BS: sheehan arrested?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 08:30 AM

....besides, this thread is about Sheehan being arrested.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 08:21 AM

CarolC, was it really worth the try? The purpose of the story on the NYPD Detective was to remind some that 9/11 did happen and was the reason we went to the two countries, whether you want to believe it or not.
We are still seeing/feeling the tragedy of that day.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 08:03 AM

Doug, I'm not claiming that I had all the answers then, and I don't claim to have all the answers now. Eventually, it comes down to trust; since I do not have the expertise, nor the authority, nor the access to intelligence and secret plans that our President and senior government officials have, I accept the fact that I have to leave this in others' hands, based on whatever level of trust they have earned by their past actions. I basically trusted Bush and his administration to handle this right, based in large part on their management of the war in Afghanistan, and on the statements of others within and outside of the administration that seemed to bolster their claims. I did not know what their specific plans were for the occupation; I wasn't supposed to know, and I accepted that. But I expected, and trusted, that plans were in place, and that they were well thought out. I believe that subsequent events have shown that there were profound flaws in the planning, and that these were exacerbated by the arrogance of our leaders, who were very dismissive of any input that didn't fit with their preconceived notions of how the world worked.

When our leaders screw up, we should call them on it. It's all part of this democracy business.

Dianavan, I think you could make the case that you knew in advance of the invasion that Bush and others in his administration were arrogant; I'll admit that there were signs of that, and maybe you read them more accurately than I did. However, I question whether, three years ago, you knew (or could have known) of the inadequacies in the planning. That stuff was secret, and unless you were in the inner circle, you didn't know that any better than I did. Hindsight is 20/20, but you're not talking about hindsight; you're talking about the position you took at the time. What exactly did you know about the planning that I didn't?

As for Cindy Sheehan, I don't know if she is arrogant or not. But she doesn't seem to have any good ideas for how to resolve the mess we're in now -- and since that is the question that needs to be answered, I don't see the sense in focusing so much attention on her.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 07:24 AM

Doug--

Bush didn't--and doesn't-- need Whistle Stop or anybody else--to advise him. After all, he has you.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 03:54 AM

Whistle Stop - Thats exactly why me and many others opposed the unilateral action of the U.S. - poor planning and ideological arrogance.

Everybody knew that Saddam was a bad ass but how to change the situation, with the least amount of pain and misery, requires planning and co-operation.

Bush is arrogant and that is his hubris.

Sheehan isn't arrogant. She's an angry, grieving mother who's fed-up. She actually represents alot of women out there. I don't see her as a leader so much as a focus for change. I applaud anyone who cares so much and gives so much.

I think our best hope is the youth. Its their turn to stand up to tyranny and I think we will see more and more of it. They are the ones inheriting the debt, the broken social, safety net, the prisons and the scorn of nations. They will have to fight to turn this around.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 03:13 AM

Just finished reading about a 34 year old NYPD Detective who was on his way home when the first airliner struck the WTC. He went to the site, barely escaped being buried by the collapse. He ended up spending a total of 470 hours sifting thru the rubble. He contracted a lung disease within weeks, had to stop working and as a result of his deadly disease, his wife died from stress 2 years later.

He died a few days ago making his 4 year old daughter, who was born just weeks after the attacks, another orphan to add to the list of hundreds of children without parents.

What in the world does this have to do with Iraq?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 09:45 PM

Go back to sleep, Douggie. Everything's fine.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: DougR
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 09:26 PM

Gee whiz, Whistle Stop, where you when the Bush Administration needed you to advise them on how to conduct a war? Perhaps you should let them know, should the need arise, that you would be available to advise on how to handle the prolem with Iran and N. Korea.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 12:37 PM

Little Hawk, I agree with you on most of this. I actually supported the invasion, but I am appalled by how poorly it was handled -- both in terms of forming a true coalition before going in, and in terms of preparing for the challenges of resurrecting a viable Iraq after the initial assault phase was over. I am baffled that the administration seems to have given so little thought to what we would do with Iraq once we were there; since we all knew the American military could beat the Iraqi military, the obvious question was "What then?". I still feel that Iraq was a problem that required a resolution, and that the resolution needed to have a substantial military component. But I am discouraged by the situation we have now created, due to poor planning and ideological arrogance.

Going back to the topic of this thread, though, it seems to me that those of us who are unhappy with the current state of affairs should be able to find a better spokesperson than Cindy Sheehan. It's going to be hard to rally our fellow citizens to our cause if she's the best leader we've got.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 02:06 PM

I said above, "But, I have faith." Hmmm... it's fading to "hope" after reading all this. Sunset time I guess.

Hehehe. When I said, "Carry on.", I had no idea...............

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 10:10 AM

I not sure that "Barrys' post is that meaningful. Most of you can dislike and denigrate GWB but everyday there are reminders of why some of the things going on are necessary.

Just finished reading about a 34 year old NYPD Detective who was on his way home when the first airliner struck the WTC. He went to the site, barely escaped being buried by the collapse. He ended up spending a total of 470 hours sifting thru the rubble. He contracted a lung disease within weeks, had to stop working and as a result of his deadly disease, his wife died from stress 2 years later.

He died a few days ago making his 4 year old daughter, who was born just weeks after the attacks, another orphan to add to the list of hundreds of children without parents.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 08:46 AM

I think the point that Barry made is an important one but I'd go one step further and throw in the term that we're not hearing too much about and that is "office-speak" where a culture, or mentality is instilled into the foot souldiers and they almost without thought know what to do and what to say to please the boss...

This is what the Washington Post and new York Times have both confessed to getting caught up in during the mad-dask to Iraq and it's what alot of the Bushites here run on as they "react" to things that don't go along with the office speak...

BTW, I hate to beat a dead horse, but this is exactly what occured in Germany in the 30's...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,G
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 08:23 AM

Yes Peace , they did get troops into NO. Things were just slowed down by the Governor.

ms. sheehan has and is not not doing anything.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 06:05 PM

I remember Dumbya (& the BuShite Chorus) some years back saying "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq.

Doesn't say much for HIS lucidity.

In addition, Ms. Sheehan hasn't killed anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 05:29 PM

"I remember ms. sheehan saying back in September that she wanted the troops out of Iraq and New Orleans. Does not say much for her lucidity."

Did the US ever GET troops into New Orleans?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 05:27 PM

I remember ms. sheehan saying back in September that she wanted the troops out of Iraq and New Orleans. Does not say much for her lucidity.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 09:10 PM

Why did the US desert their allies in Iraq after the Gulf War?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Troll
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 09:08 PM

Yep. We shoulda stayed home and let Saddam alone to continue his pillage of Iraq and the murder and rape of its citizens.

But we didn't. So instead of damning Bush and strutting around preaching to the choir, how about some concrete suggestions on how the solve the problem. Of course, it is so much easier to just complain.

BTW, Iraq was in a civil war before the US invaded. Why do you think Saddam gassed the Kurds? They were fighting Iraqi government control and trying to break away to form their own country.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 06:54 PM

Got some bad news fer ya there, Whistle: Iraq is already in the midst of a civil war (kinda like Viet Nam was) and why? Because the U.S. invaded.

Why don't you ask the BuShite geniuses that lied us into this mess what their marvellous "plan" is to get us out again & stop berating me about it?

As they say in Montréal: Pas ma job.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 02:40 PM

How far can you throw Michael Moore, Larry?

Whistle Stop, I believe you are right that Iraq would descend into a civil war...a 3-way civil war. Iran would probably intervene and assist the Shiites against the Kurds and the Sunnis. Turkey might get involved too...maybe. It would be a hell of a mess. If the great powers did not intervene, Iran would probably take over most of what is now Iraq in the process.

Matter of fact, I think those things are going to happen somewhere down the line anyway...unless the USA attacks Iran first, which will be an even bigger hell of a mess.

I frankly do not see any good resolution to this situation now. I believe the USA made a great error in invading Iraq, but what the next best step is once they are there, I don't know. Nothing obvious suggests itself to me. I think we are living on the edge of a disaster...and it has basically been driven by the industrial world's unquenchable thirst for oil.

By the way, I also think that Kerry would have continued a foreign policy quite similar to that of Bush's present administration. Oil calls the shots.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 10:50 AM

Good start, Greg; what then? Iraq descends into civil war; other nations get brought in (power abhors a vaccuum, and Iraq's neighbors will undoubtedly feel like they have a stake in the outcome); access to the world's energy resources is so badly curtailed (like it or not, the entire industrialized world still runs on oil) that there are catastrophic global economic consequences -- until some other major power, or combination of powers, decides to exercise its own particular brand of control over the situation.

Sounds to me like your plan might create a few problems of its own. But that's okay, because I'm sure you and Cindy will be there to straighten things out for us. Maybe you can even print up a few new t-shirts; that's sure to help.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 10:25 AM

The 2006 election will show y'all where the bear went in the woods. Unless the Neocons arrange an incident that requires restriction of travel and subsequently no election.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 10:20 AM

Larry, wake up.

While I usually refer to 'Bush and the BuShite Junta', for many "Bush" is a convenient shorthand encompassing the whole rotten, corrupt lying gang comprising the entire Bush Administration- including the BuShite majority in Congress.

I don't personally hate Bush, and I don't think most folks do, either- he's only an inept nebbish of a figurehead reading the garbage from a teleprompter, written by others, that he doesn't understand and can't pronounce. A sad case, really, WAY out of his depth. Its President Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove & the real architects of the administration's policies & actions & the tame Congress-Critters who carry them out that are worthy of hate.

And Whistle, I think the better plan is, and has been, stated pretty clearly by Ms,Sheehan & plenty of others: GET THE FU$K OUT OF IRAQ ! ¿Comprendes?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 08:56 AM

We need to start with one simple fact which makes 95% of these posts meaningless.

The security force at the capital is under the jurisdiction of Congress. Not the executive office.

Therefore, all the posts blaming Bush are completely irrelavant because the security force does not report to him.   They report to Congress.   I did not see one post blaming Denny Hastert, or Bill Frist for Cindy's arrest.   All I read was the typical blind hatred for Bush.   No wonder no one in america (outside this forum) takes you seriously.

My own personal speculation is that the two democrats invited Cindy so she could make a spectacle of herself and embarrass the president during the adress.   Cindy denies that she would have done that, but judging by her former actions I won't trust her farther than I (or anyone else) could throw Michael Moore.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 08:22 AM

Ron makes a good point. Cindy Sheehan is after publicity, and she got it. I'm not sure I see this as a huge problem, either for her, or for the rest of us.

As for myself, I'm a little tired of people who protest without offering viable alternatives -- and then claim that they're making a difference just by making a noise. Cindy Sheehan is sad that so many have died; so am I, and so are most people. She thinks Bush has followed a course of action that is bad for the country, and bad for the world; so do I, and so do a lot of people. I am sorry for her loss, but she doesn't seem to have much of a clue about what should be done to make things better. In the end, complaining is just complaining; everyone has a right to do it, but it doesn't really mean much unless you have a better plan. What's hers?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:19 PM

Whoever started this here thred it's a flippin' lie! I was not arrested again. The last time was months ago. Way back. I ain't been arrested since then, so stop spreadin' false rumers about me.

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:18 PM

Thank gawd it has, too. We need someone like her to attract the attention of all; to rally round and get the apathy banished from this country!

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:11 PM

Added to which, let's admit that being arrested has brought her a lot of publicity--probably comparable to what the shirt at the actual speech would have brought her.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:58 PM

This is very likely, as the Capitol Hill police spokesman says, a screwup. Seeing conspiracies everywhere doesn't help anybody's credibility.

Leave the conspiracy theories to idiots who see a traitor in anybody who criticizes the Bush regime.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:31 PM

Hey, Doug: The sky is falling.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:29 PM

Go back to sleep, Douggie, no need for concern. Everything's fine.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: DougR
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 07:37 PM

Greg F. Bush has folks arrested? Who?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 07:13 PM

Barry, you make a very good point and one that I had not thought about before. Thank you!

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 05:25 PM

Bush would not be directly responsible but in the end he is the one that flaunts this type of policy. Respect the President's position & privacy & distance him from all negative publicly. It's the same way the prisoners at Abu Garud (SP?) were abused. The same way this government runs things. Do it now legal or illegal & we'll hash out the technical bullshit later. That is the policy, shoot from the hip, Awe & Awful. So if that's policy you can once again blame the little foot solider & instead of following up the chain of command & laying the blame at the top, the policy will continue. These embarrassments, violations & crimes will continue unless those in higher please are held accountable. They are the ones ultimately responsible for the actions of their subordinates no matter how far the distance between the 2 are.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:30 PM

"please, its been documented over and over again that Bush (or should I say the BuShite Junta- Dumbya is just a mouthpiece) absolutely knew that Iraq posed no such threat, & that he simply lied to advance a political agenda."

Greg, as I said above - I know that. That is my point. Many people BELIEVED Bush and his lies. Lies advanced a political agenda.   

Until we know exactly what happened with Cindy Sheehan, we can't make the same mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:59 PM

Gee Tarheel , you shouldn't talk about a Republican Congressman's wife like that. And, as others have said, please go back on your meds (and see if you can get your fellow unstable Bushites to up theirs too.)

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:49 PM

The pro-war bitch, or the anti-war bitch, you loud-mouthed bastard?

I don't maintain that Bush absolutely DID, Ron, just that it sure as hell wouldn't stretch to imagine that he had done.

And please, its been documented over and over again that Bush (or should I say the BuShite Junta- Dumbya is just a mouthpiece) absolutely knew that Iraq posed no such threat, & that he simply lied to advance a political agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:44 PM

"arrested or not,the BITCH doesn't speak for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Huh. And you profess to be such a Christian; such a believer in the Holy Book. Take your meds, asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:38 PM

and why do we care what you think?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: tarheel
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:28 PM

arrested or not,the BITCH doesn't speak for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:08 PM

Greg - I am not talking about the past, I am talking one incident with a specific set of facts. I don't like the man and his policies either, but I think it is better to place the blame exactly where it belongs.   

Bush strongly assumed (or led us to believe) that Iraq had WMD's. Base on past practices, he could have been write.   Making that assumption led us into a wrong war.   

I am very cautious about making assumptions these days, and I would not automatically assume that Bush was behind the arrest until I had the facts. In this case, we do not have all the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 02:43 PM

I also think it is a stretch to imply that George Bush had Cindy Sheehan arrested

A STRETCH? He's done EXACTLY this- or his henchmen have- inumerable times in the past.

It would be MORE of a stretch, in light of past practice, to assume he didn't!

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 02:37 PM

Thanks Kat. Again, I did not post that note expecting everyone to start sharing what they are doing.   I only aimed that note at those that do nothing but simply complain.

I am not sure I would go so far to say that the news is "filtered", but there are restrictions in place.   I worked in a newsroom for 12 years (in a technical capacity) and I can say that I never saw a producer to supress a story.   I do think that they try to get confirmation before letting something loose.   We saw the tragedy of unconfirmed news in the West Virginia coal miners story last month.   What we are facing is restrictions in ownership, rules that suppress opportunities, and a fear about being fined that makes people second guess themselves.

I also think it is a stretch to imply that George Bush had Cindy Sheehan arrested, which you appear to imply in your second paragraph. From what we are reading, and even from Cindys account, it appears to be a over-eager security person who lacked judgement. We can use this situation to try to advance a cause, but if the facts are there we are only hurting ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 01:52 PM

Ron Olesko, first you ask if any of us believe the shrub would let something like this happen with the media present, then you ask us what we are doing to protect the "news we hear, see and read."

I agree our news is filtered. I believe it is manipulated to a great degree by this administration. So, of course, he wouldn't give a shit if this happened when the media were there.

BTW, I vote, I write letters, I march, I call my congresspeople and I write to those who take the kind of actions I support whether they are representing my state or not. I believe they need to hear from all Americans who agree with what they may do. But, most of all, I focus on doing all I can to see the shrub and his cronies impeached.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:50 AM

thanks. I am just curious because I did not see that story. The AP stories on Sheehan that I found do not mention anything about the rules being "revised and superseded--but the word for some reason didn't filter down to the actual officers".   That is a big difference from "the officers made "a good faith effort" to enforce old unwritten rules about protest in the Capitol Hill area"

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:44 AM

AP

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:43 AM

you told me how you found the information, you did not say where it was from.   AP,UPI,Reuters?

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:37 AM

Ron--

I told you where I got that information-- Apple's search engine. They are also now saying, that, according to a Capitol Hill police spokesman,   the officers made "a good faith effort" to enforce old unwritten rules about protest in the Capitol Hill area--and, again, that it was a screwup.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:25 AM

"There is a double standard in that Cindy was arrested; the Bush supporter was just asked to leave."   That is true, but again we do not know all the facts. The police say that Cindy refused to leave and that Young voluntarily left the gallery, which is why there was only one arrest. It is Cindy's word against theirs.   While I would tend to believe her, I don't think any of us can say it is the case with certainty.

"the police were acting under regulations which had already been revised and superseded--but the word for some reason didn't filter down to the actual officers."
Where did you hear that? The reports that I have read was that the officers misinterprested a vauge law.

The bottom line is - whatever happened was wrong. We will never know the actuall thought process that lead to the initial decisions, and we will all make of it what we will.

Subject: RE: BS: sheehan arrested?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:05 AM

As I understand it (per Safari--search engine on Apple), it was, as many have already said, a screwup by the Capitol police. As long as neither did "actions designed to call attention", both should have been allowed to wear their respective shirts and remain.

There is a double standard in that Cindy was arrested; the Bush supporter was just asked to leave. But in fact neither should have been bothered by the police--the police were acting under regulations which had already been revised and superseded--but the word for some reason didn't filter down to the actual officers.

Ain't bureaucracy wonderful?