Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 05:49 PM

I must say that the 'reserved for muicians' at the tap and spile is very offputting for us humble singers - I saw then earlier this year when the festival was not on. It was not even true because the seats were taken up by performers and their non-performing partners as well while us poor people waiting to get a chance to sing could not even get in:-( But it is their style so I know better than to go there in the future.

It is not really rocket science to run a singaround. I did last night at the Manchester mudgather. Allow all the singers 10 minutes each. OK - We didn't finish till 11:45 last night but it could equaly have finished at 10:30 - In which case I would have started again. Just lay down the ground rules at the offset and maintain them. Easy.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 04:49 PM

Brazilian

I heard that Sheree (the landlady) at the Tap and Spile was disappointed by the poor quality of the "music" coming from the reserved seats on at least one evening. The family room singaround was consistently good but space very limited and likewise the non-smoking snug.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 04:25 PM

By the way, I wasn't trying to excuse the behaviour of the rude people whose rudeness started this thread, but I was trying to explain that this pub during Folk Week has sessions that tend to be instrumental and rowdy. It's not an organised session. It's just who happens to be in the pub. And if nobody imposes some sort of order the weak go to the wall. Members of the public, who probably outnumber singers and players, seem to prefer this louder and faster music, and Maggie and I have to limit our output somewhat to accomodate them. But while we were there on a later night, as I said, we attempted to moderate it (with the grateful help of Gary from Sheffield who we'd just met). We know that this was appreciated by the landlords, Barrie and Mike.

I'd love to think that I could do any sort of thing but sometimes for unaccompanied song you just have to go somewhere else where you'll be more appreciated, like the front room of the Tap 'n' Spile, where you could do anything and people will listen.

And Genie, I once found myself in a bluegrass session. This was a regular session in a pub we were just using in the afternoon. When the bluegrass players came in we joined in their stuff, they accomodated us, even to the extent of giving me the nod to take solo breaks (on melodeon - that well-known bluegrass instrument!). Everybody seemed happy because no one was treading on anyone's toes.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 03:52 PM

Jim, from a pro that is unforgivable. Martin Carthy always (as far as I know) listens to the floorspots and support bands at his gigs and tries to find a nice word for them. I cherish the "Good song, is it yours?" we earned. If he can have manners, lesser mortals certainly can.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Genie
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 03:28 PM

Oh, and this may not be the worst kind of rudeness, but I do consider it kind of rude to get up and leave a song circle the minute you've had your last turn 'at bat'.

Sure, sometimes you have a legitimate reason for leaving, and if you're the last one to get a turn in a large group, I can see holding out till you've had a chance to do your song.

But a lot of people do this routinely, at open mics, song circles, singarounds, jams, etc.   And this rudeness is at its worst when X, who's the informal leader du jour, has already had a couple of turns, while latecomers have either had none or maybe one, and X does his 3rd song and not only leaves but says, "Hey, it's late. Why don't we call it a night?" right before it's one of the latecomers' turn.

That sort of thing happens way too often, in my experience.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Genie
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 03:21 PM

Les, I find that different groups have different rules (officially acknowledged or otherwise). One song circle I attend is dominated by singers, many of whom sing or lead songs a cappella. In that group, people seem to understand that you need to be very sensitive to the nonverbal cues in deciding whether to play along or not. (If the song leader is using an instrument, some of the others often do play along.) But, with or without instruments, the goal -- though not always accomplished well -- is to follow whoever is leading the song. And if someone chooses to do a solo, a cappella or not, people honor that.

In other groups, it's the norm for songs to be accompanied by the instrumentalists and for the group to sing along, unless someone specifies otherwise.   Usually people don't ask, "Do you want us to play (sing) along?" if it's a song others know. It's not the norm in that group.

I think it's a courtesy for newcomers to get the feel of a group and its norms (or ask about them) before diving in, based on assumptions.   E.g., one jam session I attend sometimes is primarily bluegrass, fiddle tunes, and classic country/folk (e.g., Hank Williams, Woody Guthrie). Some of the regular jammers can break into a jazz version of "Humoresque" toward the end of a session with impunity, but as an occasional drop-in, I'm hesitant to venture far from the "genre" boundaries.   

Trying to "take over" someone else's song is rude in ANY setting.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 03:01 PM

Worst manners -
We were sitting behind a veteran Folkie 'star'from NE England in a London Club where a young woman singer from the Aran Islands was a guest.
Out of consideration she gave a very brief descripting of her Irish language songs, during which out Geordie friend talked loudly and deliberately. When asked to shut up he replied 'I came here to listen to f******* songs, not talk; I thought we'd got rid of this s*** thirty years ago.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Carol
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 01:21 PM

Thanks TB but it's a long way to come for a night out, I met a gentleman at the Durham Folk Party who lives near Edinburgh and manages to go out singing every night of the week - lucky devil!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 12:40 PM

The rule should always be don't provide accompaniment to an unaccompanied singer unless it's asked for. And then agree a key with the singer beforehand and let the singer set the pace. I accompany myself on bouzouki or melodeon, so why would someone assume that they should use an instrument if I'm singing unaccompanied?

Many so-called accompanists are not up to the job anyway. If they can only thrash out three chords, or play the tune that the singer is singing then they should shut up, and it would help if others in the session gently pointed that out to them. Most people are quite amenable if approached in the right way. I tend to only join in with friends I've played with before, or with stuff I know well enough. If Maggie or I don't mind a bit of extra accompaniment we'll say something like 'this one's in D'.

The original 'rudeness' took that started this thread took place in the Endeavour in Whitby. This is not an organised session, but of the type we usually call a 'dive-in' session, in which there is no organiser and the next performer 'dives-in' when the last song/tune is finished. It's often a noisy pub with lots of instruments and people wanting to thrash out quite noisy stuff. We spent a night in there (Monday?) and ended up sort of running it, going round the room and trying to give everyone a chance, which is the only way really if there are unaccompanied singers wanting to do a nice quiet song.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 11:38 AM

A flat or G #? my little joke! Easier to read the former if you read music!
I live near Edinburgh: the session I mentioned is not too far away!
TB

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 11:33 AM

Well done, Richard.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 11:27 AM

Technically to the really pure in heart Ab is not G#, but in the equal temperament scale they are.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Brazilian
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 10:27 AM

We were round the pubs in Whitby during the evening and heard disappointingly little quality playing. The Elsinore seemed to be about the best but the Tap and Spile.....some of our group were laughing at the "These Tables are Reserved for Musicians" notices, wondering where they would sit if they ever turned up......

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 10:11 AM

The key is Ab not G#.

Technically speaking this is not true. Either is correct, but your observation is the most generally used.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 09:29 AM

I once had a girlfriend who I brought along to a session. She'd been to sessions before quite happily. This time she got into a strop for some reason, went to the railway station next door, bought a paperback book, came back, sat back down in the session and started reading it. And she made me take her shopping the next day.

The word I'm looking for is 'ex'....

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: r.padgett
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 07:48 AM

Completing crosswords whilst waiting for your turn ~ you know who you are!


Reading the newspaper whilst waiting for a song ~ ditto

Early singarounds had big lads to ensure fairplay ( Booker for example) and odd quip, 'We'll all come and talk at your bed side whilst your performing'

Ray

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST, London Danny
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 07:08 AM

Session rudeness...
Our traditionally excellent MC has over recent months acquired a mobile phone/organiser type gizmo and while it doesn't ring or flash lights, detracts his attention from the singers for much of the evening. I'm not sure if he realises the effect of this, but he may as well be reading a book!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Dave Earl
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 06:17 AM

"Oh to find out where Tattie Bogle lives - this is the only equitable way to run a singaround - good on you"


I happen to know the general area in which TB lives but I'd better let her tell you if that's what she wants to do.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: melodeon king
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 06:01 AM

The key is Ab not G#. I don't see why it is a problem for anythimg other than a melodeon. The clever dick who said "try putting a capo on a flute" need head examined. You can quite easily play any key on a flute. It's us poor melodeon men that suffer every time! All songs/tunes should be in G by law.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Carol
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 04:06 AM

'As for people who "jump in": it wouldn't work at one of the sessions I go to. It is done in strict rotation round the room for those there at the start: anyone who arrives late, gets their name added to the bottom of the list by the session chairperson, so doesn't matter where they are sitting, they will still be last! Anyone trying to go out of turn will be deprived of the right to take a turn for the rest of the evening.'
Oh to find out where Tattie Bogle lives - this is the only equitable way to run a singaround - good on you

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Genie
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 10:32 PM

Well, I think Joe Offer has been known to sing in the key of "R."   Just to thow folks off, I guess. ;-D

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 08:44 PM

Some years ago at Rochester Sweeps I was at an advertised and well-run singaround, when a group of musicians entered the room and tried to join in/take over
When it came to my turn I announced to song as "The Wild Geese", words by Mal Waite, tune Planxty Irwin.
I suggested that if the musicians might like to join in, the key would be J# minor!
The musicians immediately packed up and left.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Bert
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 08:41 PM

A few years ago at "The Gathering" a few of us found an empty hall and started a circle. After we had been around a couple of times, another event ended and quite a few folks came in and joined us.

We moved our chairs apart to welcome them into the circle. Then some ill mannered oaf just took over the circle and started asking people to sing out of turn and completely ignoring the original members of the circle. Eventually we just left.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 08:40 PM

One of the rudest things (musically speaking) that happened to me was when I was singing a song (accompanying myself on guitar) at a pace I like for that particular song: a young woman opposite had obviously only ever known the disco version and started pounding fiendishly with her foot on a wooden floor to try to make me go about twice as fast. I know what I should have done, but in those days was fairly new to the session scene, so didn't do much other than give her the "daggers" stare, which made no difference!
As for people who "jump in": it wouldn't work at one of the sessions I go to. It is done in strict rotation round the room for those there at the start: anyone who arrives late, gets their name added to the bottom of the list by the session chairperson, so doesn't matter where they are sitting, they will still be last! Anyone trying to go out of turn will be deprived of the right to take a turn for the rest of the evening.
As for G# (or even A flat), I'm reminded of a former moothie player (sadly no longer with us) who played in many keys, but would shake his head and say, "Och, they're in one of they shitey keys again".

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Genie
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 05:09 PM

Little Hawk said: "This seems to be mainly a U.K. problem, judging by the posts."

Well, here on the west coast of the US, I participate in several different "jam sessions" and "song circles" ("singaround" doesn't seem to be a term used in these parts). In jam sessions, it's expected that people will play and/or sing along -- even taking turns with instrumental breaks, if they like.   In those, it's not uncommon for the fiddle players, e.g., to request a more fiddle-friendly key than, say, A-flat.   But they generally do that before you start playing.
"Song circles" are generally called that because you sit in a circle (as opposed to having someone on stage. In one mode, people take turns either performing a song, leading one, or requesting one. Leading songs is common, and people tend to assume it's OK to do instrumental backup, in addition to singing along, unless asked not to.   But it's usually also understood that you don't drown out the singer or throw them off with your rhythm, etc.   So it's normally not thought of as rude to jump in with your guitar (or vocal harmony), but you're expected to be sensitive to nonverbal cues, etc.   Occasionally, though, I do find that too many instruments mess up a song I'm doing or that the whole group seems bent on singing my song faster or slower than I want -- or not allowing me to pause between musical lines as I see fit.   But, yeah, it's not Carnegie Hall, and some of the snags do come from some people knowing less about music (e.g., not understanding the concept of a "rest" in music notation).   



But Bee mentioned having people start a whole new country song while she was still singing her folk song in a "country" singaround.
In "song circles," we sometimes go into "chaos mode," meaning no more formally taking turns in a circle. And some people do tend to start more than their share of songs, but it's still understood that you don't jump into your new song before someone else finishes theirs.

I've had that happen to me, but due no doubt mostly to the ambient noise and free flow of beer in a chantey/folk song sing.   It was at an afterparty at NW Folklife Festival a few years back.   Several times, I managed to get a few bars of a song out in the wink of an eye between the end of the last song and someone else's diving in.   My voice is soft, but not inaudible. Every single time I managed to start a song, I'll be damned if one of the big-voiced chantey singers didn't start bellowing out a different song right on top of mine.

I just gave up on that informal gathering (after singing along with quite a few), because of the atmosphere.   It was a lost cause.   But I've actually had similar things happen once or twice in much smaller, quieter settings.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 04:20 PM

Carol

Agreed. I do say how I'm running singarounds (at Chippenham and Sidmouth) and where the singing is going to go. So did Lady Aelfleda in the Tap and Spile at Whitby, but that didn't stop Tom B from complaining that she wasn't going fairly round!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: r.padgett
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 03:02 PM

Running singarounds is difficult

Discuss

Ray

sorry just joking!!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Carol
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 12:46 PM

Wouldn't it be an idea for the person who's running the singaround to 'set out' the way they are running it and then no-one has any excuse to be 'jumping in'. All regular singaround members know the score, even if they don't always agree with the way a person/people runs them.
Especially galling for the people who've been waiting to be asked to sing, and who probably got there early - grrrr

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 12:28 PM

In yesterday's lunchtime sing at Towersey festival (in the barn of the Three Horseshoes pub)a guy who sang "Black Velvet Band" looked very disgruntled because the other singers overwhelmed his chorus and didn't follow his timing. But it was a singaround run by the Admiral, not a session, and he'd jumped in when it wasn't his turn....

Kitty

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Bert
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 12:06 PM

Politeness is a matter of obeying the generally accepted rules of each gathering...

You're right GUEST.

I used to go to one group where "please feel free to play along" was the rule. That's not the way I prefer things but that was the rule so it was fine. Just once in the evening I would try to sing something that nobody else knows. It wasn't breaking the rules but it sometimes worked.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 08:57 PM

Set out the 'rules' or expectations ahead of time. Things like, "Smoking will be Ok outside at breaks" and "Please do one song and let the next person have a turn" or "Please do not sing along unless invited to do so by the person singing". That's fair enuf, and it would get rid of lotsa problems before they start. Either that or give offenders a copy of "Everything I need to Know I learned in Kindergarten".

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: kendall
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 08:24 PM

It's not just guitar players who "noodle", there are banjo and flute players who do it also. It's like they are in an altered state and they don't even know they are being selfish and rude.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 08:07 PM

Perhaps it would be wise to differentiate between the two. A singaround is a place for each to perform in turn. When a singer TAKES THEIR TURN and sings, they are interpreting a song as they hear it. Personally I don't mind folks joining in on the choruses. I don't even mind them joining me on the verse, IF they have taken a moment to figure out HOW I am doing the song. To do otherwise is rude, IMO.

A session is inclusive by its nature, and usually it is instrumental. The rules depend on the setting.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 07:55 PM

Y'know, not all singaroundss/sessions are performances. Politeness is a matter of obeying the generally accepted rules of each gathering. And if it's normal for others to join in, it's rude to insist on going it solo.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 07:50 PM

Yep, Mary. I agree with Killen. As you know, I often phrase differently when I sing, and I try to let folks know to listen to where I am going and then jump in on the chorus. As a singer, I also prefer that folks join on the chorus only, for the most part.

BTW, one could never tell that you are an unaccompanied singer when you and George perform. It is a wonderful thing to hear the two of you.

Hope all is well.

Mick

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: lamarca
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 07:27 PM

I've encountered two forms of session/songswap rudeness around here. The first is in a singing session that isn't specifically a round robin, guitar players who constantly "noodle" - no-one knows if they're about to start a song, and it makes it difficult as hell for an unaccompanied singer to find his/her own pitch and melody and launch into a song.

The second happened at a local monthly shanty sing. A group of singers who were obviously good friends sat at a couple adjoining tables. Whenever someone from "their" group led a song, they were attentive and joined in. Whenever someone else led a song, they would go back to loud conversation among themselves...

I'm an unaccompanied singer mainly because I'm "instrumentally challenged" - the only instrument I've ever been able to master is my voice! However, I'm fortunate to have a partner who'll work out wonderful accompaniments to my songs on his guitar. If he's not around and I want to do a song that I think would sound good with accompaniment, I'll ask if anyone can fake their way through it in something approximating A... But if I'm singing something with George where we've worked out a specific harmony or chord, and folks around us play or sing a different chord, it really throws me.

We've been guilty of this, too. Louis Killen did a house concert here a couple years ago, and started singing a song that we had learned from Coope, Boyes and Simpson. We tried to sing our harmonies, but they didn't work. At the break, Louis said to me "Listen to how the singer is doing the song FIRST - then join in if you can do it his way..." Sound advice, whether you're talking about accompaniment or harmony or even joining in on a chorus - listen first!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Willie-O
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 09:58 AM

Another take on "how to deal with..."

I have a good mate who has been a repeat offender committing "session sins". (Well, not at sessions mostly. Hippie jams really, but developing more and more of a Celtic flavour over the years). He sings too loud, takes over the lead if you sing a song he knows, and plays aimless and annoying lead guitar on tunes or songs he doesn't know the chords too. And when he learns a song, he usually changes the melody to suit himself--dumbing it down generally--and then because he's an alpha male, others in our circle end up thinking that's how it goes, and I they all start doing it WRONG (as in, not the way I learned it). Also, he's a bodhran player (shudder) and a singer-songwriter (double shudder). I stopped going to most of his jam-parties years ago cause it all wore me out. The points of conflict have been a source of considerable friction with us over the years.

However, he's a great friend and over the years has become fairly decent on the bodhran, and writes good songs. So, what to do?

I started a band, and invited him to join! The quid pro quo is that I'm the leader, and the objective is to get paying gigs, which has worked fairly well. This allows me to put up my arms and yell "Stop!!!!" when sins occur, and ask him to please just sing on the chorus, or the tag line, not noodle on guitar, rein in the bodhran somewhat ("hold down the rhythm" is any drummer's job, not "show how many licks they can give a goatskin in three seconds") etc etc. This has given me great satisfaction in a Svengalian way and it happens in fairly good humour because we all understand that's the deal. In a social situation at his house, or a pub session, I don't pull rank the same way...but I can see the changes. Definitely past Musicianship 101 now.

He gets to sing his own songs his way and contributes greatly to the character of the band. Once or twice the rest of us practiced without him and though the sound was cleaner we found we missed that particular energy he brings. And in performance it is there too and is a big part of our sound, especially his "ARRRRRRRRing" pirate song.

Doesn't work for every situation, but maybe since the UK has passed so many laws regarding sessions, they could institute "session boot camp" for repeat offenders...

W-O

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 06:16 AM

The 'problem' with smoke will not be an issue soon. Ray knows my views and as an organiser it's hard when friends who are smokers need to be accomodated as well as those who don't smoke.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: kendall
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 07:05 PM

Bill, about the only thing that bugs me about Irish music is that habit of modulating the key.
There was a guy named Charlie Moore who took KEVIN BARRY and rebuilt it into an American civil war song. Now, everyone who sings his song copies his style of raising the pitch after each verse. It adds nothing to the song, and when I do Kevin Barry I absolutely refuse to do that. One guy said thats not how that song goes! Did he lead with his chin, or what?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Carol
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:10 PM

Hi Ray
I did say that I enjoyed the session, what I didn't say was that smoking wouldn't stop me coming into the room, the funny thing was that half way through the afternoon most of the smokers seemed to disappear!!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: r.padgett
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:03 PM

Carol

You already know my feelings on smoking, can do nothing about it without prior agreement!

Certain people have said that they will stop smoking in singarounds when the law forces them to do so

I have had it in the ear from both for and against smoking

Nothing further until then I am afraid

Ray

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 04:24 PM

I've had several attempts at posting to this thread, without the posts actually landing. Just hope multiple posts don't arrive later.

The Endeavour was much better on the first Friday night! We had a really enjoyable session with Raggytash, Wombat, Ossonflags and Northerner, including my singing Hard Times in a different key on every verse. And Northerner lent me a shaky egg.....

Kitty

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 03:56 PM

yes.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 03:53 PM

Are we talking about singarounds? or singalongs? or jam sessions? or mini-performances? or what?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Carol
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 02:34 PM

Well I enjoyed Padgett's session in the Tap and Spile on Thrsday afternoon, my only 'beef' would be the cigarette smoke.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Willie-O
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 12:47 PM

What an outstanding bitchfest!

Really, almost enough said. If someone started a thread about what a great session they went to t'other night, it would be lucky to get three more posts.

Of course, you're all right, in your ways. Right, right, you're bloody well right. And you've got a bloody right to say it.

cheers
W-O

Not to say that I don't agree with Rich's original post.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Carol
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 10:40 AM

If it's the 'right' type of song I often ask people to join in if they know it, but to be honest I mean join in the singing. I prefer people not to accompany me with instruments when I'm singing as then I'm bound by their timing and loose the chance to put my own pennyworth in!
I would also argue with then that a song is somehow improved by being accompanied.
As to keys I sing most of my songs in number 8 and some in number 45!!
Nick isn't part of the problem that some muscians come along to sessions only to play and play and not to give anyone else a chance of singing - that's why I much prefer sinarounds, sorry singarounds to sessions where you have to 'jump in'.
P.S. Got to Whitby for the day on Thursday, twisted Chris's arm 'cos it was ny birthday.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:05 PM

"We had a fellow once start singing "Red River Valley"..."

Now that reminds me of a night where there was a nice wooden lectern with a tiny light on it - one well lubricated performer mistook the light for a microphone, and kept leaning forward to sing into it...

That was a good night, wasn't it Rich-joy? :-0

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:55 PM

"play with himself in his bedroom "


ooooooooooooo.......

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:35 PM

G# is a problem for some instruments, such as my Anglo concertina, but one doesn't have to play along with every song.

I generally try to figure out how strong the singer is and what other instruments are chiming in before trying to do accompaniment. Sometimes the accompaniment can be helpful to a singer who does find it difficult to stay in key, assuming the instrument is playing in the key that the singer started in.

It's probably not rude but naive to expect a circle to pick up on a new chorus without repeating it part by part or passing out a songsheet. And even more important to do this with a song where the chorus is different from what people may be familiar with.

I do get impatient with people who always sing from songsheets, week after week, and sometimes with little clue what the melody is. A little homework prior to the song session, circle, can pay off. I like to see people eventually master a song they introduce.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble