Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Packie Byrne)

Subject: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: chrisgl
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 10:14 AM

Just over a month ago the BBC ran 5 short programmes entitled
"In Drovers' Boots"
{QUOTE}
Huw Williams embarks on a journey of discovery as he follows the well-trodden routes of the drovers, from deepest Pembrokeshire to Smithfield Market.
{/QUOTE}

They used a snippet of a poem or song that I'd like to see the full version. For once it looks like it's a Drover's song that isn't Australian or American {grin}

I am an old drover I earn my pay
by tramping this country all over
there's no where to stop at the end of the day
for that is the life of a drover



Neither Mudcat no Google throw any light.

I guess I ought to transcribe the music that was played along with it.

chris :-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 04:03 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:26 PM

DALES COUNTRYSIDE MUSEUM FARMING PAST AND PRESENT

google that. It is pdf which I know nothing about, but the lyrics are there--or at least four stanzas of them.

Or google this--heck, I never know which is the best thing to post. And, I havbe no idea how to copy and paste words from pdf sites.

217.77.186.231/YorkshireDales_development/4farming.pdf

PS That was found with a google of

"I am an old drover"

NB the quotation marks.

Subject: Lyr Add: LIFE OF A DROVER (Packie Byrne)
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 06:11 PM

From the document Peace references:

Mick

---

I am an old drover, I earn my pay
By tramping this country all over;
With nowhere to stop at the end of the day,
For that is the life of a drover.

And over the highways and byeways I plod,
My clothes are all tattered my feet are ill-shod,
But there isn't a roadway that I haven't trod,
Being forty-five summers a drover.

When the weather is raining, the journey is long
And the cattle get foot-sore and lazy,
Then I help them along with an old droving song
And I hustle them careful and easy.

And when at the end Mr Death comes around,
To tell me my days are all over,
As they bury my bones six feet deep in the ground
My ghost will appear as a drover.

Byrne, Life of a Drover

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 07:11 PM

Thank you very much, Mike.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: GUEST,Phil
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 07:35 PM

The idea of driving livestock in the UK is new to me, I found a book which gave a brief account of driving cattle in England but that is all I have ever read the subject. I'm familiar with droving in Australia and the songs and folklore surrounding it but I don't of anything about droving in the UK.

Are there any songs? Perhaps they are mixed with songs of the travellers?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:49 PM

Drovers were a common sight in 19th century Britain; they were not "travellers" in the modern sense, just people driving cattle or sheep (or even geese, typically wearing little boots made of tar) to be sold at distant markets. In the days before trains and lorries, you just had to walk. The term has acquired quite a cultural resonance in Australia, but (like "cowboy" in America) it didn't originate there.

Most previous discussions here relate to the Australian experience, but a few touch on other aspects.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 01:17 AM

G'day Chris, Phil, Malcom ... &c,

Something (I suspect it was Ted Egan's Faces of Australia series ... The Drovers ...?) I was reading on the Celtic presence in Australian long-distance (sometimes the breadth of our Island Continent!) cattle droving mentioned the long history of Scottish droving of cattle to English markets. The reference that stuck in my mind was to Rob Roy having been a drover!

Now ... did this bear on the reputation that drovers have, in Australian, of being quite adept at avoiding those who who impose legal controls on drovers ... those who might like to enquire as to the provenance of some of the beasts ... ?

(Come to think of it ... not only did their Scottish forebears do a good job of following cross-border paths that did not coincide with excise points ... but questions might well be asked about who thought their cattle were still safely in the back paddock ... !)

Regards,

Bob

(OK ... I will try to find the book and scan in some relevant paragraphs!)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: nutty
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 02:05 AM

More information on Droving in Britain can be found ......
HERE

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 03:57 AM

I've just been delving about in my library and dug out a couple of books on droving in Britain, these are:

'The Drovers, who they were and how they went: an epic of the English countryside' by K.J.Bonser, MacMillan & Co. Ltd., 1970.

and

'Highland Drove' by John Keay, John Murray Ltd., 1984

The latter book is the author's account of an attempt to recreate a Highland drove in 1981. "John and Julia Keay attempted to recreate the most dramatic and demanding of these droves. With assorted friends, dogs and ponies they set off from the west coast of the Isle of Skye to drive a herd of Highland cattle two hundred miles to Crieff in Perthshire."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: GUEST,Phil
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 03:37 AM

Thanks for you help. I'll enjoy reading through these references.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 06:15 AM

G'day,

Nutty's link (above) was quite interesting ... and covered many of the points I had from Ted Egan's book (actually called The Overlanders ... an Australian term specific to those drovers who took beasts across vast tracts of wild land).

Sorry about the paste - but this is part of what Ted's collaborator Peter Forrest had to say about the suitability of the Scots for this work:

The Overlanders Songbook, Faces of Australia Series, Ted Egan, 1984.
Pages 13 /14 - text by Peter Forrest (part of chapter 1, The Overlanders):

The contribution and influence of these people of Scottish origin or descent to Australian overlanding has been so powerful that an explanation must be sought

As early as 1359, two Scottish drovers were given safe conduct to bring cattle into England and, ten years later, the Scots Parliament imposed customs dues on cattle exported to England. By the early years of the sixteenth century, cattle were coming from the Western Isles and the Highlands toward the Lowlands and thence as far afield as London. The drover was already celebrated in song and verse - none more than Rob Roy, who was a drover and honest cattle dealer before living as an outlaw and cattle thief. Sir Walter Scott, the grandson of a drover, wrote 'The Highlanders, in particular, are masters of this difficult trade of droving, which seems to suit them as well as the trade of war. It affords exercise for all their habits of patient endurance and active exertion. They are required to know perfectly the drove roads which lie over the wildest tracts of country, and to avoid as much as possible the highways which distress the feet of the bullocks, and the turnpikes which annoy the spirit of the drover, whereas on the broad green or grey track which leads across the pathless moor, the herd not only moves at ease and without taxation but if they mind their business, may pick up a mouthful of food by the way.'

Others describe the Scottish drovers as 'great stalwarts, shaggy and wild, their clothing and physique suited to the hardships of their lives'. Of necessity, they were heavily armed against cattle raiders and dressed usually in homespun tweeds, smelling of heather and peat smoke. A coarse plaid and a ram's horn filled with whisky had to suffice for warmth even on the coldest nights. The drover's food was a bag of oatmeal and a few onions, replenished every few days as opportunity offered.

A nineteenth century visitor compared favourably the skill and organising ability of a Scottish drover to that of the Duke of Wellington. "To purchase a thousand cattle from a multitude of individuals and march them, in one or more great battalions, from the extremity of Scotland into the centre of England, at the expense of only a few shillings each, is an undertaking that requires genius, caution and provision for many contingent circumstances, beside the knowledge which is requisite to their disposal to such advantage as may encourage the continuance of the trade.'

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I am an old drover I earn my pay...
From: chrisgl
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 07:18 AM

Thanks for all the help and background information too!

I wonder if there's an 'official' tune for it, tho' I'm intending to rejig the tune the Beeb used as backing to the reading.


Google puzzles me. I did the search that Puzzle did ("I am an old drover") and didn't turn anything useful up at all.

Repeating it today has two links to _this_ thread and opne to an Australian govt. document.


chris :-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: Tootler
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 05:29 PM

I was in the Dales Countryside Museum in Hawes today and I came across the poem quoted in this thread in a section on cattle.

I was trying to find out more about the author of the poem, who is simply given as "Byrne" - no initials and the only relevant link I found on Google was this thread.

Has anyone come across a poet by the name of Byrne by any chance.

In the meantime I am in the process of writing a tune for the poem. If chrisgl is still about, did you manage to notate the tune from the BBC programmes as it is now four years since they were broadcast so the "play it again" has long gone.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 06:08 PM

David Wilkie and Cowboy Celtic recorded a song called "The Drover Road to Ambulee" on a CD "The Drover Road". He claims Ambulee, a small village near Dunkeld, was Scotland's first cattle market, where they sold cattle to the English. The English would not venture into the highlands. The Drover roads came from the lslands of Skye, Harris,Bara,Lewis. Mull and North and South Ulst.
Unfortunately that's the only song on the album about Scottish Drovers but he may have more.
The CD is on the Shanachie label.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: Tootler
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 06:50 PM

I have heard a song about the drovers sung hereabouts. It sounded like a modern song to me and dealt with the ending of droving with the coming of the railways. I don't know what it was called. It could be the one Guest above referred to or it could be another.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 07:18 PM

I wonder if the Byrne in question might be Packie Manus Byrne who certainly did a spell of cattle droving in his time. He did write a song or poem Highways & Byeways for Spin magazine in 1966 which was quoted by Kenneth Bonser in his 1970 book The Drovers. Bonnie Shaljean might know something useful; I'll send her a PM.

Matthew

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 28 Jul 10 - 01:57 AM

No, I don't think so, or I'd surely know of it - I've seen and heard a lot of his own songs and this one is new to me. Byrne is a fairly common surname.

But he certainly did do some droving. I remember him speaking of how he once drove a herd of cattle from Donegal to Omagh. He came to England in 1937 (I think) when he was about 20, and did some kind of horse-related work for the London-East Midlands railway, "breaking horses" or something. I also remember him talking about this to a radio crew who were taping him for programme, but please don't ask me for broadcast details because I just can't recall! We did a lot of radio things, either the two of us or just Packie.

I'll be talking to him on the phone very soon, and will ask about this, and post if there is anything of interest to add.

Bonnie

PS: Got your PM, Matthew - thanks!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: Tootler
Date: 28 Jul 10 - 12:46 PM

Thanks for your info, Bonnie.

The poem looks to me like a 19th century broadside. I have a book of railway poems which has one in it about the navvies that describes their lifestyle in a similar way. However, it could equally be a modern poem about the drover's life but trying to capture an older feel.

I checked the Bodleian library Broadside website but with no luck. I also searched for a poet by the name of Byrne and while Google gave a number of hits, there wasn't anything that looked particularly promising.

I have sent a query to the Dales Countryside Museum to see if they have any more information about the poem.

In the North of England, the drovers routes largely ran across the high ground where the population was sparse. There was one along the western edge of the North York Moors not far from where I live.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: chrisgl
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 02:08 PM

Best of luck with that. All I got was a stoney silence from them :(


In response to a slightly earlier bit of the thread.

I never got anywhere with the Beeb either :(
Nor with asking around "do you recognise this tune"
It has been suggested that the BBC may have had the music composed especially - given the fit with (most of) the words, that could well be the case.

What I have now is an almost working version of the tune they used. But I can't get the last bit to play nice ! which is why I didn't post it back here. I guess I should have asked for help! Silly me.

I've still got the BBC program as MP3 and I think I've got a Myriad Harmony Assistant version. It's on a different, switched off computer so I'll have to go and check.

Related but vaguely - Does anyone have details for Sally, the Lemonaid Lady. I promised to get in touch with here and whilst I still have her email address, it is cunnigly sitting in one of those "safe places".

chrsi :-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 02:37 PM

Tootler - The modern sounding song you refer to could well be Keith Marsdens , using a lump of Vivaldi for the tune !

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 02:49 PM

I had a look and its in the Digitrad

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: chrisgl
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 04:44 PM

I ought to say that I /will/ post the finalised tune.

What I have isn't quite right - yeah, even after all this time...@"


chris :-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 08:07 AM

I've managed to borrow a copy of the book Shimrod referred to earlier by Kenneth Bonser; The Drovers, Macmillan, 1970. On pages 120-121 he quotes from an article written by Packie Manus Byrne in Spin (The Folksong Magazine), VI, No 1, 1968.

"Every drover I've known (and there's quite a few) was either a singer musician or both. Traditional music and folk songs played an important part in our lives, it was almost a religion to us."

The book then goes on to give the song in full as written by Packie, called Highways and Byeways, or the Life of a Drover. This is the same as the version discovered by Bruce Murdoch in Sept 06, and written out above by Mick Pearce except that the second verse is actually a chorus.

The book doesn't give Packie's tune for his song; I've tried to track down a copy of Spin magazine for 1968, but so far without success. Bonnie has said that she would ask Packie about the song - it would be nice to see what he remembers about it.

Matthew

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Byrne)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 12:57 PM

Can't help with the lyrics requested, but I have a book which was given to me by my Grandmother, called 'The Drovers Highway', by Roy Saunders, and although it is a novel depicting the life of the drovers on such a drive from mid-Wales to Smithfield market in London in the 1840's, and describes the various perils they encountered on the way. It was published by the Oldbourne Book Co.Ltd. 121 Fleet St. London E.C.4. in 1959.
It was given to me in 1962 as a Xmas present; and my Gran, as a child, could remember the drovers passing through her locality and calling at her farm to take their cattle and sheep to the London markets where the prices were highest. The book actually mentions the name of my Grandmother's farm -'Cilane', and so has a very special significance for me!
P

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Packie Byrne)
From: chrisgl
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 05:30 PM

Here's an ABC of the tune I'm using based on the BBC program. That version was not used to sing the lyric, rather it was played in the background whilst the words were read. The 2nd part of the tune was something of a jig and I've had to simplify it tho' not totally successfully to my ear so far.
-------
    %!HARMONY ABC @
    %Harmony/Melody File to ABC Vers 3.0.2 April 1998-March 2009
    %Written by Guillion Bros. on a Chris Walshaw format
    %Please e-mail us your comments and bugs reports : [e-mail]
    %Tuesday, August 24, 2010 19:38:52


X:1    %Music
T:Life of a Drover    %Tune name
C:    %Tune composer
N:    %Tune infos
Q:1/4=55    %Tempo
V:1    %
    %!STAVE 0 'Voice' @
    %!INSTR 'Piano 1[Ch1]' 0 0 @
M:6/8    %Meter
L:1/8    %
K:F
(D/D/)G (G/A/)B (D2 |
w:I- am a-n old dro-
w:When the we-a-ther is raining,
E)F3/2 G/A C2 |
w:ver, I earn my pay
w:the jou-ney is long
(B,/C/)D D(B,/C/) DD |
w:By- tram-ping thi-s coun-try
w:And the ca-ttle ge-t foot-sore
(B,/(C/)D) (G(A) G2) |
w:a-ll o---ver
w:a-nd la---zy,
(D/D/)(G (G/)A/)B D3/2D/ |
w:With- no-whe-re to stop at
w:Then I he-lp them a-long with
EF3/2 G/A C2 |
w:the end of the day
w:an old dro-ving song
(B,/C/)D D(B,/C/) DD |
w:Fo-r that is the- life of
w:And I hu-stle the-m care-ful
(B,/C/)D (G(F) G2) |
w:a- dro---ver.
w:a-nd ea---sy
AB BF BB |
w:And o-ver the high-ways
w:And when at the end Mis-
A(B/c/) dc B2 |
w:and bye- ways I plod
w:ter De-ath comes a-round
(F/_E/)D D(B,/C/) DD |
w:My- clothes are a-ll ta-ttered
w:To- tell me my- days are
(B,/C/)D DC D2 |
w:my- feet are ill shod
w:a--ll o-v-er,
D/D/(G-(G/A/)B DD |
w:But there is-n't a road-way
w:As they bu-ry my bones six
EF3/2 G/A C2 |
w:that I hav-en't trod,
w:feet deep in the ground
(B,/C/)D D(B,/C/) DD |
w:Be-ing for-ty five- su-mmers
w:My- ghost will a--ppear-
(B,/(C/)D) (GF) G2 |]
w:a- dro---ver.
w:as-a dro---ver.
V:2    %
    %!STAVE 0 'Tune' @
    %!INSTR 'Piano 1' 1 4000 @
M:6/8    %Meter
L:1/8    %
K:F
DG G/A/B D2 |
EF3/2 G/A C2 |
B,/C/D DB,/C/ DD |
B,/C/D GA G2 |
DG G/A/B D2 |
EF3/2 G/A C2 |
B,/C/D DB,/C/ DD |
B,/C/D GF G2 |
AB BF BB |
AB/c/ dc B2 |
F/_E/D DB,/C/ DD |
B,/C/D DC D2 |
DG G/A/B D2 |
EF3/2 G/A C2 |
B,/C/D DB,/C/ DD |
(B,/(C/)D) (GF) G2 |]
    %End of file

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Packie Byrne)
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 04:13 PM

After writing my previous post, Beryl Davis, formerly the editor of Spin magazine, has very kindly sent me a copy of the pages from Packie's article in Spin magazine from 1968. The song originally had a few more verses so I'll give the whole song again here. The song was published with a tune but I'm useless at converting staff notation so I hope Chris or somebody else will help me out here. I bet that somebody somewhere has got a tape of Packie singing this - if so it would make a great present to give him.

Highways and Byeways

or The Life of a Drover
Words and music by Packie Manus Byrne
Copyright © 1968 SPIN PUBLICATIONS

I am an old drover, I earn my pay
By tramping this country all over;
With nowhere to stop at the end of the day,
For that is the life of a drover.

CHORUS
And over the highways and byeways I plod,
My clothes are all tattered my feet are ill-shod,
But there isn't a roadway that I haven't trod
Being forty-five summers a-droving.

Some call me a tramp and say "no fixed abode",
Some say that my life I am squandering,
But I reckon myself to be King of the Road,
So I'll keep to my droving and wandering.
CHORUS:

Some times I feel tired and sleepy as well,
When drowsiness gives me the warning,
I lay myself down and sleep sound as a bell
Then I rise like a lark in the morning.
CHORUS:

When the weather is raining, the journey is long,
And the cattle get foot-sore and lazy,
Then I help them along with an old droving song,
And I hustle them careful and easy.
CHORUS:

I haven't a house, I haven't a home,
I haven't a friend or relation,
I was one of the kind that was born for the roam,
And anywhere's my destination.
CHORUS:

And when at the end Mr. Death comes around,
To tell me my days are all over,
As they bury my bones six feet deep in the ground
My ghost will appear as a drover.
CHORUS:

Thanks again to Beryl Davis for uncovering these words to a great song from a master singer and storyteller.

Matthew

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Packie Byrne)
From: chrisgl
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 06:39 PM

Matthew said:
>The song was published with a tune but I'm useless at converting
> staff notation so I hope Chris or somebody else will help me out here.

That will be a (probably slightly sad) pleasure.

The BBC tune starts off fitting the words perfectly but then drifts off. I am hoping like mad that they actually used the real tune. I'll see soon. This is rather exciting!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Packie Byrne)
From: Tootler
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 08:53 AM

Thanks to Matthew for sending me a copy of the song from the Spin Magazine article. I have transcribed the tune into Noteworthy and produced an ABC of the original tune. Here it is:

X:1
T:Highways and Byeways or The Life of a Drover
C:Packie Manus Byrne.
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
K:Gm
(G,4A,2)|B,2C2D2|F2D2C2|(D2G,2)G,2|G,4F2|F2D2C2|D2F2F2|(G3A GF)|D4C2|D2G3F|D2C3D|F2A,2G,2|A,4G,2|A,2C2D2|C3A, F,2|(G,4A,2)|G,2(F,2G,2)|A,3B, D2|F2D2C2|D2G,2G,2|G,2z2F2|F3D C2|D F3D2|G2G2(GF)|D4CC|D G3(GF)|D2F3C|F2G, G,3|F,2z2G, G,|B,2C2D2|C A,3F,2|G,4G,2|]

This is quite different from the tune that Chrisgl has transcribed. It sounds as if the BBC used a traditional air (or one in traditional style) simply as background music, rather than using a tune for the song.

I wrote a tune which is different again. Here is an ABC of my tune.

X:2
T:The Life of a Drover
C:Words by Packie Manus Byrne, Tune by Geoff Walker
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:1/8=180
K:G
D|G3/2A/B c3/2B/A|(B3/2A/)G A2D|G3/2A/B c3/2B/A|B3A2D|
G3/2A/B c3/2B/A|B3/2A/G A2c|B3/2A/G E3/2D/E|A3G2||D|G3/2A/B c3/2B/A|B3/2A/G A2D|G3/2A/B c3/2B/A|B3/2A/G A2D/D/|
G3/2A/B c3/2B/A|B3/2A/G A2c/c/|B3/2A/G E3/2D/E|A3G2|]

You can hear me singing it on my MySpace page. You will have to scroll the player as it is the last song on the player. I sing the words as posted by Mick Pearce in September 2006. I will probably change it eventually but not just at the moment. Knowing that one of the "verses" is a chorus is useful as it is better for singing in a folk club.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Packie Byrne)
From: chrisgl
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 07:31 PM

I now reckon the Beeb's composer did what they often do with themes for TV programs - make a tune that fits the title - so; "The Sweeney, The Sweeney..." and others that escape me at this time of night. Oh dear. Does that mean that the well known Sci Fi series also fits :( "Doctor Who, Doctor Who, Doctor Who, Doctor Who..."

But I digress.

Fascinating to hear the original and the first alternative to the one I kind of consider to be mine (yeah, I know)

I feel that the song becomes too long with a chorus so I'll likely drop verse 5 as it seems least Drover-like, and pair the chorus with v.1 which gives three verses.

Now; which tune. This is like having to choose either milk or plain chocolate - the which I both like.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Life of a Drover (Packie Byrne)
From: Tootler
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 07:53 PM

I sang it tonight at a local folk club using my own tune and it was well received.

I agree that six verses with a chorus after every verse makes for quite a long song which in a singaround is little unfair on other singers. One strategy is to sing the chorus on alternate verses so it is only sung 3 times. Alternatively you can leave verses out and sing the chorus every verse.

I chose the second course and left out verses 2 & 3 and moved verse 5 up to verse 2 to make what I felt was still a coherent song. I did put in an instrumental verse (w/o chorus) though.