BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 03:14 PM

We have not really worked out the kinks in our online relationship yet, Jeri. I think "a room" together might be a premature move at this time...

(nice job on the 500 there)

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 03:15 PM

You couldn't take it LH.... I promise you

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 03:30 PM

Well, I can grasp plenty of things using only one finger*. It's not as strong as using my whole hand, but it's a grip none the less.

Good point! Hmmm   let's see    how about 'if we restrict ourselves to using only one finger, we cannot fully grasp a *blessed* thing'.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 03:33 PM

Or wait .... any *blessed* thing too large for that one particular finger to grip.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 04:02 PM

And a weak tenuous grip is better than no grip at all. I'll give you that!

Uh oh    there's a song in here somewhere    I know it    A Jingle For A Single-Fingered Quest maybe An Ode to the Lonely Digit hmmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 04:04 PM

Now you're just posting spam

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 04:55 PM

Spam fingers

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:01 PM

Eeewwwwwwwwwww    :-p

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 12:26 AM

That reminds me of the old joke about the legless parrot who used to hold onto the perch with his one little "finger"...

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 03:42 AM

Having finally admitted that science has a grasp on reality, even if it was a grudging admission that claimed it was one- fingered, it is up to you to show us what precisely it is that you think the other fingers are grasping. I propose that it's not even fresh air, it's simply without substance.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 04:14 AM

it is up to you to show us

Says who, Paul? You??

Do your own investigating, thanks. I do more than enough for one person.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 04:21 AM

PS ANd I propose that if Jung or Freud or Einstien or Hawkings etc etc had sat around demanding that someone else to show them what to think (empirically, of couse), they'd have figured out as much about life as the rest of us have.

Diddley.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 05:12 AM

PPS It's been said over and over again on this thread that this subject cannot be "proven" scientifically. YEt people still demand that I "prove" it to them!

Well, if someone demanded I tell them what I now about music theory as rudely and arrogantly as you folk, I wouldn't be bothered to give them the time of day.

And even if their initial attitude toward music theory and toward myself did seemed to merit some sort of response, if during the course that discussion they turned out to be as malicious, thick-skulled and vapour-headed as some of you folk, I'd simply show them the door.

It's been shown over and over again on this thread that this subject cannot be "proven" scientifically or any other way. YEt people still demand that someone or something "prove" it for them!

HOwever, there's a silver lining in even the thickest, darkest and most annoying of clouds. These observations will become Chapter 3 of my soon-to-be-released "Pothole Psychology".

And I already have the first couple verses of "Jingle For the Single Finger (or, Ode to the Lonely Digit)" too!   Ahhh ... life is good. It says so in the stars!

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 06:56 AM

Furthermore, what is the sound of one finger pressing the button?

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:12 AM

Or one finger on the trigger?

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:12 AM

Or one finger in each ear??

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:18 AM

Never discount the Power of One! (finger)

K I'll give it a break now. It's a long long LONG way to 600    *sigh*

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Gervase
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:22 AM

Do your own investigating, thanks.
Er, I did, and I discovered that astrology was a load of old tosh. See the earlier message way back in the swirlings mists of wittering...

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:39 AM

Er, I did, and I discovered that astrology was a load of old tosh.

MOst impressive, Gervase. A veritable monument of ungenuity!

BTW what is 'old tosh'? We don't have 'tosh' of any age here.
We have lots of nice young tush though.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:45 AM

Ah ... I see ... a load of ole tosh. Gotcha.

(HINT: studying any subject is easier and more productive when the student is untoshed).

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:12 AM

Oh yes, I remember what you were so toshed up about. You found differences between Eastern and Western astrology   (*gasp*    how shocking!) and pondering those differences shorted out your neural circuitry.

Reminds me of how I decided to study language once. Didn't take long to discover that every language is different. Looks different, sounds different, feels different -- and none were comprehensible to me, except my own.

Therefore, all languages are trash. Absolute hooey! And it's up to you to prove they're not. Hurry up now, get typin --- I'm waiting!!!

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:33 AM

Actually, I'm experimenting with the One-Fingered Approach right now. Sounds quite thin and shakey, mind you, but it's fun!

He likes it too, I see.   

And no wonder it's so popular around here ...

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Kweku
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 10:05 AM

Faith is a strong medicine for success.

I know people who worship a small piece of stone,which weighs less than a kilogram and this object has brought them so much luck and good tidings.

Be it in the sky or on the ground,be you non-religious or religious,as a human being you need something to hold on to.

You seldom need the opinions of others,because the very people you rely on, "developed themselves from their selves". And the first rule of success is to know who you are,and one of the ways to do that is through having enough time for yourselve by yourselve. Then you might just come up with your own theory on life, and with time others might just conclude that you are also worthy of being followed.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 10:18 AM

... others might just conclude that you are also worthy of being followed.

Ahhh yes    and therein lies the rub

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST,Edwin Drood
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 11:23 AM

. . . his gaze wandered from the windows to the stars, as if he would have read in them something that was hidden from him. Many of us would, if we could; but none of us so much as know our letters in the stars yet - or seem likely to do it, in this state of existence - and few languages can be read until their alphabets are mastered.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Gervase
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 11:53 AM

You found differences between Eastern and Western astrology   (*gasp*    how shocking!) and pondering those differences shorted out your neural circuitry.

No, you daft bint, I found out that astrologers weren't actually playing with a full deck.
They have too few constellations in the zodiac, fudge the issue of newly-discovered planets and can't answer the issue of precession. And that's not even mentioning gravitational effects, relative masses and geocentricity.
It was the incompatibility between astronomy and astrology that led me to believe it to be bunk, not any differences between eastern and western astronomy. Between science and pseudo-science, not between two brands of pseudo-science.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST,William
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 11:57 AM

Look how the floor of heaven
Is thick inlaid with patens of bright gold.
    There's not the smallest orb which thou behold'st
      But in his motion like an angel sings,
       Still quiring to the young-eyed cherubins;
          Such harmony is in immortal souls,
            But whilst this muddy vesture decay
             Both grossly close it in, we cannot hear it.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 12:15 PM

This will probably be my last post on this thread, as it got too much into the name calling for me.

Daylia, you keep saying that astrology cannot be proven scientifically. However, when I provide an assertion taken from astrology that could be tested scientifically (and indeed has been with negative results), you merely claim ignorance about whether than assertion is indeed one which astology would claim. Therefore you must also claim ignorance over whether science can be used to test astrology's validity. If you cannot see the logic in that statement, then there is no point in trying to have a logical debate with you.

If your beef is that science cannot "prove" as opposed to provide evidence for or against, then that is also true for anything science might tackle. Are you arguing that no scientific results should be taken into consideration on any subject, merely because they do not provide absolute proof of anything?

"It's been said over and over again on this thread that this subject cannot be "proven" scientifically. YEt people still demand that I "prove" it to them!"

Nobody is demanding that you prove anything. Merely that you provide some scientific evidence in support of it, or at least openmindedly examine the evidence that has been put to you.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 12:18 PM

*yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn*   

Oh go cry me a river, Gervase.

Your posts are so juvenile and TIRESOME   *yaaaaaaaaaaaaawn*   I just can't take it anymore.

So sorry, sweetie, but this is absolutely    *yaaaawwn   YYAAAAAAWWWWWWWN* (oooo pardon me) game over for you.

Done.

Caput.

C'est tout.

Voila.

Capiche?????

And if you think I'm just ignoring you from here on in, guess what?
That'll be the first time you've been right about anything yet on this thread, so go for it!

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 12:35 PM

Give it up, Bagpuss. The premises (ie assumptions about astrology) that underlie your so-called "experiment" are fallacious to begin with. Therefore, the whole exercise is a waste of time. You wanna break your brain cells over it? Be my guest. And if you still cannot comprehend what I'm saying, try the following:

1. Study my hundreds of posts here, over and over and over again. WIth enough effort, someday soon a bit of the information might sink in.   

2. Pay very close attention to the links, quotes, and articles from the masters of science, philosophy, spirituality and psychology that I've provided. I mean it -- I'll quiz you on it later!

3. Go back to the Astrodienst site and click on FAQ. They do offer a good introduction to astrology in language even a newbie will understand.

4. Forget it.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 12:49 PM

From the FAQ at Astrodienst:

"This is what astrology can offer you

    * a deeper understanding of yourself, your partner, your child ...
    * clues on your strengths and weaknesses, on challenges and chances in your life ...
    * a closer look at life cycles and topics which are relevant at a certain point in your life ...


Astrology cannot

    * take decisions for you ...
    * tell you whether or not you should get married, are with the right partner or will win the lottery ...
    * know the environment you live or grew up in, the circumstances of your life ...
    * forecast events in the future ..."

Got that last one, folks? Please, read it over and over till it finally sinks in. And remember it next time you come across a "scientific study" (???) attempting to prove or disprove the 'predictiveness' (???) of a natal chart or astrology in general.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 01:55 PM

"This is what astrology can offer you"
You can get the same bullflop from a good 'reading' of a bowl of alphabet soup....

In other words... random chance...

Give yer damn fool head a shake would ya.... Yer scuppered here... and are just too blinkered to see it.....

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 01:57 PM

What I keep wondering is, who is pulling whose chain on this thread? Or is it mutual chain-pulling all around? Or is it just compulsive reactions to previous reactions? If you snarl at a dog, the dog snarls back. If you snarl back again, the dog snarls back again louder. And so on, and so on, until finally somebody remembers it's time to go and eat or something. But then...if they remember "He snarled at me!" after the meal, then they'll return in a bit and go "Grrrrr!" And the dog goes "GRRRRRRR!" And you go "GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!" And in no time at all we've reached 600 posts and achieved glorious Fuck-All doing it, but everyone has at least had the joy of asserting their opinion, haven't they?

And that's another day on the zodiac thread.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 02:14 PM

It's the Full Moon ☺ tonight, Little Hawk -- and a Penumbral Eclipse too (quite rare).

All on the fateful Eve of the Ides of March .... ooooooooooo ....

☺☻ Doo ♪ ^doo ♫ doo ♪ _doo    Doo ♪ ^doo ♫ doo ♪ _doo ☻☺

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 02:27 PM

Looks nice. Maybe we'll get a clear sky tonight and get to see it properly.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 04:22 PM

Well, if we can't the weather's not to blame. Apparently the best places to see tonight's eclipse are Africa and Western Asia.

The moon did look so very weird and wonderful last night though ... almost full, it was sailing behind thick swirling layers of orangey-gold-gray cloud and eerie, writhing veils of feathery black mist. At one point, the clouds slowed and a greenish ring formed around the hazy orange glow encircling 'her' bright face. A bright green and orange rainbow wrapped around the moon, sorta ... never saw anything quite like it before.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: labougie
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:23 PM

Can't help but agree with Little Hawk - some serious mutual masturbation going on here. Irrationals, eccentrics (and even nutters!) ought to be tolerated. It's only when they want to try and get their notions into SCHOOLS and thus into the mainstream that it becomes a completely different matter and should be stamped on. Otherwise, surely the order of the day is amused indulgence? Doesn't the phrase "Yes, dear" spring to mind?

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:39 PM

Indeed, in a reasonably elightened society, one with a bit of social grace, eccentric or offbeat opinions are not just tolerated but valued and enjoyed by most, because they make life more interesting.

Who cares if you don't agree with someone else about astrology or UFOs or whatever it may be? Is it so awful that there are people out there who believe stuff you don't believe? No. It's not awful at all, and it doesn't make them idiots, it makes them interesting. It stimulates thought and imagination.

I like it a lot better than a Puritan village or a bloody dictatorship where everyone has agreed to believe in exactly the same things (or else).

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 01:16 PM

OK, so the rational ones with social grace have set out their stall. As an aside, is it axiomatic that the weaker a position, the more hostile the reaction to having it satirised or questioned? An educated person being lampooned or having his judgement denigrated by a flat-earther doesn't need to get angry - simply pointing to the evidence (whether the evidence is accepted by the lampooner or not) is enough. A believer in astrology (or a theist) similarly baited has no evidence to point to and must perforce take it as an attack on their person/peer group, resulting in fear/anger and (normally enough) hostility. Make sense?

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST,the animal
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 01:34 PM

Can't believe people like Gervaise who doubt the mighty star signs. I'm am Arian, bit headstrong, impulsive and wonderfully strong and sexually inivitive. The other day I read a horoscope saying I was entering a period of dramatic change, financial reward, exitement, pain and ecstasy.

Next day I picked up a handsome redundancy cheque,went to the pub, got absolutely areseholded, met a buxom young wench in similar inebriated state, had great sex in local graveyard, broke my wrist, was arrested, when I woke up in plaster in the cells with a monumental hangover, the female goaler gave me an amazing blowjob in exchange for the remainder of my redundancy payment. How's that for an accurate prediction.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 02:00 PM

"Is it so awful that there are people out there who believe stuff you don't believe?"

It's not that they believe things that I don't... it's that they CLING desperately to medieval superstition and ignorance... Especially in the face of evidence to the contrary....

The stone around the neck of human advancement and enlightenment....

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 03:54 PM

Clinton, believe me, it doesn't matter... ;-D

I know daylia, and she is no millstone around the neck of human advancement and enlightenment....   She's no threat to things like that at all. She has no significance in that regard. What she is, is a very good piano teacher and musician. Period. That is her useful contribution to this society, and it doesn't matter a rat's ass whether she believes in astrology or not.

It really doesn't. It's as unimportant as what you or I believe in. And lemme tell ya...THAT is unimportant, baby! ;-P We're not talkin' about people on whom the future enlightenment of society depends here, Clinton. Society does not need you to defend it from daylia's interest in astrology.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Escamillo
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 03:51 AM

(paraphrasing Clinton)
"Is it so awful that there are people out there who believe stuff you don't believe?"

It's not that they believe things that I don't... it's that they feed multitudes of supposed gurus who make a lot of money out of superstition ! :))

Un abrazo,
Andrés

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 04:31 AM

"I'm am Arian" said GUEST, the animal...

BURN THE HERETIC:

"The sticking point at the Nicene Council was a concept found nowhere in the Bible: homoousion. According to the concept of homoousion, Christ the Son was consubstantial (sharing the same substance) with the Father. Arius and Eusebius disagreed. Arius thought the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were materially separate from each other, and that the Father created the Son.

Arius and his followers, the Arians, believed if the Son were equal to the Father, there would be more than one God. The opposing Trinitarians believed it diminished the importance of the Son to make him subordinate to the Father."

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 05:38 AM

Daylia "The premises (ie assumptions about astrology) that underlie your so-called "experiment" are fallacious to begin with".

How do you know the premises were fallacious? When I asked you about them directly, you said you didn't know because - apparently you are not an expert. You had no comment to make on the fact that other more expert astrologers seemed to think they were good premises for an experiment, and well based on the assumptions of astrology.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 06:17 AM

Bagpass, your grades here are still insufficient. You still fail to understand this very simple concept: "Astrology is not a prediction. It is a description.", and you just cannot seem to fathom how this might relate to that study.

ANd you call yourself a "scientist"??? What kind of prerequisites does your program of study call for? Do they let anyone in who passed kindergarten or what???

It's sobering to know that the scientific community is overflowing with people who think (??) like this. That's how we ended up with Hiroshima, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, the destruction of the ozone layer, genetically engineered disease-causing foodstuffs, the never-ending procession of every more deadly new "super-viruses", the destruction of the rainforest, the annihilation of animal/plant species, the horrible prospect of a world engineered and overrun by a race of genetically-prefabricated super-clones who all look and think like the British Royal Family, Bill Gates or George Bush, etc etc etc.

And you people are terrified of 'gurus'???

Get a grip.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 06:26 AM

PS Little Hawk, my useful contributions to society are much more than just musical. I'm a parent, remember?

And everyone's thoughts and beliefs affect others, via the ripple effect.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 06:51 AM

Hiroshima - the military

Chernobyl, Three Mile Island,- the power industry. Don't you use electric power?

the destruction of the ozone layer, - CFCs, fridges, much of it. Going to do without? Or going to trash the scientists who discovered that it was a problem?

genetically engineered disease-causing foodstuffs, there aren't any, but there could be, especially if people shrug their shoulders and start spouting tripe.

the never-ending procession of every more deadly new "super-viruses",

Evolution driven faster by non- scientific (money driven) msiuse of antibiotics and antivirals.

the destruction of the rainforest, the annihilation of animal/plant species, - land greed and human overpopulation. You can partially blame science for that, it has enabled people to live longer. Back to 25% infant mortality in the first year?

the horrible prospect of a world engineered and overrun by a race of genetically-prefabricated super-clones who all look and think like the British Royal Family, Bill Gates or George Bush, etc etc etc. - I'd like to see the results of engineering done by the Royal Family (especially Phil).

Just pile everything you dislike in a big heap and blame science, then go off, enjoy every comfort you have as a direct result of the complex society you live in. But you want that under the carpet, and pretend it doesn't exist. Play at metaphysics, and parasite on everyone else's hard work in your ignorance. Let someone else do the years of study necessary to understand what the REAL problems are.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 06:57 AM

Look, Bagpuss et al, sorry bout the slights. Please know that I really don't care what, or even if you think about astrology, or anything else. And vice versa (or if you do care about what I think, that caring is sadly misplaced).

As patient as almost 30 years of getting paid to listen to, correct and improve upon other people's awful-sounding music can make a person, I'm losing it here. And it's not worth the aggravation.

Bye, all.

Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 07:06 AM

Play at metaphysics,

Ahhh .... sounds like quantum physics!

and parasite on everyone else's hard work in your ignorance. Let someone else do the years of study necessary to understand what the REAL problems are.

This will be explored in Chapter 4 of "Pothole Psychology". For excellent examples of this type of behavior, see your own posts here Paul. Bagpuss and TIA's too.

Will scientists ever take full responsibility for all of the horrible consequences of their activities? Maybe someday. But I'm not holding my breath. ANd rest assured till that day comes (if it ever does), there's always be plenty of minions about to help pass the buck and continue deluding the public.