BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued

Subject: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 07:07 AM

This is the same group that Tom Fox was with. He was found tortured and murdered last week, but the rest have been rescued according to the radio and the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Iraq-Hostages-Freed.html?hp&ex=1143176400&en=1f5f855d017d0445&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 08:55 AM

Yes, and it's cause for celebration!

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 09:12 AM

It sounds as if they were rescued rather than released. It will be ineteresting to hear their story of the past few months.
Welcome back, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 09:35 AM

Wonderful news, just wish Tom had been among them.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 09:40 AM

`We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by Multinational Forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping and so much pain and suffering in Iraq,'' Pritchard said. (co-director of the group they all belonged to in Chicago.)

Other Americans taken hostage in Iraq and killed in addition to Fox were Ronald Schulz, 40, an industrial electrician from Anchorage, Alaska; Jack Hensley, 48, a civil engineer from Marietta, Ga.; Eugene ``Jack'' Armstrong, 52, formerly of Hillsdale, Mich.; and Nicholas Berg, 26, a businessman from West Chester, Pa.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: SunnySister
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 10:43 AM

This is great news!

According to an article I just read, someone viewed Mr. Fox's body and said that they did not see any marks or bruises indicative of torture. Don't know what to think...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060323/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_hostages_freed_9;_ylt=AsYAXxPoLxB_N30tgxBuxZFX6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9m

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 11:04 AM

I'm thrilled. Without a shot being fired, and based on what a prisoner had told them just hours earlier.

It's odd. So often captives report that there was no ill treatment of them- and from time to time a captive is murdered. Wonder if it has mainly to do with the luck of the draw on who is in charge that day.

I'm so sick of this war. What are we doing there.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: number 6
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 11:08 AM

Great news from a tragic mess.

I repeat Ebbie's statment "I'm so sick of this war. What are we doing there"

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 11:18 AM

SunnySister,

From your clicky:"The kidnapped men were shown as prisoners in several videos, the most recent a silent clip dated Feb. 28 in which Loney, Kember and Sooden appeared without Fox. Fox's body was found March 10 near a west Baghdad railway line with gunshot wounds to his head and chest."


from http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/23/iraq.hostages/index.html

"Iraqi police said at the time it appeared that Fox had been tortured because he had bruises and cuts on his body, apparently inflicted before he was shot to death.




Fox's body was found March 9 in western Baghdad with gunshot wounds to his head and chest. His body, which also showed signs of torture, was wrapped in a blanket and dumped on the main road near a train station. His hands and feet were bound.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 11:20 AM

sorry- "Iraqi police said at the time it appeared that Fox had been tortured because he had bruises and cuts on his body, apparently inflicted before he was shot to death."

from your clicky-

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Kweku
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 11:25 AM

"kings and pawns; emperors and fools"

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: GUEST,smiler
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 02:12 PM

As the hostages were found alone, with no captors, I'd guess that a deal was done to secure their release. Especially as Jack Straw made the announcement at a press conference.

Doubt anyone will admit it though.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Little Robyn
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 02:51 PM

Our radio news said when the British troops went in to release them, the Iraqi captors had already fled. Who told them to get out?
And our paper is calling the Canadian Indian Harmeet Singh Sooden a New Zealand student!
Great news anyway!
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 02:57 PM

Bush helped http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bush2.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 03:33 PM

Ebbie, I think the first question is what were those four guys doing there.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 04:00 PM

Well, Guest, I'd say that anytime there are invaders/occupiers/war machines in any country, there will be individuals there who are trying to mitigate the harm.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: number 6
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 04:15 PM

LittLe Robyn ... Harmeet Singh Sooden is a Canadian citizen living and studying in New Zealand. I believe he is married to a New Zealander.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Peace
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 04:18 PM

"I think the first question is what were those four guys doing there."

That's the second question, IMO. The first question is "What's the US doing there?"

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 05:26 PM

Another question I'd like answered: How will we know when we've won?

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Peace
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 06:17 PM

That will be explained in the sequel . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: number 6
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 07:22 PM

And I dread to know of the plot to the sequel.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: SunnySister
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 07:30 PM

BeardedBruce- wow. That's very weird. This morning when I read the article at 6:30am PST. There was information in there that stated that friends of Mr. Fox in Chicago had viewed his body and did not see those noted torture marks.

Now when I re-read the article all mention of it, as you said, is gone. Either it was an incorrect statement and they edited it or something else prompted them to only state that it appeared he was tortured.

Very strange. I know I read what I did. Ugh.

--SunnySister

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Bagpuss
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 06:48 AM

"I think the first question is what were those four guys doing there."

They were peace campaigners.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 06:50 AM

Should a pacifist allow himself to be recued by military force?

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Bagpuss
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 07:00 AM

Actually before the British hostage Norman Kember left for Iraq, he stated that if such a situation were to arise he would not want to be rescued in a military operation. I don't know what he thinks about that now - since it was military, but no force was involved as the captors had fled.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Bagpuss
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 07:06 AM

From the Chritian Peacemaker Teams website:

"We are grateful to the soldiers who risked their lives to free Jim, Norman and Harmeet. As peacemakers who hold firm to our commitment to nonviolence, we are also deeply grateful that they fired no shots to free our colleagues. We are thankful to all the people who gave of themselves sacrificially to free Jim, Norman, Harmeet and Tom over the last four months, and those supporters who prayed and wept for our brothers in captivity, for their loved ones and for us, their co-workers."

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 08:36 AM

Sorry, SunnySister-

When I pulled up the article, there was nothing like that in it... which is why I found another source ( or at least another story- for all I know they are using the same reports over the wire), to see what it said.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: SunnySister
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 11:14 AM

Thanks BeardedBruce for trying to find what I was posting about. I really appreciate your time. Very frustrating as it causes me to wonder if I did read what I did and I know that I did in that article and its changed. Ugh.

The important thing is that three are free and no more were hurt or killed in the process.

TGIF

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 11:12 AM

This group who was rescued and the group of religious morons they come from are the most ungreatful, thankless, mentally disturbed people on the planet. They are in complete denial of the evil of their captors, are lucky they did not get their heads cut off, have no priase for their rescuers, and cannot get past their own inability to differentiate good and evil.

It is great they were rescued, but their heroism takes a big backseat to their rescuers who risked their lives doing so.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: GUEST,Ironic
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 11:22 AM

Thank God there was a military to save the peace activists from the Islamic terrorists that the peace activists had gone to Iraq to protect from the military.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 01:06 PM

They did not go to Iraq to protect Islamic terrorists. They went to Iraq to promote peace. Islamic terrorists are not peaceful.

From your statement, GUEST Ironic, I can only guess that you do not believe peace is worth the effort or that you are incapable of making a similar committment to whatever it is that you believe.

Martin - They never claimed to be heroes and they have expressed their gratitude to those who rescued them. They are quite aware that war is evil. They have also stated that they were not tortured by their captors. That doesn't mean they are mentally disturbed.

I think you should consider your own mental health before you start pointing the fingers at others.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 01:50 PM

"They have also stated that they were not tortured by their captors."

Hmm, one of them was killed by the Islamic terrorists. The rest were held hostage under the threat of death for months, their families not knowing, from day to day if they were dead or alive. Maybe they didn't have bamboo stuck up under their toenails or broomsticks up their asses, but killing and holding hostages is certainly mental torture. Only someone seeking to make excuses for the terrorists would deny that.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: GUEST,robomatic
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 06:41 PM

I was going to upbraid Sunnysister for repeating unverified information that the body of Tom Fox showed no sign of torture. But I respect the fact that she has followed up on it. The New York Times in its report of the killing of Sunni Muslims by presumably government supported Shiite death squads mentioned the tale of a birdkeeper with no political nor religious axe to grind who was abducted in broad daylight. When they found his body it showed that he had been tortured with powertools. There is a photo in the online New York Times about it. WHile it is right to seek to verify information about Tom Fox, it is too early to jump to conclusions about whether or not he was tortured. Surely his co-captives have an inkling.
So no upbraiding from me, but I tend to share the sentiments of Guest, Ironic and Martin Gibson on this matter. At the same time, I am able to respect the dedication of the participants, wrong headed though they be. Some people would have witnessed to the Nazis. Parallel situation here.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: frogprince
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:20 PM

"Some people would have witnessed to the Nazis".
Probably true, and maybe indicative of marked naivette; but it would in no way mean they condoned, or made excuses for, the Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:31 PM

"They have also stated that they were not tortured by their captors."

Yes, of course, being kidnapped and held hostage is mental torture. It is not, however, the kind of torture endured by those at Abu Ghraib.

Nobody is making excuses for anyone. The hostages did not know about the death of their friend. They were not threatened with this knowledge.

Are you making excuses for the torture practices of the U.S. government?

If I had my choice, I'd rather be subjected to the conditions encountered by the hostages than the conditions of those detained by the U.S. government. If you had the choice of captors, who would you choose?

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: GUEST,robomatic
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 12:38 AM

Here's the link to the Shiite death squads (presumably) killing Sunnis in large numbers:

New York Times

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 01:06 AM

What were these hostages, Menonites or Quakers or something like that? They had no business going to Iraq. Obviously , absolutely no one in Iraq took them seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:15 AM

Another good day for hostages:

BAGHDAD -- Jill Carroll, the idealistic 28-year-old American reporter kidnapped by gunmen nearly three months ago, has been released unharmed by her captors today in a rare moment of cheer during one of post-invasion Iraq's bleakest stretches.

"I was treated very well," said Carroll, wearing a light-colored headscarf during an interview broadcast on the television channel of the Iraqi Islamic Party, the country's main Sunni Arab political organization. "They never hit me. They never even threatened to hit me. I'm just happy to be free and want to be with my family."

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 12:28 PM

I was treated very well... is a sentence that I hope has been quoted out of context, for without mentioning that her interpreter has been killed by those people her sentences sound very wrong.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Remaining Religious Hostages Rescued
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 10:28 AM

Didn't GW tell us it was over long ago?

Ebbie asked,"Another question I'd like answered: How will we know when we've won? "

Kris Kristofferson said, in a love song, but it's applicable here,"It's over and nobody wins."