Concertina

Subject: Concertina
From: GUEST,Morrisloverjohn
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 07:33 AM

I really want to learn to play the concertina (I currently play the guitar, and can read music). However I'm very confused about which one to buy - an Anglo or an English concertina. I really want to learn to play Morris tunes and English dance music. Which would be the best option? Your help in this matter is greatly appreciated. there is alot of info on the web, but it leaves me more confused than ever.

Thanks

John

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 07:42 AM

Anglo is a common choice for Morris, English is common enough for dance music. Why not compromise and try a duet?

Paul Burke

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 07:52 AM

A duet isn't a compromise, it's an excellent first choice.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,helen
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 08:14 AM

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 08:16 AM

Have a look at concertina.net. There have been plenty of discussions on this topic on the forum there, but the best advice is try as many concertinas as possible. Nothing beats hands-on experience to determine which way to go.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Fidjit
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 08:20 AM

look up concertina.net they should be able to help.

There are workshops also that you could go to to get the feel for it.

Chas

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 08:25 AM

Hi,

Are you able to try different models - to see what feels comfortable ?

I chose english because I don't like the diatonic (different notes push & pull ) nature of anglos, but having chord buttons would be useful !

Price might be a factor for you, unfortunately they are not cheap instruments.

Are you able to get to a festival or dealer to try out the diferent kinds ? Or maybe a concertina group - though you may start a civil war about the merits of the anglo v english etc.

.... duets have too many buttons for my taste, though they can sound great.

How about listening to some of the really good players - see if there is a style you would like to go with & needs a particular kind of concertina.

I do know people who play both anglo & english, but not many - it does seem sensible to weigh the pros & cons before putting the time ( & money in ).

On other factor - individual concertinas can have very different sound qualities - you may one you particularly love the sound of, & nevermind the science bits.

Good luck

Jim

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 08:38 AM

There's nothing 'compromising' about a Duet. Are you suggesting that it's not fully chromatic but more so than an Anglo? It's not that. It may be less scary to those with a diatonic phobia who'd thus run miles from an Anglo but it's still very hard (I speak from the vast experience of half an hour when a friend who'd recently taken it up tried to tell me it was only 'moderately difficult', compared to an English). Personally I find English fingering completely logical, and suitable for most dance music, though the Anglo is preferable for the more staccato southern English style and more or less essential for Cotswold Morris.

It really depends on what styles you want to play and whether you can cope with notes being in strange places (or not there at all), and how many keys you'll need to play in.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 08:45 AM

I play English so am perhaps biased but if you do decide that that is the one for you I have an excellent Lachenal 48 key English which was my starter before I bought an Edeophone. If you are interested pm me.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 08:54 AM

No, just saying that a duet can do "chunky" chords for Morris, but also has the flowing flexibility of the English for "subtler" tunes. On a MacCann, the simpler chords tend to be easy line vectors, and it's quite easy to put in an accordion style left- hand. In fact, as an occasional player, my big problem is overdoing the chords.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: EBarnacle
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 10:49 AM

"Price might be a factor for you, unfortunately they are not cheap instruments." One of the beauties of a good concertina is that you can always get your money back when [if ever] you decide to sell.

One of the advantages of the English system is that you can do natural triads and thirds with one finger. It just takes practice. As an English player, I am prejudiced. I have had my Wheatstone for more than 30 years and have bought and sold several others. None has made me as happy.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: IanC
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:03 AM

John

Pick something you'll find easy to learn. If you read music and play the guitar, then the English Concertina is probably your babe. Also, if you play piano or you like doing things in various keys, then the English Concertina is probably best. This comes from someone who is quite biased as I play and sell Anglos.

For intuitive unlearned people like me, and for morris and dance tunes, then the Anglo Concertina is good. No bother about which key to play in (just play everything in G or C ... all the other Morris musicians will be doing anyway, as they need to play together).

You need to have some idea, though, of how much you'd like to pay and how likely you are to stick with it, as it were.

Are you in the UK? and what part of the country.

PM me if you feel I could give you more individual help.

:-)
Ian Chandler
Kirby Manor Music
Ashwell, Herts. UK

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: JohnB
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:11 AM

If you have a local Morris team, go and talk to their players, see what they play. Have a go at a couple of different ones if you can.
I personally (though I don't have either) find the English action more sensible. I have great problems with both cencertina's and melodians?button boxes of the anglo persuasion. I can never find the note I want.
You could always try a Piano accordian, which are just like a piano, which may be easier if you read music. That's what our main Morris Muso uses, he plays piano and could not get the hang of that Diatonic Anglo thing.
JohnB.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:15 AM

To confuse matters still more in Irish sessions it seems to be the Anglo that is favoured - But played in the inimitable Irish style. Lots of session tunes in D are prety easy on the C/G box. Well, for those with clever fingers, unlike me! Never realy fancied a G/D but can see some advantages, particulaly for English Dance and for playing along with the ubiquitous D/G melodeon:-)

Cheers

DtG
Proud owner of a 30 button Lachnal C/G Anglo. Willing to part ex my old, pretty poor if truth be known, Hohner C/G for something interesting if anyone wants to take me up:-)

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:20 AM

Thre are duets and duets.

I play McCann duet for morris -- not very well, possibly, but I get by. This is the "too many buttons" duet, but the right hand is simple enough to play. The left hand (to me) is not very intuitive. Umm, that's a tactful understatement; what I actually mean is that (as the man who sold it to me 25 years ago explained it), the fingering pattern seems to suggest that Mr. McCann labeled a whole lot of birdshot with A through G, shot that into a hexagonal piece of wood, and used the result for the fingering pattern.

The concept of the duet is that you're supposed to be able to play a duet between the left hand, which has the low notes, and the right which has the high. On the McCann, I've never gotten to the point where I could do that freely; I still have to memorize all my left-hand fingering patterns.

However, I've also got a Crane (Triumph) duet that I'm starting to learn. Unlike the McCann system, which is played with four fingers per hand (making it possible to play quite fast), the Crane is a three-finger system. This makes it more suitable for slower tunes than fast (but it's fast enough for morris, I think), but the great thing is that this means it has the advantage of identical fingering patterns for the left and right hands. the first time I picked up this instrument, I found I could actually play a duet between my left and right hands.

Hope that helps.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: IanC
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:33 AM

Thing about any kind of Duet, though, is that they're rare and expensive. If you're learning, you want something other people have got and which doesn't cost an arm and a leg in the 1st place.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 03:15 PM

ClaireBear said:

Mr. McCann labeled a whole lot of birdshot with A through G, shot that into a hexagonal piece of wood, and used the result for the fingering pattern

Yes, I did wonder. The person who tried to tell me that I'd find the Duet only 'moderately difficult' has a scatter-shot divided mind. Though this is not so acute a condition as that displayed by a a diatonichead. When I put this theory to a melodeon player he said: 'Me schizophrenic? Yes, I am. No I'm not. Who said that?'

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 08:13 PM

"duets have too many buttons for my taste, though they can sound great."

It's just an English, with all the notes shuffled around...


Actually, my McCann is more logically easier to play in certain 'home keys'...


If you can pick up a mouth organ and not get confused, then the Anglo is just one split into two pieces, with bellows.

If you like the 'logicality' of the piano keyboard, then the English is more for you.


Duets are for the esoterically sanguine....

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: EBarnacle
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:54 PM

If you can walk, chew gum, sing and play the fiddle simultaneously, get a duet.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:57 PM

Mmmm
Have been called a lot of things in my time, but "esoterically sanguine" isn't one of them. Quite like it though!!!
R

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 12:29 AM

EBarnacle.
Are you referring to Jim Eldon by any chance..(not sure about the gum bit!!)
R

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Fliss
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 03:12 AM

I play Irish music on an English concertina, dont think I could get my head round a push me pull you Anglo. Its a bit more difficult to get the bounce out of an English system thats needed for the Irish music, but I try!

Ive had my Lachenal 48 key since I was 9. Its 1880s so is a venerable instrument. Ive also got an 1930s Lachenal, which sounds louder in sessions.

As everyone says its a matter of what you feel comfortable with.

good luck with your mission... keep pressing the buttons:))
fliss

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Paul Burke
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 03:23 AM

Just because they CALL it a duet, it doesn't mean you have to play duets on it! I just do simple cluster chords with the left hand, which tend to drop out when the tune goes down left. It's all very simple, morris-ish rather than Morrisey. I just wish I could play a bit faster without losing my finger memory.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 05:08 AM

For the record the McCann fingering pattern IS the same in the left and right hands - it just feels different because you have to employ the opposite finger.

I'd probably advise against the duet for faster tunes (which may not exclude Morris, of course). Slower tunes are ok (Eastern European drinking tunes, specially), but try playing a duet in an Irish session - aaaaaaagh! Duets were designed for marching bands (or so I've been told) and church use - and they're prefect for that - but don't try to play fast or your fingers will knot and there's a nasty stretch between C# and F#, which you need a lot in D.

There is a good logic to the lay-out but it takes a long long long time to find it!

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,stevethesqueeze
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 11:16 AM

My what a lot of interest your question has caused!!

In my humble view as an elderly semi professional musician I think that all the three main systems are really good and useful. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Don't be put off as you can play most things on most types. Just try them all if you can. Prices for instruments are ridiculously high and much snobbery exists in the concertina world. The cheaper italian anglo's can sound great in the hands of a good player and a fine Jeffries anglo can sound squeaky and bad when played by a poor player. Many years ago I was ashamed of a tattered old Hohner concertina I had at a workshop, it was the only thing I could afford at that time. During one of the tuition sessions I bemoaned the fact until Alistair Anderson picked it up and played it. It sounded fantastic! best wishes stevethesqueeze

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Crane Driver
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 04:41 PM

You may (or may not) be surprised to learn that I play the Crane duet - for song accompanyment, in a ceilidh band and, in my wonderfully mis-spent youth, for Morris dancing. I've owned Anglos, Englishes and McCann duets in my time, but sold them all again, because anything I want to play comes easier and better on the Crane.

For me, anyway.

As said above, try them all if you can, and go with what works for you.

Andrew

BTW - as far as I know, NO concertina comes with chord buttons.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 07:50 PM

You're right, CD, but the buttons are close enough so you can do thirds, fifths and triads with one finger, as long as it's a natural chord.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Bernard
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 08:01 PM

I play piano accordion, English concertina, Anglo concertina and melodeon (amongst other things), and I would recommend the Anglo as being the better choice for Morris music, as it is far easier to play more than just the straight melody on one.

As we have a few musicians who play melodeon in our side, I tend to play either accordion or Anglo, though I do prefer the English for 'Second Morris (Badby)'.

I'd say the Anglo was as near as you're likely to get to a concertina with chord buttons, too - although the English 'chord triangle' method seems straightforward on the face of it, the reality is it can be rather complex because of the less than ideal placement of some accidentals (muso-speak for sharps and flats!).

In simple terms, a triangle may give you a major chord or a minor chord, it isn't a fixed pattern as such.

Wheatstone originally designed the English to make reading music easier - the notes on the left are one the lines, with the notes on the right in the spaces... then it got complicated!

At least with the Anglo, if you stick to the 'home' keys, holding buttons down on the same row will give you auto-chords to some extent, a bit like the bass end of a melodeon.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 08:37 PM

"In simple terms, a triangle may give you a major chord or a minor chord"

But....

Depending on what key you are playing in (and this is what I mean about the basic 'Home Keys' of the McCann!), aren't some of those 'Minor Triads' just exactly the related ones you 'need' anyway?

:-)

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Eye Lander
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 06:24 AM

Andy and I are both learning the English, he by ear and me with the dots! We both had a little printed grid that sat quite nicely on the top of our concertinas (good old blu tac) that told us where the notes were until we got the feel of the instrument, and as mentioned earlier Concertina.net ia a brilliant site that's where I found the grid. I tried the Anglo and didn't really get on with it but then again I couldn't get to grips with the melodeon either perhaps that's why I have fallen for the English - but I LOVE it, can't play very well yet, but that doesn't stop me!! Andy says the 1 major advantage is that the English will play in any key.

Jillie

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 06:56 AM

My take on the McCann.

Have played it for many years. V difficult to get to grips with at first. But, perseverance is all!
It's "home" key would be C major.
(Always best to start with no accidentals IMHO)
Going up the Sharp road. G (1 Sharp) D (2 Sharps) A (3 Sharps) E (4 Sharps) are pretty intuitive, well to me anyway!
The Flat route is a bit more problematic.
F (1 Flat) is Gods own key for me. and having cracked the system, is so easy. B Flat (2 flats) is about as far as I've got, and I really have to concentrate!! I think that it's the "thinking backwards problem that foxes me.

I really hope that I never have to attempt a tune in A Flat or C Sharp!

Really agree that it can't do the hyperspeed antics of the English, or the danceable bounce of the Anglo (Mind you, I do try to emulate both on occasions!) but, for the enquiring mind, the McCann and Crane Duets are the Guvnors...For deranged minds try the Jeffries Duet!!!

Whatever, all Concertinas are a joy to play, and to listen to, and unlike a Double Bass, you can get them on the bus!!

Good Luck all who wish to try.
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 07:33 AM

Or one in Ab minor with seven flats which makes you realise how they got named 'accidentals'. I was about to explain the 'rule of 7' on how to get from 4 flats BEAD to 3 #s CGF without resorting to manuscript paper when I realised it had got mixed up with a list of Thame cab numbers in the back of a notebook (and anyway what you really need to know is how to get to the relative minot and it's really amazing how few people realise that all you need to do is subtract 3 backwards) but if/when you really have occasion to get from A flat to A major you subtract the 4 flats from 7 and end up with 3 #s. And so on.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 07:52 AM

Sorry, could you start again, I ran out of fingers...

I'll take me shoes off...

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 08:14 AM

You can manage with you own fingers and toes if you confine yourself with present-day equal temperament for wusses but if you try Han Chinese toons you'll need to keep a flock of tame centipedes.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Fliss
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 05:56 PM

Its odd, Ive been playing English concertina since I was 9 and guitar since I was 15 - I can read the dots for my concertina playing, but dont know the chord patterns. However, on the guitar I know the chords but not the individual notes or what notes go into each chord. I dont know much about 3rds 5ths etc. I just play and If I want to change pitch on a guitar I put on a capo, and have no idea what key Im playing in only that my voice sounds better in that capo placing. Also on the concertina, if I want to play higher or lower I just start on another note and the sharps n flats fall into place as I know my fingering like the back of my hand.

I suppose I m not interested in how the tune is built up only what it sounds like. I play for relaxation not to fry my head with mathematical problems:))

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Alan Day
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 06:13 PM

If you would like to hear examples of Anglo playing I would recommend Anglo International 3CD of playing styles from around the World.
I am currently working on a follow up English International and next year Duet International.
I am writing this mainly to attract Duet players who I do not know to contact me.Ralphie is already on my list as is a number of other players.
In reply to this question my original recommendation would have been the Anglo as the different direction of notes lend itself to the style of music and dance.However after listening to great playing of all different systems, I cannot rule out any concertina type.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 06:40 AM

Hope you'll include Tim Laycock in the Duet recording, Alan

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,tony geen
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 07:59 AM

I've been on holiday or I would have leapt in earlier.

I play MacCann duet, and I find it GREAT for morris. I can get a really good dancey style. Most morris tunes are in G, D, A minor or E minor which are all easy on the MacCann.

To say the layout is illogical is largely irrelevant (- presumably you posted your comment on a 'qwerty' keyboard !!) In fact playing chords is a bit like on guitar - each chord is its completely own shape and you just learn them. After a time I found I hardly have to think about the left hand end, apart from choosing which chord I want.

Most morris concertina players seem to use anglo, probably for historical reasons. Many people will tell you it only sounds right on the anglo, but that's because that is what it's usaually played on.

I love the English concertina, but it doesn't encourage a dancey style like what you want for morris, but no doubt it can be done if you try.

All the best with whatever you end up with. By the way, anglo is probably easiest to play standing up.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 08:02 AM

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,tony geen
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 08:04 AM

Oh, and a separate message for Alan Day -

Regarding Duet International, I once heard a superb MacCann player at Kilve a few years ago. She was called Lesley and her surname was something like Hennessey or Henneker. She would be well worth tracking down.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 11:46 AM

May I respectfully draw people's attention to Sandra Kerr's all-day all-systems concertina workshop at the Lewes Arms, Lewes, East Sussex BN7 1YH, UK, on Saturday 8th. July? Sandra performs at the Lewes Arms Folk Club in the evening.

The music for the workshop is now ready to be sent out (Noble Squire Dacre, Josefina's Waltz, The Cutty Wren, Whinham's Reel, Nancy Clough, Go To Berwick, Johnny).

Full details and a booking form can be found on the Lewes Arms Folk Club website http://members.aol.com/lewesarmsfolk
or you can PM me.

Valmai (Lewes)

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 02:27 AM

Message to Mr Tony Geen.
Always interested to hear of other Duet players.
Have not come across this lady...Any other info?

And a note for Alan.
Although I'm sure you have Iris Bishop, Chris Coe, Gavin Atkin, Michael Hibbert, Jon Boden, Tim Laycock, Alexander Prince, Tommy Williams, etc.....Mr Ed Rennie (of Bismarcks fame) also plays Duet.
In fact we might be recording something special for your project!!
(A sort of Duet/Duet!)
Also Sylvia Needham oop north.. (You can find her via Keith Kendrick)

End of thread drift

Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Fliss
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 03:20 AM

Pity Im not down in Sussex till early august or Id have loved to have come to the workshop, Valmai.

Ive been to the Conertina Club at the Newhampton pub in Wolverhampton once, but it was all from the dots and I learn by ear then look at the dots occasionally. Its all systems.

West Midlands Concertina Club, first Saturdays, Newhampton Inn, Riches Street, Wolverhampton (01902 742937)

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 03:36 AM

Ah, Fliss, that sounds like my bro-in-law Steve Goodyear's monthly session. What system do you play? I would PM you but I don't know how to do it.

The Lewes Arms Folk Club also has workshops this year with

John Kirkpatrick
(Anglo system only, full day, Saturday 16th. September, £30)

Alistair Anderson (tunes of Will Atkinson for all concertina systems, Saturday 28th. October, morning only, £15).

The tutors perform at the Lewes Arms Folk Club in the evening. I'm keeping a list of interested people (send postal addresses, please) but not taking payment for bookings until a bit nearer the time.

Valmai (Lewes, Sussex)

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Fidjit
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 04:07 AM

Check out concertina.org They have links to workshops in the Bristol area.

Chas

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Fidjit
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 04:32 AM

A good workshop is East Anglian Tradition Music Association, in March. Well worth the visit just to see all the instruments (130+ last march!)They also have stalls as well with loads of different types for sale, which you can try.

Chas

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Fidjit
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 04:36 AM

Sorry should have been East Anglian Traditional Music Trust. (Whatever) And the concertina.org also have contacts everywhere not just Bristol.

Chas

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Alan Day
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 03:57 PM

I have not really started on Duet International, but I am collecting recordings along the way and names.Many or most of the names you mentioned Ralphie I will try to include and to Guest I already have two fantastic recordings of Tim Laycock ,but have to ask his permission to use them.One is him singing "Stormalong" and the other That Magnificent Man on the Flying Trapeze"both live performances with a very enthusiastic audience.Stormalong certainly shows his ability with playing the Duet.I may have found some rare recordings of Tommy Williams,which I am investigating.The best news of all is that after my phone call Jean Megly has come out of retirement,which is fantastic news for the Duet Concertina World.I have a wonderful recording of him playing a set of Swedish tunes.With a few archive performances of Perci Henri,Alexander Prince,Brigadier Archie Burgess,Proffessor McCann ,without doing much yet, it is already sounding quite exciting.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 03:58 AM

Sorry for magnificent read daring.Wrong flying machine.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 04:33 AM

Wow! You've tracked down the elusive Megly!!
Please send him my very best wishes.
Now, that is someone who really is a Concertina player.
Yes, Yes...I'm still practising. Looking at the rest of your proposed line-up for the Duet CD, I'll still be practising at the start of next year!
Cheers Ralphie

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 06:35 AM

Alan, have you got the duet players David Cornell (American) and John Morgan (Welsh)? They have both been tutors at Concertinas at Witney; Dave Townsend would have contact details.

Valmai (Lewes)

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 07:53 AM

Hallo Valmai
I have Dave Cornell but not John Morgan.I have in fact got his details and not contacted him yet.Many thanks

Sorry Morris for this thread drift
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 08:28 AM

Morrisloverjohn - whichever concertina system you choose, you might like to bear in mind this warning from the poet Lautrator:

'Concertina tacite raro perfectus est coitus.'

Valmai (Lewes)

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Fliss
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 05:40 PM

Um translation for those of us who only managed a year of latin in the Lower IVth!! Something about it being rarely quiet?

Yes it was Steve Goodyear's session. I went along with a friend also learning concertina, it was more to her style as she sticks rigidly to the dots. I also went to a workshop there run by my friend Frances Wilkins of Solen. Ive had a number of lessons with her in 2001/2. Shes one of the best ENglish players around and is still in her mid 20s.. grrr

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 07:59 PM

'Sex with a concertina is rarely accomplished discreetly.' (Barker).

Frances is now living in Sussex and did a good workshop at the Lewes Arms a couple of years ago, but has regrettably been out of circulation for a while.

Tootle pip,

Valmai

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,tony geen
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 07:42 AM

Ralphie -

Sorry, no more I can tell you. She was at Kilve in about 2004 so the WCCP would know.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Fliss
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 07:29 PM

Thanks for the translation Valmai:-) and for the news of Frances. Must email her and see how she is.
fxx

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 03:36 AM

quote

"In simple terms, a triangle may give you a major chord or a minor chord"

But....

Depending on what key you are playing in (and this is what I mean about the basic 'Home Keys' of the McCann!), aren't some of those 'Minor Triads' just exactly the related ones you 'need' anyway?

unquote

What complete bollocks. I've been playing the triangle for years and have never had more than a single note out of it.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: captainbirdseye
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 12:13 PM

dear ralphie, you forgot to mentin the hayden duetyou canuse the same fingringfor four different keys c f bflat g,with ease.best wishes CaptainBirdseye.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 12:34 PM

Back to the original question: MorrisLoverJohn, what do you think at this point? Have you made any tentative decisions?

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 05:22 PM

Not all the duet chords are triangles - C major is a straight line. And F#maj7 is, errr hang on a mo...

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Alan Day
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 05:36 PM

A few more Ralphie to wet your whistle
Iris Bishop,Dave Cornell,Dave Barnert USA,Nick Robertshaw Now USA(X UK) ,Gavin Atkin and Stuart Estell.
I have a lot more to contact of course.
For those interested I will let you know more next year on this project and about end of August for English
(release about November ish)
I am sure you will be great Ralphie and I will pass your good wishes on to Jean.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 03:41 AM

Is Pam Bishop still around? she used to play duet in Birmingham in the 70s.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Blowzabella at work
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:41 AM

Hi Alan,

Great to hear you are thinking about including Tim Laycock. Do you have his contact details - I'm sure he will be amenable? If not, I can pass them on to you (I am a member, so can PM you, just not logged in at the moment!). On his 'Shillingstone Moss' recording he also did a wonderful tribute to Tommy Williams - have you heard it?

Blowz

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 07:50 AM

Booking has just opened for John Kirkpatrick's all-day Anglo concertina workshop at the Lewes Arms, Sussex, UK on Saturday 16th. September. John performs at the Lewes Arms Folk Club in the evening. Advance tickets are available at £6 each. The room only seats fifty, so this is a wonderful opportunity to hear John in an intimate setting.

Tootle pip,

Valmai

Lewes Arms Workshop No 66
JOHN KIRKPATRICK
ANGLO CONCERTINA WORKSHOP
Places £30
Saturday 16th. September 2006
10.45 a.m.- 4.45 p.m.
The Lewes Arms, Mount Place, Lewes,
East Sussex BN7 1YH

        John Kirkpatrick is a superb singer, great writer, fine dancer & the best English squeezer bar none. He is one of the great solo acts on the folk scene & has played with the Albions, Steeleye Span, Brass Monkey, Band of Hope & many more.
        
The workshop will be an intensive look at playing the Anglo concertina in the 'melody + chords' style, aimed at players with some experience. Using the simplest of tunes John will cover the three-chord trick in the 'home' key and then push on into chord patterns for as many other keys as time will allow.

IN THE EVENING JOHN KIRKPATRICK PERFORMS AT THE LEWES ARMS FOLK CLUB
(admission £6; advance tickets available from the address at end of this form)

JOHN KIRKPATRICK ANGLO CONCERTINA WORKSHOP
Saturday 16th. September 2006

Provisional Timetable
(Music will be sent out in advance)

10.45   Registration & coffee; order lunch

11.00         The 3-chord trick in the home key – playing the Anglo by memorizing patterns rather than learning notes.

12.30         Lunch

13.30        Chords in the next handiest keys & an approach to minor tunes.

15.00        Tea/coffee break

15.15 - 16.45        Going out to Mars on the Anglos – a masterclass session for problem tunes – summing up.

N.B. Booking is recommended as numbers are limited. Refreshments are not included.
Maps & accommodation lists will be sent in advance if requested.
Lewes Arms Folk Club
c/o 20, St. John's Terrace, LEWES,
East Sussex BN7 2DL
Tel. [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]
Website: http://members.aol.com/lewesarmsfolk/


JOHN KIRKPATRICK ANGLO CONCERTINA WORKSHOP
Saturday 16th. September 2006

BOOKING FORM
I would like to attend the workshop on 16th. September 2006
. I enclose a cheque for £30.00 (refreshments not included).

Name:

Address:



Telephone:
E-mail address:

No. of tickets for evening performance:
(£6 each; include SAE for these)

Tick for map:         
Tick for accommodation list:

Please make cheques payable to Lewes Arms Folk Club and send with this booking form to: Valmai Goodyear, 20, St. John's Terrace,
LEWES, East Sussex BN7 2DL
Tel. [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]
Website: http://members.aol.com/lewesarmsfolk/

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Uncle Jaque
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 09:36 AM

A couple of years ago my Wife gifted me an Anglo. It's not marked as to make, but I think that it's probably a Bastardi.
Not a bad little box to learn on, despite some "twanginess" in the lower notes that we could do without.

I read the book for about a half hour, ran some scales, then promptly began picking out tunes by ear. When I've got the Barbeque goin, I sit out on the porch and noodle around with it. Mostly sea chanteys and Celtic stuff, with a little Gospel and Civil War music just for good measure.

It's getting so I can pick out the melody of some tunes pretty well, but have to start working on chords next. Do the buttons running down parallell behind the front row of buttons have anything to do with chords? I can't seem to figure out what else they might be good for.

UJ's Concertina on Left - "Gilead" Walnut Flute in Center.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Alan Day
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:13 AM

Hallo Blowz, long time no see,his address or Email would be useful many thanks.
Uncle Jaque I cannot understand your button layout description Anglo buttons have two,three and rare four rows of buttons parrallel none seem to go down.If they are as I have described try to work out the notes on the push and on the pull and write them down.Go and buy a Guitar or piano chord book which gives each note of a chord and start introducing them in your playing.I do a free tutor for chord starting if you PM me with your address ,I will send you one.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:52 AM

Concertina.com has very clear fingering charts which you can enlarge to full screen or print off. Doesn't make you able to play in a day but at least it stops you making excuses like 'that button's moved since yesterday':

Anglo

English

Crane/Hayden/McCann

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Alan Day
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 09:02 AM

Countess, Good excuse if you are on stage and make a mistake though.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,Alan Day
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 10:05 AM

Just to let you know Blowz I followed up your information and Tim is on board.
Many thanks
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Blowzabella
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 12:12 PM

That's great news, Alan - and thanks for letting me know. I thought he would be - a very nice chap.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: captainbirdseye
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 11:44 AM

jOHN KIRKPATRICKis indeed a superb player and can be heard on BOXING CLEVER,along with harry Scurfield, Tim Laycock,Dick Miles, available from me. Dick Miles.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 06:15 AM

Right so I am a trad unaccompanied singer and play tunes many from what I sing or well known and I am getting to know the basic 2 rows on a G/D of a 3 row Anglo and I know my way left and right hand to the little finger!! on the right [this make sense]?

I have basic undrstanding of G and C and D and I find that playing the tune as well as singing is like nodding your head and rubbing your tummy at the same time ~

So I need chords!

Which chords do I need as a minimum on notes on the Anglo, anybody please?
Ray

No I dont play guitar and I have printed off full notes for the Anglo 3 row fingering

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: IanC
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 06:34 AM

Padgett

Keep on rubbing your head and patting your tummy. You'll get there.

:-)

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 06:43 AM

Basic (minimum) chords tutorial: (specially for padgett)

Assumed knowledge - Major Scales and what they are!

Firstly, we will be dealing with the Major scale only.

In each scale, number the notes from the start - write this down.
Example Key of C:
C D E F G A B C'
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

The 'basic chords' for each scale (for most 'folk music') are based on the notes numbered 1, 4, & 5, and are called the I, IV, & V chords.

A 'basic chord' in a scale involves the 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes of the sequence created by counting upwards from the start position of the chord 'base note' (NOTHING to do with Bass!) It may also optionally include the octave of the 'base note'.

Write these down under each Major Scale, C, G & D.

Example Key of C: (C' is the octave of C)
C D E F G A B C'
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

I
C E G (C')

IV
F A C' (F')

V
G B D (G')

The other scales are left as an exercise for the student! You will notice that some of the chords for one scale will repeat in another scale (but as another 'position').

Get these under your belt for starters - just a few at a time, preferably one scale at a time. It is possible to get most of the flavour of a particular chord by playing only any two notes of that chord, but there's a lot more to it than just that!

The next step is to notice that you can 'invert' these basic chords - what that means is that the 'starting note' or 'base note' of the chord is not the lowest pitched tone. Hence, logically, 1st inversion, 2nd inversion. Try finding these, if possible. This too is left as an exercise for the more advanced student!!

The V7 Chord.
You may often see a chord with this format eg, G7

While you can get most of the flavour of this chord by just playing the ordinary V chord - as the 7th note of the scale is most likely being played in the melody - this chord is built by adding the 7th note of the sequence.

G7
G B D F (the G' octave is usually omitted)

This differs from a normal G chord.

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 07:36 AM

Thank you kindly sir! I will try and understand this I have printed off (cut and paste)


Mr Foolestroupe thanks

Ray

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 06:39 PM

Back to the original question:

Kimber, Father Ken, John Kirkpatrick - what's the link? Cotswold Morris & Anglo (okay JK has bounced off to border now)

Scan Tester - Anglo dance music.

To me Anglo is the authentic "folk" concertina, but ultimately you need to decide for yourself which one is right for you by trying them out either at festivals or music shops - hobgoblin or music room.

You'll need D/G Anglo to play along with the melodeons for Morris and C/G to attend all the workshops. You can play C/G for morris (in G and D) but it is not so easy to accompany yourself and you are playing the instrument "inside-out".

Have fun!

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: concertina ceol
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 06:47 PM

that was me cookie expired :-(

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 07:32 PM

And this workshop on Saturday 8th. July is for all concertina systems:

Lewes Arms Workshop No 65
SANDRA KERR
All Systems
CONCERTINA WORKSHOP
Places £30
Saturday 8th. July 2006
10.45 a.m.- 4.45 p.m.
The Lewes Arms, Mount Place, Lewes,
East Sussex BN7 1YH UK
        
Sandra Kerr has long been a brilliant & influential singer & player of the English concertina. She specializes in the distinctive traditional tunes & playing styles of North-East England. Her singing ranges from the purely traditional to songs of social justice.

Sandra is one of the core teachers on the Newcastle University traditional music degree course & alongside this has a busy performance & workshop schedule. Her songwriting rates alongside the best in the UK, funny, acerbic & poignant by turns, & her musicianship has won many plaudits from national & international reviewers.
        
The workshop will concentrate on the Northumbrian repertoire (including 3/2 hornpipes, rants & slow airs) & aspects of style: playing with sensitivity, using ornamentation & chords. One section will also concentrate on song & tune accompaniment.
        
'She won't want us to go on about her long & distinguished career - but it is! A delightful performer & a great teacher & musician.' (Yorkshire Dales Workshops)

IN THE EVENING SANDRA KERR PERFORMS AT THE LEWES ARMS FOLK CLUB
(Admission £5: advance tickets from address at end of form)

Provisional Timetable

10.45         Registration & coffee; order lunch
        (Refreshments are not included.)

11.00        Airs: developing choice in touch & dynamics & the use of ornamentation.

13.00         Lunch

14.00         Hornpipes & rants - playing with lightness & energy.

15.30         Tea/coffee break

16.00 - 16.45        The concertina as an accompanying instrument - chords, countermelodies & crunchiness ...

Booking is essential as numbers are limited.
Maps & accommodation lists will be sent in advance.

BOOKING FORM
I would like to attend the workshop on 8th. July 2006. I enclose a cheque for £30.00 for workshop fees (refreshments not included).

Name:

Address:


Telephone:

E-mail address:

Concertina system:

No. of tickets for evening performance:
(£5 each, include SAE for these)
Tick for map:         
Tick for accommodation list:

Please make cheques payable to Lewes Arms Folk Club & send with this booking form to: Valmai Goodyear, 20, St. John's Terrace,
LEWES, East Sussex BN7 2DL
Tel. [phone]
e-mail:[e-mail]
Website: http://members.aol.com/lewesarmsfolk

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Chip2447
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 01:12 AM

My thanks to all for the wounnerful information found here. Especially to Foolestroupe. I too, am learning to play my concertina and being a rank/hack musician I found the whole chord thing wound up kicking me in the hindquarters. I have been enlightened...

Thanks...
Chip

Subject: RE: Concertina
From: Alan Day
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:09 PM

I suggest you also click onto Concertina.net where you will find written and download concertina music of all types and systems.
Like this site I am sure you will be made welcome.
If you go onto the site click onto my name and more free download MP3s are available.
Al