BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?

Subject: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 01:31 AM

Asda, part of the Wal-Mart group, has called on the UK goverment to withdraw from the European Union Common fisheries policy. Where Wal-Mart goes, others follow, so we can expect to see the other big supermarkets pick up on this.

Why does this matter? The fisheries of Europe, especially those in the North Sea are collapsing, and the politicians cannot agree to make the necessary cuts. Scientists are saying we need cuts of 80 or 90% in the fishing of some species, and total bans in others, to avoid driving these species to virtual extinction. If we take back control of UK waters we could enforce the necessary cuts, and avoid this ongoing tradgedy of the commons.

It may be naked self intrest for Wal-Mart etc, but in this case, they're actually acting for the greater good, somehow.....

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 02:25 AM

Hi Bari
I can't see Wal-Mart acting for the greater good of anyone else but themselves. It would be more likely that they can't under cut a failing market & rather than not compete they'd rather 1. get the credit as finally being a do good corp. & 2. they'd rather see that there is no market if they can't corner it.

Am I a bit cynical & suspicious? Why of course! Do I have good cause to be? Why of course!

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 04:50 AM

Well in this cae they are on the side of the angels. Everybody knows that the reckless overfishing of English (sorry British!)waters have depleted an important resource of food for the entire world.

it needs organisations with the political muscle of the multinational companies to sort this out.

mere political parties have proved too venal and too much in hock to vested interests to take a stand and sort out this long running problem.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 09:29 AM

Its the same PR stunt as Mal Wart giving away a thousand bucks here and there to a few carefully chosen local causes (while they take millions out of the community) or John D. Rockefeller tossing handfuls of dimes from his limousine to the crowds.

And unfortunately, it seems to work on some not-too-discerning folks.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 09:34 AM

I know that Wal-Mart has its poor reputation and it is the parent company of Asda but it certainly looks like the parent has given the child more autonomy than most to me. Asda was always a very good company both to work for and in the community. Looks to me like it still is and I have heard nothing to the contrary. Whether it will stay that way is entirely another set of fisheries but at the moment I will give Asda the benefit of the doubt and say they are acting for the common good.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 09:42 AM

Don't say we didn't warn ya, Dave ...........

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 10:36 AM

There is an excellent article in a recent New Yorker about the North Atlantic fisheries. The U.S. side of things is looking pretty poor also. Look in the July 31, 2006 issue, a profile called "The Lobsterman," about Maine fisherman and scientist Ted Ames and his research into the historic information regarding fish spawning grounds. If WalMart wants to lead the way, it doesn't matter the reason. It needs to be done. Let them get credit for doing something good--it might encourage them to try something else eco-friendly.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 10:43 AM

Thanks, Greg, forewarned is forearmed I guess. I just keep treating each day that Asda continue to be a responsible company as a bonus for us English:-) And you never know, Parents can learn from childen and Wal-Mart may take a leaf out of Asda's book one of these days!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 10:59 AM

How virtuous of Wal Mart! How good this is!!

Oh, and while they take millions out of the community, as mentioned above, they also leave millions of dollars worth of merchandise behind in exchange -- toaster ovens, Big Wheeler trikes, plastic place mats, vinyl dining tables, sugar-coated breakfast stuffs, mouthwash and toothpaste, make-up, nylon underwear, and all the other vital necessities of life in the Great Half-Sleep Zone. This is not a Bad Thing... well, not completely, anyway.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 01:07 PM

Amos, that is the perfect illustration of "damning with faint praise." It needs to go in a dictionary.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Kaleea
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 01:10 PM

Wallyworld? Good?   hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 01:16 PM

the good side is that I don't know where there is one near me - I wopuld hate to have to detour to avoid it - as well as Tesco. Mind you Tesco do have a car park near enough to town - and it is available to the general public by decree of the local council. No free car park - no Tesco. Just let one person tell me I can't park there .............

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Old Guy
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 05:02 PM

Amos's shopping list is not at all like mine. Except, err, well, I'll admit, I bought some plastic placemats there because they matched my decor and no one else had them. I've had them for 6 years now.

But the toaster ovens, Big Wheeler trikes, plastic place mats, vinyl dining tables, sugar-coated breakfast stuffs, mouthwash and toothpaste, make-up, nylon underwear that they sell at Target and Sears is much more necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 05:36 PM

"nylon underwear"

I'm afraid to ask . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 06:36 PM

Hmmmmm.... Good thing we're under a peace covenant!! :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 12:14 AM

I was in Walmart yesterday after work and there was a school teacher stuffing a basket full of goods. She said that each of the Walmarts in the vicinity had offered $500. worth of school paraphernalia gratis to the local school system.
I was amused by the practise of getting questions answered by the employees. When you ask a a question their first step is to lead you to the English speaking employee!

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Old Guy
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 12:17 AM

At the Walmart where I shop, they have to spit thier tobacco juice before they can answer.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 01:22 AM

The side with the exit door.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 01:48 AM

yeh, breathes there a soul so dull that can't get excited by nylon underwear.....

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 09:46 AM

each of the Walmarts in the vicinity had offered $500. worth of school paraphernalia gratis to the local school system.

Wow! and this after negotiating probably a multi-million dollar tax break so they pay nothing whatever into the local school system in the first place.

Five Hundred Whole Fu$king Dollars. Might buy a couple dozen text books.
Talk about generosity.

They're running a shell game --- and its working.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Old Guy
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 12:40 AM

Wal-Mart Donates $15 Million To Katrina Victims

The chain will give away essential items to Katrina victims, including clothing, diapers, baby wipes, food, formula, toothbrushes, bedding, and water.

By Laurie Sullivan
InformationWeek

Sep 1, 2005 10:00 PM

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. said Thursday August sales rose 3.3%, led by higher demand for groceries. Now the world's largest retailer is giving back as it assesses the damage to many locations in the south that will remain closed.

Lee Scott, Wal-Mart president and chief executive officer, said the Bentonville, Ark. retailer will commit $15 million to jump-start relief efforts after President George W. Bush called on Congress late Thursday to approve $10.5 billion in federal aid for victims of Hurricane Katrina.

Senate and House leaders announced rare sessions before the Labor Day weekend to authorize the funds. As a related announcement, former Presidents George Bush and Bill Clinton will lead efforts to help victims of Hurricane Katrina.

As part of Wal-Mart's commitment it will establish mini-Wal-Mart stores in areas impacted by the hurricane. The stores will give away essential items, including clothing, diapers, baby wipes, food, formula toothbrushes, bedding, and water.

Through its Associate Disaster Relief Fund the company is giving displaced employees immediate funds for shelter, food, clothing and other necessities. Wal-Mart previously donated $2 million in cash to aid emergency relief efforts and has been collecting contributions at its 3,800 stores and Sam's clubs, and through its Web sites.

Wal-Mart also has created an Internet and in-store service to allow Wal-Mart associates and the general public to post messages and inquiries to family and friends affected by the hurricane. The sites are available on walmart.com, samsclub.com, walmartstores.com, and walmartfacts.com. Consumers also can access this information at the Hiring Center, Connection Center and Gift Registry kiosks in any Wal-Mart Store, Sam's Club, or Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market.

Telecommunications in the area is shaky. Most messages on the site are posted by family members and friends. Amana Meyers in Summit Point, W.Va., is looking for Stephen Smith in Mississippi, asking him to "Please contact me when you can." Some are posted by victims that have reached safety. Through a posting on Sept. 1, Louda Smith in Brookhaven, Miss., wants her friends and family to know "Everyone is okay" and "will make contact when possible."

Activity on the informational Web site is growing fast. Wal-Mart says that since the site went up yesterday, 2,238 messages have been posted from people outside the company, 1,582 from employees, and 209,543 total Web-site hits.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Old Guy
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 12:42 AM

Wal-Mart: Saving The Planet
May 25, 2006 (CBS)
        
(The Nation) This column was written by Liza Featherstone. This week Wal-Mart announced a gift of half a million dollars to help protect 28,000 acres of forest in Idaho and Washington, as part of the company's ongoing Acres for America program, run in partnership with the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Old Guy
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 12:46 AM

The Salvation Army Volume 23 Number 7 August 2006

Bloomsburg, Pa.—Wal-Mart has announced that it will contribute $200,000 to The Salvation Army for its flood relief effort in Pennsylvania.

The nation's largest retailer, based in Bentonville, Ark., also will enlist the support of its customers. Anyone wishing to contribute to the relief efforts may do so at Wal-Mart stores across the Northeast, including Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Massachusetts.

Hank Mullany, senior vice president of operations for Wal-Mart's Northeast Division, made the announcement July 1. Mullany greeted Pennsylvania Gov. Edward G. Rendell and U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum as they toured flood-damaged areas.

"We know that the recovery and rebuilding have just begun," Mullany said. "Surviving a natural disaster like this means more than just riding out the rain and floods. It means rebuilding homes, lives and communities."

Wal-Mart's immediate focus is taking care of its 300 associates affected by the floods.

The company is also focusing on its communities in Pennsylvania and the entire affected region, working with public officials at the state and local levels to assess and support needs such as bottled water and cleaning supplies.
Some examples

• The Wal-Mart in Dixon City relayed a need for bottled water in Susquehanna County. Wal-Mart delivered a truckload of water, about 12,000 gallons, to the Susquehanna County Fire Station.

• Two truckloads of water (about 24,000 gallons) were delivered to the Great Bend Fire Station.

• The Wal-Mart in Harrisburg worked with the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency to provide supplies for inspectors to begin field visits that would pave the way for residents to return to their homes.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Old Guy
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 12:49 AM

Virginia Legal Aid Society, Inc.
        
A non-profit organization providing free legal information, advice and representation in civil cases to low-income families and individuals in Central, Southside and Western Tidewater Virgini

         Wal-Mart Donates to VLAS         

Wal-Mart Helps Non-Profits Losing Local Government Funding

WDBJ April 30, 11 PM story from their website

A number of Lynchburg non-profits have lost city funding this year, but one company is stepping in to help.

Today a local Wal-Mart presented five non-profits with one-thousand dollars each.

The organizations were chosen by store employees who say they're simply living out the dream of Wal- Mart founder Sam Walton.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 12:58 AM

"If there isn't a Wal-Mart near you, move somewhere there is."

Paul Harvey "Good Day!"

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Old Guy
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 01:20 AM

The partnership between the Wal-Mart stores and The First Tee of Fort Smith was facilitated by Kelly Clark, local Wal-Mart store manager and The First Tee of Fort Smith board member. The ribbon cutting ceremony included the mayor of Fort Smith, other Wal-Mart store managers, and the district manager. The staff of The First Tee of Fort Smith and board members were on hand to accept the donation.

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Wal-Mart donations to Grenada School District: $1000 to GuES LEAP Memory Garden $1000 to Literacy Council.

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Wal-Mart donates $1m to research center
BEIJING -- Wal-Mart funded the creation of China's first academic institution devoted to the nation's rapidly expanding retail industry earlier this month with a $1 million donation to the prestigious Tsinghua University School of Economics and Management.

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Wal-mart donates $1250 to Rome NY Police Department
 Mayor James F. Brown announced today that the City of Rome Police Department has been awarded a grant of $1250 from Wal-Mart. Joining Mayor Brown for the announcement were Wal-Mart Community Involvement Coordinator Laura Mead, Public Safety Commissioner James Masucci and Rome Police Chief Gary DeMatteo.
  Mayor Brown said today, "We applaud Wal-Mart for their continued support and investment in our community. Public safety continues to be one of the highest priorties of this administration and we are grateful that Wal-Mart not only recognizes, but supports our efforts."

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With a donation of $4 million to Northwest Arkansas Community College on Tuesday, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. contributed one-quarter of the college's goal.

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The Walton Family Foundation currently gives out more than $100 million a year — a healthy chunk of it to opponents of public school education. The Wal-Mart Foundation donated more than $170 million in 2004, 90 percent of which went through local stores to small community and faith-based organizations.

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The Coon Rapids Wal-Mart Community Fund recently donated $1,000 in support of the Anoka County Library summer reading program. More than 11,500 children aged three to 18 are participating in this summer's program.

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New York Times: Wal-Mart Donates 35 Million for Conservation and Will Be Partner With Wildlife Group. The gift will be used to buy land or secure conservation easements, legal agreements limiting development on a piece of property to protect its ecological value.

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Wal-Mart donated $50000 on Thursday to sponsor the Fayetteville Public Library's summer reading programs.

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Wal-Mart Donates $300,000 to Assist Red Cross in Fire-Relief Efforts
In total, $300,000 was donated to area American Red Cross chapters from Wal-Mart and SAM'S CLUBS in Southern California to support fire-relief efforts.

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The Eau Claire Teen Institute, housed at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, received a $3000 donation from Wal-Mart.

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Spring break for more than 125 Morehead State University faculty, staff and students will be devoted to community service in Gulfport, Miss. To prepare for the trip, donations were accepted from local businesses. Wal-Mart of Morehead stepped up with a contribution of $1,000.

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Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. announced a $5 million, multi-year grant to The National Urban League, an organization devoted to empowering African Americans economically and socially, to support its workforce development initiatives.
The announcement was made at the organization's 2006 Annual Conference in Atlanta. The donation will assist job seekers and program participants in meeting the requirements and performance standards of 21st century employers.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 09:11 AM

Hmmmm - since Mal Wart is second world-wide in revenues only to the obscenely bloated Exxon/Mobil, I wonder what per cent of their profits all of Fat Old Woody's cut-and-paste largesse constitutes?

Like I said above- its John D. Rockefeller throwing dimes

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 09:15 AM

and for the simple-minded, it works for Mal Wart like it worked for John D.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 09:22 AM

I wasn't trying to make a general defense of Wal-Mart. I was simply highlighting something they were doing that should be done. The Goverment will not listen to the public or the scientific advice on this. Big business is the only option left...

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Old Guy
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 03:06 PM

Bunnahabhain:

Don't for get that her in Mudville if Walmart does it, it is evil.

If some jerk like Soros donates money, it is heroisim.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 03:40 PM

Now you've done it. Damning John D. with faint praise. He 'did' give away dimes as a publicity gesture, and it worked pretty well.

Starting from a fundamentalist Baptist foundation he extended his philanthropy in depth and breadth, was abolitionist in outlook and progressive in approach.

He also endowed The University of Chicago, and through his foundation Johns Hopkins, as well as being a philanthropist his entire professional life, well before he made the big time.

There's plenty of worse billionaires out there than John D.

Until you've actually studied the big picture, you haven't successfully made the case against Wal-Mart either.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Mudjack
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 03:58 PM

I hate to say anything good about Wally World, Oct and Nov 2005 while working Katrina Relief for the Corps of Engineers in Hancock County MS.The Waveland MS WalMart was wasted by the storm surge. But the first to set up tents in their parking lot and doing business ASAP. I needed a few items and thought I should check it out and see first hand if WM was gouging customers. They were there obiously to serve the community and NOT self serving as one might expect. I gained a great deal of respect for the Wal Mart people. They even had Garth Brooks there for his Wal Mart debut. There seemed to be more goodwill than money motivation. I saw the crowd at the tent store and wondered what all the HooHaa was about and read the paper to find that Garth had performed there free.
I just wished they would become more passionate to their workers.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 04:08 PM

Hey, Jack! Nice to hear from ya!! Hope you're doing fine.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Mudjack
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 06:49 PM

Thanks Amos, I think often of you since we are Virgo twins. Happy Birthday to you my good friend.
I am doing extremely well, I no longer am employed for the Company that GumpW is CEO. I retired May 31 this year. SO with that said and taking cut in take home pay. I am one happy go lucky guy. I figure the worst senario is wearing a blue vest and greeting the nice folks who shop at Wal-Mart.....
Mudjack

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 06:51 PM

No Robo, I'm just damning him- absolutiely no praise intended.

This is the guy thatwas a monopolist, was on the boards of countless monopolies including U.S. Steel, who invented the "trust", brought about the Ludlow Massacre & the murders during the Homestead Strike & countless other atrocities against the working man and the U.S. in general. His practice was to meet union organizers with bullets.

Plenty out there to educate yourself with; you might want to start with Henry Demarest Lloyd's "Wealth Against Commonwealth" (1894) & Ida Tarbell's "History of the Standard Oil Company" (1904) and work up the many studies and/or biographies - several done in the last deacde or so. The man was a real piece of shite. He also virtually invented the "spin doctor" with his hired propogandist Ivy Lee- a worthy predecessor to Karl Rove. He also prided himself on being a "christian". [ ! ]

No amount of "philanthrophy" could begin to wash the blood off John D. Rockefeller's hands.

But I see you've fallen for his (& Lee's) shell game lock, stock & barrel, so looks like it STILL works, and once again, you've made my point for me.

Thanks!

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 08:54 PM

P.S., Robo:

John D. was no kind of abolitionist. You're confusing him with his wife Laura Spelman's upbringing.

John D. did give some of his blood money to Black education, however,

All the sweatimg of his soul
Can't wash the blood from off his hands
For he smiles and shrugs his shoulders
At the murder of a man.

Here's to the land you've torn out the heart of.
Rockefeller, find yourself another country to be part of.

( with sincere apologies to Phil Ochs )

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 09:24 PM

Asda used sell nice medium priced goods with a little quality. After Mall Wart took it over, it sells shit made in China which not even the Chinese poor would TAKE for nothing. The grocery business is a joke. All the same tricks that mother Mall-Wart USA pulled, underweight dry goods with labels that lie, watered down beverages/milk etc, relabeled brand names with crap inside the package.

Best think you blighters could do is shop elsewhere ( like them smart Germans did ), that way Mall-Wart gets the message 'buggar off back to Stoolwater City, Backwards Co, Yeuchlahoma WannabeMexico AND stay there! ya smelly lying bunch of inbred hoaky honks'

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 02:18 AM

Stop beating around the bush. Say what you really mean.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 08:05 AM

As Mudjack says, I understand Walmart was in fact far more efficient--and quick--at helping the Katrina recovery effort--than the federal government was. Not that that's saying much.

And as Mudjack also observes, sure would be nice if they'd start to treat their own low-level employees decently.

Yeah, I know--dream on.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 02:21 PM

GUEST you took the words out of my mouth in responding to soreloser/head/fingers.

As to you who wish to trash John D., you sound like a bunch of sore losers, too.

If you want to get really sore at someone, a better target would be Henry Ford, unless you fell for his brand of anti-union/ anti-semitism. There's a world of difference between Henry Ford and John D. Rockefeller.

The world that gave us Ida Tarbell gave us Ivy Lee, and vice versa.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 03:03 PM

Old Guy, you building a resume in order to apply for a PR job with Wal Mart?:-)

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 04:49 PM

Does it really matter if you have control of U.K. waters?

If you want to save the fish, all water must be protected to encourage the sustainability of the fisheries. This is for the good of all of us. Its better to work toward a common goal than to splinter into national, short term economic policies.

Whats the point of protecting a national fishery if another country decides to drag the bottom of the sea for anything and everything just offshore?

I doubt if WalMart has anything but their own short-term profit in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 05:53 PM

As to you who wish to trash John D., you sound like a bunch of sore losers, too.

Facts = "Trashing"? You're starting to sound like Rove.

In your campaign to canonize one of those that Theodore Roosevelt (no bleeding heart leftie, he!) accurately labelled "Malefactors of great wealth" have you actually read Tarbell or Lloyd? Or a modern biography of o'l beatified John D.?

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 06:10 PM

Even Henry Ford had enough brains to pay his employees well:   $5.00 a day, which was damned high wages at the time. Other industrialists had a fit when he did this—thought he was setting a horrible precedent—but Ford was smart enough to want his employees to have enough money to be able to buy the cars they were building.

Gotta hand it to Hank F. He might have been a pluperfect SOB, but he was anything but stupid. Would that the same could be said for many of the CEOs kicking around now.

For several reasons, paying good wages is just good business.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Old Guy
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 11:25 PM

Kat: My post stems from the thread about how the Democrats are trying to demonize Walmart to get elected.

And then the Dems are aghast that Walmart contributes more to the Republican party than they donate to the Democratic party.

I wonder why? Maybe it's a shakedown.

Anyway it Walmart was so bad, no one would work there and no one would shop there which would solve the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 11:29 PM

Unless, of course, that's the only choice they have, which, in some communities, that is the case.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Old Guy
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 12:03 AM

So jobs are bad? Maybe it would be better if these people remained on welfare.

And are all Wallmarts in areas where there is no other place to work?

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Old Guy
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 12:10 AM

Yes DF, I agree the minimum wage should be $10 or more per hour. Trickle up economics will improve the economy.

And it does not target anybody or any company.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 03:26 AM

Re: John D. Read the Book Titan.

There were plenty of folks who did (and do) meet the requirements of the term 'malefactors of great wealth'. Many of them had no good side to counteract the bad. John D. most certainly contributed greatly to the progress of this nation and the well-being of its citizens. It was not, however, a good idea to go into business against him.

Subject: RE: BS: A good side of Wal-Mart?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 11:50 AM

h yes, Robo- you mean the book "Whitewash":

Titan: The Life of John D Rockefeller, Sr.

By Ron Chernow, Little Brown, 1998, £25
Reviewed by Mike Watkinson

THE US WRITER Mark Twain singled out the 1849 gold rush as 'the watershed event that sanctified a new money worship and debased the country's founding ideals'.

With John D Rockefeller it was nothing so shallow. As a young bookkeeper he was enthralled by a $4,000 banker's draft his employer had received. "I stared at it with open eyes and mouth", he recalled. "Many times during the day did I open the safe to gaze longingly at the note". The author of Titan comments: "In this story, one can almost feel the erotic charge that the banknote aroused in the boy".

Here we have a portrait of the man who through companies such as Standard Oil - dubbed 'The Octopus' - pioneered the forms capitalism adopted in the United States and beyond.

Unfortunately Chernow's book just chronicles the life of JDR. With the subject neither 'demonised or canonised', it pays scant attention to how this individual came to mesh with his times and become an instrument of history.

Rockefeller was lucky on a whole number of scores, firstly, not to get killed in the civil war. He hired a substitute to do his fighting - and presumably his dying. Then his basic start-up capital was handed to him direct by his father, a charlatan medicine-man who sold 'cancer remedies'.

The civil war made JDR. He amassed a fortune in Cleveland trading with the union, and was then perfectly placed to exploit the reconstruction boom, a period a banker described as one when it was "easy to grow rich... (with) economic marauders... too busy making money to be overly concerned with tradition".

In 1863 JRD developed 'a little side issue'- oil refining. Once again he was helped by the fact that oil was first pumped in Titusville, Pennsylvania. The field's compactness, plus JDR's geographical proximity, allowed him to exploit the domestic and export opportunities of kerosene as the heating-and-lighting fuel of the masses.

The by-product, petrol, which only overtook kerosene sales in 1910, was actually thrown into the river such that the waters of the Cuyahoga burst into flames whenever ships dropped hot coals overboard. Cleveland itself became so polluted that Rockefeller's effluent "tainted the beer and soured the milk".
        
Trotsky wrote that the worst thing about capitalism was not the obscene wealth and privileges of the rich, but that to retain them they plunge everyone else into periodic penury. JDR was the personification of this. While he ultimately donated millions to recipients and projects he deemed to be deserving, in the words of a Rockefeller critic Chernow quotes, this merely helped to 'fumigate his fortune'.

He took a harsh and uncompromising line against unions, and many working class families threatened unruly children with the 'bogeyman Rockefeller'. He was also prepared to bribe whoever it took, from state legislators to federal senators. He formed trusts, preferring 'co-operation' to deal with the 'chaotic conditions' engendered by the business cycle. Long before the oil-producers' cartel OPEC, he was restricting oil production, buying up and closing down rivals, or having companies compete for a contract, only to discover that the 'Octopus' owned both!

As Chernow comments, "after the civil war, the most significant revolt against free-market capitalism came not from reformers or zealous ideologues but from businessmen who couldn't control the maddening fluctuations of the market place... Rockefeller and other industrial captains conspired to kill off competitive capitalism in favour of a new monopoly capitalism". Rockefeller "sounded more like Karl Marx" when he rounded on the vagaries of the business cycle - naturally he wanted to see it tamed not for the general good but for his 'general good'.