BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread

Subject: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 01:24 PM

We had a thread about the film The Wind That Shakes The Barley.
Some contributors insisted I respond to issues beyond that of the film.
Sorry to everyone else.

This was the most recent challenge to me.


""
I am native, Boise, Idaho. Clearly you support the British remaining in Ireland and defend their crimes against it's people, please answer.

Yeah I noticed to that you ignore the tricky questions. So why post if you only want it one way ?
""

The above was anonymous
I only support the North remaining part of Britain while the majority in the North want that.
Like every one this side of the Irish sea I will be overjoyed when that day comes.
There will be parties, fireworks and dancing in the street.

I do not defend any crmes by anyone.

Next question please.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 01:34 PM

This from Divis Sweeney.

Keith in front of other members as my witness can I ask you these questions once again, simply answer them yes or no.

What would you do if your country was invaded by another countries army. Would you rise up or lay down ?

Have I not on more than one ocassion showed you that the IRA said sorry to it's victims for their campaign ?


Have I not asked you to admit that the British army were guilty of murder of innocent people in Ireland ?

Please Keith answer these simple three questions before more build up.



If invaded I would resist Divis, but only for so long.
Britain was invaded shortly before ireland was.
By William The Bastard and his Norman army.
I do not feel the need to explode any bombs now. Like most people I understand that centuries old history is just that, and just try to make the present world better.
And killing is not the way.


Yes the IRA has said sorry.
I think that is a breakthrough.
I welcome it. Thank you.


I admit that innocent people have been killed by the Army.
Which cases would you call murder Sweeney?

Subject: BS: Irish history and Keith A of Hertford
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 01:36 PM

Keith in another thread you stated several times that you would not answer questions that were put to you about your views on Ireland unless another thread was started on that subject. Well Keith here it is. Get busy.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish history and Keith A of Hertford
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 May 06 - 01:38 PM

Elves - please combine this thread and Keiths - Ta.

Done.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 May 06 - 01:39 PM

Elves - similar comment to the one titled "Keith A etc." Please combine.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 May 06 - 01:42 PM

Normandy does not rule us any more Keith. Does it?

England still rules in Northern Ireland. Doesn't it?

I agree about the violence but but I don't think your first argument holds much water.

Just my bobs worth.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:02 PM

The Normans defeated and occupied Britain.
They retained lands in France which were later lost.
William made himself king.
The Normans never left.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:06 PM

Dave,
I previously made this comparison about old wrongs.

You said you are from the States (or one of you did)
Are you a Native American?
If so your lands were invaded more recently than Ireland was.
Do you think that you should explode bombs in shopping malls and railroad stations because of that? Backshoot young police officers and service people, on and off duty?

Are you a Mexican American from California?
Then your state and others were taken by force from your ancestors much more recently than any part of Ireland.
Your Californian gold financed the industrialisation of USA. Your histories would have been very different.

Should you start killing the Gringos now?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:08 PM

USA does still rule California.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:15 PM

Sorry, don't follow that, Keith. Probably me but can you explain what USA ruling California has to do with it? Last I heard Californians were quite happy with the situation.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:24 PM

Keith were you a full time serving soldier in Ulster or just a territorial ?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:25 PM

Yes they are.
It was too long ago to be worth killing people over now.
The question was what should you do if invaded.
I am saying that after a few centuries, there is no one to exact revenge on.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Billy McKinley
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:27 PM

Right so the Irish members on this site should come back in two hundred years and then they will be cured ?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:28 PM

Bente,
I am a school teacher and have been since 1972.
I was never a regular soldier.
The TA was never used in NI.
We only trained to resist the Warsaw Pact armies.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:29 PM

Not what I am saying Billy.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:37 PM

Sorry Dave I am being overwhelmed a bit.
Yes the Californians are happy to be ruled by USA.
The majority of Irish people in the North are happy to be ruled by Britain.
You, me and everyone else in Britain wish they would change their mind .
Luckily demography will achieve that soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: ard mhacha
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:44 PM

Keith that hole is getting deeper, boarding it up would be a good idea now, too late I think it has caved in.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:47 PM

Thanks Keith. You more than most members seem to hold a strong interest in Irish affairs. You continuously attack the IRA. Only on occasions when pushed do you show any abhorrence to the loyalist paramilitaries. You constantly refer to Republicans bombing shopping centres or railway stations and shooting young policemen and soldiers in the back. Have you ever referred to the loyalists for placing bombs in public houses or attacks such as Greysteel ? And the fact it was loyalists that shot dead the first policeman in the troubles and also the last one ? If you have can you please refer me to the thread or post ? If you were Irish and living in Northern Ireland during the troubles how do you think you would have reacted to some of the events other members listed ? he IRA ceasefire is near ten years old and last year they said they disbanded.
Do you not accept this ? Or do you think they should still be hounded as your views tend to lead me to believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Billy McKinley
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:51 PM

The majority of Irish people in the North are happy to be ruled by Britain.

So why has Sinn Fein the second largest vote in Northern Ireland. These Catholics don't appear too happy or does their voice not count ?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: ard mhacha
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:52 PM

Bente, Do you not think it is time to give Keith a fools pardon,reading this latest load of tripe is proof enough that this man has lost the plot.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:53 PM

Bente, I do accept it.
I despise Loyalist AND Republican paramilitaries.
There are no Mudcat contributors who argue the case for Loyalist paramilitaries, so I have no one to debate with about them.

Thanks for your concern Ard.

Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:54 PM

Billy,
Second comes after first.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:55 PM

ard mhacha, I only want answers to questions. It was he who said in another thread he wanted to answer questions in another thread on Ireland. I agree I am not really getting the answers I require, he is tending slightly to run of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:57 PM

Arde,
Just calling what I say tripe does not give me anything to reply to.
Please give examples of where I am wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:00 PM

Bente, not wanted to answer, but prepared to give in to all the requests.
It is a bit lonely actually.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:02 PM

So those who argue the case for Republican paramilitaries should not speak out in what they believe in Keith ? I note you feel quiet as ease having your speak, which I feel is only proper and correct. So really what you are saying is when they say sorry or want only peace in Ireland that is still them arguing the case for Republican paramilitaries ?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:11 PM

Bente,
Everyone is free to speak out for what they believe.
Everyone is also free to say that they disagree.
That is debate.
Your final sentence is wrong. I am not saying that.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:29 PM

Keith you said that the IRA robbed the Northern Bank and that they were involved in acts of terrorism in Columbia and they killed a man in a bar fight in Belfast. You were certain of all these. Can you provide proof, not hearsay that they were ? I cannot find any information on the net that any member or ex member of the IRA was ever charged with these crimes you placed at their door. The Northern Ireland Police force is recognised as the most advanced police force in Europe and they still haven't found the proof that you have. Please elaborate and provide your proof.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:31 PM

Bente,
You must have been on the forum a long time to know so much about me.
I am honoured that your first ever post was to me.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:36 PM

Keith we were in touch last year ?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:40 PM

Glad I made such an impact on you that you don't remember me !

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:45 PM

Bente,
I can not prove who did the bank job (obviously) and never said I could.
I did point out that the governments, police and security services of both Britain and Ireland said that they did.
I also noted that a Republican in the South was found to have bank notes to the value of $ 3 Million US in a bin in his back yard.
Not proof but...
Another Republican tried to burn so many banknotes that clouds of them emerged from his chimney and covered the neighbourhood with singed money.

The bar killing would be the McCartney murder. The IRA admitted that their members did it and offered to shoot them.

I forget now what became of the Columbian suspects.
They did stand trial.
They said that they were in the terrorist controlled area to do some bird watching and not to train them in explosive techniques.
It was coincidence that they started using far more sophisticated bombs then, against ordinary people in the street.

Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:47 PM

Sorry I do not remember you Bente.
I just clicked on your list of posts.
Today's was the first.
I expect you had a different handle.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:58 PM

So really you just repeated what other people thought.

YOU did not say on this site that the IRA were active in Columbia ? Were any of the notes this man was burning found to be from the Northern Bank ? So it was it the IRA or an IRA member that killed Mr. McCartney ?

I was looking up on the net there that the only notes found from the Northern Bank robbery were found in a Belfast police club in Feb 18, 2005. Did you ever blame the police ? If they were found in Sinn Fein's office would you of blamed them ?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 03:59 PM

Sorry Keith I cannot remember the subject, but it was last summer. I am there somewhere. I am not a messer.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:06 PM

I repeated it because it was relevant to the debate.
As you say, the NI police are good and their opinion should be considered seriously.
The notes could not be traced so there were no charges.
How many legitimate reasons are there for burning or keeping such amounts in a garden bin.

It was an IRA member killed Mr. McCartney.

Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:14 PM

Sadly opinions don't bring convictions. I remember a book maker who burned a lot of money in his back garden in Swindon, don't think he was in the IRA. So it was the IRA that killed Mr. McCartney. Why did the government not tell them that their ceasefire was worthless then ?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:17 PM

Bente,
THE IRA SAID IT WAS THEIR MEN DID IT
I am prepared to believe them.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:22 PM

So if the IRA went to kill Mr. McCartney the ceasefire is void. If a british soldier killed his own child, as one did recently, would you say the army sent him to do it ?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:30 PM

Bente, it was a bar brawl, not an IRA operation.
I never once criticised the IRA over the murder.
We discussed it in several threads.
I did say that Sinn Fein officers were in the wrong if they destroyed evidence of the murder and intimidated witnesses and the bereaved as local Nationalist people said they did.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:37 PM

Sorry I was not aware that Sinn Fein destroyed evidence or intimadated witnesses. That is so wrong. Or were you again going on hearsay ? I heard many things said about the British army on another thread. There is evidence on the web about the things that were said. Really I should dismiss every remark made about them until I find proof on the net. Actually so should you until there is firm proof, not hearsay if you don't mind me saying Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:43 PM

I was not there, Bente, but the local people who were there were very angry and there were street demonstrations against IRA and Sinn Fein.
Such demonstrations in a Nationalist area never happened before or since.
Bente, this is all going over old ground.
No one else is interested.
I said I would answer your questions, but please join or use a member's computer so we can do it by PM
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:49 PM

Anyway, it is Saturday night and I am off out.
All the best to all my readers, and I hope you both have a peaceful night.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Bente
Date: 27 May 06 - 04:53 PM

No Keith I am fine with the answers you gave.

On the news I saw several demo's against internment and murders by British soldiers, those people looked angry too.

Yes it's all going over old ground, as it's an old subject and the only terrorists in Northern Ireland now are loyalist ones. I am not defending the IRA just wanted answers which you gave honestly. Focus on the loyalist's Keith as their terror is ongoing if you hate terrorists so much. IRA is old ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: John O'L
Date: 27 May 06 - 06:07 PM

Well done Kieth. I don't agree with a lot of what you say a lot of the time, but you have done a terrific job here under considerable pressure.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: John O'L
Date: 27 May 06 - 06:08 PM

Keith, I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 06 - 06:23 PM

John O'L. Keith under his other mudcat handle.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: John O'L
Date: 27 May 06 - 06:33 PM

Receipt of anonymous stupidity acknowledged.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 06 - 07:08 PM

Well done Keith. I don't agree with a lot of what you say a lot of the time, but you have done a terrific job here under considerable pressure.

Only someone on a substance would make such a comment !
It's the first thread on mudcat that the member who created it posted one third of the posts himself!

If you can focus man , what great job did he do ?

Blamed people in the wrong?
Repeated rumours without evidence of a conviction?
Made statements, then said, I am only repeating what I heard !

It was sad to read a members post earlier saying that another member was digging a hole for himself, sad because it was true.

I used to enjoy Keith A of Hertford's posts and often agreed with him, found him humerus. As one other member in a pm to me tonight said whilst Discussing another music thread, someone remarked he'd lost the plot. Sadly have to agree. We noted "absence" of other members who once came to his defence.

I tend to leave Irish issues to the Irish. Come back the old Keith minus your dislike of Irishmen, be they terrorists, republicans, musicians or members!

And yes before you start, I am a member, but GUEST in this case is what I would like to be known as. Not getting into this sad silly game which serves no other purpose only to offend and insult Irish members for what they wish to believe in. Live and let live PLEASE.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 06 - 07:19 PM

Here here.