BS: Why do Americans hate France?

Subject: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 05:27 AM

France was once the inspiration of Americans - the US flag took its colours from the Tricolour, the notions of freedom and democracy were taken directly from the French ideals.

So what is this strange hatred that has appeared out of nowhere? Is it because France is one of the few countries that stands up to the US, perhaps putting up an unflattering mirror to America's notions of itself?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 05:30 AM

Because not only did they not support the USA during the Gulf war, but they proved right. They said there were no WMDs- and there were none. They said invasion would only make things worse, and it did. They said things that were true but inconvenient, and no one forgives people who do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 05:43 AM

Oh hell.......I dunno'..............Why not?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: skipy
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 05:58 AM

As a Brit I hate them too!
Skipy
Cheese eating surrender monkeys!

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 05:58 AM

Hmmm... thanks for the tip, Paul. I'll never offer advice again!

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 08:52 AM

Howcome the leader of every european nation speaks english except France?

They can speak it but they never speak english to the public?

Arrogance. Go to Quebec and try to buy something with American dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 08:58 AM

Speaking your own language instead of someone else's is arrogant?

How do you figger that?

I'd suggest that demanding others to speak yours instead of theirs is more arrogant.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 08:58 AM

French cheese is the best in the world, but the Italians surrender better than the French do.   The French resistance was perhaps the bravest guerrilla organisation ever,

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 08:58 AM

In the first place, when you say Americans, that includes me, and I don't hate France. I don't hate any other country. That would be stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 09:05 AM

I agree with Kendall. But I've found Parisians to be, in general, arrogant. Not so those in the South -- lovely people.

And the US did not take the red-white-blue colors from France, but from England. The French flag in 1776 wasn't the tricolor, but blue with gold fleur-de-lis.

France supported the US during the Revolution primarily because doing so would be a way to get at England. We had a bit of a set-to with France around 1800, if my memory serves...England too.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 09:11 AM

If not for France and her navy during our revolution we might all be speaking English.

I don't understand what the French have to be so arrogant about. If not for the USA, the UK and Russia they would all be speaking German.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 09:15 AM

If refusing to speak English in public is not arrogance, what is speaking English in public called?

Putin, Arafat, Fox, Chavez, are they stupid or smart for speaking English?

It it is not arrogance what is it? Ever been to Quebec lately?

Yep were were buddy buddy with France once. Look at the Statue of Liberty. I don't know what happened. Do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 09:18 AM

Sure, their national interests were 180 degrees out from ours.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 09:26 AM

I don't hate France and I don't dislike French folks. The title of your thread is a gratuitous assertion that has no basis in fact.

I do dislike folks like the ones I met in Quebec once. They were speaking English when I walked in the door of the convenience store. I asked for directions, but they wouldn't answer me in English. Bear in mind that I heard them speaking English when I walked in the door. Folks like that are jerks. I went down the road a bit, walked in a gas station. The man that helped me spoke English, and as he and a friend were working out directions for me, they spoke French. Then he told me in English how to reach my destination. Lovely couple of folks there.

But that was Canada, not France. All the French folks that I have ever met were very cordial. As to Iraq, they were right.
Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Ringer
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 09:41 AM

More to the point, why do the French (and most other Europeans -- EU foreign-policy consists of no more than accepting neighbours as members and anti-Americanism) hate Americans?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: skipy
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 09:45 AM

Yes the little set was about 1800 but they had surrendered by 20 past 6 & we all had tiffin.
Skipy
The French resistance was perhaps the bravest guerrilla organisation ever, AGREE!

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 09:54 AM

The answer to BOTH question is that there are snobs and petty individuals on BOTH sides who tend to generalize and paint entire countries with the same broad brush.


What *I* wonder is why people ask such sweeping rhetorical questions?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 09:58 AM

Amen to that, BillD! Stupid question, ill-put. Plus a quick search shows we've already had a "slag-off on France" thread.

LOVE French films, in French with subtitles. Love my French-Canadian Rog and his family.

Kat LaFrance and proud of it!

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:01 AM

Of course citizens of the U.S. aren't the least arrogant.

Observe the behavior the majority of U.S. tourists in forign countries.

Enough to make you want to renounce U.S. citizenship.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Alba
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:02 AM

Odd assumption!

I, personally like France and her Culture very much. Then again I am a Scot who lived in France and now I live in America.

If some Americans feel that badly about France as you suggest JTT perhaps they should return the Statue of Liberty?

In the Cafeteria in the Senate the other day it was decided to stop calling French Fries.....Freedom Fries. Bloody stupid childish crap in the first place.
Guess someone woke up and smelt the Brie on Capitol Hill!! Now if they would just wake up and deal with the REAL issues!

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: GUEST,Bee
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:04 AM

Why do people recall the worst examples of Quebecois rudeness and ignore the fact that most of the people they are likely to encounter in Quebec are perfectly pleasant and accomodating? Quebecois people vacationing n the ROC undoubtedly experience similar levels of rudeness versus politeness from Anglophones - I've seen it and even intervened once or twice.

My neice recently spent two weeks in Montreal and Quebec City and had an altogether wonderful experience. I recall being in a rural Quebec corner store, with the owners and ourselves in gales of laughter over our mutual attempts to speak enough of each other's languages to make a purchase and get directions. These kind people came by our campsite later to make sure we made out alright.

Why does anyone anywhere profess to hate entire populations of 'others'?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:07 AM

What happened was, France - Aquitaine, the national petroleum company, had major contracts for the delivery of oil from Iraq.
Apparently the invasion kind of throug out those contracts and the oil was available for redirection.

S

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:14 AM

Blessed are the cheesemakers, ENGLAND makes the BEST cheese in the world, it is widely accepted that English cheddar is the best, Wensleydale very close, the French would eat shit if it had a sauce with it.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:16 AM

I'm an American who loves France and the French. I also LOVE Paris and her peeps.

I find that many tourists from ALL countries can be arrogant, usually out of defensiveness from feeling like fish out of water. Makes me wonder why they bother travelling at all, if they are so unhappy functioning outside their comfort zone.

Travelling to countries (or in the vast US, regions) other than your own means you have to work to figure out how to do things you take for granted when you are safely ensconced on your home turf. Culture, language or dialect differences, etc take some time to figure out.

That said, people who live in places that regularly draw a large number of tourists ought to be very tolerant of them, IMO. And patient and helpful too. No good reason why I believe that, of course. I just think it is better to represent yourself positively to outsiders, rather than negatively. Xenophobia is an ugly, ugly thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Scoville
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:21 AM

Oh, thank you, GUEST, whoever you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Alba
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:26 AM

....and Hate is a vile word imo which demands way to much energy to keep it's fire lit

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:37 AM

You are very welcome, Scoville.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:48 AM

Arrogance. Go to Quebec and try to buy something with American dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:51 AM

"Arrogance. Go to Quebec and try to buy something with American dollars."

Old Guy, to complete that thought, got to any province in Canada and try to buy something with American dollars. American currency is not legal tender in Canada, expecting it to be treated as such is arrogant.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:59 AM

I just thought that was a definition of the word 'arrogance'. But while you are at it you might try going in an English pub and paying with a Scottish banknote!

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 11:16 AM

I hope you read my post thoroughly, Bee. I made it quite clear that I experienced both sides in Quebec. To make clear the point, I have met wonderful folks there. I make music with some of them. They are like anywhere else. Got some bad eggs, but by and large wonderful folks.

My post began by saying the title is a gratuitous assertion. Let me put it another way. It is a troll.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 11:23 AM

I don't know if it is legal tender or not but everywhere else they were glad to get a dollar redeemable that was worth more than their dollars.

"US currency is widely accepted anywhere in Canada with no trouble"

www.vancouver.hm/money.html

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 11:54 AM

And people wonder why the Americans are seen as cultural imperialists?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Richard Brandenburg
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 11:56 AM

"Why do Americans hate France?"

This non-question is a conceptual pileup of received notions and media rhetoric; a sort of "question" that would be put by a representative of a shallow nationalistic agenda on a talk-radio program. The "answer" is then played out in reactive squabbling.

Time for a commercial break.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 11:56 AM

Agreed, Big Mick. It is a troll. Making a generalisation like that is inaccurate and deliberately provocative.

I felt I had to say something here, particularly because right now I have my brother and his delightful French family visiting here. He left Oz in 1973 and makes his living in Paris as a musician - His wife is part of the group, and a lovelier person you could not hope to meet. I've been over there three times and spent quite a lot of time mixing with the locals, and it's all been positive. Love the place and love the people. If they told me tomorrow I couldn't live in Sydney any more, my next choice would be France - Paris in particular. My French is rather shaky, but I try, and people respect that. I have found everyone I have met extremely friendly and helpful.

We've all seen the loud obnoxious tourists who expect their hosts to be the ones to adapt to them. I suspect that many of those who have negative experiences when travelling cause those situations with their own ignorant and arrogant attitudes.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:06 PM

Here's another: Why does EVERYBODY hate negative generalizations?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:21 PM

Old Guy, some merchants in Canada, particularly those close to the American border will perform the service of a bank and exchange US currency as a courtesy to tourists. A few merchants in the US, close to the border, will even accept Canadian money at par at times, in an effort to induce cross border shopping....a loss leader so to speak. However, that does not change the fact that American currency is still not legal tender in this country.

Canadian money is not legal tender in the US. Try paying for goods with Canadian money beyond 50 miles inside the US border and imagine how "arrogant" a US merchant will become. LOL

We are polite to US tourists to a point, as we expect a few to be ignorant or lazy about exchanging their currency at a bank before entering the country. We also expect a very few to be downright beligerant and react accordingly. You pays yer money and you takes yer chances.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:27 PM

LOL, Amos!

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:33 PM

Why do dachshunds hate raw onions?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:34 PM

Richard Bridge, you crack me up man..........You state totally subjective and unsubstantiated opinions as if they are FACT. The wonderful thing is that in most cases you do it with such supreme aplomb and confidence that no one seems to object........LMAO on a regular basis. I look for your posts as they continually give me large smiles and chuckles...even the occasional guffaw.

"French cheese is the best in the world".........yeah, right......LOL........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:38 PM

You DARE to question the unrivalled supremacy of French cheeses, Spaw?????

Sacre bleu!

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:44 PM

Spaw, once again you beat me to it. This guy responds to a thread about broad generalizations with a broad generalization. How's this for one, Richard? If you think we are cultural imperialists, your own Helen Kirwen-Taylor this morning made the comment that Brits are all trying to copy Americans. If you all disdain our culture so much, why are you all working so hard to copy it???

Amos ...... I shouldn't have to warn you about "empty mouth before reading" rule. Really man, you are perpetuating the "ignorant American" stereotype.

Spaw ..... I have to go lay down.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:45 PM

Sacre bleu - don't think I've had that one, but I'm not too keen on blue cheeses anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:59 PM

If it's name is Sacre is it a bit like gruyere - a holy cheese? I don't think I could eat a hole one.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 01:03 PM

Les, do want me to come over there and slap you around some?

LMAO..........Now STOP IT !!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 01:09 PM

You'll not stop him, 'Spaw...mocking the French is a hobby only 2nd to mocking Lancastrians with Les.

It will be excuciating puns all evening now...

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 01:23 PM

About fifty years ago, a subsequently well-known—and all too often, appropriate—phrase came into existence. It was a book title:   The Ugly American. The book had to do with American foreign policy. But it was quickly applied to a lot of American tourists who behaved in the kind of thoughtless and arrogant manner that Old Guy seems to espouse:   when traveling in other countries, expecting clerks and waiters to speak English, and if they don't understand when you speak to them, you just talk louder, and when they still don't understand, you treat them like children or idiots;   expecting them to take American money instead of being properly prepared by exchanging the currency yourself (a restaurant is not a bank);   such things as asking for a bottle of ketchup in a four-star restaurant in Paris;   and generally pissing, moaning, and bitching when things are not the same and people have customs different from those back home in Schenectady. Of course not! If you wanted things to be the same as they are at home, then why did you go there? You should have bloody well stayed home and not inflicted yourself on the citizens of other countries.

Rick Steves, the travel writer, has his own television show on PBS channels and a weekly radio program on NPR. He says a great deal about getting the best out of one's travels, and two of his major principles are 1) "Go there for a new experience and to learn. Become a "temporary local'";   and 2) "If things don't meet your expectations, change your expectations."

Some quotes from the above linked site:

           "I would like travelers, especially American travelers, to travel in a way that broadens their perspective, because I think Americans tend to be some of the most ethnocentric people on the planet. It's not just Americans, it's the big countries. It's the biggest countries that tend to be ethnocentric or ugly. There are ugly Russians, ugly Germans, ugly Japanese and ugly Americans. You don't find ugly Belgians or ugly Bulgarians, they're just too small to think the world is their norm."
           "We can travel in a way that exacerbates the problems between us and the rest of the world, or in a way that connects us with the rest of the world. I do not want to encourage and enable Americans to travel in a way that makes the problem worse, and a lot of people do travel in a way that makes the problem worse. My travelers, I think — I'd like to think — travel in a way that connects them with the rest of the world and when they come home they are changed Americans. They are more likely to understand what the family of nations is all about."
           "Travel, like the world, is a series of hills and valleys. If something's not to your liking, change your liking. Travel is addicting. It can make you a happier American, as well as a citizen of the world. Our Earth is home to nearly six billion equally important people. It's humbling to travel and find that people don't envy Americans. They like us, but with all due respect, they wouldn't trade passports."
           "It's never too late to have a happy childhood, and age only matters if you're a cheese."

An ancient Greek once said to a young man who claimed to be well educated, "As to your education, don't tell me where you took your schooling; tell me where you have traveled."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 01:25 PM

Why do Americans hate the French?
...because they think the French hate Americans.

This perception cf animosity is probably the basis of most international misunderstanding.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: GUEST,Bee
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 01:26 PM

Sorry, Mick. I could just see people, as they do, skipping over the positive remarks and saying, "yeah, Francophone snobs, they all speak English, just don't to be rude". But I understand your point, of course - people are rude or not everywhere on the planet, depending presumably on how their parents brought 'em up.

And to the comments on American money in Canada, adequately addressed by others, but may I add that even most Banks in US cities won't take Canadian money, as I found when visiting Boston a few years back. You have to find one that does foriegn exchange.

Bostonians, OTOH, were wonderful, friendly, generous. Total strangers in Irish and Welsh themed bars bought me beers and invited me to musical events (mind you, while giggling at my 'r' pronouncing Maritime accent).

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate France?
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 01:53 PM

I spend a fair amount of time in Toronto. I am amazed at Americans that expect to use US currency instead of Canadian. I must say that I haven't seen that in the States.

I am reminded of the time I went to the Guinness Fleadh. It was the first year it was in the States, held on Randall's Island, NYC. A young friend really wanted to go, and I told him that I had a room already, and a car, if he wanted to go he was welcome to share my accomodations, all he had to worry about was airfare and entry. As we were getting off the plane at LaGuardia and walking out to catch a shuttle to the car rental, he asked me if NYC'ers were as rude as he had heard. I told him that there weren't any different than folks anywhere else. As we are standing at the curb, I asked a fella for a light for my cig. He said, "Do I look like I have a fucking light????" My young friend, who had asked his questions not more than a minute earlier, raised his eyebrows. The next day, while we are standing in line for a Guinness at the Fleadh, we are laughing about this, and a guy in front of us turns around and says, "People like this give our city a bad name, let me buy your Guinness. I'm sorry this happened to you, and I hope you don't think that's what we are like here".

Another true story. Generalizations just don't hold water.

Mick