 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Christmas Thread for Christians...
|
|
|
Subject: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bobert Date: 21 Dec 05 - 08:29 PM Well, I went to the other Christmas thread and found it not inviting or filled with Christ... This is a time when those of us who know Christ celebrate His life, His teachings, His love and His sacrifice for all of us... So, to my fellow followers of Christ, I'd just like to say, Merry Christmas... Love to you all, Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: leftydee Date: 21 Dec 05 - 09:28 PM Bobert, Although I'm not a Christian , I'd like to wish you all the blessings of your Holiday. Merry Christmas and a peaceful New Year. Lefty |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Dec 05 - 09:37 PM "those of us who know Christ" How can you know someone who never existed? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Dec 05 - 09:39 PM There ya go, Bobert, and in record time. Sigh..... You'd need to ask Joe Offer privately if this can be moderated thread like the Veterans Day thread we've had, I think, two years' running. ~Susan |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Once Famous Date: 21 Dec 05 - 09:47 PM I believe Christ was a fine and good MAN. I'm sure Jesus would be happy that sales are up this year at Best Buy. This thread cannot be for just Christians. Non-Christians are entitled to their opinions on his position in the scheme of things. Have nice HOLIDAY. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bobert Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:11 PM Thank you, Martin, and even tho I intended this thread to be for those of us who are Christain, it's nice to have others stumble in with well wishes... This thread is not about politics but Faith... There's always time for politics but not nearly enough time to profess our Faith... So, yeah, happy holidays to you, Martin... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:14 PM Cool thread, Bobert... why is it not surprising that the majority of posts were already running anti-Christian? Tell ya what, folks... Howzabout letting us Christians have Christmas and you other folks can have the other 364 days. What if we promise not to immediately post critical, sarcastic and judgmental comments if you want to start a thread titled 364 days of not celebrating Jesus Christ? Sounds like a fair deal to me.. And Martin, why constantly scream foul, claiming that people are anti-semetic when you are so obviously anti-Christian? Enjoy your Holy days and good for you for having faith. How about showing equal respect? Jerry Oh yeah, almost forgot: Merry Christmas, Bobert! What a joyous season! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Seiri Omaar Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:25 PM Merry Christmas everyone! May your holidays be filled with LACK OF SNOW!!! ... ..... Hey, I live in Ottawa. It's frigid. Gahhhh! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: GUEST,khandu Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:29 PM Indeed! A Merry & Grand Christmas to you all who celebrate the greatest gift every given. Ken |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bobert Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:38 PM Now this is a Christmas thread... No offense to the other one, but, hey, no flamers yet, just folks wanting to profess their Faith... Nuthin' like it... Nuthin... Peace and love, Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bard Judith Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:38 PM I posted this in the thread entitled 'Spirit of the Season' (the title being the inspiration for the poem, as you can see...) but will take the liberty to post it again for a different audience. :) Hope you all have a blessed Christmas which strengthens your relationships with family and friends, enables you to have a restful vacation from your everyday work, and refreshes your soul! --------------------------------------------- i have the spirit of the season and it's definitely bailey's irish cream especially when combined with hot chocolate coming in from the canadian cold after taking my little girl tobogganing for the first time taking off dripping boots drying over the hotair vent mug cradled in hand watching her open an early christmas present with wide eyes and stopping at the creche to say 'happy birfday baby jesus' so i drink my spiked hot chocolate putting the mortgage worry away thankful for employment and health and family love made the world and keeps it going round ja/05 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Biskit Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:53 PM A Very Merry Christmas! tis' good to remember the reason for the season. God Bless us every-one "Tiny Tim" Peace On Earth, Goodwill to all Mankind. Peace! Through Understanding ~Biskit~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 21 Dec 05 - 11:10 PM And I think of the hymn, Blessed Quietness that became almost a signature piece for Lucy Simpson. One of the best Christmas Eve's I ever had was right after a brutal and destructive divorce when I found myself alone on Christmas Eve. My sons were visiting their Mother, so I just went for a drive in the country. It was a cold, clear moonlit night with freshly fallen snow and the lights on the houses were a beautiful backdrop for a starry, starry night. I missed my sons terribly that night, and was still feeling battered and beaten from the divorce, but for me at least, there was Peace On Earth. At least in my little corner. And I never felt so loved. Jerry May all know that peace, whatever your beliefs. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bobert Date: 21 Dec 05 - 11:32 PM I've always said that the Lord looks after fools and kids, Jerry... I think, like me, maybe you have a little of the double coverage in ya'... No matter, when the spirit is the Lord lands within ya, whoa, yer eat up!!! I been eat up so many times in my life that I couldn't begin to give testimony but on this Christmas I'd just like to tell ya all a little story... I was 6 years old and I had polio... I was in the Crippled Childrens Hospital in Arlington, Va... The doctoras were tellin me and my folks that I might not survive and if I did I wouldn't walk again.... My mom came to the hospital every night and she read from the Psalms and she read from the New Testament but she also taught me to talk with the Lord and to ask Him for help... I remember other kids dieing... Yet I not only recovered but I walked, played sports and.... But this ain't about me... It's about God's *will* and here we are about to celebrate Jesus's life and I can only say that I owe it all to Him, the Father and the never sleeping Holy Spirit who kicks my butt every day... But beyond the testimony is the strngth of our spirit... And the love that we have for our Lord... A happy birthday, Jesus, my rock, my brother, my Lord... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Arkie Date: 21 Dec 05 - 11:47 PM Bobert, Jerry, and all Mudcatters who find joy in this wonderful season, Merry Christmas from the southern tip of the Ozarks. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Pseudolus Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:31 AM Bobert, you're a good man, Merry Christmas to you! And a Merry Christmas to everyone who reads this and is willing to accept the greeting! Frank |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: dianavan Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:18 AM I sincerely hope that the light shines on all of us in this season of darkness. Be thankful for your family and friends. Peace to all. Goodwill to all. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: GUEST,Fossil shortly to be not in NZ Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:46 AM I'll be spending Christmas Day, all 28-odd hours of it, alone on a series of planes between Wellington, Sydney, Bangkok and London Heathrow, where I arrive at 0530 on Boxing Day. (Sobbb.....!!!) But I hope all the rest of the Catters have a wonderful day, filled with love and blessings. And thanks, as the dolphins say, for all the fish... Fossil |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Dave Earl Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:52 AM " Howzabout letting us Christians have Christmas and you other folks can have the other 364 days" You don't want Easter then? Happy Christmas Dave |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: KT Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:43 AM Here's something I've been pondering lately.....just what is it that has made Christmas sacred for you in the past? By sacred, I don't necessarily mean the birth of Jesus, I mean your own, personal experiences of the season that have held it as mysterious, and sacred for you, personally. One of mine is the hearing and singing of ancient, traditional carols that have been sung by people for centuries. The thought of a cold, dark, winter evening, warmed by voices raised in chorus in the singing of those songs which have been handed down through the ages. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Georgiansilver Date: 22 Dec 05 - 04:36 AM The thing is Clinton Hammond....we Christians believe we do know Him..and have a close relationship with the 'risen' Lord. Because you don't believe He rose again after death, as the scriptures tell us...you don't believe it is possible to have a relationship with Him. The Bible does say 'seek and you will find'. I found Him in my forties and am so happy to celebrate 'Christ'mas for what I believe are the right reasons. Not knocking anyone who chooses not to believe, we all have choices...and whoever you all are out there....enjoy your Christmas/holiday season in your own chosen way and hope you all have a great New Year. Love and Peace, Mike. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 08:04 AM Hey, Breton cap: You got me there... lol.. I guess the reason I said that is Easter doesn't generate the attacks or excesses on BOTH sides of the aisle. Ironically, while everyone kinda agrees that they wish for Peace on Earth, many folks only wish for peace for those who agree with them, or who are generally "nice" people. And it's the folks with the biggest yaps who get all the attention. On both sides. That familiar phrase, "Peace on earth, good will toward men" is a couplet. "Peace on earth" gets all the press, because it feels good to mouth those words. The "good will toward men" part requires something from us. That's a different story. It's like. "Yeah, of course.. I want peace on earth... but you think I'm going to have good will toward that idiot?" Yeah, that's what it's about.. sincerely having good will toward people who we have a strong dislike for. If "God is love," and we are to love our neighbor as we love ourselves, then every Christian should love George Bush, and wish him well. No wonder Christianity isn't more popular. It's just too hard to practice what we preach. As they say, it's one thing to "talk that talk." It's quite another to "Walk that walk." I have as much trouble with it as anyone. Anyone who thinks that Christianity is an opiate for the masses should try to live what Christ taught. It ain't all pie in the sky... it calls us to live as Christ lived... In another setting, it would be good to have a conversation about how we can sincerely have good will toward men. But, not here on Mudcat. No matter how hard it may be to live, I desire good will toward men. If we could all truly have good will toward men, "Peace on earth" would take of itself. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 22 Dec 05 - 09:04 AM God rest you merry, one and all. Keith. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 09:26 AM Bobert, thank you so much for posting your childhood experience with Jesus, the Wisest, most Joyful and Loving Healer of All. I owe Him my life too. But He teaches me to pay off that debt by loving and helping others, every day of my life, as best I can. Merry Christmas to all, daylia |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Wesley S Date: 22 Dec 05 - 09:59 AM As usual there is a sad lack of tolerance here at the Mudcat. For the record I consider myself a Christian. That is due to the fact that I was born in the Midwest { USA } and my parents were Christians. That doesn't make my God superior to whatever God you do or don't worship. I'm not here to convert anyone. If you don't believe in a higher power of some sort - that's fine by me. And no - I don't think you will burn in Hell forever and be poked by little devils with pitchforks. So how about a little tolerance here ? If I want to believe in a higher power of some sort - what's it to ya ? If some of us want to talk about it - what's the harm ? It's like a radio station - when it starts to play something by Madonna or Brittany you can just change the channel and ignore it. I get a little tired of folks who insist on coming to a Christmas thread to tell us that we are misguided - or fools - or mentally ill - or that He never existed. I know I'm supposed to turn the other cheek but what I want to tell folks is to just bugger off. But I won't - so peace on earth - goodwill toward men - and God bless us everyone. No exceptions. Wesley PS - It doesn't matter if Jesus existed or not. The important thing is His teachings still exist. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" are pretty good concepts. Maybe we should start putting them to work here. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: GUEST,bbc at work Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:30 AM Merry Christmas, folks, & blessings of the New Year to you. May God help us all to see His face in the faces of those around us & open our hearts to love them w/ His love. bbc--alive & practicing my faith--till I get it right ;) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:38 AM Hey, Barbara: Remember, practice makes us a little bit better. Have a beautiful Christmas... Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:40 AM Christians have thousands of other venues and opportunities to celebrate and share their faith with likeminded folk. There's a plethora of Christian discussion forums on the internet, a Christian church on just about every streetcorner in every city, town and hamlet across North America. THere's Christian TV, Christian radio, Christian newspapers, Christian prayer and support groups, Christian bookstores, and on and on and on .... So why bother putting Jesus in the limelight on a forum like this one, where it's obvious that for so many folks any reference to Christianity -- or any other spiritual/religious beliefs -- is considered invasive, offensive, and fair game for attack? It's not hard to see that posting about Jesus here just sets Him, and you, and all Christians up as a target for ridicule and abuse. Why do that to Him, to yourself, or to anyone you supposedly love? Silence can be one of the greatest of all virtues, when it's practiced in humility for the benefit of all. Come to think of it, is Peace possible at all, without Silence? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:40 AM Amen. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Wesley S Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:55 AM So Daylia - If it bothers someone - just don't talk about it ? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:02 PM I'd be curious over a year's time how many threads are started in here attacking or belittling Christianity, versus those who are expressing their beliefs in Christ. I'd be very happy to have Christianity and all religious conversations taken completely out of Mudcat if those who are always lambasting Christianity and anyone who believes in God would agree to stop posting threads on religious and faith topics. Catters can't have it both ways... thinking that freeedom of speach allows them to start endless threads attacking people who believe in God, while complaining if someone expresses their own beliefs isn't "logical." I'd personally be very agreeable to not mentioning God again, if the subject didn't keep coming up in threads denouncing believers. Let me know when that happens.. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Amos Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:07 PM I would suggest for reflection that the winter solstice, which occurs right around now, has been the object of celebration and awe for more thousands of years than there have been Christians about. The USE of this deeply ingrained, cyclical and tribal celebration to also represent a Christian holy day is of fairly late development. It is perhaps unfortunate that during the period of growth of the CHurch of Rome, the celebration was over-ridden with the significance of Christ's Mass, or his birthday, even though there is no evidence his date of birth was in mid-winter. THere is awide-spread pattern of co-option in thehistory of the expansion of the Roman church. For example, throughout Mexico the major temples in various regions were torn down by the Spanish who then erected cathedrals and churches on their sites. In order to ease the cultural transition, the Spaniards would take the ancient temple names and add the name of a Christian saint to them. One example is the village of Santa Maria de Tequipexpan, just off the periferico road outside Guadalajara. Tequipexpan was the site of many ancient pyramids and a temple, and the major marketplace and annual celebration site for the Indian residents for hundreds of miles around. So it was just good PR to keep the name and overlay it with the trappings of the new religion, making it more palatable. The local Indians still gather outside the carthedral there every year to have their own ceremonies, drumming and dancing. SOmetimes this annoys the proest who is trying to conduct mass inside, and he comes out and has an argy-bargy with the befeathered and painted chiefs of the older rituals. I mention all this to simply point out that everyone has their own reasons for celebrating mid-winter, and some of those reasons predate Christianity. Calling it by a Christian name does not change the deep roots of the season, nor should it be considered a proprietary or exclusive occasion, in my opinion. Amos |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:09 PM That's right, Wesley. IMO, anyway. I figure unless someone sincerely and in good heart asks about my personal beliefs and opinions, and I feel it's worth the time and effort to share such things --- why bother? Most people I know would rather listen to anything other than someone else going on and on about their religion or spiritual beliefs. No matter how banal that "anything" might be. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: MMario Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:21 PM *daylia* The problem with not bringing up Christianity or Christ is that for some of us - Christ cannot be seperated from our views, opinions, thoughts and life. As several priests I have known admonish their congregations - the church doesn't stop at the red door. I *try* to take a low key approach, but sometimes it is hard. Even the best behaved dog occasionally bites back when hit every couple of minutes. And these days, many Christians feel like that abused dog. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:25 PM And these days, many Christians feel like that abused dog. Buddhists call that karma ;o) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Wesley S Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:28 PM Daylia - I don't care for Swedish fiddle music. When I see a thread that is clearly about Swedish fiddle music I have two clear choices : 1 - I can ignore it and not open it. 2 - I can open it up and ridicule everyone in the thread for their taste in music, that they are idiots and savages for listening to it and tell them that - since I don't like Swedish fiddle music - that they shouldn't talk about it. After all - Most people I know would rather listen to anything other than someone else going on and on about Swedish fiddle music. No matter how banal that "anything" might be. Which option should I choose ? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:31 PM Wisely put wesley |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:37 PM Wesley, with all due respect, this is a discussion forum. Bobert knew that when he started this thread. He's well aware that playing Swedish fiddle music annoys some people in this forum. Pre-emptive dismissal of dissent is a well-worn fallacy. In his own vernacular, I guess his chickens done come home to roost. Merry Christmas (and turn that music down!) ;o) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:54 PM I know, MMario. ANd I understand completely what you said too, Jerry. I think it's kinda strange I posted my thoughts about the virtues of Silence here, just after Bobert's wonderful Christmas story gave me the courage to witness for Jesus as Divine Healer myself. Sometimes I really don't understand myself at all ... Truth is, I love Jesus so much I can't bear to think that any ill-timed or ill-placed words of mine might draw more pain or ridicule or abuse His way. (Not that such ridicule or abuse harms Him, mind you, just all the rest of the people involved) It's doubly difficult for me, I think, because no matter what my personal relationship with Jesus might be, I do not label myself as "Christian". I can't, for many excellent personal reasons. My own spiritual understandings and practices have evolved in a way that leave me an outsider in any religious organization or spiritual group. So it's been quite the long, lonely haul. And a much more peaceful one when I have the strength and presence of mind to practice silence as a virtue. Which, as most of you here know, is certainly not always the case! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:56 PM "Howzabout letting us Christians have Christmas and you other folks can have the other 364 days" Sure... when you give back everything your religion stole... oh wait.. that includes X-mas doesn't it... and Easter.... and ever single one of your other celebrations... "we Christians believe we do know Him.." Ya... I have an anut who believes she hears voices from the coffee maker and the toaster oven but if she takes her meds, it's not so bad... The Greatest Scam Ever Told |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:08 PM Clinton, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to practice tolerance, patience, respect, compassion, and silence here. I want you to know that you, and everyone who thinks and talks like you are playing a unique, vitally important and most appreciated role in my life; certainly a role that none of my spiritually-like-minded (or semi-like-minded) friends or anyone who cared for me personally could play! You are helping me become a stronger, wiser, more loving person. I'll never develop bigger biceps if all I lift is feathers, after all! So please, have yourself a wonderful holiday, all the best to you and yours, and thank you again Clinton! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:21 PM Daylia: Truth is, I agree with what you said about limiting discussions about Christ and Christianity. Two things I just about never discuss in the "real world" are religion and politics. Both topics rarely generate a respectful discussion. Most of the time, it's two people taking turns talking. The listening is mostly done by the talker, admiring their own lucidity and impeccable logic. It's pretty funny, when you get right down to it. Like two balloons trying to out-inflate each other. My conversations on religion outside of the Cat are either with other believers, or non-believers who respect the beliefs of others. I've had endless, actual conversations with people who are Atheists, Agnostics, Jews and Muslims where I believe that we came away with a better understanding and appreciation for each other. I dearly love Art Thieme, although we have very little agreement on spiritual matters. One of my sons is an Agnostic, and we've probably had the best, most thoughtful and respectful conversations on faith that I've ever had with anyone. I shared many years of enjoyable conversation with Jewish friends of mine, done with love and respect. I find all those conversations enlightening and mutually strengthening. That never happens in here. If it was possible, I'd love to have a respectful conversation about why people believe they exist, and what they are attempting to do in their lives. That's not going to happen in here. If it did, I think that Agnostics, Atheists and Jews would find much common ground. Atheists don't necessarily disagree with the teachings of Christ, many of which are shared by Buddhists and Jews. After all, Christ was a Jew. I could imagine sitting down with Bill D some evening, talking honestly about our philosphy of life, without rancor or insult. I think that we'd find that we have more in common than might immediately appear, even though Bill doesn't cotton much to faith. No one ever has any positive effect on another person unless they make it clear that they like and respect them. That doesn't happen nearly as much in here as it should. Respecting someone doesn't mean that you can't strongly disagree with them. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:21 PM Oops I guess I wasn't really practicing Silence there, huh? arrrgghhhhh ... oh well. I know I can count on Clinton to provide many more such opportunities, asap. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: gnu Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:54 PM Gosh. Quite the, ah, discussion, born of a simple, kind gesture. And I mean that from BOTH "sides". Whilst not a Christian, allow me, Bobert, to wish you, and all, a very Merry Christmas. Oh... anyone not wishing to be wished a Merry Christmas can simply ignore my wish, wishy-washy as that may seem. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:01 PM Don't you find you muss up you hair with your head that far down in the sand? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:02 PM Thanks, and a happy Gnu Year! Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: skarpi Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:55 PM Merry christmas , all All the best Skarpi Iceland |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: gnu Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:07 PM Ah... Clint... if that was directed at me... No. I am bald. What a pitiful attempt. I would have expected better from you. Merry Christmas, whether you like it or not. Peace on you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Epona Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:11 PM Merry Christmas! E |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:19 PM "if that was directed at me... No. I am bald." It was not... and I feel your pain Gnu... getting that way myself Best wishes in this, the season of gorging, to ya! |
