BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)

Subject: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 06:38 PM

There was an earlier thread called "Still Waiting For Jews To Riot" about the distinction between an international "Islamic" response of spoken, written, and street violence to some innocuous political cartoons which were initially published in a Danish newspaper (and some truly noxious cartoons which were not published but used inflammatorily), and the follow-on of a contest sponsored by the Iranian government (so constituted) on the theme of the Holocaust. The original "Still Waiting For Jews To Riot" thread devolved into an Israel/ Palestine/ terror debate (not so much a debate as a stimulous-response, but you get the picture).

Comes now a really well written article from the New York Times by an Iranian. I'm going to take a chance and simply paste it because it is not overlong, it flows, presents a viewpoint which captures some of the complexity of the ethnic ties and divides which fill our world, and a lot of you have a problem getting into the New York Times depending on the article. So here goes:
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September 2, 2006
Op-Ed Contributor
Reading the Holocaust Cartoons in Tehran *
By ROYA HAKAKIAN
THE news of the exhibition of Holocaust cartoons in Tehran took me back to a moment in my childhood. In 1974, his first year at Tehran's Academy for Visual Arts, my brother mounted an exhibition of his own cartoons. The drawings were a novice's best attempt at political satire, but they were enough to alarm my law-abiding father into sending my brother away to America. Our family was never whole again.

Back then, I thought my father had made the decision out of fear of Savak, the shah's intelligence agency. Years later, I realized that it was not really fear but gratitude for all that a Jewish man had been able to achieve in Iran that prompted him to send my brother away.

Born and raised in the largely Muslim town of Khonsar, my father was admitted to the university against all odds, got a master's degree, joined the military as a second lieutenant, went back to his village dressed in the first Western-style suit the locals had ever seen, then moved to Tehran to become a leading educator.

His childhood stories remain the most memorable features of our family gatherings. Once a bad mullah came to Khonsar, intent on making trouble for the Jews; two mischievous Jews drove him out by secretly spraying his prayer mat with liquor. Then there was the time a local fish peddler realized that my father had touched a fish, thereby "dirtying" the whole load. The peddler threw the rest away, providing a feast of free fish to the Jews of the town.

And the best was this: When it rained for eight consecutive days, my grandmother stormed into the office of the school superintendent to protest the rule that Jewish students had to be kept home on rainy days. Moved by my grandmother's plea, the superintendent escorted my father to his classroom, had him sip from a glass of water, then took the glass and gulped down the rest. He turned to the class and said: "If this water is good enough for me, it is good enough for all of you. From now on, Hakakian will come to class in all kinds of weather."

More than any religious instruction, these stories shaped my understanding of what it meant to be an Iranian Jew. In Persia, the land of Queen Esther, whose virtue overcame evil, one could, by wit or by wisdom, overcome every bigot.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's rhetoric about the Holocaust may terrify people who don't know Iran. But those who do, find it, above all, tragic. By resuscitating symbols like the swastika and other Nazi-era relics, he is contaminating the Iranian social realm, where such concepts have scarcely existed. No doubt Jews have been mistreated in Iran throughout their long history, but to a degree incomparable to that suffered by Russian and European Jews.

Throughout its 2,000-year presence in Persia, the Jewish community has helped shape the Iranian identity. Some major Persian literary texts survived the Arab invasion of the seventh century because they had been transliterated into Hebrew. Traditional Persian music owes its continuity to the Jewish artists who kept it alive when Muslims were forbidden to practice it. Yet Iranian Jews have had to hide their identity and restrain its expression.

Of all the pain that Muslim Iranians have inflicted upon the Jews, the most persistent is obscurity. We have always been admired for being "completely Iranian," the euphemism for being invisible, indistinguishable from Muslims. We speak Persian. We celebrate the Iranian New Year with as much verve as the next Iranian. Our kitchens smell of Persian cuisine. At our Jewish festivities, we dance to Persian music. In the United States, we have often angered our American counterparts for not wishing to pray in their temples, because we insist on conducting our services in Persian.

Yet Muslim Iranians, even those who have loved and befriended us, have never known us as Jews: in our synagogues, wrapped in prayer shawls, at our holiday tables recounting the history of our struggles. They lack even the proper vocabulary by which to speak about the Jews: "What shall I call you, 'Kalimi' or 'Johoud?' " they sometimes ask. These words are the Persian equivalents of "Jew" and "kike." And occasionally, as if to inflict punishment, they ask: "Do you consider Iran your real homeland?"

Iranian Jews remain obscure to non-Iranian Jews, too. Sometimes they are shocked when I say that my generation was on the streets chanting "Death to the shah!" But 1979 was a blissful, egalitarian moment when young people shed everything that defined them as anything but Iranian.

Four years later, the regime did its best to instate policies and practices hostile to religious minorities. Water fountains and toilets at my high school were segregated, some marked with signs that read "For Muslims Only." But by and large, Iranians were not receptive to such bigotry. We crisscrossed among the stalls until the signs became meaningless.

The post-revolutionary regime has had the misfortune of ruling a people reluctant to embrace its radical message. That is why Iran remains home to the second-largest community of Jews in the Middle East — second only to Israel.

My father barely ventures out of his Queens apartment these days. When my siblings and I scold him for not getting out enough, he says that there is nothing here he wishes to see. "Tell me we're going to Khonsar," he says, "and I'll see you at the door."

Roya Hakakian is the author of two books of poetry in Persian and the memoir "Journey from the Land of No: A Girlhood Caught in Revolutionary Iran."

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*asterisk mine: The title is a play on a book that came out a couple years ago called "Reading Lolita in Teheran".

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 07:20 PM

Beautiful article, Robomatic.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 08:02 PM

That is a beautiful article. We don't know if what he says is accurate but we have no reason to doubt it. If it's true, it casts a whole new light on Iran for us. As Americans, we can certainly understand why he doesn't want to be responsible for his current government's actions and doesn't want others to think that this governmnt actually represents the people of Iran.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: John O'L
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 07:37 PM

What government does represent the people of its electorate?

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 08:02 PM

Very interesting article indeed.

I would agree with John that there are very few, if any governments in the world today which truly represent their electorate. They represent instead the great financial and authoritative structures (industrial, legal, media/communications, banking, military, and religious) that stand behind the facade of representative government and hold the reigns at election time.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 08:42 PM

I, too, have read that article. I was quite moved by it and it surely addresses issues and situations I was not aware of. For example, I was was not aware of the large Jewish population in Iran.

One point, however. He does state n the article how "obscure" they are because they consider themselves Iranian. All well and good. But do not Americans of all ethnicities consider themselves Americans?   They still keep their ehtnicity intact--be it Italian, German, Irish, etc; I avoided saying Jewish because that is not an ethnicity---that is a religion. Would that people seperate the two.

One of the interesting things is that here in the U S we want a melting pot--all to assimilate. Elswhere---including, I believe, UK, the idea is to keep ones "seperateness".

The article was, however, an eye opener and quite moving to me.


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: bobad
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 08:58 PM

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
       Sir Winston Churchill
       British politician (1874 - 1965)

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: C. Ham
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 11:21 PM

I was was not aware of the large Jewish population in Iran.

Actually, a large Jewish population that used to be in Iran. The present Jewish population in Iran is only about 20,000 people. In 1948, there were more than 100,000 Jews in Iran.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 11:26 PM

Canada is based on a somewhat different premise than the "melting pot", Bill. We call it "multiculturalism". That's the notion that one can have a harmonious coexistence of many different cultures in one country, and there's no need to sublimate them all into one melting pot.

I'm not mentioning it with any intention to criticize the USA, I'm just mentioning it as a matter of interest, since it is clearly an approach based on quite different underlying philosophical assumptions than the American approach.

Yes, we all agree to be Canadians, but we also agree that to be "Canadian" involves many cultures, not one culture. So, it's not so much a cultural designation as it is a political/legal/citizenship designation. As Canadian citizens we share similar rights and responsibilities, but it doesn't mean we enter any kind of melting pot. The core idea, however, is not to so much to "keep one's separateness" as it is to have the ongoing friendly coexistence of different groups within one border.

I think this is also the case in some other countries, like Switzerland, where they have 4 official languages. Canada has 2 official languages. It can work just fine.

If the USA had decided to adopt such an approach, I believe you would have 2 official languages now, and they would be English and Spanish.

The American "melting pot" ideal is not necessarily either superior or inferior to multiculturalism as far as I can see...it's just different, that's all. Either approach works fine as long as you have a central government that is relatively honest, reasonable, responsible, and just in its conduct...both at home and abroad.

In other words, people need a government that inspires trust and confidence. ;-)

That's kind of hard to find these days. I'd say the Canadian government falls somewhere in the mushy middle...like a 6-7 approval rating out of 10, maybe. People complain about it a lot, but it's a mild sort of complaining...and anyway, people always complain about governments, don't they?

Now if I had your government as it is now....! Hoo boy. I'd be scared.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 12:07 AM

And I might as well mention that I wouldn't particularly want to have the Iranian government right now either... Heh!

I figured I'd better mention that before someone else did it for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: C. Ham
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:51 AM

Yes, we all agree to be Canadians, but we also agree that to be "Canadian" involves many cultures, not one culture.

We don't "all agree to be Canadians." There is a powerful separtist force in Quebec that has been working to take Quebec out of Canada for many years. The separatist party has formed the Quebec government for the majority of the past 30 years and the majority of the Quebec seats in the Canadian Parliament are currently held by separatists.

Furthermore, the Quebec Government specifically rejects the concept of Canadian multiculturalism in favor of an official policy that all other cultural communities are secondary to the francophone majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: John O'L
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 09:04 AM

We have multiculturalism in Australia too. It was working OK before it got its name and became policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:29 PM

Policy is bureaucratese for "I don't have to think".

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:55 PM

Elswhere---including, I believe, UK, the idea is to keep ones "seperateness". - Bill Hahn

No, not quite. The idea is to encourage immigrants to keep their own language and traditions while learning about Canada. Canada is country of inclusiveness. It works in my neighborhood. We have Tamil, Punjabi, Tagalog, Farsi, VietNamese, Chinese, English and French, Portugese, Spanish and Sri Lankan speakers on our block.

We just finished making signs that say "Slow Down" for the lane we share. The signs were made in all of those languages. Thats how I know. We had fun painting together and sharing food.

When you experience that kind of harmony, its very difficult to understand why some people think we all have to be "the same". We actually celebrate our differences and learn from one another. Our hope is that our children will learn that as human beings, we all have the same basic needs and that we can play and work together.

Yes, we are all Canadians but the transition from one culture to the next may take a few generations. Nobody is expected to learn about Canada instantly. Sure, immigrants may bring some 'bad habits' but
they also enrich our lives with food, music and festivals and learn Canadian values along the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:00 PM

My now-dead father-in-law was asked on his 'final exam' for citizenship (it was the last question): "What is the biggest river in Canada?" He replied, "The Sainta Louransuh (St. Lawrence). The person giving the oral test said, "Spoken like a true Canadian. Welcome to Canada." (The correct answer is the Mackenzie.)

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:02 PM

I hope they all understand "FIRE!" without having to wait half an hour for the translation.

I love multiculturalism - in moderation.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:06 PM

One would hope so.
FIRE

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:16 PM

Yes, C.Ham, you are quite correct in your comments about the Separatist movement in Quebec.

I was speaking of the general social philosophy that has been put in effect in Canada by the federal government. Undoubtedly there are individuals who disagree with that policy and they're not all located in Quebec either. I know English Canadians who detest multiculturalism. Nevertheless, it is what has been promoted and attempted in Canada by the general apparatus of society, rather than promoting the melting pot approach.

I regard the Quebecois attitude of giving Francophone culture primacy over all others in the province of Quebec as discriminatory, retrograde, and undemocratic. They've got a chip on their shoulders, and that does not produce a very good attitude in anyone, does it?

To the extent that any people anywhere have a chip on their shoulders, and see themselves largely as put-upon victims of past historical wrongs...to that extent you will find them presently behaving in a negative, reactive, and unfair manner toward other people. They become the very thing they claim they are fighting against. They become bigots. If able to gain power in a local geographical area, they become oppressors.

Where else have we seen that?

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:23 PM

We have seen it all over the world. Including the European-Canadian suppression of Canada's native peoples. In the area I grew up, we formed gangs because we had to. English fought the French, and French fought the English. Nothing new is happening. The microcosm is a reflection of the macrocosm, and most of the war in this world has to do with economics and unequal distribution of wealth. Poor people fight each other because they are too preoccupied with poverty to take a fuckin' good look at who's pulling the strings. What's new!

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: bobad
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:26 PM

"(The correct answer is the Mackenzie.)"

That is true if you are grading by length but by discharge volume the St.Lawrence is bigger 10,400 m³/sec vs.9,700 m³/sec.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: GUEST,Chong Chimp
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:27 PM

Got that right, buddy! It's like Boss Tweed said in that movie, "Gangs of New York", "you can always hire one half of the poor to kill the other half for you".

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 06:28 PM

"That is true if you are grading by length but by discharge volume the St.Lawrence is bigger 10,400 m³/sec vs.9,700 m³/sec."

SDpoken like another true Canadian.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 04:56 PM

Sudanese editor found beheaded:


Beheading


Apparently there was an article in his paper about the parentage of You-Know-Who PBUH.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 07:23 AM

I did a picture of a happy beaming Jesus with his arm around Mohammed.
Mohammed's face is pixilated (obscured) to protect the sanctity of Islamic law which prohibits the sight of the prophet.
In the background Moses is walking away from the limelight while exclaiming only one word, "oy".

in the farthest background a giant bhudda is exploding.

Subject: RE: BS: Holocaust Cartoons (Part Deux)
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 03:54 PM

Hakman: I was just thinking of you. Howzabout the usual link to your pic? Can you draw your characters as Simpsons?