Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 04:31 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just enjoyed the music, friendship and sharing of music and skills and songs.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Old Git
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 01:58 PM

GUEST ...I wonder if that was the same accordion player who appeared at the beginning of this thread?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Bert
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:56 PM

"youth hostile" - LOL Squeaks.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:23 AM

Because that would have been even ruder....

Besides, it was time for the raffle...

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 01:46 AM

"A 4hour session fell apart in about 15 minutes."

Why did no one ask them to bugger off?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 07:45 PM

Hi Jack, yes, you do know me, and yes, it was Iain Grant. See also washboard thread: I think I'll print off your instructions and buy a few more thimbles!
(apologies to the rest as this is off thread!)

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 01:34 PM

There are no right words to the Wild Rover, unless you count Das Wild Dachshund (Doug Hudson).

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 05:24 AM

I'll take the Fifth... some of those people still lurk!

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 05:17 AM

Go on Liz - name names. Let us all know just who these scoundrel dirty dogs are.

i don't know.. they come on here - telling us the right words to the Wild Rover - pretending they know which way Ewan MacColl had his knob hanging - why Rambling Jack Elliot rubs porridge into his guitar, and all the time they go round sabotaging folk music, and acting like clever dicks.

we need less of that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 04:42 AM

Ah Guest.... I know that well...

Once spent a fantastic afternoon with a group of people in a youth hostile. We'd tried to get into a pub session but the room was too small so we retired to the hostile for an afternoon of singing, joking, drinking, tea making and noodling. There was no real structure, people jumped in with a song they felt was appropriate to the conversation or if a previous song suggested it; everyone got a turn if they wanted, no-one chattered through singers; new songs were sung, old songs were stolen from others, old jokes were revived and new jokes made... It was going really well until the other lot who had been able to get into the session returned from the pub. Suddenly someone was organising us into strict order, telling us when we could sing and then talking through the singers. A 4hour session fell apart in about 15 minutes.

AND EVERY PERSON IN THAT ROOM WAS A MUDCATTER!

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 06:43 AM

The best session I ever played in was at Beverley Festival many years ago. Many of the musicians were well-known names, many were guests at the festival, and the standard of playing was high but not too competitive - no one had anything to prove. People were playing unusual tunes as well as the old favourites, and others were picking up on them and playing interesting counter-melodies, rythms etc. The mood was laid back and mellow.

By the end of the afternoon the session was beginning to dwindle but still had "legs". Then a large fat bearded piano-accordion player walked in, announced in a loud voice that the session needed livening up a bit, and began blasting out tunes we'd already played, badly. Within minutes everyone else had packed up and left.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 04:30 AM

"I sing unaccompanied, and if someone starts to play, I sit down.
End of story." (Jo-Jo)


The flip side of this - with some people the band would be striking up before the first chorus.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Red and White Rabbit
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 04:26 AM

folkraver

I understand what you mean about the folk maffia if you are nervous or shy - it took me a long time to summon up the courage to sing amongst all these people that seemed to know each other( I know now you cant shut me up) but if you want to sing the singarounds I go to are full of the most supportive people I have met both for singers and personally in other areas of my life and whats more if you keep going to the same spots its wonderful to see how nervous people improve as they over come their shyness.

Old Git once said to me the folk world is like a big family and he was right - you cant get on with everyone and all have different temperament,styles and ways of doing things but in the main they will support you.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Carol
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 03:48 AM

Well said there Les - I go to lots of singarounds, well I don't go to concerts and very rarely to guests at folk clubs and I think people in singarounds are very supportive of 'new' singers, nervous singers and quiet voices, plus it's the only place where the 'I wrote this last night brigade' can try out their songs!! As you can guess sometimes I think we are too supportive, yes I'll listen the the later type but will only applaud if the song was OK or better and boy have I heard some dire self-written songs over the years! Happy people don't seem to want to write them!!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:56 PM

Mafia? In my experience lots of singaround singers know each other and are old friends. How does that make them a Mafia?

Everyone of those people sang for the first time in front of other people, and we (mostly) remember that. And, in my experience, they are very welcoming of new talent. All the singaround organisers I know are very fair about giving each person a chance to sing, but in a large singaround it can take 2 hours or more to get round. Perhaps you are not waiting long enough.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,folkraver
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:33 PM

why is it that nearly every festival i go to there is a singaround mafia everyone seems to know everyone else which for nervous singers can be very offputting.Or even worse the singaround is so formal that it becomes stilted.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Partridge
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:28 PM

I used to go to a folk club where the organiser talked over the singers that were beginners. I stopped going. I wonder how many people she turned off. She certainly put me off, even now I find it really difficult to sing alone.

Pat x

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:33 AM

If anyone poured beer into my guitar, I'd be most annoyed at such an antisocial act, given today's extortionate beer prices.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:29 AM

...we'd pour your beer into your guitar. As you said, a splendid idea.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Strummer
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:26 AM

"I sing unaccompanied, and if someone starts to play, I sit down.
End of story." (Jo-Jo)

What a splendid idea! - I wish that (some) 'singers' would follow your example! I'd just have to start strumming along, and ........

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:04 AM

Regarding the people who waste time deciding what to sing/play when it's their turn, I've only been guilty of that myself sometimes when I get asked to accompany others, so when it's my turn, I haven't had a chance to think what to do next myself. This especially tends to happen when there aren't many people there so I've already 'used up' the songs I'd planned to do that evening. But I probably only spend a few seconds deciding, and usually plump for one of my old stand-by songs.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:44 AM

Well, I have not had time to read ALL of this thread, but if it has not been said, the most important factor is :



      UNACCOMPANIED MEANS   UNACCOMPANIED.


I sing unaccompanied, and if someone starts to play, I sit down.
End of story.

the ONLY time a musician should "help out" is if s/he is ACTUALLY ASKED TO DO SO

Jo-Jo

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:35 AM

I guess the moothie player Tattie Bogle mentioned was Iain Grant?

In which case I probably know Tattie Bogle.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,GrahamP
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:49 AM

Sooz says, '...What makes me cringe are the singers who have to spend five minutes deciding what to sing even when it was clear when their turn was approaching!...'

I quite agree - it may not be "the worst singaround/session rudeness ever" but it certainly pisses me off. What is perhaps surprising is that the culprits are often seasoned participants in what John J charmingly calls the 'Circle of Death'!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,KT
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:32 AM

The Gong Show. That's what we need. Somebody who comes on and sounds a dinner gong when the performer's allotted time is up. Or somebody with a long pole with a hook on the end to haul the performer off.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Sooz
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:36 AM

Hmm.. not so easy if they are the club chairman or his girlfriend!

BTW Bert did those Bramley seeds grow?

I haven't had the chance to plant them yet, been moving around too much. As soon as I get settled in one place I'll give them a try they should still be viable for a few years yet.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Bert
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:35 AM

Sooz says, ...What makes me cringe are the singers who have to spend five minutes deciding what to sing even when it was clear when their turn was approaching!...

The answer to that is to give them five minutes and cut them off when their time is up.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 11:12 AM

I thought Darts were quite a good band. Some good harmonies anyway...

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 11:04 AM

From: melodeon king
Reading this thread, I think I'll take up darts.

Yes, could be a good way to deal with those unwanted accompanists.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,John of Elsie`s band
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 09:27 AM

I recall one night in Elsie`s when one of our regular performers sang one of his songs in his usual entertaining ,un-accompanied fashion. A musician struck up an un-invited accompaniment. The singer continued and finished his piece without a hitch and then addressed the errant musician saying " You won`t be doing that again , will you??".

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 08:46 AM

rather than setting phasers to stun would it not be more apt to set faces to stunned?

(Not mine but extra points for saying where I pinched it from.)

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 07:57 AM

Oh please not Simon Cowell! I was thinking more along the lines of Bones of the Starship Enterprise with his phaser on STUN.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 07:40 AM

Woodsie, there are only two bleeding verses and even DK can remember them, what to you expect us to do, encode the words onto an acid molecule?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 07:17 AM

That's the trouble with us WLD - We are too nice. That's why we often get such crap;-) We need a Simon Cowell character at our singarounds. Any volunteers?

Cheers

DtG

PS - I have been honest with one or two people who I knew wouldn't mind. Others would not thank me!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: woodsie
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 06:09 AM

How can you have folk club (TB) without a stage and then provide poxy walker's cheese & onion square crisps and expect me to eat them whilst attempting to read the words to "ride on" by bleedin' candlight. And I didn't get to sit next to Bill Gardner or win the raffle!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: melodeon king
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:56 AM

Reading this thread, I think I'll take up darts.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 04:12 AM

Not showed my bum (intentionally) but have flashed other parts..... the song called for it and it was done tastefully and artistically...

Oh... and I took my dress off during a song once.... but it was one I was singing so I guess that doesn't count.

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 07:02 PM

So, you've all been quite well behaved so far.

Nobody's ever said - that's what I think of you all and your rotten music, and then showed their bum....

no one has said, bloody hell mate - you were shit!

no one's said, are you under medication for being tone bloody deaf?

no ones ever broken down in desperation screaming, is there an end to this piece of music - its like the Japanese water torture!

10 out of ten for politeness folkies! In fact a bonus one for being really nice!
None out of ten for honesty.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Dave Earl
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 04:27 PM

"if we get oversubscribed is to drop the residents."

Yes that is also a responsible thing to do if you are having a singers night or whatever at your weekly (or however regular) club.

I am quite willing to do that if the situation arises at the club where | am a resident.

Dave

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 06:35 AM

LTS
even worse is to get that when you've written the words AND tune yourself or have been given them by the writer

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 05:15 AM

"One guy said that's not how that song goes!" (I corrected your punctuation)... : )

Oh Kendall - How often have I heard that in singarounds....? worst of all, was the chap who said it to me about a song I'd written to an old tune! He heard the first line, recognised the tune and promptly sang loudly (and badly) the original version all the way through. I do believe I interrupted him and asked him to do me the courtesy of actually listening to what I was singing before joining in.

As for reading the words - as discussed elsewhere on this forum - some people can remember things. I can't. I can remember the tune or the words, not both. The book is there as a standby and I'm not the only one who uses a 'comfort book'... as someone above said - if Martin Carthy can do it, so can us lesser mortals!

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 04:35 AM

Oh - The other alternative we always take first if we get oversubscribed is to drop the residents. After that we ask some of the more reasonable regulars if they would mind ducking out. Last choice is to tell people they were too late - Sorry, should have explained that.

DtG

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 04:30 AM

Ours is always a compered singaround so the compere can keep control. We had 15 singers on Monday - ran from 9 till 11:45 with a 10 minute break around 10:30. Most people did 2. 3 or 4 did 1. The last guy did 3 but his 3rd was after I had officialy closed the club.

We had about 8 or 9 singers in by 9pm. The rest had arrived by 9:30. If any more had come in after that I would have to seriously consider explaining to them that they were too late to get on.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 04:17 AM

but agree with both DtG and BC that announcing how you're running the session is important.

I suppose for one off sessions (eg. a festival) or if starting up a new event, yes but for regular sessions, I'd hate to see the "rules" gone through each time a new person turned up. IMO, it's up to them to ask and or feel their way.

I would guess "compered" singaround could be different to a session on this.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Brazilian
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 04:04 AM

Having read this thread and seen some of this happening at Whitby last week, I can't help thinking that whereas you tend to think of folk enthusiasts as intelligent and educated people, that definition itself does not necessarily imply that they posess social skills and the general ability to interact in what may be termed an "adult" manner with their fellow man. This thread seems to reinforce that line of thought. I wonder how it all worked in the pre-folk revival days of traditional singers and musicians? "Walter Pardon? - Right, you've got 5 minutes" "Scan Tester? Did you play an A#major then instead of a F#dim3??!!?, what do you think you're doing??" Somehow I think not.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Sooz
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 03:00 AM

Twelve songs an hour is about right and I don't worry about long introductions. What makes me cringe are the singers who have to spend five minutes deciding what to sing even when it was clear when their turn was approaching! (Not exactly rude but rather inconsiderate!)

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Dave Earl
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 02:39 AM

Yes Kitty,

Generally speaking I think that, allowing for variations in length of songs,introductions,parish notices and so on, something like a dozen songs an hour would be about right.And I prefer to see "one singer = one song" and duos and trios = two songs (unless they are really wonderfull but then you are approaching what could be seen as an extended "showcase" type spot.

Of course the whole idea is a bit of a minefield if you haven't sorted out your policy before you start.

However in the Middle Bar we work to 14/15 songs per hour - cos we fine 'em for long intros.

BTW Kitty see you at The Wail!!!

Dave

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 06:03 PM

I was replying to Dave the gnome, not Breton Cap (but agree with both DtG and BC that announcing how you're running the session is important. It didn't save Jude from being unjustly accused of running her T&S session unfairly though.)

Kitty

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 05:59 PM

Dave - running a singaround as you suggest means that only 12 singers will get to sing in 2 hours, or 18 in 3 hours. Most of the singarounds I'm involved in have a lot more than 12 singers! And the singers generally outnumber the audience.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Dave Earl
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 05:55 PM

"Just lay down the ground rules at the offset and maintain them. ".

Absolutely but you have to have an agreed policy for people arriving after the outset. Again there are a number of things that could be done and all of them work to a greater or lesser extent.

As long as everybody understands how your sing/session is run problems should be minimal.

dave