BS: sheehan arrested?

Subject: BS: sheehan arrested for Tshirt?
From: Kaleea
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 02:37 PM

OK, at the risk of causing general mayhem, what's up with that? I'm not asking for opinions of her cause, just the facts of the arrest. OK, & maybe opinions of the arrest, as we'll all have one!
    I saw on abc Good Morning America that Cindy Sheehan was arrested for "disorderly conduct" although she was a ticket holder for the "state of the union" address. Her brief quote was something like "I was arrested, handcuffed, & thrown in jail for wearing a T-shirt." The footage showed her in a T-shirt showing what looked like the number of troops killed in Iraq. I did not see any other coverage of this on the other 2 major networks, & I don't get cable news.
Here's what I want to know--was she just sitting there wearing the T shirt? Did she scream & yell & behave in a "disorderly" way? It is difficult for me to believe that with all the media we have in the USA, no footage of her before & up to the arrest is available. Does anyone know the facts? Is it now against the law for someone to wear slogans or anti bush stuff during the state of the union address? Surely there is more to this story.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 02:42 PM

Amazing how little there is about this in all the fluff coming out of the media on Bush's buckwing show.

A

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Pseudolus at Work
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 02:44 PM

She was arrested before Bush ever got there. I read it on MSN...

Sheehan arrested

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 02:45 PM

Here is the lady's statement about what she experienced at the SOTU event:

Dear Friends,

As most of you have probably heard, I was arrested before the State of the Union Address tonight.


I am speechless with fury at what happened and with grief over what we have lost in our country.


There have been lies from the police and distortions by the press. (Shocker) So this is what really happened:


This afternoon at the People's State of the Union Address in DC where I was joined by Congresspersons Lynn Woolsey and John Conyers, Ann Wright, Malik Rahim and John Cavanagh, Lynn brought me a ticket to the State of the Union Address. At that time, I was wearing the shirt that said: 2245 Dead. How many more?


After the PSOTU press conference, I was having second thoughts about going to the SOTU at the Capitol. I didn't feel comfortable going. I knew George Bush would say things that would hurt me and anger me and I knew that I couldn't disrupt the address because Lynn had given me the ticket and I didn't want to be disruptive out of respect for her. I, in fact, had given the ticket to John Bruhns who is in Iraq Veterans Against the War. However, Lynn's office had already called the media and everyone knew I was going to be there so I sucked it up and went.


I got the ticket back from John, and I met one of Congresswoman Barbara Lee's staffers in the Longworth Congressional Office building and we went to the Capitol via the undergroud tunnel. I went through security once, then had to use the rest room and went through security again.


My ticket was in the 5th gallery, front row, fourth seat in. The person who in a few minutes was to arrest me, helped me to my seat.


I had just sat down and I was warm from climbing 3 flights of stairs back up from the bathroom so I unzipped my jacket. I turned to the right to take my left arm out, when the same officer saw my shirt and yelled; "Protester." He then ran over to me, hauled me out of my seat and roughly (with my hands behind my back) shoved me up the stairs. I said something like "I'm going, do you have to be so rough?" By the way, his name is Mike Weight.

The officer ran with me to the elevators yelling at everyone to move out of the way. When we got to the elevators, he cuffed me and took me outside to await a squad car. On the way out, someone behind me said, "That's Cindy Sheehan." At which point the officer who arrested me said: "Take these steps slowly." I said, "You didn't care about being careful when you were dragging me up the other steps." He said, "That's because you were protesting." Wow, I get hauled out of the People's House because I was, "Protesting."

I was never told that I couldn't wear that shirt into the Congress. I was never asked to take it off or zip my jacket back up. If I had been asked to do any of those things...I would have, and written about the suppression of my freedom of speech later. I was immediately, and roughly (I have the bruises and muscle spasms to prove it) hauled off and arrested for "unlawful conduct."


After I had my personal items inventoried and my fingers printed, a nice Sgt. came in and looked at my shirt and said, "2245, huh? I just got back from there."


I told him that my son died there. That's when the enormity of my loss hit me. I have lost my son. I have lost my First Amendment rights. I have lost the country that I love. Where did America go? I started crying in pain.


What did Casey die for? What did the 2244 other brave young Americans die for? What are tens of thousands of them over there in harm's way for still? For this? I can't even wear a shrit that has the number of troops on it that George Bush and his arrogant and ignorant policies are responsible for killing.


I wore the shirt to make a statement. The press knew I was going to be there and I thought every once in awhile they would show me and I would have the shirt on. I did not wear it to be disruptive, or I would have unzipped my jacket during George's speech. If I had any idea what happens to people who wear shirts that make the neocons uncomfortable that I would be arrested...maybe I would have, but I didn't.


There have already been many wild stories out there.


I have some lawyers looking into filing a First Amendment lawsuit against the government for what happened tonight. I will file it. It is time to take our freedoms and our country back.


I don't want to live in a country that prohibits any person, whether he/she has paid the ulitmate price for that country, from wearing, saying, writing, or telephoning any negative statements about the government. That's why I am going to take my freedoms and liberties back. That's why I am not going to let Bushco take anything else away from me...or you.


I am so appreciative of the couple of hundred of protesters who came to the jail while I was locked up to show their support....we have so much potential for good...there is so much good in so many people.


Four hours and 2 jails after I was arrested, I was let out. Again, I am so upset and sore it is hard to think straight.


Keep up the struggle...I promise you I will too.


Love and peace soon,


Cindy

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 03:02 PM

Yessir, the Good Old U.S. of A- protecting freedom.

Unless you disagree with George the Third & his Junta.

And folks wonder why the Iraquis think all this American "freedom and democracy" talk is crock of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 03:05 PM

This is disgusting, abusive conduct on the part of the Party Junta. I spit.

A

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 03:08 PM

Fucking hypocrits. Today, the little marionette says he understands the people's worries. Bullshit!

Thanks, Kaleea, I missed the news this morning and didn't know about this. I am grateful Cindy is going to pursue First Amendment rights over this.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 03:20 PM

Story here.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 03:36 PM

There is more to this story - Beverly Young, the wife of a republican congressman from Florida was "removed" from the gallery as well. She was wearing a t-shirt that said "Support the Troops — Defending Our Freedom."

It is interesting that the story only mentions this woman as being "removed" - not arrested.   

It is also interesting that this story did not circulate as much as the Sheehan story.   Both "sides" could have plenty to say about that.

Neither T-shirt was disruptive to the proceedings of the evening. If any building in DC should allow for debate and protest, it is the Capitol.

Rather than blame politics, I blame a security system that has it's collective head up its ass.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: DougR
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:05 PM

Demonstrations FOR or AGAINST are prohibited in the nation's capital. She was a guest of a "Lefty" California Congresswoman who should have known Sheehan would not be allowed to stay wearing that T-shirt.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: CapriUni
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:06 PM

Well, during the campaign for the election, George Bush made sure that he only had supporters in the audience for his "public" speaches, and, on several occasions, had local police ban people from attending if they had anti-Bush bumper-stickers, tee-shirts or buttons. The behavior inspired me to make this icon for my blog.

So I think it goes deeper than "a security system that has it's collective head up its ass."

But, as far as I can tell, that was legal (barely), if he chose to make his speaches in the open to an invitation-only audience.

But this? To arrest someone who was someone else's legal guest?

Feh. I think George Orwell may have gotten it right... he was just 20 off....

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: DougR
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:06 PM

Capital building that is.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:07 PM

So what about the wife of the congressman DougR? Why wasn't she arrested as well?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:08 PM

.. and what is your problem with "lefty"? You don't seem to have a problem with being a "righty"? It is different shades of the same problem.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: jeffp
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:13 PM

God forbid that any political activity should take place in the Capitol building.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: MMario
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:26 PM

Based on her own account it would seem that the arresting personage did NOT know who she was. And to claim not to wish to cause any disruption and then wear that t-shirt to the event is not very believable.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:28 PM

No, he is not a Nazi.

The problem here is that we end up in name calling and sticking to party lines and throw all common sense out the window. The biggest problem this country faces is a lack of common sense and allowing ourselves to let others think for you.   Debate is important, but that has been replaced by people making wisecracks and repeating lines they hear from various pundits.   It is easy to call someone a "leftist" or a "righ winger", but far harder to understand where that person is coming from and how they develop their thoughts.   

In the not so distant past, senators and congressman would vote with their conscience. People would think for themselves.   Now we simply regurgitate the crap that we hear on radio, tv and newspapers. Look at some of the posts here on Mudcat and you will see what I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:00 PM

We have a similar law prohibiting any demonstrations may they be pro or contra the government politics in too close proximity to the Bundestag. We had the experience of brown-shirt stormtroopers intimidating and abusing freely elected representatives. That why we now have that law as a general rule which applies whether we agree with a particular opinion or not. There are no exemptions for good causes. You can wear a T-shirt with a slogan any place you want but not in the Bundestag.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: gnu
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:01 PM

Oh, come on now. As much as agree with you guys, The State of the Union Address is hardly the place for protest of any kind. Perhaps, instead of protester, Mike should have yelled, "Poor Taste."

Seriously, I find her actions rather childish. Being rude is not going to get her or her cause anywhere. Surely such behaviour only detracts from the message she is trying to spread.

And... a lawsuit? Which has no chance of winning? And even if it did, how many more will die before fuck all gets done? Good lord... the Enron trials might get underway this year? Exxon Mobil just posted a $36.13B profit for 2005? You, the richest nation on earth, outsource ALL your flu vaccine? The largest and best Corps of Engineers on the face of the earth were beat to Katrina victims by firefighters from another country? 2,245 and counting? A tee shirt? A tee shirt? It's about time ye lads put your collective cause where your mouth is and get organized.

But, I have faith. Y'all did well in the past, many times on many things. A little slow getting up to speed maybe, but, admirable in the end. So, don't mind me. I'm just a backwoods boy. Why, I ain't even a Yank, yet. Carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:07 PM

jeffp- no politcial action does take place in the Capitol Building

I did watch the the address & pior to the start it was reported that Cindy had been removed. I remarked to my wife when Bush was expoliting the family of another dead solider that he has a 10' long nerve to be able to handle both situations singled handedly.
But why am I not suprised, he handles the nation in the same fashion.

A t-shirt is no cause for disruption & only makes a statment, I don't think it really even quilifies as a protest for either woman. I believe it is only a statment of free speech. Homeland Suckuriety
must've been tipped off by an annon. overseas phone call about Cindy & not about the "Other domestic Woman"
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:13 PM

Absolutely, Barry!

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: jeffp
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:14 PM

It's all in how you define it isn't it? I consider virtually everything that takes place in the Capitol building to be political. Especially the State of the Union Message.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:22 PM

action = movement, every thing stayed the same. no progress was made & no action was taken. Except maybe by 2 women.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:30 PM

'But Capitol Police will ask the U.S. attorney's office to drop the charges, NBC News' Mike Viqueira reported Wednesday.

"We screwed up," a top Capitol Police official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

He said Sheehan didn't violate any rules or laws.'

The above is from the linked MSN article.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:34 PM

" "We screwed up," a top Capitol Police official said, speaking on condition of anonymity"

EXACTLY!

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:41 PM

And they keep screwing up.....over and over and over.....scary stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:52 PM

Right back to "it all depends on whose Ox is getting gored."

There has been a rule forever regarding any type of display, advertising or sentiment generation with regard to visual display in the Capitol. Only a jerk would try to get by with that type of behavior. Wonder how much she was paid for this little escapade?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:53 PM

NPR covered the removal of both women equally in a discussion of the events around the speech in the news this morning.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 06:01 PM

One arrested, the other not arrested.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 06:16 PM

I gather this occasion is supposed to be an occasion for summing up "the state of the Union". It sounds as if it did precisely that.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 06:31 PM

Jist out of curiousity, how did a simple statement of fact and a question about future actions become a PROTEST ?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 06:34 PM

To quote someone in an earlier post, "It depends on whose bullshit is getting gored."

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: jeffp
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 06:45 PM

No law was broken; charges are being dropped, apologies have been made.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 07:17 PM

I wonder why Sheehan was arrested and not the other gal?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 07:22 PM

So presumably the police will put their hands up when charged with making a "false arrest"...

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Arne
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 07:42 PM

Here's Glenn Greenwald's informed take on this. And, AIUI, the police have apologised too.

But this ain't the only time this kind of thing has happened; they're just chippin', chippin' away at those prescient Ten Commandments of the United States Gummint (all the while extolling Roy Moore and his effort to substitute a different set)..... So, no, an apology isn't enough. We need to stop them from this protofascist crap and let them know that such censoring of political speech has no part in a country of freedom and democracy.

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 07:55 PM

"And it is still unclear, to put it generously, why Sheehan -- who apparently complied with the request to leave -- was arrested and detained for four hours, while Young, who argued bitterly with the Police and even called the officers "idiots," was simply asked to leave and not arrested. All of this is such a significant story primarily because there is a long line of events under the Bush Administration where people with dissenting opinions are thrown out of public events and divergent views are kept far away from the Commander-in-Chief. This incident grew out of that climate and is clearly a part of it."

From Arne's link.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 08:40 PM

At least she does something. The rest of America just sits on their butts and allows it all to happen. Politics in America is just another spectator sport.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Kaleea
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 10:43 PM

I just now got to check back on this thread. Thanks, all for the info. I can't say that I'm surprised. I have been reading & hearing stories from the press since before the 1st nonelection about non dubblepew followers being consistently ejected & arrested from events such as campaign trail speeches to the republican convention.
   Now this. Where is Freedom tonight? Not in America, except of course, for those who are dubblepewites.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 10:49 PM

Thanks for the link, Arne.

Dick, exactly!

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 10:54 PM

As much as I would like to say that Cindy Sheehan was denied her freedom of speech, and the Republican wife was merely a smokescreen, and that we have a doublestandard, the simple truth is - we do not know. NONE of us were there and it comes down to her side of the story versus theirs. Frankly, I tend to believe it was a stupid security move rather than a premeditated act to deny of her rights. Do you think that ANYONE, even King George, is so stupid that they would publicly remove this woman from the CAPITOL when the media and everyone in the federal government is in the same room?? The government may be run by idiots, but they aren't dumb!

It is obvious that some of us do not trust the "other" side and won't believe what they are telling us.   The bottom line is - all of us on here are nothing more than shithouse lawyers who are waiting for an excuse to rant and rave.   I do not see anyone complaining or rising up about the practices of the FCC or the corporations that are controlling the news we hear, see and read. If you are that worried about the denial of free speech, where is your outrage? Those are everyday issues, this was a one-time screwup.

The above guest was right - we just sit on our asses, whine a bit on places like mudcat, and do nothing.   This has become a spectator sport. How many of you have written letters, picketed, stopped buying products, or simply voted?

There are thousands of things we can do to protest, but sitting around waxing philosophic about a story when NONE of us have all the facts is really useless.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 11:34 PM

I guess who gets arrested and who doesn't depends on which side of the Isle they're sitting on.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 11:40 PM

I didn't read past Doug R's comment, so if it has been addressed then I apologize. Doug, could you provide a cite for the prohibition on wearing t shirts with a message for or against an issue? I have lobbied in the Congress, visited the rotunda, been throughout the halls and chambers, many times with t shirts that had a message. In your zeal to be an apologist for this megalomaniac and his minions, I believe you are confusing tradition with prohibition.

Can't you see it yet, Doug. Can't the uber patriotic right wing see the danger in prohibiting free speech, wiretaps ON AMERICAN CITIZENS without court approval, Patriot act spying on libraries .......... can't you see it. Doug, if they can do it to us "lefties" what's to stop a left wing President from spying on you based on a pretense.

I wish you would think a bit more and get past the friggin' blind loyalty thing.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 11:45 PM

What is clear, and what has not been focussed on as the key point, is the reaction of the security guard while the lady was taking off her jacket. He spotted her T-shirt -- which apparently just had a number on it -- and yelled "PROTESTER" and hustled her out in a half-nelson.

The essence of this story is in that moment -- a guard trained to respond to any sign of a protester like a bloodhound might to a runaway convict. Slam!!

Of course, the Bushite crowd will shrug this off, since the constitution does not say, literally, that the right to wear t-shirts with numbers on them shall not be infringed.

A

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 01:47 AM

First problem: that a law exists & hasn't been challenged about "what is a protester" & why is it a law within the Capital.

Second problem: Oh it has been challenged & ruled on. T-SHIRTS are not to be considered a protest.

Follow the above links to find chapter & verse.

Ron, Bush is smart enough to surround himself with people with more intelligence than he can claim for himself but sometimes they are not intelligent enough to surround themselves with enough so no trickle down effect can take place. These guards were supposed to be trained but you can't train a monkey to do an ape's job. Actually it's more likely to be that Bush is dumb enough to let the more intelligent party players to conservatives & neo-cons surround themselves around him.

The state of the Union should realize that setting up protester restricted free zone areas is an oxymoron. That means a person can only protest where they can't be seen or heard, that stifles all dissent & can not then be considered a protest at all. This is only one more embarrassment in a long line of government embarrassments. This government has only themselves to blame. With their policies that gave them the well earned title of "Shadow Government" to the PATRIOT ACT to the President surrounding himself with supporters & turning away any likely dissenters at political event to banning protesters from access to areas of political activity to the muzzling of the news media to the supporting of cover ups to the allowance of congressional criminals leaking confidential names to the secretly sending of suspects to foreign nations to been interrogated to the foot dragging refusals to help with a very long list of investigating committees that might cause the ruling party an embarrassing black eye. The Capitol Police have already apologized & the DA will probably drop it but it happened & it shouldn't have. Again the policy of this government is to commit the crime & practice damage control after the fact. Shoot from the hip & then call in the paramedics & the rest of the clean up crew. That's no way to run an under funded kindergarten never mind an under funded country.

Lastly: To say she was asking for it or she should have known better, tisk, tisk. Like the rape victim she should not be charged with being the cause of this crime. She should be able to dress as she pleases & speak as she wishes! Through this process she was raped brutally of her constitutional rights to free speech

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: kendall
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 09:21 AM

Not long ago a man was ordered to remove his tee shirt at the Maine Mall because it was "Inflamatory". He refused and was escourted outside.

The 1st amendment is sacred, but how far should it extend? I once saw a woman in a tee shirt that said "Smile if you like to fuck" Should that be banned in public? Where is the line?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 09:47 AM

I don't see why it should be banned in public, Kendall; people fuck all the time, and there's no reason not to be a little candid about it. Besides, she'd be surrounded by smilers!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:08 AM

This worked out just the way the Bushites scripted it, fer chrissake.

The "protesters"[sic] were neutralized, nothing "disrupted" Dumbya's characteristically inept reading off the tele-prompter screen, the police department followed the script & "apologized after" the fact -(i.e. after the harm was done) - and the majority of people- some people here, included- seem to think this was an honest "mistake" and accept the "apology". Jaysus!

Guess Mencken was spot on about the intelligence of the American people.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:17 AM

"How many of you have written letters, picketed, stopped buying products, or simply voted?"

Me for one.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:23 AM

Thanks Peace. I am glad you do the things you do, but I suspect that you get the point that I made.

I am sure there are people like you, and I am not expecting all of them to start listing the deeds they have done. I think it would be more telling if the people who have NOT done things like you have done to start owning up to it. I do not expect that would happen.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:29 AM

I agree Ron. It's frustrating. Letters I write are basically unanswered or answered in such a way that God Him/Herself only knows if the original was read; my votes may as well go into the sewer system without being counted; I boycott certain stores and certain products because of the political/ business associations they have, and I do register protests with store managers IN PERSON so they know they are losing a customer and why. I intend to get arrested the next time there is a protest against G7 or G8 or whatever the hell it is by then. BUT, it ain't changin' jackshit to tell ya the truth. Maybe, though, it helps me sleep at night.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:53 AM

Being able to sleep at night is a good thing!   :)    If more people followed your example things would change, and more people would have an opportunity to sleep well at night.

While the letters appear to be unanswered, they are usually registering. The more people that respond in kind, the more politicians will pay attention.   Politicians have become machines and they relate to polls, not people. Numbers and the safety of votes will cause them to take action.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:05 AM

As I understand it (per Safari--search engine on Apple), it was, as many have already said, a screwup by the Capitol police. As long as neither did "actions designed to call attention", both should have been allowed to wear their respective shirts and remain.

There is a double standard in that Cindy was arrested; the Bush supporter was just asked to leave. But in fact neither should have been bothered by the police--the police were acting under regulations which had already been revised and superseded--but the word for some reason didn't filter down to the actual officers.

Ain't bureaucracy wonderful?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:25 AM

"There is a double standard in that Cindy was arrested; the Bush supporter was just asked to leave."   That is true, but again we do not know all the facts. The police say that Cindy refused to leave and that Young voluntarily left the gallery, which is why there was only one arrest. It is Cindy's word against theirs.   While I would tend to believe her, I don't think any of us can say it is the case with certainty.

"the police were acting under regulations which had already been revised and superseded--but the word for some reason didn't filter down to the actual officers."
Where did you hear that? The reports that I have read was that the officers misinterprested a vauge law.

The bottom line is - whatever happened was wrong. We will never know the actuall thought process that lead to the initial decisions, and we will all make of it what we will.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:37 AM

Ron--

I told you where I got that information-- Apple's search engine. They are also now saying, that, according to a Capitol Hill police spokesman,   the officers made "a good faith effort" to enforce old unwritten rules about protest in the Capitol Hill area--and, again, that it was a screwup.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:43 AM

you told me how you found the information, you did not say where it was from.   AP,UPI,Reuters?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:44 AM

AP

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:50 AM

thanks. I am just curious because I did not see that story. The AP stories on Sheehan that I found do not mention anything about the rules being "revised and superseded--but the word for some reason didn't filter down to the actual officers".   That is a big difference from "the officers made "a good faith effort" to enforce old unwritten rules about protest in the Capitol Hill area"

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 01:52 PM

Ron Olesko, first you ask if any of us believe the shrub would let something like this happen with the media present, then you ask us what we are doing to protect the "news we hear, see and read."

I agree our news is filtered. I believe it is manipulated to a great degree by this administration. So, of course, he wouldn't give a shit if this happened when the media were there.

BTW, I vote, I write letters, I march, I call my congresspeople and I write to those who take the kind of actions I support whether they are representing my state or not. I believe they need to hear from all Americans who agree with what they may do. But, most of all, I focus on doing all I can to see the shrub and his cronies impeached.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 02:37 PM

Thanks Kat. Again, I did not post that note expecting everyone to start sharing what they are doing.   I only aimed that note at those that do nothing but simply complain.

I am not sure I would go so far to say that the news is "filtered", but there are restrictions in place.   I worked in a newsroom for 12 years (in a technical capacity) and I can say that I never saw a producer to supress a story.   I do think that they try to get confirmation before letting something loose.   We saw the tragedy of unconfirmed news in the West Virginia coal miners story last month.   What we are facing is restrictions in ownership, rules that suppress opportunities, and a fear about being fined that makes people second guess themselves.

I also think it is a stretch to imply that George Bush had Cindy Sheehan arrested, which you appear to imply in your second paragraph. From what we are reading, and even from Cindys account, it appears to be a over-eager security person who lacked judgement. We can use this situation to try to advance a cause, but if the facts are there we are only hurting ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 02:43 PM

I also think it is a stretch to imply that George Bush had Cindy Sheehan arrested

A STRETCH? He's done EXACTLY this- or his henchmen have- inumerable times in the past.

It would be MORE of a stretch, in light of past practice, to assume he didn't!

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:08 PM

Greg - I am not talking about the past, I am talking one incident with a specific set of facts. I don't like the man and his policies either, but I think it is better to place the blame exactly where it belongs.   

Bush strongly assumed (or led us to believe) that Iraq had WMD's. Base on past practices, he could have been write.   Making that assumption led us into a wrong war.   

I am very cautious about making assumptions these days, and I would not automatically assume that Bush was behind the arrest until I had the facts. In this case, we do not have all the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: tarheel
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:28 PM

arrested or not,the BITCH doesn't speak for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:38 PM

and why do we care what you think?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:44 PM

"arrested or not,the BITCH doesn't speak for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Huh. And you profess to be such a Christian; such a believer in the Holy Book. Take your meds, asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:49 PM

The pro-war bitch, or the anti-war bitch, you loud-mouthed bastard?

I don't maintain that Bush absolutely DID, Ron, just that it sure as hell wouldn't stretch to imagine that he had done.

And please, its been documented over and over again that Bush (or should I say the BuShite Junta- Dumbya is just a mouthpiece) absolutely knew that Iraq posed no such threat, & that he simply lied to advance a political agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:59 PM

Gee Tarheel , you shouldn't talk about a Republican Congressman's wife like that. And, as others have said, please go back on your meds (and see if you can get your fellow unstable Bushites to up theirs too.)

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:30 PM

"please, its been documented over and over again that Bush (or should I say the BuShite Junta- Dumbya is just a mouthpiece) absolutely knew that Iraq posed no such threat, & that he simply lied to advance a political agenda."

Greg, as I said above - I know that. That is my point. Many people BELIEVED Bush and his lies. Lies advanced a political agenda.   

Until we know exactly what happened with Cindy Sheehan, we can't make the same mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 05:25 PM

Bush would not be directly responsible but in the end he is the one that flaunts this type of policy. Respect the President's position & privacy & distance him from all negative publicly. It's the same way the prisoners at Abu Garud (SP?) were abused. The same way this government runs things. Do it now legal or illegal & we'll hash out the technical bullshit later. That is the policy, shoot from the hip, Awe & Awful. So if that's policy you can once again blame the little foot solider & instead of following up the chain of command & laying the blame at the top, the policy will continue. These embarrassments, violations & crimes will continue unless those in higher please are held accountable. They are the ones ultimately responsible for the actions of their subordinates no matter how far the distance between the 2 are.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 07:13 PM

Barry, you make a very good point and one that I had not thought about before. Thank you!

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: DougR
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 07:37 PM

Greg F. Bush has folks arrested? Who?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:29 PM

Go back to sleep, Douggie, no need for concern. Everything's fine.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:31 PM

Hey, Doug: The sky is falling.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:58 PM

This is very likely, as the Capitol Hill police spokesman says, a screwup. Seeing conspiracies everywhere doesn't help anybody's credibility.

Leave the conspiracy theories to idiots who see a traitor in anybody who criticizes the Bush regime.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:11 PM

Added to which, let's admit that being arrested has brought her a lot of publicity--probably comparable to what the shirt at the actual speech would have brought her.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:18 PM

Thank gawd it has, too. We need someone like her to attract the attention of all; to rally round and get the apathy banished from this country!

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:19 PM

Whoever started this here thred it's a flippin' lie! I was not arrested again. The last time was months ago. Way back. I ain't been arrested since then, so stop spreadin' false rumers about me.

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 08:22 AM

Ron makes a good point. Cindy Sheehan is after publicity, and she got it. I'm not sure I see this as a huge problem, either for her, or for the rest of us.

As for myself, I'm a little tired of people who protest without offering viable alternatives -- and then claim that they're making a difference just by making a noise. Cindy Sheehan is sad that so many have died; so am I, and so are most people. She thinks Bush has followed a course of action that is bad for the country, and bad for the world; so do I, and so do a lot of people. I am sorry for her loss, but she doesn't seem to have much of a clue about what should be done to make things better. In the end, complaining is just complaining; everyone has a right to do it, but it doesn't really mean much unless you have a better plan. What's hers?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 08:56 AM

We need to start with one simple fact which makes 95% of these posts meaningless.

The security force at the capital is under the jurisdiction of Congress. Not the executive office.

Therefore, all the posts blaming Bush are completely irrelavant because the security force does not report to him.   They report to Congress.   I did not see one post blaming Denny Hastert, or Bill Frist for Cindy's arrest.   All I read was the typical blind hatred for Bush.   No wonder no one in america (outside this forum) takes you seriously.

My own personal speculation is that the two democrats invited Cindy so she could make a spectacle of herself and embarrass the president during the adress.   Cindy denies that she would have done that, but judging by her former actions I won't trust her farther than I (or anyone else) could throw Michael Moore.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 10:20 AM

Larry, wake up.

While I usually refer to 'Bush and the BuShite Junta', for many "Bush" is a convenient shorthand encompassing the whole rotten, corrupt lying gang comprising the entire Bush Administration- including the BuShite majority in Congress.

I don't personally hate Bush, and I don't think most folks do, either- he's only an inept nebbish of a figurehead reading the garbage from a teleprompter, written by others, that he doesn't understand and can't pronounce. A sad case, really, WAY out of his depth. Its President Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove & the real architects of the administration's policies & actions & the tame Congress-Critters who carry them out that are worthy of hate.

And Whistle, I think the better plan is, and has been, stated pretty clearly by Ms,Sheehan & plenty of others: GET THE FU$K OUT OF IRAQ ! ¿Comprendes?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 10:25 AM

The 2006 election will show y'all where the bear went in the woods. Unless the Neocons arrange an incident that requires restriction of travel and subsequently no election.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 10:50 AM

Good start, Greg; what then? Iraq descends into civil war; other nations get brought in (power abhors a vaccuum, and Iraq's neighbors will undoubtedly feel like they have a stake in the outcome); access to the world's energy resources is so badly curtailed (like it or not, the entire industrialized world still runs on oil) that there are catastrophic global economic consequences -- until some other major power, or combination of powers, decides to exercise its own particular brand of control over the situation.

Sounds to me like your plan might create a few problems of its own. But that's okay, because I'm sure you and Cindy will be there to straighten things out for us. Maybe you can even print up a few new t-shirts; that's sure to help.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 02:40 PM

How far can you throw Michael Moore, Larry?

Whistle Stop, I believe you are right that Iraq would descend into a civil war...a 3-way civil war. Iran would probably intervene and assist the Shiites against the Kurds and the Sunnis. Turkey might get involved too...maybe. It would be a hell of a mess. If the great powers did not intervene, Iran would probably take over most of what is now Iraq in the process.

Matter of fact, I think those things are going to happen somewhere down the line anyway...unless the USA attacks Iran first, which will be an even bigger hell of a mess.

I frankly do not see any good resolution to this situation now. I believe the USA made a great error in invading Iraq, but what the next best step is once they are there, I don't know. Nothing obvious suggests itself to me. I think we are living on the edge of a disaster...and it has basically been driven by the industrial world's unquenchable thirst for oil.

By the way, I also think that Kerry would have continued a foreign policy quite similar to that of Bush's present administration. Oil calls the shots.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 06:54 PM

Got some bad news fer ya there, Whistle: Iraq is already in the midst of a civil war (kinda like Viet Nam was) and why? Because the U.S. invaded.

Why don't you ask the BuShite geniuses that lied us into this mess what their marvellous "plan" is to get us out again & stop berating me about it?

As they say in Montréal: Pas ma job.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Troll
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 09:08 PM

Yep. We shoulda stayed home and let Saddam alone to continue his pillage of Iraq and the murder and rape of its citizens.

But we didn't. So instead of damning Bush and strutting around preaching to the choir, how about some concrete suggestions on how the solve the problem. Of course, it is so much easier to just complain.

BTW, Iraq was in a civil war before the US invaded. Why do you think Saddam gassed the Kurds? They were fighting Iraqi government control and trying to break away to form their own country.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 09:10 PM

Why did the US desert their allies in Iraq after the Gulf War?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 05:27 PM

I remember ms. sheehan saying back in September that she wanted the troops out of Iraq and New Orleans. Does not say much for her lucidity.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 05:29 PM

"I remember ms. sheehan saying back in September that she wanted the troops out of Iraq and New Orleans. Does not say much for her lucidity."

Did the US ever GET troops into New Orleans?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 06:05 PM

I remember Dumbya (& the BuShite Chorus) some years back saying "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq.

Doesn't say much for HIS lucidity.

In addition, Ms. Sheehan hasn't killed anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,G
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 08:23 AM

Yes Peace , they did get troops into NO. Things were just slowed down by the Governor.

ms. sheehan has and is not not doing anything.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 08:46 AM

I think the point that Barry made is an important one but I'd go one step further and throw in the term that we're not hearing too much about and that is "office-speak" where a culture, or mentality is instilled into the foot souldiers and they almost without thought know what to do and what to say to please the boss...

This is what the Washington Post and new York Times have both confessed to getting caught up in during the mad-dask to Iraq and it's what alot of the Bushites here run on as they "react" to things that don't go along with the office speak...

BTW, I hate to beat a dead horse, but this is exactly what occured in Germany in the 30's...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 10:10 AM

I not sure that "Barrys' post is that meaningful. Most of you can dislike and denigrate GWB but everyday there are reminders of why some of the things going on are necessary.

Just finished reading about a 34 year old NYPD Detective who was on his way home when the first airliner struck the WTC. He went to the site, barely escaped being buried by the collapse. He ended up spending a total of 470 hours sifting thru the rubble. He contracted a lung disease within weeks, had to stop working and as a result of his deadly disease, his wife died from stress 2 years later.

He died a few days ago making his 4 year old daughter, who was born just weeks after the attacks, another orphan to add to the list of hundreds of children without parents.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 02:06 PM

I said above, "But, I have faith." Hmmm... it's fading to "hope" after reading all this. Sunset time I guess.

Hehehe. When I said, "Carry on.", I had no idea...............

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 12:37 PM

Little Hawk, I agree with you on most of this. I actually supported the invasion, but I am appalled by how poorly it was handled -- both in terms of forming a true coalition before going in, and in terms of preparing for the challenges of resurrecting a viable Iraq after the initial assault phase was over. I am baffled that the administration seems to have given so little thought to what we would do with Iraq once we were there; since we all knew the American military could beat the Iraqi military, the obvious question was "What then?". I still feel that Iraq was a problem that required a resolution, and that the resolution needed to have a substantial military component. But I am discouraged by the situation we have now created, due to poor planning and ideological arrogance.

Going back to the topic of this thread, though, it seems to me that those of us who are unhappy with the current state of affairs should be able to find a better spokesperson than Cindy Sheehan. It's going to be hard to rally our fellow citizens to our cause if she's the best leader we've got.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: DougR
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 09:26 PM

Gee whiz, Whistle Stop, where you when the Bush Administration needed you to advise them on how to conduct a war? Perhaps you should let them know, should the need arise, that you would be available to advise on how to handle the prolem with Iran and N. Korea.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 09:45 PM

Go back to sleep, Douggie. Everything's fine.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 03:13 AM

Just finished reading about a 34 year old NYPD Detective who was on his way home when the first airliner struck the WTC. He went to the site, barely escaped being buried by the collapse. He ended up spending a total of 470 hours sifting thru the rubble. He contracted a lung disease within weeks, had to stop working and as a result of his deadly disease, his wife died from stress 2 years later.

He died a few days ago making his 4 year old daughter, who was born just weeks after the attacks, another orphan to add to the list of hundreds of children without parents.

What in the world does this have to do with Iraq?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 03:54 AM

Whistle Stop - Thats exactly why me and many others opposed the unilateral action of the U.S. - poor planning and ideological arrogance.

Everybody knew that Saddam was a bad ass but how to change the situation, with the least amount of pain and misery, requires planning and co-operation.

Bush is arrogant and that is his hubris.

Sheehan isn't arrogant. She's an angry, grieving mother who's fed-up. She actually represents alot of women out there. I don't see her as a leader so much as a focus for change. I applaud anyone who cares so much and gives so much.

I think our best hope is the youth. Its their turn to stand up to tyranny and I think we will see more and more of it. They are the ones inheriting the debt, the broken social, safety net, the prisons and the scorn of nations. They will have to fight to turn this around.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 07:24 AM

Doug--

Bush didn't--and doesn't-- need Whistle Stop or anybody else--to advise him. After all, he has you.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 08:03 AM

Doug, I'm not claiming that I had all the answers then, and I don't claim to have all the answers now. Eventually, it comes down to trust; since I do not have the expertise, nor the authority, nor the access to intelligence and secret plans that our President and senior government officials have, I accept the fact that I have to leave this in others' hands, based on whatever level of trust they have earned by their past actions. I basically trusted Bush and his administration to handle this right, based in large part on their management of the war in Afghanistan, and on the statements of others within and outside of the administration that seemed to bolster their claims. I did not know what their specific plans were for the occupation; I wasn't supposed to know, and I accepted that. But I expected, and trusted, that plans were in place, and that they were well thought out. I believe that subsequent events have shown that there were profound flaws in the planning, and that these were exacerbated by the arrogance of our leaders, who were very dismissive of any input that didn't fit with their preconceived notions of how the world worked.

When our leaders screw up, we should call them on it. It's all part of this democracy business.

Dianavan, I think you could make the case that you knew in advance of the invasion that Bush and others in his administration were arrogant; I'll admit that there were signs of that, and maybe you read them more accurately than I did. However, I question whether, three years ago, you knew (or could have known) of the inadequacies in the planning. That stuff was secret, and unless you were in the inner circle, you didn't know that any better than I did. Hindsight is 20/20, but you're not talking about hindsight; you're talking about the position you took at the time. What exactly did you know about the planning that I didn't?

As for Cindy Sheehan, I don't know if she is arrogant or not. But she doesn't seem to have any good ideas for how to resolve the mess we're in now -- and since that is the question that needs to be answered, I don't see the sense in focusing so much attention on her.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 08:21 AM

CarolC, was it really worth the try? The purpose of the story on the NYPD Detective was to remind some that 9/11 did happen and was the reason we went to the two countries, whether you want to believe it or not.
We are still seeing/feeling the tragedy of that day.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 08:30 AM

....besides, this thread is about Sheehan being arrested.