Community choirs and folk

Subject: Community choirs and folk
From: Saro
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 09:06 AM

Last night we had a concert in Winchester (UK) with about a hundred people from 3 community choirs, all singing Hampshire folk songs, as part of the celebration of George Gardiner's folk song collecting. Most of the singers and the audience members (the concert was sold out) were not "folkies" and probably have never been to a folk club or festival, but thoroughly enjoyed the music, and might now be persuaded to come to another and different type of folk event. I know a lot of community choirs don't do British (and especially not English) traditional music, though I'm never quite sure why. I'm interested to hear from any community choir members out there who are also interested in folk song, with a view to exchanging ideas and maybe some repertoire!
Best wishes
Sarah

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: My guru always said
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 09:10 AM

Good thoughts Saro, hope you have some success with this!

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 11:14 AM

Animaterra (of the Animaterra Women's Chorus) should chime in, I hope.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 01:13 PM

Saro
Its funny you should post on this topic.

I have The Market Rasen Junior Singers (who are on average 10/12 years old). They will be doing a 25 minute floorspot. They will be doing songs from John Conolly & Bill Meeks as well as a couple of sea shanties. So it will be interesting to see how that goes. All British songs.

I will keep you informed.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Kaleea
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 01:16 PM

Wow! Makes me wish I could cross the pond to go to a concert!

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 04:41 PM

Chiming in! My "community choir" is made up of women who choose to sing what we call "music of the world's traditions" rather than the usual choral repertoire. I'm a folkie through and through (though classically trained...) and have introduced my singers to everything from Coope, Boyes and Simpson to Balkan to African to Wild Mountain Thyme and back again! Most of them had never heard anything like the stuff we do, before they joined up.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: nutty
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 04:51 PM

I know that the SILSDEN SINGERS organised by Janet Russell has a very folkie repertoire.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 05:17 PM

Reading this thread I can't help but recall a phrase I once heard about "folk song in evening dress" (anyone remember where that came from?).
I've no basic objection to choirs performing folk songs (you'll be relieved to know!) but I, personally, don't find such communal performances terribly exciting or convincing (though I may admire the technical skills and musicality of those involved).
It seems to me that British folk songs - particularly English folk songs - are best performed as the old singers performed them - unaccompanied. This style of performance emphasises those two aspects of (English) traditional song that continues to make it exciting for me: melody and narrative - precisely those elements that can easily get lost in a choral arrangement/performance.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 12:14 PM

Here are some of the things I've learned from 15 years in a choir:

My church pulls together a choir at Christmas time and does a concert. We do traditional music, but only if a tune has been arranged into parts. One reason (the main reason, I suppose) is that it is very difficult for 30 - 40 people to sing in unison, keep in tune, and have a good blend. If we were all music professionals it might be different, but we are not.

In fact, our leaders tell us that singing in unison is one of the hardest thing to do. Also, few things seem to stir up emotions among the members as much as a beloved traditional song which has been "gussied up" the wrong way.

Meanwhile, our public will not keep coming to church (through the cold and over the ice) if we don't offer them something pretty unusual and sophisticated to listen to.

In opposition to that is the fact that listeners tend to enjoy what they already know.
----------------
Congratulations, Saro, on your successful event.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Saro
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 04:06 AM

Great to hear from all of you - here are some replies to individuals... Villan, I hope your junior choir thing goes well - and i have one or two arrangements I've done for childrens' choirs you might like to see or have a go at. Send me a PM if you're interested.
Guest DB, I entirely agree that very "choral" performance can lose the excitement of the original folk song, and we work very hard to make the arrangements (all unaccompanied by the way) reasonably robust - I think if you heard the roof raising version of Wild Rover (the great version collected by gardiner, not the very well known one) you might approve.
Animaterra, are you interested in swapping repertoire at all?
Best wishes to all and happy singing, whether in chours or not!
Sarah

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: GUEST,helper?
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 08:38 PM

There is a Community Choir in Whitby apparently.

Some members recently performed at a function / event at the Sage, Gateshead.

Just thought you (Saro) might like to know.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Ref
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 09:46 PM

Guest Leeneia, I think you've hit my biggest peeve on folk choirs, which is that folk music is rarely intended or appropriate for large groups. It's usually (Animaterra DOES do the fairly large group thing well) best done by small groups with a few traditional instruments. One of the least pleasing recordings I ever heard was The Weavers backed by a symphony. I'd love to be able to get my chamber chorus, or part of it, to do some real folk music, if arrangements were available. Unfortunately, most choral arrangements of folk music sound like elevator music or they're "cutesied" up beyond recognition. I have to satisfy my harmony jones with medieval music.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 01:29 AM

The Autumn 2006 issue of EDS/English Dance and Song, from EFDSS, (just arrived here across the pond & continent) has, as an item related to this issue's focus on Hampshire, an interesting article on community choirs. The Alton Community Choir is featured in an associated article. The Gardiner project (with which Sarah opened this thread) is described.

South Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Newcastle & Gateshead, Somerset, and Hampshire are highlighted as areas where there are community choirs that have a link with the wider folk scene. More details are given on:
- The Sheffield Fok Chorale (75 members, but a relatively traditional set-up, with conductor, performance costume, and occasional soloist)
- The Fishpond Choir (Matlock in Derbyshire) has a director who's from South Africa
- Sidmouth Festival Choir
- Werca's Folk, a women's choir based in Morpeth
- Voice Male, a men's group in the same area
- the Stanchester Quire
Several more are mentioned.

In the Alton feature, characteristics common to "many community choirs":
- no auditions
- many members don't read music
- recruitment by open invitation
- "both genders are encouraged to sing in whichever range suits their individual voices" for "a fuller and less formal sound"
- social aspects are important to the experience

And, aside from the choir news, the Alton article concludes by saying "The good news is that these four books [of folk songs collected by George Gardiner in the county in the years 1905 to 1908] are currently being re-edited by [Mudcatter] Malcolm Douglas, who did such a magnificent job with the EFDSS's Classic English Folk Songs (a re-publication of The Penguin Book of English Folk Songs)."

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Drumshanty
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 12:44 PM

Hi Sarah. There are two community folk choirs in the Edinburgh area. Sangstream is the one I am most familiar with. They do mostly Scots songs. Sangschule does a lot of Scots songs, but does others as well. I believe that several members of each group also sing with other community choirs, such as the Gilmerton Singers. And Yvonne Burgess has information about some more choirs and groups in this area. Hope you can use this info.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Cats
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 01:27 PM

It might be worth contacting Paul Wilson and Marilyn Tucker at the Wren Trust in Okehampton as they have run community choirs for years and have an extensive repetoire of songs.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 07:45 PM

Sarah
Try to get hold of some copies of LP's by Glasgow Orpheus Choir.
Hugh Roberton, their leader, did a marvellous job of putting various folk songs into part-music.
You may remember that Hugh Roberton wrote Mingulay Boat Song.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: GUEST,Scotus (minus cookie)
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 09:21 PM

Gordeanna McCulloch runs (or certainly ran) a womens' choir called Eurydice in Glasgow - a very gutsy sound indeed!

Jack

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 11:00 PM

Here in the States there are any number of community choruses that sing Sacred Harp, gospel, and other folk-related music. One of the best is the Potluck Singers, which I used to be a part of in the Mt. Washington Valley of New Hampshire. We had the best time - not only shape note, spirituals and the like, but also lots of rounds, folk songs (not ballads, mnind you), Balkan and other music in various languages, and anything else that happens to catch the fancy of the group members.

I miss it - and when I go back up to the area I try not to miss a chance to go sing with them. Such groups may use written music (though not always), but there is much of the folk tradition in them.

Dan Schatz

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: JennieG
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 03:48 AM

I belong to a small choir of about 12-14 members in Sydney, and our repertoire is mainly folk from different cultures. Our director is a woman who has been prominent in the local folk scene for a long time so knows and understands folk, and she does our arrangements. We also do a few 'doo-wop' songs from the 60s because they are such fun!

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 07:15 AM

Dan Schatz wrote: Here in the States there are any number of community choruses that sing Sacred Harp, gospel, and other folk-related music.

Let me add that here in North America many of our community choruses, such as the Solidarity Singers of New Jersey, or the Brooklyn Women's Chorus, or the Syracuse Community Chorus, come out of the political folk tradition, and therefore do many songs from the labor, socialist, civil rights, women's, LGBT, and peace movements. Some of these songs are traditional in the sense of being old and anonymous. But many more are songs whose authors we know, including older songs such as Bread and Roses and Solidarity Forever, and newer songs by such people as Pat Humphries, Holly Near, and Bev Grant.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 12:46 PM

The Loud Mouth Women in the Newcastle-under-Lyme and Stoke-on-Trent is one. The choir is jointly run by Mary Keith and Kate Barfield. Mary is not a specialist folkie, but Kate is lead singer with the hardcore traddy Boat Band, and tends to make the English input to the choir.

Subject: RE: Community choirs and folk
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 07:56 PM