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BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell
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Subject: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Pied Piper Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:27 AM Do you need Gods somewhat un-subtle Carrot and stick to behave well? PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:30 AM We must know a different God, PP. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Donuel Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:30 AM some do some don't but social psychopaths are immune to either path. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Janie Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:30 AM Hasn't worked for Pat Robertson. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: number 6 Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:34 AM I don't like carrots ... so it would never work for me. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: GUEST Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:41 AM more shit |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: bobad Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:43 AM I don't believe so, if we follow the precept to "love all living things", then we will behave well - no God , no carrot, no stick required. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Pied Piper Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:58 AM I love Carrots specialy when Juliened. PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: *daylia* Date: 15 Feb 06 - 12:21 PM Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell Bamboozled with Hubris By'n by all is Well pretty deeeeeeeeeeeeep around here ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: GUEST Date: 15 Feb 06 - 12:29 PM Actually, I think it's unfair to call Carrott un-subtle. I think Jasper can be very funny sometimes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Amos Date: 15 Feb 06 - 12:30 PM Jeeze, PP ... NO-one needs corny icons to choose right action! It's a native talent. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Wesley S Date: 15 Feb 06 - 01:02 PM "Do you need Gods somewhat un-subtle Carrot and stick to behave well? I'd like to respectfully disagree. The carrot and stick are provided by some - not all - of the worlds organized religions. Leave God out of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Feb 06 - 01:11 PM What Wesley said. I note that civil society and the whole legal structure it entails also provide a carrot and a stick, Pied. So does one's employer, if one is employed. So do our schools. So do our boyfriends and girlfriends, our parents, our partners, etc... So do political systems in their dealings with one another. Do we need all of these to behave well? ;-) Should we do away with them all? My impression is that everybody EXCEPT God provides a carrot and a stick, truth be told! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: GUEST Date: 15 Feb 06 - 01:15 PM I don't like carrots and I ain't too fond of God either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Wesley S Date: 15 Feb 06 - 01:22 PM Both are pretty good if they are served with enough garlic and butter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: jacqui.c Date: 15 Feb 06 - 01:39 PM Mmmmmmm, garlic butter..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Feb 06 - 01:56 PM You just haven't prepared those carrots the right way, Guest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: GUEST,Wesley S Date: 15 Feb 06 - 02:29 PM You havn't been cooking the stick WITH the carrots have you ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: GUEST Date: 15 Feb 06 - 02:47 PM THAT'S the problem . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: GUEST,Wesley S Date: 15 Feb 06 - 02:51 PM It's printed right there in the Book of Second Opinions, Chapter 11 - "Thou Shalt NOT cook the carrot and the stick together" - Dang it - now we have to stone you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Raedwulf Date: 15 Feb 06 - 02:54 PM "What Wesley said" Unfortunately, most of "the worlds organized religions" are monotheistic, have a one true god, & that god will judge you when you are dead. Hence the carrot & stick ("behave or else...") approach. Buddhism is a notable exception, since Buddha, as I understand it, is an example not a judge. So maybe the Buddhists are wrong about what happens after you croak, since who says "right/wrong" seems a bit nebulous... But the monotheists are extremely bleedin' sure about what happens after you croak! As Amos nearly said, organized religion, sadly, is not about faith, but about someone telling you that you doan know neerly as much as wot I does. Civil society, the whole legal system, the local imam, the parish priest, the ayatollah, the pope - all of them tell you the same thing. "I am right, listen to me." At least civil society & the legal system appear to mitigate against the vagaries of one man's capriciousness. To me, that's a very good reason to mistrust the basic monotheist thrust of "There is one true god". Oh yeah? How can you be sure he didn't just make an error of judgement, had an off day? Blind faith? Not good enough for me! We made him in our own image, after all. And we screw up as often as not - just look at human history! R P.S. Apologies if I've mistaken a silly thread for a serious one. P.P.S. If this was supposed to be a serious thread, it's a nice premise, but a lousy presentation! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Feb 06 - 03:18 PM That all depends whether you think God is separate or not. One cannot judge others unless believes one is separated from them. How can something which is infinite and omnipresent be separate from anything? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: GUEST Date: 15 Feb 06 - 03:22 PM carrots are NOT infinite and omnipresent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Feb 06 - 03:25 PM No, but if God was, by definition, a carrot, then they would be. ;-) At least...the God-Carrot Itself would. Would it then presume to judge the other carrots as unworthy of resting within the One Great Carrot archetype? NO! That would be judging and condemning parts of Itself. Thus...you have a carrot, but no stick. That's my theory. It's the stick that is the mythical part. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: *daylia* Date: 15 Feb 06 - 03:35 PM Yeah. And the stick's not half as good for your eyes either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Raedwulf Date: 15 Feb 06 - 03:49 PM LH has sort of got what I meant. Unfortunately, his insanity then took over & warped the answer. Mind you, it's only my judgement that he is mad. And I daresay he judges that I am mad (if he doesn't, then that's proof that *he* is). And if we're both mad, then... Ah! It's alright. If we're both mad, then Amos is obviously wrong. So that's settled, then. Amos is Wrong. Possibly Amos is Mad. Hang on. Amos is Mad. Possibly Amos is Wrong. Amos is Prossibly Wrong & Pobably Mad. But more likely he's Prossibly Mad & Pobably Wrong. (I'm not going to go into the possibilities of Wrad vs. Mong...) Look, he's Mad AND Wrong, & I'm Right. Listen to me! Listen to me!! Just don't listen to anyone that speaks of stirrots & cacks. Or cabbages & kings. They just can't be trusted you know. Especially when they've eaten all the oysters! R P.S. Did I already apologize if I mistook this for a serious thread? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Feb 06 - 04:08 PM Walk softly and carry a big carrot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Raedwulf Date: 15 Feb 06 - 04:32 PM You see? Proof!!! Not only does LH think he's Amos, he's managed to convince me that he doesn't know the difference. Hahaha! He's even managed to convince me to convince you that he doesn't know the difference. Hahahaha!! He's even managed to convince you to convince me to convince him that he's convinced that I'm convinced that Amos is convinced that LH is convincing... Hahahahaha!!!! You may be very convincing, LH, but you don't fool me! I know who's which & what's what!! Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ooops! Giveaway!! Too many exclamatiom marks. Which of us was it that's mad again? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Donuel Date: 15 Feb 06 - 04:38 PM Health, Wealth. Friendship and Happiness...that is why we are here. Those are reasons people go to the internet forums, churches, synagoges and mosques. Health might entail questions to fight or avoid disease or simply share recipes for good food. Wealth might be about insulating a house or how to sell what you just made. Friendship might be vicarious, virual or meeting a future spouse here. Happiness is beyond a definition but the biggest mistake people make about happiness is that it is a commodity that has a finite supply. Most wars and strife are about happiness being stolen as if it is a commodity. One then seeks justice and revenge to make someone else miserable or dead to make you happy about your loss. But the justice and revenge never delivers happiness. As long as one thinks it is gone it will be gone. Good news - sometimes justice deferred is happiness returned from the cornucopia from which it truely springs. Like the cells of your body who do something for the body and in turn is fed and cared for, there is no carrot and stick in charge of the transaction. The illusion of carrot and stick relationships is fine for a child. We possibly think to ourselves that it is not a childs fault for being stupid or inexperienced but it is also true for we adults. Its true for Bill Clinton as well as W. Its not your fault you are stupid about certain things. You can learn but it is difficult since our normal 5 senses with the whisper of a 6th does not illuminate the whole of our universe in which we live. Peace has spoken of the hubris of not knowing and making it more possible to learn with an open mind. So Christians, Jews, Muslims and Atheists it is not your fault you have sometimes been stupid and feel happiness has been irretrievably stolen. Its not your fault that being alone can seem like a curse or a relationship was only a mirage. REMIND yourself often anyone selling hatred over loss is selling poison. Happiness is not a commodity. IF you hear someone of authority or holiness call another person a boy scout or infidel because they are not ruthless enough to do the wrong thing - YOU WILL KNOW IMMEDIATELY who you could trust. Kindness is often a mask the deciever will wear but they are unmasked as soon as they tell you whom to hate. All the scriptures really say about right and wrong is that love and forgiveness is good for your own soul and that hating wrong doers is not a means to an end of wrong doing. Even evil unchecked will die with its host like a cancer. Your happiness is not dependent on the wrong doer. So trust your sixth sense and amke a futire of your own making before it happens. Its easy if you try. You don't even have to believe. Don Hakman |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Donuel Date: 15 Feb 06 - 04:54 PM edited version: Health, Wealth. Friendship and Happiness...that is why we are here. Those are reasons people go to the internet forums, churches, synagoges and mosques. Health might entail questions to fight or avoid disease or simply share recipes for good food. Wealth might be about insulating a house or how to sell what you just made. Friendship might be vicarious, virtual or meeting a future spouse here. Happiness is beyond a definition but the biggest mistake people make about happiness is that it is a commodity that has a finite supply. Most wars and strife are about happiness being stolen as if it is a commodity. One then seeks justice and revenge to make someone else miserable or dead to make you happy about your loss. But the justice and revenge never delivers happiness. As long as one thinks it is gone it will be gone. Good news - sometimes justice deferred is happiness returned from the cornucopia from which it truly springs. Like the cells of your body that do something for the body and in turn is fed and cared for, we in our own lives adt as if there is a carrot and stick in charge of all our transactions. The illusion of carrot and stick relationships is fine for a child. We possibly think to ourselves that it is not a child's fault for being stupid or inexperienced but it is also true for us adults. It's true for Bill Clinton as well as W. It's not your fault you are stupid about certain things. You can learn but it is difficult since our normal 5 senses with the whisper of a 6th do not illuminate the whole of our universe in which we live. Peace has spoken of the hubris of not knowing and making it more possible to learn with an open mind. So Christians, Jews, Muslims and Atheists it is not your fault you have sometimes been stupid and feel happiness has been irretrievably stolen. Its not your fault that being alone can seem like a curse or a relationship was only a mirage. REMIND yourself often anyone selling hatred over loss is selling poison. Happiness is not a commodity. IF you hear someone of authority or holiness call another person a boy scout or infidel because they are not ruthless enough to do the wrong thing - YOU WILL KNOW IMMEDIATELY who you could trust. Kindness is often a mask the deceiver will wear but they are unmasked as soon as they tell you whom to hate. All the scriptures really say about right and wrong is that love and forgiveness is good for your own soul and that hating wrong doers is not a means to an end of wrong doing. Even evil unchecked will die with its host like a cancer. Your happiness is not dependent on the wrong doer. So trust your sixth sense and make a future of your own making, before it happens. It's easy if you try. You don't even have to believe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: GUEST,Cluin Date: 15 Feb 06 - 06:14 PM LH also thinks he has a big carrot. ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Feb 06 - 07:14 PM That could be a whole new thread... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Stilly River Sage Date: 15 Feb 06 - 07:37 PM In my opinion this is a typical "spare the rod" Puritan (mis)interpretation of an idiomatic phrase that has nothing to do with the choice of a carrot or getting hit with a stick. It is a carrot on a stick. The carrot is a reward that is offered but not fulfilled. The carrot is dangled from a stick out of reach in front of the mule. It isn't a choice of luring the animal with the carrot or hitting it with the stick. Since the phrase has been used both ways so much there is no way to sort it out and erradicate one or the other, but I suspect as people moved away from rural living they lost the understanding of the imagery entailed in the "carrot on a stick" cliche. Here is some discussion of the topic, for those who care to pursue it: Here is a discussion list. And here is another, and I'll quote from it:
Authoritative dictionaries agree, the original expression refers to offering to reward a stubborn mule or donkey with a carrot or threatening to beat it with a stick and not to a carrot being dangled from a stick. The Usenet Newsgroup alt.usage.english has debated this expression several times. No one there presented definitive evidence, but dictionaries agree the proper expression is "the carrot or the stick". One person on the Web mentions an old "Little Rascals" short in which an animal was tempted to forward motion by a carrot dangling from a stick. I think the image is much older than that, going back to old magazine cartoons (certainly older than the animated cartoons referred to by correspondents on alt.usage.english); but I'll bet that the cartoon idea stemmed from loose association with the original phrase "the carrot or the stick" rather than the other way around. An odd variant is the claim broadcast on National Public Radio March 21, 1999 that one Zebediah Smith originated this technique of motivating stubborn animals. This is almost certainly an urban legend. Note that the people who argue for "carrot on a stick" never cite any documentable early use of the supposed "correct" expression. For the record, here's what the Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary has to say on the subject: "carrot, sb. Add: 1. a. fig. [With allusion to the proverbial method of tempting a donkey to move by dangling a carrot before it.] An enticement, a promised or expected reward; freq. contrasted with "stick" (=punishment) as the alternative." [Skipping references to uses as early as 1895 which refer only to the carrot so don't clear up the issue.] "1948 Economist 11 Dec. 957/2 The material shrinking of rewards and lightening of penalties, the whittling away of stick and carrot. [Too bad the Economist's writer switched the order in the second part of this example, but the distinction is clear.] "1954 J. A. C. Brown Social Psychol.of Industry i. 15 The tacit implication that . . .most men . . . are . . . solely motivated by fear or greed (a motive now described as 'the carrot or the stick') "1963 Listener 21 Feb. 321/2 Once Gomulka had thrown away the stick of collectivization, he was compelled to rely on the carrot of a price system favourable to the peasant." The debate has been confused from time to time by imagining one stick from which the carrot is dangled and another kept in reserve as a whip; but I imagine that the original image in the minds of those who developed this expression was a donkey or mule laden with cargo rather than being ridden, with its master alternately holding a carrot in front of the animal's nose (by hand, not on a stick) and threatening it with a switch. Two sticks are too many to make for a neat expression. For me, the clincher is that no one actually cites the form of the "original expression." In what imaginable context would it possibly be witty or memorable to say that someone or something had been motivated by a carrot on a stick? Why not an apple on a stick, or a bag of oats? Boring, right? Not something likely to pass into popular usage. This saying belongs to the same general family as "you can draw more flies with honey than with vinegar." It is never used except when such contrast is implied. This and other popular etymologies fit under the heading aptly called by the English "too clever by half." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Once Famous Date: 15 Feb 06 - 07:55 PM I look at it like does the Pied Piper need to be followed by rats to feel like a god. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: GUEST Date: 15 Feb 06 - 10:13 PM Bribed with Heaven--virgins, huh? Blackmailed with Hell--an infinity of harp players only one of whom is in tune. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Amos Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:58 PM Little Hawk's sterling exegesis deserves a counterpoint, which he has most egregiously omitted in his haste for brilliance. Viz., although he provides a brief but adequate dissertation on the ramifications of the inspiratioanl perception of the Carrot God, and its self-constraints by reason of deivine identification with other carrots, he completely fails to examine the path not taken -- that of the Greater God, Stick. The God Stick seems to many to be a passive God, one who lies along the paths of men providing merely occasional coloration, or a camouflage model for certain bugs. But that is just His way when he is benevolently inclined. Do not doubt that when the Stick Sin quotient of this poor species rises to too high a level, we shall all feel the wrath of the Geat Stick. Just ask those who suffered through Katrina what the sticks of Louisiana did to windows, doors, eyeballs and stray animals throughout New Orleans. There are many ramifications to this new inspirational doctrine. One teleological question is the end state of the GGS in his own self-created universe. Some argue it is to be incorporated into a higher and more magnificent construct, following the implication of the Testament lesson, "In my father's house are many sticks". Others feel that the True Path leads to Divine Compostation, the reunion of all sticks with more elementary particles such as leaf mulch. Of course it could be argued that leaves themselves are merely Divine Stick Principle in a subtle form, and the same argument has been extended to analyses of the Ultimate Nature of bones, rocks, mountain ridges, thruways and other manifestations of Stick Will. The question of the relationship between houses of worship dedicated to the pursuit of Divine Stickness and those houses of worship dedicated tothe contemplation of The Golden Globes (or as some have called it the Temple of the Divine Curve)has been likened by some scholars to the dialogue between Republicans and Democrats. (The above abstract is a condensation of a much larger paper available only to subscribers. Send $37.00 or 42 Eur. and specify the title "Man from Stick in a World of Mud". Tax deductible.) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:40 PM What the f**k are you ON, Amos? LOL! I pity your wife if she has to listen to this kind of stuff all the time... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Cluin Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:04 PM Jeez! all the mental activity around here could power a small ant farm for a day. ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:09 PM Ha! Good one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Pied Piper Date: 18 Feb 06 - 07:21 AM I think we're on to something here. If you chop a Carrot in half across its diameter you get a circle. The circle contains all the elements of Gods name. The circle itself forms an O, half the circle forms a D and 3/4 of the circle forms a G. Add to that the use of the circle as symbol of infinity, could anybody doubt. But there will be doubters and I think we will need to come up with an explanation for what I call the "Parsnip problem" namely many types of root vegetables can have circular cross-sections. PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Amos Date: 18 Feb 06 - 11:37 AM LH: Pot calling the kettle black, here. My wife needs no pity; but I note all your candidates have fled. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Little Hawk Date: 18 Feb 06 - 12:32 PM It was a joke, Amos. But you know that, don't you? In the meantime I seem to have lost the thread of what this was about. What candidates??? I really don't get what you mean by "candidates" in this context. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Mudlark Date: 19 Feb 06 - 03:35 AM Is that a carrot in your pocket, God, or are you just glad to see me? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Amos Date: 19 Feb 06 - 08:27 AM Well, mine was a joke as well, amigo. Candidates in the context of spouses, eh? ROFL, Mudlark!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bribed with Heaven Blackmailed with Hell From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Feb 06 - 05:09 PM Oh, I see. ;-) |
