qaeda.

The regiment's Brigadier Geoff Sheldon said the vehicle featured in the photographs had been located in a Territorial Army base in Lancashire and had never been in Iraq.

He said the QLR's reputation had been damaged by the Mirror and asked the newspaper to apologise because the evidence they were staged was "overwhelming".

Referring to the soldiers responsible, he said: "Whoever did this has committed a despicable act and I hope they are found out and receive an exemplary punishment."

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: Hrothgar
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 02:36 AM

Victory for the Coalition of the Willing, or Victory for the Iraqis?

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 06:03 AM

The only thing that could possibly be described as a victory in Iraq would be the coalition forces shipping out with nobody trying to kill them as they leave, and a strong Iraqi government presiding over a country at peace with itself.

Can anyone here count high enough to calculate the odds abainst that happening?

The likely scenario is the last troops being helicoptered out under fire, leaving a country which will immediately descend into civil war and a takeover by another, and quite probably worse, dictator.

Anyone remember Nam?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 06:27 AM

... but he will probably want to still sell the oil...

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq: Define Victory....
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 08:51 AM

"Victory has a thousand fathers ... ..Defeat is an orphan."

John F. Kennedy