BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating

Subject: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 05:21 AM

Davy Crockett, Stonewall Jackson, Ronald Reagan, General Patton, Thomas Edison, Sonny Liston, Jackie Kennedy. Vi har slått dem alle sammen, vi har slått dem alle sammen. George Bush can you hear me?

George Bush, Jeg har et budskap til deg midt under valgkampen: Vi har slått America ut av Verdensmesterskapet i baseball. George Bush. Som de sier på ditt språk i boksebarene rundt Madison Square Garden: Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!

USA out of World Baseball Classic.

P.S. If you want to know why it's in Norwegian, ask an English football fan.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:09 AM

We sucked. Shed no tears. Unlike English football fans, we will survive to comeback again.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:14 AM

silly quote from the article:

"Amercia's (sic) defeat was a massive blow to the nation that invented the game, produces most of the world's top players and considers the sport its national pastime."

piffle! Most of the top players seem to come from the Dominican Republic, Cuba, etc....who ARE still in the running.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:20 AM

Baseball is a poor derivative of that fine English game netball. In England though, netball is only played by GIRLS!

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:25 AM

wow ted, spoken like a true islander, that's quite the putdown. guess we'll just have to grin and bear it, another blot on the ol' escutcheon, wot?
(our girls got


bored
       by your ball game
                            and


joined
         the
             marines.
            )


rath er

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:35 AM

A "massive" blow to the nation?   Hardly.   The US has lost in the Olympics previously. (The Olympics have since dropped the sport.)

If you can gather anything from this loss, it is the FACT that the game is taking hold in other countries. The FACT that Latin American countries produce incredible players and the game has become very strong in Japan and Korea shows the beauty of the game. In a perverse way, I am glad the US was defeated. If we won all the whiners would complain how no one else plays the game and it is only an American sport.   

Baseball appears boring to people weaned on games like football because of the strategy involved. It is much more complicated and requires complete skill, unlike some of the other oafish sports that require little more than stamina to run around a field for 90 minutes and kick a ball.    I love soccer, but it pales in comparison to baseball.

Yes, we will surive. Our ego is intact.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:37 AM

Wrong game, fted, baseball is American for rounders, basketball is American for netball. Football is American for rugby, except that theirs is done dressed up like Mr. Blobby on a motorbike, and they don't play much of the time, and the refs miss even blatant forward passes. Soccer is American for football, and THAT's played by girls, and they cry less than English footballers.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: SunnySister
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:43 AM

It's good for American's to lose once in a while. Teaches us to be good sports (or at least I hope it does :)

--SunnySister, a huge St. Louis Cardinals fan!

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:48 AM

The great thing about baseball is that teams need to cope with losing more than any other sport. The season is long and good teams play around .500 to compete.

It is truly the beautiful game. Give me a sunny summer afternoon at Shea - beer in a wax paper cup, a hot dog and a good pitchers duel. I'm set!

Let's go Mets!

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:54 AM

Paul,
      Yes, sorry there, I forget the correct names for all the old GIRLS games that the Yanks have pinched from us and are now played by their 'men.'

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 11:16 AM

"games that the Yanks have pinched from us"

You mean the games that us "Yanks" have corrected and improved.

I hate the term Yanks. Besides being a Mets fan, I find the use of Yanks to be derogatory.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 11:21 AM

That's true Ted - we Americans have made improvments on so many portions of English culture. I'm not suprised you've lost count. Rest assured though that England is still tops in producing Flamenco guitarists. :]

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 11:22 AM

aw shucks Ron. Here, have my handkerchief to have a big girly cry into!

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 11:24 AM

What, you carry a handerchief? Real men use their sleeve.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:33 PM

I haven't seen any of the teams play, but I'd put a fiver on the Koreans.

Ron... "Yanks" is derogatory? What other term better describes youse guys?

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:37 PM

Elite ? Special ?

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:52 PM

Americans?   

Yanks is roughly the equivilant of being called a limey.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 01:03 PM

Okay. I suppose. Most of the world accepts the misnomer. Even the Limeys. Most of whom, well, at least, my English friends, don't pay much attention to being called a Limey, unless you say it without a smile.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 01:05 PM

I realize it is a minor point, and being called a Yank does not drive me into a rage - but it isn't the nicest thing to say. Especially if you are from the South. You could end up with a black eye if you said it to the wrong person.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 02:25 PM

Ron - I'll believe you if you say so but this is the first time I've heard of folks being upset by the work Yanks. But I live in Texas. We tend to use the formal term "Damn Yankees" - esp if we're talking about the baseball team. But I'll be more careful when I use it in the future.

Of course I've been known to call George W a "carpetbagger" since he came from the north and settled in the south to make money. But people still think he's a Texan.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 02:47 PM

Usually when the term "Yankee" or "Yank" is used the intent is to separate the individual because of some trait that is not considered to be the norm. It could be something innocent as "those Yankees don't have good BBQ" but the implication is that we are deficient in some fashion.

In the earlier part of this thread, the word Yank was used to say that we Americans stole an English game and we are a bunch of girls for playing it. That bothers me. A little. Nothing to lose sleep over.

Again, it is minor and I don't think anyone would take serious offense to it - but it can be irritating.   The same thing with the word "redneck".   Terms that separate and isolate groups because of a geographic difference is the same as using a term that demeans people because of race or religion. I am sure that there are people reading this that are saying - there he goes, being too PC again. Maybe I am. If we can't fix the little things then the big things will never get fixed.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: freightdawg
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 07:59 PM

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but losing in this "made for tv" special was no great loss. The team was not made of true all stars who were bent on winning. This is early pre-season and most of the guys would be trying to get up to speed and not work themselves into a major season or career ending injury. There is really no way to figure out the "best" in this sport because to do so would eat up about a month of time in the middle of the season and would require the Americans to really care - something they manifestly do not unless multi-millions are at stake.

Remember back when pros were first allowed to compete in the Olympics? Who could touch the U.S. basketball team? Now other nations are fielding teams that play better fundamentals and better team ball and the U.S. gets beat regularly. Same with baseball. In a 7 game series I believe you could get any one of several American professional teams that would beat the national teams of many foreign countries. But you will never get a conglomeration of U.S. players to care for an out-of-season specatacle that means nothing and could prove to be detrimental to their bank accounts.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: GUEST,chinmusic
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 11:32 PM

Here in the Great White North, we are still licking our wounds from Canada's dismal showing at the Winter Olympics... Though the majority of NHLer's still come from Canada, it's long since been acknowledged that European countries ( and the U.S.) are producing world class talent, as proven by the number of stars currently playing in the NHL.....

There's no doubt, in my humble opinion, that the best baseball talent in the WBC still belongs to the States, but as Mr. Olesko pointed out, this gap is also quickly closing..... Putting aside national pride, I think this is all very positive for the 'grand old game' thereby providing major league baseball with an influx of new and exciting talent to shine from other parts around the globe......

Getting a chance to see the passion and emotion displayed by the players from Puerto Rico, Cuba, The Dominican Republic and Mexico, as examples, has been the highlight of the tournament for me...... The fans are also very much an intregal part of this process.... As a diehard baseball, I welcome and look forward to seeing the WBC continue on, with certain tweaks and changes to the format......

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: GUEST,robomatic
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 01:49 AM

There is a breed of Yank that exports poorly and deserves to be trounced royally. A good example would be in the '72 Olympics when a giant of an American wrestler named Chris Taylor who weighed in at some gargantuan figure and was winning matches it seemed just by lying down (on his opponent). He was flipped by his German opponent Wilfreid Dietrich and the photograph was turned into a poster and displayed prominently at my university gymnasium as a sign of pride, falls, and bloated Americans. I tend to think of this photo and remember the event whenever I see a Hummer.

Robo only slightly bloated American

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:03 AM

Baseball/Rounders- According to Bill Bryson's (highly readable) "Made in America" the OED's first citation for the word "Baseball" dates from 1744.
The first American reference to a bat in the context of play dates from 1734.
Contemporary documents refer to Washington's troops at Valley Forge passing time by "playing at Base."
Bryson speculates that Baseball may have originated in America.
This is not proven but as yet it is not disproven either.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 09:57 AM

The other issue to point out is that "national pride" is not a huge draw to sports in this country. While many countries practically shut down when it comes to soccer's World Cup, most sporting events of this type barely draw a notice in the U.S.    Even the Olympics has a passing interest here.   The 1980 Hockey team drew a lot of attention, but the story was more of cheering on the underdog than the national angle. While coverage in this country tends to overwhelming concentrate on the U.S. players, the media is quick to recognize international success stories in Olympic competition.

With baseball, this recent event was not much more than an exhibition. Many MLB teams downplayed it, and the NY Yankees went out of their way to suppress participation. I understand that Japan was also not enthused about how the competition was organized.

Professional baseball players are not going to risk career ending injuries in a competition like this. The World Series, even if people in other countries cannot understand the signficance of the title and consider it a misnomer, is more important than any national competition could ever be.    I see nothing wrong with that.

On one hand, the U.S. is criticized for being "bloated" and assuming superiority, yet we do not give a rats petootie about an event like a World Cup, we are mocked for lack of pride.   Go figure. On second thought, why bother.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 01:39 PM

I do understand the point of the WBC being little more than a hiccup to the fans in the world of baseball south of the 49th parallel....   My guess is that many of the US players didn't take the elimination out of the tourney all that seriously, and yet there is something to be said about the 'pride' factor, whenever one wears the name of one's country on front of the uniform......   I suppose that would depend on the dedication of the individuals involved.....   However, after watching the zeal, passion and the determination from the players of other baseball playing nations, I think I can safely say that winning this thing would mean a great deal to them, and to their rabid fans...... To be fair, this set of games doesn't have the grind of a 162 game sked.... And yes, politics would also be a factor, particularly if Cuba wins it all......   Castro would probably invoke a national holiday....   

I'm sorry to say that I thought Buck Martinez, being the ex-Jay that he was, didn't do a very good job in managing the US ballclub...... For example, why wasn't Jason Veritak behind the dish in their last game against Mexico? I just never got the feeling that he seemed like 'the skipper' and man in charge in the American dugout. At times, the guy looked more like a cheerleader......

When this tournament started, my enthusiam was rather lukewarm, but I found myself getting caught up in it..... Bottom line, it was simply wonderful to watch baseball again.... I can't wait for the season to begin..

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:04 PM

"yet there is something to be said about the 'pride' factor, whenever one wears the name of one's country on front of the uniform"

It was interesting to see Mike Piazza playing for Italy. I don't think he is a citizen, so I am not sure how they pulled that off.

Yes, there is something about pride for ANY uniform a player wears - be it the USA, NY Mets, or Joes Bar & Grill. I don't think any player gave less of an effort, but I don't think the idea of winning for the country motivated them any more than usual. Professional sports in this country is just in step with that philosophy.

The series has been interesting, and it is good to see the game spreading and being played rather well.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball- One hell of a beating
From: autolycus
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 05:04 PM

Small side point; 'soccer' is not merely the American for association football. It's been the colloquial English term since the 19th century, tho' for a long time it was spelt 'socker'. I have GB soccer books, thus spelt, from the 50s.

Ivor