BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Old Guy
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 12:31 AM

"a menace that law enforcment failed"

Quite the opposite. A menace that the law sucessfully eliminated as per the laws of the land.

His gang however is still killing innocents and he refused to do anything to stop that.

Bobert, the self appointed spokesman for all Americans, says Bush is worse than Tookie Williams.

Before assumes his leadership position, perhaps he should find out some facts.

December 08, 2005
Support for Death Penalty Steady at 64%
Slightly lower than in recent past
by Lydia Saad
http://poll.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=20350&pg=1
"Public support for the death penalty has held steady in the past few years, but Gallup's long-term trend indicates that support is significantly lower today than it was through the 1980s and 1990s. The recent debate about the number of innocent people on death row may have been responsible for the slight decline in support in 2000, but it is unclear whether that issue retains as much oomph with the public today."

Canada Is not at all stupid on this one:
http://www.cpa.ca/ogloff.htm
"Despite capital punishment having been abolished in Canada 20 years ago, the majority of Canadians continue to favour the death penalty (approximately 65-75%) have indicated that they would support a return of the death penalty"

"In the latest ABCNEWS.com poll, just more than six in 10 Americans favor the death penalty for people convicted of murder"

"Pew Research Center for the People & the Press survey conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. Dec. 7-11, 2005. N=1,502 adults nationwide.
12/7-11/05
http://72.14.207.104/u/peoplepress?q=cache:E3X5_g0ZnCIJ:people-press.org/reports/tables/253.pdf+death+penalty&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8
Do you favor or oppose the death penalty for persons convicted of murder?"
Favor 62%
Oppose 30%
Unsure 8%"

Also in this poll the group that most favors death penalty for murder
is a white male        with $50,000-$74,999 income, High School Grad.,30-49

Got any facts to support your position Bobert or just more Bobertisims?

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Once Famous
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 11:33 PM

Arne, completely untrue. I love women so much it hurts. People who think that they have got others figured out because of what they think about the gay "lifestyle" are the ones, like yourself who are the most threatened by it. So what is your gay agenda, Arne? Gay Olympics, gay travel, gay marriage?

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: number 6
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 11:18 PM

Tookie co-wrote those children's books along with Barbara Cottman Becnel. It appears too much credit has been given to him in being the sole author.

He was a gangster, murderer and manipulator without human concience right 'til the end. I'm sure where ever he is he has found true justice.


sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: GUEST,The Greek
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 10:50 PM

Sorry Dudes, "Tookie" paid the piper for killing of four innocents. Why weren't the protestors for tookie. crying for the lives of the pople he killed? He is just another punk from Compton (where I lived in the 40's and 50's), and he started up a gang of thieves and murders. This empire he started spread throughout the U.S. Then he writes "wonderful" book telling kids to not join gangs. Sorry Punk, too little, to late, you be dead now and with the devil!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 07:39 PM

Hey, Ian, don't blame the average American... He or she is too busy trying to pay Boss Hog's bill's to have time to give much thought to much of anything else...

Please forgive us collectively for we have little or no power to effect change in Boss Hog's so-called "democracy"...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: GUEST,Ian Nottingham
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 07:31 PM

Well they really have excelled themselves today!
A 77 year old!

I will never set foot in the USA again.

Ian
Nottingham UK

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 07:10 PM

Requiring murder as a rite of passage...

Somehow that sounds very much like the way the death penalty is seen by some people on this thread.

Never mind, America, you've still got China and Iran and a few more like that in your corner when it comes to legal killing. But I don't think there's ever been another country where they keep people locked up for a quarter of a century, and then ritually kill them.

As for the Terminator, it sounds like a case of like father, like son.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Peace
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 03:25 PM

His legacy to the living.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Peace
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 03:22 PM

And what difference would an apology have made?

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: stevenrailing
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 03:21 PM

Good riddance. Killed four people, two innocent elderly folk who posed no threat, did not apologize until recently. Deserves his punishment

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Peace
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 03:18 PM

Bye bye, Tookie, bye bye.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: number 6
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 01:56 PM

So mote it be !

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: kendall
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 01:51 PM

It's all been said.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: gnu
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 12:31 PM

No, those are sparks off my heels while I take off outta this thread. See yas.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 11:36 AM

Sweet Hesperus I can't see for the sparks flying off the grinding wheels!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: David C. Carter
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 09:47 AM

We heard on the news here,that the next guy for the death jab,is blind,in a wheelchair and has already had a heart attack.He sounds really dangerous to me.Better send him off pronto.Set him free and God knows what havoc he's liable to do.Er...what's that somebody said,he wasn't in a wheelchair when he did his nasty deeds?Well well,there's a surprise.Didn't think of that one!What do you do If the guy dies before the date of execution?I bet they'll still give him a jab,just so's the crowd from the sandpit can get their regular orgasms.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: number 6
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 11:28 PM

I'm not arguing with that Bobert .... they're just harder to convict.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 11:25 PM

Yeah, even if they are presidents...

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: number 6
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 11:19 PM

"So, who's the next evil convicted criminal to get it and deserve it?"

Saddam Hussein ... but then is there any proof of his butchering, or is 'just a victim' himself?

Then again, all murdering thugs say they are innocent

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Beer
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 11:07 PM

I'm with you Gnu.
Beer

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Once Famous
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 11:04 PM

So, who's the next evil convicted criminal to get it and deserve it?

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:24 PM

Ahhhh, seems to me that if this guy was a menace that law enforcment failed... Hey, they knew the guy was a manace...

When I was in socail work, all it took was a phone call to a judge, get a "green warrent" and the menace was outta the general population... I know these provisions are still in place in most staes so when I hear folks sayin' stuff like "Hey, there was nuthin' we could do" I think that there's one too many cop in a doughnut shop or one too many socail worker who is so burned out that they don't have the balls to pick up the phone...

Most nutballs have social workers somewhere keepin' up the case files...

And I', speaking as a former socail worker in Virgina, a very conservative state... Hey, if a nutball can be stopped in Virginia a nutball; can bve stopped on Mars...

Just too many folks in law enforcement and social work who have bought into that "My hands are tied" bullfeathers....

BObert

BTW, during my years in social work I initiated quite a number of "green warrents" which prolly saved a few lives....

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: number 6
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 09:59 PM

"After a couple of elderly friends of mine, country and folk performers BTW, were chopped up last year (one beheaded), I began to favour the death penalty again. But hey, that would be murder, right? Fuckin right."

That was a tragedy gnu ... they were a super nice couple. This couple had complained to the law about being harassed by this guy a couple of times before, and of course nothing was done. Maybe this creep will get out in 15 years, after writin' a few kids books about how not to get involved with drug crazed skinheads.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:48 PM

Ahhhh, first of all, Old Guy, my apologies... I am right in the middle of living in a construction site and most of my files are boxed up and in the barn somehwere... That means I don't have access to the hundreds and hundreds or articles I have cut out of the Wwahington Post...

Even, sniff, the story I was going to relate to you about the Afganistani who started a magazine and had an article in it where he said that women deserved the same fundamental rights as men... He was arrested by the same folks who used to be part of the Taliban and is now possibly facing execution for standing up for human rights...

I have very slow dial up here in this holler so trying to find the article is like finding a needle in the haystack but it was in an article within the last week in the Washington Post......

The point is that in Afganistan, the areas outside of the cities are falling back into life that more closely resembles the pre-invasion Afganistan, with Islamic extremists calling the shots... Yeah, you can feel free to challenge this premise 'cause I can't get to any of my stuff right now but maybe Ebbie or Dianavan or someone else who has a faster computter and maybe more time can provide a couple links to back this up...

Ahhhh, as fir "new ideas" I once offered a program here in Mudcat that wopuld be more of a win-win alternative to not only the death penalty but also incarceration in general... The basic premise of the program wuold be to create public/private partnerships between inmates being part of company/corporation... Not like work release but like prison production plants... No, not making license plates for the state but making dishwashwers, 'er hose reels, 'er widgets...

This would do a couple three good things... First, it would create a relationship for ther inmate with a company and so when the inmate has done his time he moves into a jobh waiting for him. Second, it would be a move towards "corrections" which punishment isn't. Third, the wages earned by the inmate could go toward paying "restitution" to the victims of the crime... I've been the victim of crimes and have never felt the system did much to compensate me for my losses...

Take a man who has killed someone... That someone might have been the primary bread-winner in the family and now the bread-winner is gone... Hey, if we can get the labor out of the killer and turn that into compensatable wages to the victims we have win-win...

Lastly, Big Mick and others... Me and Freda can take Fat Boy Arnold... I may be skinny just as I was back in my karate days but the big guys didn't want to sapr with me then and I don't think Arnold is all that tough... It's all mental... Plus, Freda can grab hold on one leg of Fat Boy and skinny me then can use the ring to embaress Arnold... Bad 'nuff being a Fatso but even worse with only one leg you can get to move...

Arnold goes down in two...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: gnu
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:33 PM

Here's my buddy Fred.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: LilyFestre
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:33 PM

Let me say upfront that I have not followed this case at all, nor have I read all the posts here...but I've read enough to get the gist of things.

I think that anyone who purposefully kills another human being should simply meet the same fate they handed out. I also think the family of the deceased should be allowed some free time with the killer, unsupervised, of course.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: gnu
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:24 PM

Ooops.... Here she is.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: gnu
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:23 PM

Sorry ebbie... a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bernardo/">Here she is.

Sick as she is. Murdered her own sister. And she is out.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: GUEST,A
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:18 PM

gnu, I have a sharpening stone if you need it. I understand how you feel. We have the same thing with victims families traveling to parole hearings and still the "life sentence" becomes 25 years.

Assuming Tookys' books have had a positive effect (sad that it takes something like that to change an attitude) then perhaps a footnote could be placed in all his books;

"The Author of this book was put to death in December, 2005. He has paid the ultimate price for his henious crimes against Society."

"Ps, he was not awarded the Nobel Peace prize."

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:13 PM

Who is 'Karla', gnu? I

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: kendall
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:12 PM

"Bleeding hearts" AAAAARRRRGGGG!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: gnu
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 06:53 PM

I think we could (should?) all agree with Mick, who put it so well. But... if this guy hadn't gone down, the bleeding hearts would have let him out of jail and put him on a soap box, eventually. And I can't agree with that.

Maybe if "life" was actually "final"... look at the Canadian system, where victim's families and others have to go, sometimes at great expense, to parole hearings to keep murdering scum in jail a few years longer. (No, not Karla. BTW, why is she out?) There's a piece a shit living just up the road from me that shoulda died for what he did... but he got life... served twenty-five years. He woulda been out in twenty if the victims families had not objected at the hearings... every year for four years. A cold-blooded executioner of two policemen during a kidnapping. He is doing well now, so all can rest easy, except the two families he destroyed.

After a couple of elderly friends of mine, country and folk performers BTW, were chopped up last year (one beheaded), I began to favour the death penalty again. But hey, that would be murder, right? Fuckin right. Pass me the sword he used on my friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: GUEST,A
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 06:48 PM

I basically agree with Mick also. Well, except for the part where he says he loves bobert.

What does the death penalty do - it at least prevents a killer from getting out due to escape or a loohole. Plus, the upkeep costs are eliminated. I have never understood the annual cost for maintaining a prisoner. The average person could stay in a decent hotel, eat 3 average meals out and it would not cost as much as it does to keep one imprisoned.
I think it was this thread where someone said an inmates appeal are done pro bono. Wrong! Many attorneys make a good living by representing these people. The taxpayers foot the bill. I think he mentioned civil rights cases caused a law firm to fold. Doing pro bono is at the disgression of the law firm.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Raptor
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 06:27 PM

The housekeeping workers in the death row at san quinton were rumored to say " No Tookie No Laundry" Today.

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Arne
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 06:12 PM

I also agree with Mick (at least to an extent), and for the reasons I mentioned in previous posts. Trying to give a "deterrent" by killing someone once they've already committed the crime doesn't make a whole lotta sense. So I'd guess that the folks so hot up for "deterrence" must be thinking we're going to give some kind of message to the kids in gangs then (and hopefully a different and more uplifting one than "Tookie" WIlliams was giving them). Sounds to me like the message we're conveying to the kids -- in gangs that are rife with the concepts of "honour" and "payback" and "you mess with us, we'll mess with you, you hit one of ours, we'll hit one of yours..." -- is that when a gangmember takes a life, we're going to demand "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". Yep, that's the ticket....

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 05:49 PM

I feel the need to throw in my two pen'urth - Says more about me that the subject as well I guess. Whether that's good or bad I don't realy know:-(

I am anti-death penalty. Not out of any leftish or liberal ideals - Simply because I don't understand the gain. OK, they won't do it again - Lock them up and throw away the key and they won't do it again either. It can never be a deterant - People don't commit crimes expecting to be caught and punished so how can the sentence deter them? Finaly - Revenge. Yes, I agree with that one and cannot honestly say if anything happened to my loved ones I would not want some served good and cold! I hope I never have to find out but I like to think I could rise above it.

A favourite writer of mine once said there are a lot of people who deserve to die and are still alive. There are also a lot of people who deserved to live that are now dead. Who amongst us should decide who should live and who should die?

I Agree with Mick as well btw.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: GUEST,A
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 04:10 PM

It is my conclusion that Freda is correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Raptor
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 04:02 PM

I think the real crime here is letting people get to know you by the name "Tookie".

Raptor

P.S. The Crips have Killed millions over the years and Raped thousands in most North American cities.Started by the Tookster himself. Don't act like this guy is a nice guy cause he wrote a few kids books. If I was on death row I'd become Dr. Fuckin Zuess if I thought that might save my ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: kendall
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 02:59 PM

That kind of punishment is harsh to us, but, "If you know the dog bites..."

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Arne
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 02:22 PM

Old Guy:

George Bush removed the Taliban from power in Afghanistan, thereby eliminating their executions of women accused of adultery. We saw one of those executions taped secretly. We also saw barrels of hands cut off as punishment for theft.

You misspelled "Dubya's good buddies, the Saudi royal family" and "Saudi Arabia". But news for you, Old Guy: Dubya hasn't removed these repressive people yet. They still stone adulterers to death and cut off hands.

On another note, the "emancipation" of women in Afghanistan has had a few setbacks along the way, with the Taliban (still in control in wide swaths) and/or tribal chiefs and warlords giving at best lip-service to the new "freedoms", while in practise, it's almost as difficult nowadays for women to do anything in Afghanistan outside the capitol....

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Arne
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 02:15 PM

Freda:

... big hugs for a man with a big heart! (and that's NOT you, Arnie)

Huh? How do you come to that conclusion?

Oooops. Sorry, were you talking about our 'sterling', silver-plated, and thoroughly "for show only" Governator Ahnold???? Please indulge me here on this site, and refer to him by his full name; I want no association to that sagging, muddleheaded, steroid-soaked wind-bag of an impostor of a deliberative person.....

Matrin Gibson:

Arnold will tear you both apart.

Have you seen that sagging bag lately? Seems he's shrivelled a bit (perhaps to Maria's dismay) since they pulled the steroid needle from his veins....

Martin Bigmouth again:

bobert, I could have sworn you said that you have friends in queers.

So do you. You just don't know it (or admit it). Possibly like you don't admit it in yourself. You do know that the most homophobic makes are the ones that show the most arousal when shown homosexual porn, right?   Denial, denial. Maybe that's what makes such people such good Republicans.... ;-)

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: gnu
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 02:06 PM

He swore innocence to the end... I wonder if he is sticking to that story with the devil? I wonder if the devil is forgiving him?

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 11:07 AM

I know a lot of killers who bragged about things like the yelp black kids would make when they shot them in the head. Some of these folks were policemen and some were veterans. Thankfully none of these braggarts are still employed in the killing business, but they will never be executed for their sanctionsed crimes either.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 11:01 AM

a resurection? could it be?

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: GUEST,Geoduck
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:44 AM

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

The world will not end up toothless and blind. Only the victims and the criminals.

I don't think Tookie said any prayers.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:43 AM

This thread is more about Mudcat than it is the death penalty, some things never change.Fuck Tookie, he should have been done in a long time ago, but don't worry, his legacy will go on, his descendants will still require murder as a rite of passage, they will still recruit by force, they will still terrify entire cities and they will still supply drugs to children, not to mention how they treat their "Bitches". So I won't cry for this scumbag murderer, until he cries for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:33 AM

Why execute people? Just give them some facts and turn Bobert loose on them. They will beg for a swift execution after being subjected to his violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:24 AM

Woo hoo i'm in! Administators shut down websense this morning :) I can't figure out why this site is considered entertainment but some of the other forums i'm on are not. Oh well..

I'm not sure what the subject of this thread is? If the subject is should Tookie have died, the answer is yes. He was tried and sentenced legally.

If the subject is whether or not we should have a death penalty, then my vote is yes. And in MUCH greater numbers. I would propose any sentence with 20 or maybe 15 years with a death penalty. I also agree with another poster that there needs to be a time limit to appeals. Perhaps a seperate judicical committee that would allow one or possibly two appeals within a year.

The main complaints that there is no correlation and that the cost is too high is due to the application of the death penalty. Unless there is the political will, there will be neglible benefit. The reality is that there are very few executions. Certainly not enough for the numbers to be nothing more than a rounding error in consolidated criminal statistics.

Morally, I take issue with some of the posters. They make a moral state that it would turn us into barbarians or that we would be not better then they.

As far as I am concerned, the individual who commits a crime that is so heinous as to deserve 20 years in prison is in my eyes a rabid wolf who needs to be put down. Are all people equal? Absolutely not. If the individual were like you or I then these moral arguements would carry weight. But things are not the same. It is their 'difference' that makes them treated 'differently'.

I can't help but to see their arguement sliding into pacificism. If murderers are not worthy of death then who is? What about foreign nations bent on subjugating our population? Are we allowed to defend ourselves? When is it ok to kill?

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:13 AM

Once again, Mick, I side with all you've said.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Tookie: Say Yer Prayers
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 09:28 AM

I have seen the best of Mudcat and the worst of Mudcat. This thread goes more to the latter than the former. We have a fella who is against the death penalty talking about whupping someone. Aside from sounding very foolish, he further goes on and calls a man who brutally murdered folks and bragged about it, who threw acid on guards, and had a death row conversion, a hero. What's wrong with this picture?

We have others rejoicing in state sanctioned murder, and acting as if it is fair, even in light of the DNA project of the near recent past.

The only folks with any credibility are folks like SunnySister who simply oppose the death penalty. I do as well. Here is why.

The maturing of society should equal growth in our laws and our national conscience. The inability to understand that killing someone because they killed someone is insane. Second, it has been shown time and again that this punishment primarily hits folks that can't afford big time lawyers. It is not meted out in an impartial way. I would much rather attack the root causes of the violence, and get the publicity for that cause, than publicity over someone like Tookie. Another problem with it is that there is no way to correct a mistake. Once they are dead, mistakes such as the type that caused the conservative Republican Governor of Illinois to suspend all executions, cannot be rectified. Death penalties, if we are to have them, must have a burden of proof that is beyond all doubt.

Spare me all this "Tookie was a hero" horseshit. He was a cold blooded killer. He bragged about the gurgling sound the family made when he shot them in the back. When you tell me that we should weigh his life after his conversion, I say OK, but only if we balance it with his deeds prior. This man started an organization that is responsible for untold misery, and deaths. He broke the law, was convicted by a jury of his peers, and suffered the legal penalty. I would prefer that he be put in a cell with no room to sit down, and be forced to work at hard labor for the rest of his natural life. No TV, no special privileges, and prison fare to eat. That would be a punishment that would be far worse than death.

The death penalty is barbaric, doesn't deter anything, is nothing more than revenge, and lessens us all when it applied. To sit here and try and act like this criminal was a hero takes away from the legitimate case against it.

And by the way, Bobert, I love ya and all ...... don't care much for Arnold ...... but he would whup yer skinny ass.

Mick