BS: Pelosi

Subject: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,Isolep
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 06:21 PM

"Yesterday, the beauty and the genius of our democracy, the American people spoke with their votes, and they spoke for change and they spoke in support of a new direction for all Americans," Pelosi said, and she pledged "civility and bipartisanship" on behalf of her party, as well as "partnership … and not partisanship" with President Bush and the Republicans in Congress.

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=November&x=20061108154544esnamfuak0.4397241

What is it you Democrats hate about the Republicans? Bush's torture camps scattered around the world? The vaporization of habeas corpus? Trillions of dollars missing from the Pentagon, and no-bid contracts going to Halliburton? Well, Nancy Pelosi has no problem with these things. She's going to work in "partnership" with GWBush.

She needs to go. Now. You need to call your Representative and blast him or her for even THINKING about supporting Pelosi for Speaker of the House. The momentum from the election will be diverted into support for the Bush Plan if you don't do this. Pelosi has said she will not allow impeachment of Bush, and she will not allow investigations into his malfaesance. Screw her. You want blood? Pelosi won't do the blood-letting.

They say a call to your congressperson has the impact of 200 votes. Democrats need to get anti-Pelosi real fast or Bush and his gangsters are going to walk away from their crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 06:40 PM

The use of the anonymizer doesn't hide you. This is the same old bile that you have been spouting for years, and no one is listening. Posting under different names and ID's means nothing, Matriot. You are irrelevent.

It is fun to watch you flop around and keep posting this drivel over a number of threads. And more fun to watch serious folks just ignore you.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 06:42 PM

What really pisses you off is that you are afraid she will be successful. Just like it pisses you off that Hillary is successful. Heaven forbid that the Dems might actually start moving a progressive agenda. That would show you for the embittered and out of touch ass that you are.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 07:41 PM

Is this the progressive agenda?:

House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco has told her caucus that the idea of impeaching President Bush isn't in the cards if the party takes over the House in November's elections.

...Pelosi also restated her opposition to the idea of censuring Bush over his decision to invade Iraq in March 2003.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/13/MNG94IRGOO1.DTL

(CBS/AP) Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., attended a fundraiser Monday for her Senate re-election campaign hosted by conservative media mogul Rupert Murdoch....

Murdoch's media holdings include the New York Post and the Fox television network.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/18/politics/main1816866.shtml

Sure it steams me that Pelosi wants to let the gangsters in the White House get away with their crimes. What pisses YOU off is that you know this is most likely a hollow victory. The Democrats are going to carry on big business as usual and protect their fellow criminals, unless YOU make an effort now.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Barry Finn
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 07:53 PM

Pelosi can't ask for these things, she's now 3rd in line to be President. BUT a united front can, I believe that the tables will turn as the new year turns & we'll find the 2 lame ducks quacking their way towards the prepared barbi.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 07:56 PM

All I can say is that fir 66 years old, she is one hot lady... I'm going to enjoy watchin' her kick Bush's butt... Or just watchin' her...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 08:11 PM

The original poster is quite right. Mick, your irrational hatred for this poster appears to blind you to this fact.

I quote Stephen L. Rich from another thread:

"Remember that these are the same spineless characters who have, for the most part, refused to speak out or take action against the incrimental advance of facism by the neo-con. Whenever a rare voice, like that of Russ Feingold, has been heard the rest of the Democrats hid under the benches hoping that the voice would go away and stop calling attention to them.
    While they are promising a "new direction", the direction is most likely to be sideways."

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld etc need to be prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned. Impeachment isn't enough. These people are criminals.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 08:47 PM

No, Michaelr, that is not the answer. Unless you want to incite the middle class, the military, the conservatives, the independents, and who knows who else to revolt completely against the gain just made. The problem with this idiot that posts all this, is that she is long on criticisms, full of pompous self righteous opinion, and short on any solutions. I see these types all the time. While they are busy spouting this horseshit, they fail to admit that this is a nation of laws. It is a nation where we resolve differences politically. Go to the solution she proposes and you lose those that aren't as radically inclined as I, or you, might like. Lose them, and you lose the necessary support that you saw last night.

What really makes this person pissed is that she sees something that has the potential to lead to progress. She can't have that, because it makes her wrong.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 08:54 PM

Pelosi has taken impeachment "off the table." She has said that it won't happen.

And I hope that it doesn't, at least not yet. We do not need any more divisiveness in the US right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 09:05 PM

We should note that trillions of dollars have been missing at the pentagon on an ongoing basis since the 60s.

Before the sixties it was only billions of dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 09:14 PM

Nancy Pelosi is a shrewd politician. She has made her opinion of Bush known in no uncertain terms a number of times, but she knows that if she keeps talking like that, everything that has been gained yesterday will go down the tubes.

Impeaching Bush sounds like a lovely idea, but that would create one helluva mess and might not even be successful. But now, Bush has been chained to the post and is going to be very restricted in what he can do.

Much as she might want to consign Bush and Cheney to the pit (after all, if that were to successfully happen, she'd be president), she knows that would be a damned stupid and dangerous thing to try.

So she's too smart to try to satisfy the bloodlust of people like the nameless GUEST who started this thread.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 09:18 PM

Exactly, Don. And as President she'd very likely have even more against her, seeing her as a vindictive bitch.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MN Matriot here
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 09:24 PM

Tsk, tsk. Seems some clones are confused as to how many people are posting "anon" these days. Guess that happens when irrational hatred of a perfect stranger colors one's judgment. Twasn't I ranting above. I'm not out for blood, vengence, etc.

Although I'd be happy to see some Dem heads roll, starting with Mike Erlandson's. In what was once a true blue state, in an election with a Democratic sweep, the MN DFL party fielded yet ANOTHER dumb ass white guy for MN governor, and lost the farm AGAIN. Repubs hang on to the governor's seat in MN, thanks to the lame ass, same old same old "middle class moderate centrist" candidate.

MN sent the first Muslim and African American rep to the US House, elected it's first woman US senator, and had two of the other three constitutional offices go to women--every single one of them a Democrat.

But the governor's race? Same old, lame old.

Pelosi is the tired old face of the same old same old tired Republicrat party. No change there, and anyone who expects meaningful change as a result of moderate Repubs being swapped for conservative Republicrats is ah...sailing that same river in Egypt that Bushy Boy is swift boating down.

Time to change the holy water and the Kool Aid.

And maybe time for Big Mick to take a computer course on using the Firefox browser.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 09:31 PM

Why's everyone all bent outta shape here???

Look at it this way... Okay, beyond the fact that find the ol' gal a hottie there's more to this woman than looks...

How the heck did she get this far anyways???

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: 282RA
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 09:31 PM

Pelosi is a politician and she knows better than to shoot her mouth off about going after Bush. She knows as well as anyone that it will have to be done. Bush knows it too. But it will be done gradually. They have until January and they need to plan this thing out. But there is no way Pelosi is going to squelch investigations into the run-up to the war and the fraud and thievery it spawned--not to mention the torture, the warrantless wiretapping, etc. She's not stupid. Unlike some people.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 09:35 PM

Surely impeachment would really only become relevant once other inquiries into what has being going on had brought out evidence that Bush had done things that merited impeachment.   

Bring on the inquiries.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 09:39 PM

She can't talk about going after Bush before she rescues the troops.

Bobert, have you had your eyes checked recently? Pelosi looks like an anoxeric, over hill Barbie with a stick up her arse that makes her eyes pop out!

However, I did hear Britney is looking for a shoulder to cry on these days.

Just funnin' wit ya Bobert. I know you lust after those Dixie Chick types.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 10:09 PM

The new "leadership" of the Democratic party is saying crimes against humanity are fine. And they take millions from neo-con fascists like Murdoch. The best way to put the final stamp on yesterday's vote is to remove the Republicrat Pelosi from consideration as Speaker of the House. She is on the Bush team.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 10:17 PM

"Pelosi looks like an anoxeric, over hill Barbie with a stick up her arse that makes her eyes pop out!"

Yep. That's all you need to know about her (not that I agree with the description) to be opposed to her, I guess.

And there we have a fine example of "an informed electorate."

Thomas Jefferson must by spinning in his grave.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 10:21 PM

Not opposed to her Don, just not impressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 10:22 PM

Oh wait! I've something positive to say about the old girl!

She is definitely more liberal than Margaret Thatcher.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: pdq
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 10:24 PM

Election Year Rag ~ Steve Goodman


Come on babe, won't you take a chance,
Your papa's gonna show you a brand new dance,
You shuffle on down, now don't you be no drag
And do that Election Year Rag.

You take two steps to the left and two steps to the right,
Then just land in the middle and you hang on tight.
Come on down now, don't feel mad,
You can do that Election Year Rag.

Jump on that old bandwagon,
Here's what you gonna do:
Go down to the Precinct Captain's house this morning
And scarf up some lame duck stew.

Well, don't you cry, don't shed no tears,
You know it only comes around every four years,
And I am your dark horse and you're my nag,
Do that Election Year Rag.

If you feel like you need a score card,
Well, you really don't have to fuss.
You know the winner's always somebody else
And the loser is always us.

And it's shake it to the East, shake it to the West,
Hand me down my bullet-proof vest.
It's nobody's choice and it's anybody's guess
And do that Election -
There ain't no selection,
And do that Election Year Rag.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 10:27 PM

The world just isn't the same without Steve Goodman, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 10:31 PM

I heard Pelosi say that the Democratic Party and she have worked too hard for too long to have it turn out to be about the administration. She said the Democrats have a full work agenda and that is what they are going to work on.

That said, I have also heard others in the party say there will have to be investigations of various kinds, especially an investigation in how the country got into the mess it's in.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 10:32 PM

Well, okay... Different strokes for different folks... I still think she'sa looker but...

...nevermind all that... She is also a successsfull woman with a lot of balls an' she is gonna kink George Bush's arse back to the stone-age... She's gonna have him sayin' "yes mame, no mame, please don't look under that rock, mame", etc., etc....

And she knows she can get away with it and Bush does, too...

No, I wouldn't want to be Bush when the guard officially changes and Ms. Hottie reveals her "First 100 Hour Plan"... Yeah, gonna be 4 days from Hell for the poor boy...

And, well yeah, it won't be too long after that that this ol' hillbilly will be jumpin' on the Dems, I'm gonna enjoy the heck out of watchin' this anorexic granny whup Bush like his daddy should have done more of...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 10:39 PM

Well, if she's gonna get kinky w/Dubya's arse, I wanna see it on You Tube.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 11:34 PM

Has Pelosi mentioned repealing the PATRIOT Act? Is she going to repeal the Military Commissions Act and give Americans the right of habeas corpus again? What's this progressive agenda all of you are under the impression Pelosi has worked out? What exactly would a Pelosi-led House do, aside from let the Bush junta off the hook for crimes against humanity? The Bush criminals need to be tried and hung. Pelosi has said that's not an option. And the Rupert Murdoch-controlled press is shoving her in your face as the new Speaker of the House. A fascist media mogul is telling you liberals what to think. You're being conditioned to accept a do-nothing Representative as the new mouthpiece for the House Democrats. But we need a bulldog. Bush and his henchmen need to pay for what they've done, and the Democrats need to undo the bad legislation passed over the last 6 years. Pelosi won't do that. The country needs someone who will.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:03 AM

Guest,,, get a job or a life or something. You're telling me what's wrong. Ya got a little milk on your chin sonny go home & have a shave or better yet have the cat lick ya face.

"Rupert Murdoch-controlled press" may be trying to tell you something but there are many here that do more than just read a rag every so often.
Nancy won't push the Bush & Cheney impeachment issue yet, she can't. She's 3rd in line & steps into their shoes once they're out but it doesn't mean the issue won't, in due time, get pushed. I wouldn't mind her stepping in as Pres when the 2 ducks get tossed out. They haven't even stepped up to the plate yet & you're already bashing them, I guess you need things done yesterday. In due time, though it better not be a long time. 100 days isn't to long, Bush got 6 years. I like the woman, she's called Bush & company on their every move & she's let them know exactly what she thinks of them & she's not gonna waste time looking for blood but I'll bet the farm she'll get her pound of flesh from the bastards. I'd just as soon give them all life sentences too but I'm older now & I'm not looking for a revolution anymore. That's the last resort & the action of youth, I was there once & it's not a place I'd like to see again. But don't let anyone stop you, be my guest,,,huckleberry.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: 282RA
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:10 AM

>>Surely impeachment would really only become relevant once other inquiries into what has being going on had brought out evidence that Bush had done things that merited impeachment.<<

It may be better not to impeach him. They can hold it over his head as a kind of bargaining chip. Because if you impeach Bush, you make Cheney president and if you impeach him, you make Pelosi acting president and that's pretty radical in a time of war and the nation probably won't go for that without good reason. If Bush vetos too much popular legislation then impeachment procedings can begin without much outcry.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: 282RA
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:11 AM

>>The best way to put the final stamp on yesterday's vote is to remove the Republicrat Pelosi from consideration as Speaker of the House. She is on the Bush team.<<

Feel free. Let us know how it goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: 282RA
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:12 AM

>>She is definitely more liberal than Margaret Thatcher.<<

Who isn't?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: 282RA
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:15 AM

>>Has Pelosi mentioned repealing the PATRIOT Act? Is she going to repeal the Military Commissions Act and give Americans the right of habeas corpus again?<<

They probably won't simply repeal it. They might want to first show Americans why these things are not good ideas and then repeal it. Otherwise they come off as being vindictive and not caring what the people think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:20 AM

Or let the Supreme Court toss it out as illegal & against the Genevna Conventions, like the last time.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: 282RA
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:26 AM

That would work.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 01:21 AM

The voting yesterday was a MASSIVE landslide for the Democrats, but the machine tampering kept it down to a slight tilt of the scales. And you Democrats are going to be satisfied with that. And you won't care if the tyranny continues to build as long as "one of ours" is at the top of the pyramid. Impeachement is a charade, the Senate would never vote to convict, but it's a necessary charade because it'll uncover the TRUE depths of depravity in the Bush White House. Yet Democrats are going to lay back and let their day in the sun stretch into a week, then a month... No wonder Republicans despise you. You wield power like children. They know you won't question the bogus election results because you got you stinking bone from good ol' massuh. You have an opportunity to absolutely annihilate the most destructive criminal/political machine the US has ever produced, and you're going to choose to do nothing. Just trust massuh's appointed overseer and things'll be fine, won't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,I Vote For 282RA
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 02:55 AM

"Pelosi is a politician and she knows better than to shoot her mouth off about going after Bush. She knows as well as anyone that it will have to be done. Bush knows it too. But it will be done gradually. They have until January and they need to plan this thing out. But there is no way Pelosi is going to squelch investigations into the run-up to the war and the fraud and thievery it spawned--not to mention the torture, the warrantless wiretapping, etc. She's not stupid. Unlike some people."

Thanks 282 (can I call you by your first name?) for the predictably cogent response.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: ard mhacha
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 04:36 AM

Bush Cheney Rumsfeld and everyone else connected with this parcel of murderers should be tried as war criminals, they are responsible for the deaths of countless innocents.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:45 AM

The stage has already been set for Bush, et al to get away with their murderous agenda, because the Democrats taking power colluded with the them. Which is why there will be no impeachment proceedings against Bush. The Democrats are knee deep in blood, just like their Republican co-conspirators. Pelosi and the Democratic Leadership Council led faction of the US Congress colluded with the Bush administration, and are every bit as guilty of war crimes as the administration. They voted to approve the policies, the budgets, and never did their job of oversight while in opposition.

Anyone who thinks things will be different under the Democratic leadership is sadly deluded. I'm not saying this is a mean spirited, vengeful way, either. I'm really deeply troubled by it.

As some have pointed out, those with this pathological hatred of Bush are now ignoring the many voting problems that occurred, because Bush got spanked. Which does show how shallow they are, and how little they truly care about the good of the nation. They really don't give a damn if there are voting problems, so long as their team wins. It isn't about making every vote count to these Democrats, it's about power and loyalty, just like with the neo-cons.

There is a good reason why historically, those to the right and left of liberals, view liberals with such contempt. It's their venality, their lust for power, their hypocrisy, and mafioso type behavior they use to intimidate others in order to maintain "party loyalty". The reason why they so hate the Bush admin neo-cons, is because they are so much alike.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:50 AM

Like I've been sayin', GUEST is correct... The time for heavy liftin' for pregressives is upon us and we're gonna have to stay on top of the "new bosses" or it's gonna be "Animal Farm" all over...

Yeah, First and formost the Dems need to restore habeas corpes and right after that repeal the executives autority to wiretap without FISA oversight... These are two real biggie and I would implore anyone with even half a brain to write their new Congressperson today and voice one's concerns about these two affronts to our freedoms...

And guess what, progressives... The Dems might not be all that progeressive but I think they are a lot more approachable than the last batch of crook so...

...do it now just to let them know they ain't gonna get a pass...

You can write to them thru their various campaign committees...

I've allready writen Jim Webb...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Maryrrf
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:00 AM

I for one am very impressed with Pelosi. She's intelligent, well spoken, and I'm glad she's speaker of the house.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:05 AM

The Democrats weren't any more approachable during the Clinton administration, and Clinton never governed with majority rule. He co-opted the Republican agenda and made it his, which is what pissed off the Gingrich Republicans so badly we ended up with the abuse of oversight power by the opposition, that resulted in impeachment for a blow job.

These Democrats are the same people who gave us NAFTA, globalization, welfare reform that has resulted in the saddest abandonment of children in generations (I know, because I'm working with these kids every day), and all sorts of other problems that set the stage for political corruption on the grandest scale since the Gilded Age.

And we're supposed to have faith in these people?

No thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:56 AM

Oh, I am impressed! Two days after the election, and a couple months before transition, and the anonymous kibitzers already have worked out all the problems, and have their predictions and solutions available for the rest of us to swoon over. As my Daddy used to say, "If you're so damn smart, why ain't YOU in charge?"

Sheeesh! We've done what we could...we've tossed out a batch of the problems and set the stage for a real opportunity to slowly drag this country back to some semblance of sanity. Give it a CHANCE! Recovering from 10 years of Republican messes is not a simple, quick matter.....and we will never do it unless we work carefully, methodically, and pick a decent replacement for The Shrub in 2 years.

...and BTW...if I had the energy, I'd giggle hysterically at the idea of Nancy Pelosi being in league with the Bushites....

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,Massuh
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:32 PM

For internal circulation only:

The spin campaign seems to have worked. Some liberals even believe Peliosi is ALREADY Speaker of the House. Mr. Murdoch is highly pleased that his investment has not been in vain. According to projections based on past trends, the Democrats will now wallow in masturbatory self-satisfaction until well past the House vote on Pelosi. They will then support Pelosi as she turns their attention to non-issues. The repressive legislation put into place by our Bush operatives will remain in place, and Democrats will never know the difference. Another forcible insertion may be needed in the presidential race of 2008, and we're leaning towards Hillary Clinton at this time because she's onboard with our police state agenda 100%. Of course, if a Republican is still needed in that office, our voting machines will take care of it. Kudos on a job well done.

End of transmission.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 01:25 PM

It would be VERY interesting to know what these Guests are doing to effect change and what they've done in the past. I suspect they, without exception, live in darkened rooms in the equivalent of little holes in the ground and fire off their impotent bullets in anonymity and safety, seldom venturing into the real world.

As for me, for the first time in quite awhile I feel hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 01:37 PM

Yes Ebbie. I love that the person who is asking us to stand up and be counted - is afraid to use a name of their own. Things that make you go Hmmmmm......??

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 01:42 PM

The Mudcat equivalent of wearing a burkha...Anonymous, but very much in-your-face.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 01:47 PM

I don't know, Kevin - it's not my face they're addressing...

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 01:58 PM

Nice racist statement there McGrath--of course, not the first time for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 02:03 PM

Ebbie, I wouldn't worry. Your hope is all tangled up with the self-satisfaction and smugness of knowing your team won the playoffs.

How you feel has nothing to do with the reality of politics as usual in Washington. When Republicans win, it is politics as usual. When Democratics win, it's more of the same.

When independents shake things up, something might actually be changing. Other than that, nothing changes but the faces.

Even Peter Townsend knows that.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: kendall
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 02:17 PM

There will be no impeachment, and if there are any investigations they will only investigate the crimes that no democrats are mixed up in.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 03:12 PM

GUESTs, you are a collection of nincompoops. The woman hasn't taken office yet, and won't until after the first of the year. The whole bunch of you have no idea of what she plans or what she will or will not do, and yet you're attacking her on the basis of your particular penchant for anger and hatred. For Chissake, you'd all bitch and complain about a free lunch!!

I just heard an interview with Gore Vidal this morning. He was asked about impeaching Bush, and his response was that there is plenty of reason for impeaching him, but we shouldn't really worry all that much about Bush. "He's only the organ-grinder's monkey. If you want to impeach anyone, it should be the organ-grinder himself. And there is plenty of basis. Cheney is the champion of all war profiteers and he's managed to pour immense amounts of money into the coffers of his company, Halliburton, with no-bid contracts related to a war that he had a hand in starting. His holdings, which have increased hugely over the past couple of years, are being held in trust for him until he leaves office. That's blatant conflict of interest and it's illegal. He's guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors. That's an impeachable offense."

Various GUESTs would have us concentrate on vengeance to the exclusion of ignoring what really needs to be done.

I don't give a damn about vengeance. Yes, it would be very satisfying on a visceral level to hang all the miscreants by the thumbs. But one likes to maintain the illusion that we are modern and civilized. We no longer assassinate our political opponents as they did in Renaissance Italy. As long as we have them safely stashed out of the way where they can't do any further damage, let's get on with what needs to be done. Cleaning up the mess they've made.

History will consign them to the trash-pile.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 03:20 PM

Pelosi had lunch with Bush today and Howard Dean has said there will be no impeachment. The Democratic party is the party of individualism and progressiveness, so SHUT UP AND FOLLOW YOUR ORDERS.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 03:23 PM

Wait and see. I hope you like the flavor of crow.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 03:27 PM

As much as I would love to see impeachment hearings, it would be foolish. What the asshole behind the curtain fails to acknowledge is that unless she is advocating the overthrow of the democratic process of voting, what you see here is the first stages of the age of the independent voter. The Dems didn't do this because the country woke up one morning and decided to be Democrats. The base for the Dems and the base for the Repub's voted just as they always have. But increasingly in our society, we have a large group in the middle that classes itself as Independent with leanings one way or the other. But they will vote one the issues at the time. Radicalism is not their way, and the quickest way to get them to retreat to their "leanings" is to be seen as too far one way or the other. It has always been thus, but this group that ID's itself as "Independent" is growing. In politics the fact is that it is always a fight for the middle. And a significant group of these "middle" folks now call themselves Independents and vow to vote for the person not the party. A few years back when I was heavily involved in getting US Senator Debbie Stabenow elected to her first term in the US Senate, we knew that we had to have the moderate Republican and Independent women in the Livingston, Washtenaw, Jackson, and Ingham county areas of Michigan to win. That is the same dynamic that is going on now on a national basis. In many ways, the US political system will take on the aspects of a parliamentary system as this group gains. One will have to make coalitions to win and govern.

Pelosi is a very smart politician. She understood from the get go that we should not waste time on retribution. We have a window of about a year to show that we can begin the country on a path back to sanity. We have a very short time to show the world that we are still the country that once was admired. If we get bogged down in the partisan gridlock, in the interest of the intellectual purity of thought bullshit, we will just get beat in 2 years and we will have squandered a great opportunity.

Change will not come like a thunderbolt. It must come by showing that there is a better way, and making steady progress. We owe the Bushies a debt, as they have defined the issues very clearly for us, they have given us clear map to where we have to go. And we must take steady steps up that path.

Unless you are a bitter idiot who knows only failed rhetoric and offers only self righteous pap with no practical solutions.

Unreasonable hatred? Nope, don't even know this person. But I do know what she posts, and I do hate that.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 03:49 PM

You rationalizers. The mass murderers of 9-11, the creators of wars under false pretenses, can now be held accountable. This isn't about vengeance or payback, it's about justice. But suddenly the whiners in the "opposition" party who said they wanted justice are revealing they REALLY just wanted to be part of the power structure. What whores. Groveling at Massuh's feet when you could effect true change and achieve true justice. You people who criticized Bush's supporters for so long have now become backdoor Bush supporters yourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 03:58 PM

I've got a loaf of bread and tickets to the circus - so why should I care "guest"?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 04:01 PM

Seems to me, thou bitter, bitter Guest, that you don't know the first thing about successful political change. Pelosi does, and she chooses her steps and uses her powers wisely. Your kind of bitterness is too deep to be effective, or to ever find hope. I think we may see some interesting investigations showing up once January comes around. The WRONG thing for Pelosi to do is to appear too dangerous between now and then, provoking a huge backlash before she can accomplish some positive good. You choose to believe that this means such discoveries and their consequent actions will not occur, but I submit that choice is a matter of predisposition on your own part.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 04:30 PM

I think we need to bring back the Republicrats. This country has been ruled for too long by self-righteous demagogues, who serve only their own ideology and threat those who disagree as vermin. We need to elect representatives who will serve everyone, not just their allies. We need to elect people who can carefully craft compromises that will honestly serve the common good.

-Joe Offer, Radical Moderate-

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 04:40 PM

GUEST, that stuff you found out on the front lawn? Don't use it.

The Shinola is in the little round can.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 04:50 PM

LOL! Thanks, Don...

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 07:41 PM

"Pelosi and the Democratic Leadership Council led faction of the US Congress colluded with the Bush administration, and are every bit as guilty of war crimes as the administration. They voted to approve the policies, the budgets, and never did their job of oversight while in opposition.

Anyone who thinks things will be different under the Democratic leadership is sadly deluded. I'm not saying this is a mean spirited, vengeful way, either. I'm really deeply troubled by it."

And so am I. Give our Guest a break, and ask yourselves if you really believe that the career Dems in Washington do not occupy the same pockest as the career Repubs.

Don't get fooled again!

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: TIA
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:26 PM

A week or two ago, Sean Hannity said "some things are worth fighting and dying for, and keeping Nancy Pelosi from being Speaker of the House is one of those things." I notice that Pelosi is about to become speaker. He'd better die soon if he's a man of his word.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:39 PM

You know what sticks in Republican's craw about Pelosi.

she is a woman.

Today W stood beside her for an interview and reminded everyone 9 times that she was in fact a woman.

If you did the Daily show stunt of just showing W's references to Pelosi being a woman back to back in quick succesion, it would be hilarious.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:39 PM

To be ,Pelosi herself reminded everyone she was the first woman speaker in US history as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:02 PM

Can I get a show of hands on how many folks want Tom Delay back???

Didn't think so...

Give the woman a chance here, okay...

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:27 PM

For internal circulation only:

Use words like "empowerment" and "sexist" where possible when discussing Pelosi. Also use words like "change" and "progress" and variations thereof to allow Pelosi time to get in goose step with us. Don't worry, Abu Grahib will be forgotten. September 11 will be forgotten. The torching of the Constitution will be forgotten by the rabble. And pound on the word "vagina" over the next few days as we toss more of our now-useless gay operatives to the press. We are ramping up to the "inevitable woman president" phase of our plan, so get out there and "empower" Pelosi and her "vagina."

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: bobad
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:33 PM

Yikes.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:35 PM

Same bitter old shit. All critique, no solution. Go back to your cave at the symphony.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:42 PM

GUEST, GUEST, GUEST...

Come on, my friend...

Now is the time for progressives to demand of the Dems a little payback... They know they copuldn't have pulled this off without the progressives puttin' them over the top in close races...

So, start the letter writing now and be prepared to take to the streets...

First of all, habius corpes must be restored...

Second, warrentless wiertaps needs to be put back in tha hands of FISA...

Get these 2 an' the American people will see the other crap for waht it is...

But we have to ***push*** the Dems to make these two steps and hope that in doing them the Dems will ***get it***...

Chances of happening??? Not good, but it's the only game in town right now...

So I'd emplore every Mudcatter to send a letter to the campaign office" of ther new Dems coming in and the offices of the Dems holdin' their seats and get the Dems to act as an opposition party...

This is what we ***can*** and ***should*** be doing, right now!!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MN Monster
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:06 PM

Uh Bobert, there's more than one guest posting here, despite Big Ole Mickelf's protests to the contrary.

Frankly, I don't think any of this is nearly as simple and clear cut as people are making it out to be.

It is going to be nigh on impossible to get the Patriot Act overturned. Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, all a huge mess that will take at least a generation to recover from. Our standing in the world is shot, and will remain so as long as Bush/Cheney remain at the helm of the nation's foreign policy, and god only knows how far beyond their term. Don't forget that thing called "the foreign policy establishment" and the fact that just because the Repubs were thrown out of Congress, they haven't been thrown out of the think tanks, lobbyist offices, NGOs, defense contractors, etc. that drive the beast to it's appointments around the world.

And that doesn't even include the domestic agenda. Like if you thought veterans benefits sucked before, just wait until you see how fucking depressing it is now for returning vets. The way the entire tax system of the US has been tossed ass over teakettle, undermined our government services sector, saw our infrastructure crumble, education mandate after mandate go unfunded, the HMO/pharmaceutical monopolies...

Like Bono says--nothing changes on New Years Day. Because the sad, sorry state of affairs the US is in has been long in the making, it will be very long in the healing and mending department.

I'd like to share your optimism and enthusiasm Bobert, but for me, it just isn't there. No joy for me in the election, really, or for most independents like me.

People here do love to paint me as a bombthrower, monster, etc. because I won't play by their true blue party rules, and I speak the truth about the Democrats being knee deep in blood, just like the Republicans. That isn't a radical thing to say in a group of independent, non-affiliated voters. But they are fighting words when spoken to Democrats.

C'est la guerre.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:06 PM

Cave at the symphony. Very good. Subdued allusion to vagina. A musical one at that. Excellent. Keep up the good work.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: 282RA
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:08 PM

>>For internal circulation only:

Use words like "empowerment" and "sexist" where possible when discussing Pelosi. Also use words like "change" and "progress" and variations thereof to allow Pelosi time to get in goose step with us. Don't worry, Abu Grahib will be forgotten. September 11 will be forgotten. The torching of the Constitution will be forgotten by the rabble. And pound on the word "vagina" over the next few days as we toss more of our now-useless gay operatives to the press. We are ramping up to the "inevitable woman president" phase of our plan, so get out there and "empower" Pelosi and her "vagina."<<

Don't you guys love to see GUEST so pissed off? God, that's been a long time in coming. All the years of that smug gloating and now the petulant whining. Now you know how we've felt for the past 12 years, GUEST. How do you like it? And you know how it feels to be the winner? No, you don't! Nyuk nyuk nyuk!

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MN Monster
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:12 PM

Actually, I've never voted for a winning presidential candidate in my life, so I'm pretty damn accustomed to being on the losing side of the elections.

In fact, the first national candidate I ever voted for who actually got into office was Paul Wellstone. That was in 1992, I think. Started voting in the Nixon era.

I've been a political independent my whole life, and have never had any affiliation with either party, so I'm thinking I'd have a pretty tough time feeling smug and gloating over any election.

There was one thing that cheered me up a bit, and that was the city of Minneapolis approved IRV! Rock on!

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:18 PM

Yep, 282RA, I do. She thinks that because she uses an anonymizer (new toy and I get a kick out of it, but it isn't near as effective as she thinks) that she isn't recognizable.

Just to correct something that this person said, it isn't because she doesn't play by the rules. It's because she doesn't offer anything. A typical smartass who only knows how to criticize.

And yes, I do know there is more than one GUEST.   I also know when you are just using your old multiple identity thing. Don't you ever get tired of it?

Pelosi will make real progress. I hope she does it in a measured way which yield real results. The reason that scares you so is because your stock in trade depends on these folks failing. Not because you have a better way, because you have no ideas. But you would rather be right than see a safer world. And you are disgusting for that.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,Nameless and loving it
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:34 PM

Good work, fellow Democrats. We won, so now it's okay for U.S. soldiers to rape children during "questioning." That's a cornerstone of the Bush approach, but we can't rock the boat because now we have an oar in the water. So ix-nay on the ape-ray. And all that other...unpleasantness. DON'T talk about the lost Bill of Rights, the unprovoked wars, etc. WE'RE in power now, and we can make lemonade out of those lemons.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:37 PM

Oh Mick, take yer friggin' sock puppets and go play by the freeway.

No one has any idea how to get the fuck out of Iraq. Or how to undo the damage that has been done. All we ever see on this forum is regurgitated crap that somebody saw on tv, read in their paper, heard on talk radio, or whatever.

Perpetually recycled platitudes and cliches aren't new ideas. And that is all you ever offer around here. Same old shit whether you are tilting at guest windmills or the other team.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:40 PM

And let's see..;...... the last time you came up with anything was ...... that's right, ....... never. And nice job posting as two people.

No more arguing with you. It is like arguing with Shambles. You have no relevance.

Go get 'em, Nancy.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:47 PM

Oh Jesus Mick, I'm just crushed you don't like me.

And what, you think the Pelosi comment is supposed to get up my nose or something? Dude, you think much too highly of your ability to impress others.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: mg
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:05 AM

I am sure she means well but she just reminds me of a denture cream commercial. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:06 AM

...a version of the ad hominem fallacy ...."you don't have any valid points because you don't have a name" ...and this usually coming from someone with a handle along the lines of "pifflepuff" or some such ridiculousness...

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:25 AM

Well, fortunately, there weren't many in the country who were as proud as of their record of virtually never backing a winning candidate--MN Monster can revel in this accomplishment.

Most people this time around seem to have decided that 6 years of 1-party Bushite rule wasn't really working out that well---and to do something about it than lob verbal grenades--they actually voted to toss out said Bushites.

And it sure is too bad that co-operation, which is what Nancy et al. seem to have in mind--not point-scoring-----is a foreign concept for the Monster.

Scorched earth is just not a good policy in government--perhaps the Monster should move to Iraq--it seems to be a popular idea over there.

Let us know how it goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: fumblefingers
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:26 AM

Without wanting to burst any of the bubbles here, The Democrats gained an average number of seats for a 6th year election. That's not a mandate. And, just in case you've forgotten, Nancy Pelosi is a Representative from a single Congressional district in San Fransissyco. George Bush is still the President of the United States and the Democrats do not have enough votes in either the House or the Senate to override a presidential veto.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:31 AM

As I've said before, there are only 2 possibilities--gridlock or co-operation. And it seems Nancy plans to opt for the latter. Good choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:34 AM

And on certain issues, the Democrats will have enough votes to override a veto---minimum wage hike is the obvious candidate--they can peel off enough Republicans to pass it, even if Bush were to veto it---which he likely wouldn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 01:56 AM

Regarding the reference to Tom Delay above, one of Delay's last actions was to redraw the lines of the congressional district of Ron Paul. Paul is the most conservative member of congress, and this is the third election in which his own Republican party has tried to defeat him. He seemed sure to lose this time, until word got out that the NRA (National Rifle Assoc) was endorsing his Democratic opponent. The NRA rated the contender an A+ and Paul a B. But the Dem is a raving gun-grabber, and Ron Paul has the only perfect voting record in congress on gun rights. He's ALWAYS voted for our constitutional right to own firearms. And yet his own party, and the NRA, tried to defeat him. Things aren't what they seem, people. The Republicans try to defeat their best, and the NRA is in on the plan to disarm America. Fortunately Paul won by a 2 to 1 margin. He's one of the sanest minds in congress and went on record against Bush years ago with his "Neo-conned" speech. It's on the internet. Look it up and read it. And remember a Republican wrote it.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 03:00 AM

IMO, it is absolutely necessary that there be congressional inquiries into the Iraq War, 9/11, Halliburton's escapades in Iraq with taxpayers money, Bush's involvement, Cheney's involvement, etc. If those inquiries indicate that impeachment is in order, then impeach the bastards. If there are NO inquiries, then America has gained nothing. It has traded one despicable Congress led by Republicans to another despicable Congress led by Democrats. Pelosi has no damned right at all to say that impeachment is 'not on the table'. Fuck her and that attitude. If there is reason to impeach Bush and Cheney for wrong doing, then they HAVE to be impeached. What kinda shit is it to say 'impeachment is not on the table'? Her political career is so important that she's willing to ignore six years of Washington corruption? Really? What crap. And what a brave new world. The elections will have traded one set of bastards for another set of bastards. Y'all go be back to square one.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 06:15 AM

With you, Peace. If only to learn from the past. But it must not be done vengefully, and inquiries should include all allegations of misdemeanours, irrespective of the parties involved.

This isn't/shouldn't be about revenge or tit-for-tat, otherwise one descends into the centuries-long vendettas of places like the Balkans or the Middle East.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: ard mhacha
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 07:50 AM

Well written Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 08:01 AM

Impeachment ain't gonna happen, though I certainly agree w/Peace that it should.

"This isn't/shouldn't be about revenge or tit-for-tat, otherwise one descends into the centuries-long vendettas of places like the Balkans or the Middle East."

Thnak you.

I've been saying this since 2000 here in this forum, only to be villified by the true blue Dems that I'm a nasty Nader spoiler, and how god damn dare I?

So who are the radicals, really? The rabid Repubs or the rabid Republicrats?

The true blue Dems here keep claiming they are "moderates" and "centrists" but they are no such thing. They are the very people driving this Balkanization of the US along ideological political party lines.

And like all ideologues who believe so strongly in their own propaganda, they believe themselves to be most righteous, and "the enemy"--their political opposition--to be pure evil.

This is the stuff that makes for civil war. Any idiot who doesn't see that isn't just part of the problem, they ARE the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 08:08 AM

Yo, Brucie... Settle down, my friend...

Pelosi would love to move toward empeachment but empeachment, like a war, needs to be sold... And sold slowly... I think she is playin' smart... Get some feel-good legislation on the books so that the American people start feeling better about the performance of Congress and then slowly let the investigations unravel and as the facts of the corru[ption comes to light and the public better understands fully how corrupt the Bush folks have been (and continue to be) stand back with that surprised look on her face and proclaim...

..."Danged, I didn't realize these folks were this corrupt. Maybe we need to take this a little further down the road..."

But without positive approval ratings for Congress, empeachement is off the table...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 09:31 AM

Screw the feelgood legislation. Repeal the PATRIOT Act. It created the "crime" of "domestic terrorism." That crime is "breaking a law of the United States or of any state." Then came the other so-called laws based on the new crime of domestic terrorism, and now, you can be disappeared in a heartbeat, tortured to death, and the same thing will happen to any reporter who reports on it. So screw the new legislation and the go-slow attitude. The Democrats either reverse what's been done or they become part of the torturing establishment. And Pelosi has said she's going to "work with" Bush. This is a simple, simple issue. Someone other than Pelosi needs to be in charge of the House Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 10:56 AM

Ah yes...

If only the pessimistic negative self aggrandization of purely critical thought had been more effective over the last two thousand years... maybe we wouldn't be in the fix we're in today.

Guest... you may have carried this 'be wise as a serpent' thing well past the point of obsurdity.

antidisestablishmentarianism is the (second) longest word... but in the final analysis, it's purely reactionary and disapprovingly nostalgic... kina like slash and burn forest maintenance.

Be smart. Be nice.
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:16 AM

And when you launch this vengeful attack, the Repubs play the obstructionists and hold things up until the next election, scare the shit out of the Middle voters and they reinstate the neocons, where will you be? Should we then take up arms to enforce our wills? Let things come in a way that shows them a better path. Do the scorched earth policy, as appealing as it seems, and you will be in no man's land again.

There are some who post here that would like to see that.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:27 AM

Actually, yes, I do think that we need to consider taking up arms against the plutocracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:38 AM

Richard, where do you live? Haven't I heard you speak against private ownership of guns? Correct me if I am wrong.

It's easy to talk about picking up arms. You ready?

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 01:08 PM

With respect, where do YOU live, Mick? Americans HAVE taken up arms. We're bristling with them, and I think we've shown an impressive amount of restraint in not using them against an abusive govt. The Second Amendment guarantees our natural-born right to own arms, and the framers of the Constitution put that Amendment in there so we could protect ourselves against government. Our guns are to be used not for hunting or target shooting, but to keep government honest. That's why the govt tries to disarm us at every opportunity.

The backlash against the Republican/Democrat war & anti-rights agenda was ENORMOUS last Tuesday, but the rigged vote counting trimmed it down to a small power shift. I'm a far-right conservative and I'm FURIOUS with what the Bush family has done to America. And I voted against their agenda down the line. So did MILLIONS OF OTHER REPUBLICANS. So I was pleased to see the changes, but now, the new people are turning out to be the same as the old. We need to CLEAN HOUSE. Not out of a sense of vengeance, but because it has to be done to save our constitutional republic. Being satisfied with a few R's changing to D's won't achieve anything. All of us need to put pressure on the new congress to move ahead with criminal indictments, impeachments & investigations.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 01:54 PM

Mick is right. Nancy et al. have to prove they are interested in co-operation, not gridlock--or they will be out on their ears in 2008.

Impeachment talk may make you feel good--but it won't happen. To impeach and convict you need quite a bit of Republican co-operation--which won't be there. And even with the recent attack of good sense on the part of the US voting public, the balance in the Senate is only 51-49. Not enough to impeach and convict.

And the US public is not interested in vindictive behavior on the part of newly resurgent Democrats--they'd rather get some problems solved.

However, as I've pointed out elsewhere, in-depth investigations can proceed--as for instance on the question of just how the propaganda campaign that got us into the Iraq war worked. And Cheney, for instance, is in that up to his neck--or above.

Specifically we need an inquiry into the contradictions between what the Bush regime was telling the country and what the intelligence community knew at the time.

This would be very instructive--and entertaining.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 02:02 PM

And by following that reasonable path, you very likely may turn up data that changes the public mind and puts them into the frame of mind for impeachment. But it cannot come off as a witch hunt.

That is the problem with these nut cases. They operate from a place that says only they have the answers, instead of realizing that they have a view and have to convince others to come along. All criticism, no ideas.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 02:07 PM

Let's repeat Don Firth's post.


I just heard an interview with Gore Vidal this morning. He was asked about impeaching Bush, and his response was that there is plenty of reason for impeaching him, but we shouldn't really worry all that much about Bush. "He's only the organ-grinder's monkey. If you want to impeach anyone, it should be the organ-grinder himself. And there is plenty of basis. Cheney is the champion of all war profiteers and he's managed to pour immense amounts of money into the coffers of his company, Halliburton, with no-bid contracts related to a war that he had a hand in starting. His holdings, which have increased hugely over the past couple of years, are being held in trust for him until he leaves office. That's blatant conflict of interest and it's illegal. He's guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors. That's an impeachable offense."

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 02:15 PM

So investigate all those aspects. But don't call it an impeachment campaign. Call it gathering facts. And if those assertions pan out, as Mick says it may emerge that Cheney should be impeached, convicted, and removed. And by then, if you convince the general public of this, as Mick also says, there may be enough pressure to be able to impeach and convict.

But when the Republicans impeached Clinton they did themselves no favor. They realize that now.

If you can't both impeach AND CONVICT, you've wasted your time, taxpayers' money--and alienated the electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 02:22 PM

Impeachment may well be off the table, right now, as an emotional backlash that would turn on every AA gun the right has to bring to bear. When Pelosi is the speaker in fact, and a few more strings get pulled, it may well become a graceful inevitability. You can be dramatic or you can be effective, and Madam Speaker has always opted for the latter. But the truth, and the karma, is not going to go away.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 03:07 PM

I would like to see both Bush and Cheney impeached. Hell, I would like to see them tried for war crimes!   And toss in Rumsfeld and a couple of others for good measure!

BUT—

If that's what Pelosi and the newly elected Democratic congress goes for right off the bat, Washington, D. C. will turn into a political battleground, there will be divisiveness till hell won't have it, and absolutely nothing that NEEDS to get done will actually GET done!! And you know what? If that happens, the people here who are screaming the loudest for scalps will be the first to blame the Democrats!

I want to see the war in Iraq come to a swift and, hopefully, orderly end and the troops brought home. I want to see the Patriot Act repealed and habeas corpus restored. I want to see a substantial raise in the minimum wage. I want to see steps taken to establish a national health care system. I want to see steps taken to preserve the quickly deteriorating environment (and Barbara Boxer will be replacing the current obstructionist Republican, James Inhofe, who heads the environmental protection committee—in fact Democrats will be replacing several Republican committee heads, and that's nothing to sneeze at!). I would like to see a lot of things that the Democrats have stated are on their agenda.

But NONE of that will ever happen if we get embroiled in an impeachment battle right from the start.

When the building is on fire, you put out the fire first. Then you grab the arsonists and toss them into the slammer!

Fer Crissake, people, get your priorities straight!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 03:14 PM

Thank you, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 03:36 PM

Well, amongst you patriots there should have been ONE of you willing to give that SOB a blowjob!

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 04:11 PM

After all, "Clinton got a blow job!" words an music by Eric Schwartz

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 04:15 PM

Bravo Brucie!! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 04:24 PM

Been following this thread and most people seem to think that establishing a Democrat administration is the most important item on the table.
They are wrong. Some one must swing for Iraq both in the US and UK.
Without some sort of justice we are without credibility.
And we must make sure that this greatest political crime in my lifetime is never repeated......That is the most important thing....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 04:33 PM

Clinton Got a Blowjob by Eric Schwartz


George Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction
Clinton got a blowjob
Even if it was the deception and not the suction
Clinton got a blowjob

What's worse...starting a war
Or keeping your Cohibas in a human humidor.
Who got impeached? And what for?
Oh right...Clinton got a blowjob

George Bush vacationed while New Orleans drowned
Clinton got a blowjob.
Sat in a classroom with the towers falling down
Clinton got a blowjob

He fucked up F.E.M.A
Which fucked up Katrina
Not to mention the Conventions of Geneva
With twenty-four civilians murdered in Haditha
Clinton got a blowjob

How can a man without a brain
Cause a nation so much pain
Cause a world to feel such hate
For these so-called United States
And how could the congress help but act
In the face of every fact I have presented here
The comparison couldn't be more clear

Bush authorized leaks of classified information
Clinton Got A Blowjob
To make the case for attacking sovereign nation
Clinton Got A Blowjob

Guantanamo, Downing Street, electro-shock on Iraqi feet
Makes that blue dress seem so sweet
Clinton got a blowjob?

Bush funds sex ed that says that condoms don't work.
Clinton got a blowjob.
If they didn't, both your daughters would be pregnant, you jerk
Clinton got a blowjob.

Bush lied about his bust for driving drunk
Clinton's biggest crime was having spunk
And for choosing a statue less than statuesque
And setting her on display under the oval office desk

Stem-Cell Research, Abstinence, Global Warming, Missile Defense,
Goin' AWOL from the National Guard, find some some more, it' not that hard.
Jack Abramoff, Valerie Plame, Al Qaeda's links to Saddam Hussein
Abu Ghraib, Kenneth Lay, our record deficit today
You Wiretapping Info-Leaking-Waterboarding-Power-hoarding
Rights-destroying Christ-Deploying Load of Scat in a Stetson Hat

I'll do my part, I'll play the pawn
If that what it takes to get you gone
I'm my Knees, Dubya, BRING IT ON.
Here's your fucking Blowjob

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 04:43 PM

Lovely icy fury ....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 05:20 PM

"make sure this greatest political crime in my lifetime is not repeated"---that's exactly what would be accomplished by laying bare--for the whole US public to see-- the despicable propaganda campaign the Bush regime engaged in to get the US into the Iraq war. Which is what I suggested.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 06:25 PM

Now Conyers has said there will be no impeachment. Conyers, Kucinich and others will head powerful committees that can investigate whatever they damn well please, but Conyers just caved in. Democrats are going back on their promises right and left. Why?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 06:26 PM

Maybe Bush has implied he'd activate the Military and take the US by force. I wouldn't put it past him.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 06:28 PM

A bit of patience is necessary. Let's see what is found during these investigations.   It's obvious that leaping to conclusions is the favorite Olympic sport around here.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 06:32 PM

One of them, Ron. However, six years of lies, corruption and illegal activity, then the new 'rulers' enter to say, 'impeachment is not on the table'. What the hell IS on the table then?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 06:39 PM

"Impeachment" is a red-flag word. As Mick says, it may yet come to that--but it has to be a wave of anger from the voting public (not the blogging public).--and not just the public left of center. I can see an investigation of the propaganda campaign possibly having the desired effect. But we'll have to see.

Otherwise, as I said, you waste time and money--and alienate the people whose problems are not being attended to.   Which at this point is the majority.

You need an ironclad case--for conviction, not just impeachment.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 06:45 PM

True. But that remark by Pelosi (and now Conyers) really pissed me off. However, the point you and many other 'cooler' heads have made is a good one. The situation still pisses me off, though, said he as he left muttering . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 06:53 PM

Ya, I agree Ron, it may be a red flag word but the republicans had no problems waving it at the drop of a hat. Just like they waved all those other flags & called us all devils at the wispher of desent. I would like to see them burn sooner rather than latter but I'll bide my time for the bettering of the nation & theright timing.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 07:00 PM

John Conyers is a respected, and decidedly left of center Congressman. He is known as a wise man. He has been in the trenches for a lot of years, and has the scars to prove it. If a fight was the smart thing to do, his history shows he would do so at the drop of a hat. There is absolutely no love lost between him and the Bushies........none.....not one speck. Smart folks would take this as a sign that there is a well thought out plan in place here.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 07:01 PM

Cheney took command of NORAD and rammed planes into the WTC. False claims of WMDs led to two wars. Trillions missing in govt money. The Constitution invalidated. Nothing to investigate?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 07:33 PM

"Donkeys led by donkeys".

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 07:58 PM

There's the old joke about the man whose job in the circus is to go round after the elephants picking up the massive quantities of crap they've dropped along the way. When asked why he didn't get a new job he said "What? And give up show business?"

It somehow seems appropriate now. A relevant elephant you could say.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 09:15 PM

For internal circulation only:

Good work. We're rekindling memories of Bill Clinton's penis among the Democrats. They now want to savor what they perceive as "payback." Feed a few more fagots to the fire (check your code book for the names of those who are next to go) and contrast the resulting smoky stench with the purity of the new breeze wafting off Pelosi's vagina. Or something like that. Hell, I don't get paid to write this crap. Get the hacks to work on it while the limp-wrists are buying. They'll be tuning back in to Oprah next week and we don't want them asking questions for a couple of years.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 09:19 PM

Without internal circulation, the penis thing will never come up anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:02 PM

Of course there is a Democratic plan. Pelosi, Schumer & Dean ran a very smart midterm campaign.

Problem is, the plan ain't about how to get us out of Iraq, or raising taxes to pay to repair for the gutting of our government services at the hands of the Republicans.

The Democratic plan is how to keep Democrats in power, build an even bigger majority in 2008, and take the White House.

Only true blue Democrats believe in this plan.

That plan actually gives most the rest of the country nightmares.

Like I said, I got no joy from this election. For the Democrats, it's about regaining power, not about responsive and responsible governance. It's about winning, and killing the opposition, and demonizing dissent and those whom are deemed as disloyal.

That's the fucking plan.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: bobad
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:14 PM

"The Democratic plan is how to keep Democrats in power, build an even bigger majority in 2008, and take the White House."

Jaysus what a plan, why did no one ever think of that before.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:19 PM

Yes, amassing power for power's sake. Another really original idea from the True Blue Democratic Party (tm).

There are plenty of perks once yer in, ya know.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:39 PM

I'm certainly impressed by all the punditry being displayed here. A great deal of Monday morning quarterbacking going on and the game hasn't even started yet.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: number 6
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 12:01 AM

Pelosi .. I dunno, only time will tell what she can deliver.

But ... ya gotta admit the 'ol gal is certainly better looking than Hastert

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 09:19 AM

And how sexist is it that the main topic of discussing her qualifications are her looks?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 11:55 AM

The question: is do you want: no more pre-emptive wars on the whim of the Executive, no more assaults on the environment, e.g. pillaging the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, (etc,), a rise in the minimum wage, fuel requirement standards, etc, etc,--or do you want to make the brilliant observation that Pelosi is not perfect--and therefore not up to your standards?

It's fortunate that the voting public appears more sensible than some of our more strident anonymous posters.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 12:20 PM

Sorry Ron, but it is the True Blue faction that is blind.

We independents and non-partisans want to change the two party system because it is hopelessly corrupted.

All The True Blues have to offer is incremental baby steps.

"The environment" for instance. It's about a whole lot more than just the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and Americans know that.

Which is why animal rights ballot issues passed again this year. Because we need to regulate agribusiness, which is not only inhumane to animals, but it's appalling, inhumane practices also pollute our environment.

But then, you've been spouting the True Blue party line for so long, you didn't know that citizens all over the US are working around partisan apoligists like yourself, in order to actually get things done that need doing.

Which is why the duopolists are now trying to limit the powers of citizen initiatives and referendums.

Citizens are working around politics as usual, by working around BOTH parties.

You guys are the dinosaurs. Non-partisan indies are the future of democracy, because we actually believe in it. The True Blues, on the other hand, don't believe in democratic governance, but iron rule by their team. They believe in autocratic governance by the lesser of two evils. Which is why non-partisan political independents think so little of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 12:28 PM

Guest--get a name or a handle. Otherwise (this is a recording)---your postings are worthless--and I hope we will all treat them as such. I certainly will.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 12:32 PM

No, my posts aren't worthless because they are anonymous. That's just the pathetic little response you True Blues always come up with when you can't make a legitimate argument on your on behalf. So you bash the anon messenger, instead.

If my posts were worthless, no one would ever respond to them. And we both know that just isn't the case now, don't we Ronnie boy?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 12:40 PM

QED

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 12:48 PM

God, what a loser you are. Even after I call you out on being so fucking lame, you still have to try and get the last word in.

YOU DID IT AGAIN RON. You proved my point. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 03:13 PM

From: Richard Bridge - PM
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:27 AM

Actually, yes, I do think that we need to consider taking up arms against the plutocracy.

I found this to be an odd post from a European. Advocating taking up arms, when usually they are opposed and critical of our gun laws. The GUEST who haunts this thread criticized me for asking Richard where he was from. I knew when I asked what the answer was, and I think that Richard realized what he was stepping into because he hasn't been back since. GUEST also seemed to suggest that they were in favor of armed response, at least that was the implication. I found that odd because this same person seems to post on both sides of the argument. Usually these loudmouths that advocate, or act like they are advocating, are all mouth. It is easy to advocate taking up arms, but these folks won't be the ones doing it.

Facts are that our system is intact, it is politically driven (meaning that one is accountable to the electorate), and the Democrats (who have, after all, been in opposition on many issues) have no time to waste on hair brained ideas that would alienate the voters. There is an election in less than two years. Make the right moves, as it appears Pelosi is doing, show statesmanship and strong leadership, and we can continue to capitalize on these opening moves. Get dumb, act strident, alienate the voters who voted against Bush's and the Republican radicals, and in less than two years we will be back to where we were. Too many people, too many children, in countries around the world as well as here in the States, are counting on us to do the right thing. There is hope again in the rejection of this madman's foreign policy.

I have said in other threads over the last 5 years that the thing Bush will be judged harshest for in years to come will be his squandering of the goodwill and chance for worldwide unity in the wake of the 9/11 attack. When one looks at the world today, we can see people around the world hoping and wishing us good luck in re-establishing the trust. This is much larger than Democrat/Republican. This is about the life or death of the great experiment launched over 225 years ago. This isn't about just our childrens hope, it is about all childrens hope. It is about keeping the golden lamp lit.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 03:56 PM

Impeachment has to be off the table for now. There are going to be investigations and, if enough can be found to impeach Bush, viola! Impeachment will be on the table. If the dems were to say it is on the table right now, it looks like they're just out to get Bush and you can be certain their opponents will play it up that way.

Conyers already dug up the dirt, now let the evidence be produced and let it speak for itself. When it does, the people will listen and if there is enough to hang on Bush, they will have to hang it and not even the pubs in the Senate will be able to do anything other than vote for impeachment.

But right now, saying it's off the table is like saying he's innocent until proven guilty. I think it was a perfectly reasonable thing for Pelosi to say. Let us see the evidence first, then we'll get Bush when the evidence tells us to--then it's not vindictiveness but a matter of law.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: number 6
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 04:04 PM

Guest ... I expected a post accusing me of being sexist on my comment about Pelosi ... but I feel Pelosi is very political and will surround herself with a clique of chosen political peeple who have a common political power agenda ... like most politicians (regardless of being Democrat or Republican) who reach a certain rank ... politicans who climb to their own aspirations forgetting or simply ignoring the democratric purpose of their elected seat ... so 6 months to a year from now when CNN's Lou Dobbs is ranting (quit rightfully so) on questioning who in Washington is representing or looking out for the interest of the citizens of the U.S. I would rather see Pelosi's face on TV, babbling away in her political rhetoric than watching Hastert's fat sweaty face babbling in his political rhetoric.

But .... I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, regardless of political and philosophical beliefs

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 06:29 PM

It's about winning, and killing the opposition, and demonizing dissent and those whom are deemed as disloyal.

Let me see if I have this right: the Dems are going to adopt the Republican agenda & M.O. of the last 12 years?

I think not.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 11:45 PM

Our hard-charging GUEST tends to jump to conclusions on just about all phases of existence. And he or she seems to love epithets. One of our more Right-leaning folks is fond of calling those who disagree with him "crybaby liberals." GUEST seems to be groping for similar labels, and is currently working the appellation "you True Blues," making a lot of unfounded assumptions about people he or she doesn't know.    Such labels are interesting in that they give a clue as to the mind-set of the person who is fond of using them. It allows him or her to stuff people he (or she) disagrees with into convenient, stereotyped pigeon-holes, thus dismissing anything they have to say. It saves a great deal of thinking.

Grab this, GUEST:   I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Democratic Party. I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of any political party. You assume I am a Democrat, and you are wrong. And you're just as wrong about a lot of people here.

As an independent (not a member of "the Independent Party," I am truly independent), I can communicate meaningfully with all political parties, and since they're all courting independent voters, they tend to listen to them, often more closely than to their own confirmed members. I think a lot of the smarter, more politically astute people here are doing exactly as I am doing.

You're a very angry person, and you're so thoroughly convinced that you are right and everyone else is wrong. You remind me of some of the folks I knew back in the Sixties. For example, the militant pacifist (I knew several of them). They said they believed in non-violence, but often, if you disagreed with them on any issue, they was more than eager to take you out in the alley and beat the crap out of you.

Not a great advocate of the cause they gave lip-service to.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 12:54 PM

SOS, eh Don?

Don't you ever get tired of typing the same lengthy diatribes about how right you are and how wrong I am, over and over, just to prove my opinion means nothing to you?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 03:00 PM

Because you're wrong and I'm right. Simple as that.

This should make you and other hotheads who won't be happy until they start seeing some heads roll a bit calmer. Or perhaps a bit less likely to have a stroke or heart attack:   

Jay Inslee (Democrat), just re-elected Congressional Representative from Washington State's First Congressional District, has just announced that he plans to launch an investigation into the run-up to the Iraq war and the misinformation given to the American public, and put a trace on the billions of dollars that have gone to Halliburton and other companies in no-bid contracts to determine, among other things, where the money has gone and what, if anything, was ever done with it. He wants full accountability from the Bush administration.

Comprenez-vouz teamwork?

Nancy Pelosi is pretty much the most prominent Democrat in the news right now. If she were to start by launching such investigations, she would immediately (and justifiably) be accused of sabotaging any possible cooperation from the Republicans, disenchanted and otherwise. So quite wisely, she takes the high road. Knowing full well, of course, that this does not mean that others, such as Rep. Jay Inslee, an obscure congressman from way out here in the boonies, can't begin launching the kind of investigations that he intends to do. (Go get 'em, Jay!!)

You see, GUEST, I don't go off half-cocked and explode in all directions. I keep an eye on what's really going on, not just in the headlines, but on the back pages as well.

Thank God cooler heads are in charge.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 03:09 PM

I feel safe now!

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 03:27 PM

Not too "enlightening," but it is amusing.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 03:30 PM

Just hang onto your sense of humour, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 04:29 PM

"Lawmaker's probe of Bush: Where to start?

November 12, 2006
BY ERICA WERNER
LOS ANGELES -- The Democratic congressman who will investigate the Bush administration's running of the government says there are so many areas of possible wrongdoing, his biggest problem will be deciding which ones to pursue.
There's the response to Hurricane Katrina, government contracting in Iraq and on homeland security, decision-making at the Environmental Protection Agency and the Food and Drug Administration, and allegations of corporate profiteering, Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) told the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce.

''I'm going to have an interesting time because the Government Reform Committee has jurisdiction over everything,'' Waxman said Friday, three days after his party's capture of Congress put him in line to lead the panel. ''The most difficult thing will be to pick and choose.''"

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 04:32 PM

Maybe it don't matter shit WHAT Pelosi said. That you to all the cooler heads here.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 04:36 PM

"Thank you" I meant to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 05:05 PM

Hey, I don't think you'd find anyone here who would love to see Bush and Cheney empeached than me but...

...it ain't gonna happen and I'll tell ya' why:

There are lessons to be learned from history and the Dems, I think, have been payin' attention here... Look at what happened to the so-called '94 Revolt for starters... It marked the end of a long run by the Dems in Congress but here we are 12 years later and that revolt has all but fizzled out from partisanship and corruption...

Yeah, the Dems could go for the throat here but then they, along with Bush and Cheney, will be out in '08... The voters know that Bush and Cheney have messed up... The Repubs know it... Shoot, my cats know it... But another deeply partisan fight right now would be playin' right into the Repubs hand for '08...

Nancy Pelosi knows this and so it ain't gonna happen...

Bush and Cheney are the best things that the Dems could wish to have around in 2 years so, like I've said before, ain't gonna happen...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 07:21 PM

"like I've said before, ain't gonna happen..."

Tell that to Waxman.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 07:33 PM

Impeach Bush and you get Cheney. I don't suppose you could impeach both of them at the same time?

Of course how it was originally supposed to be was that the President was the candidate who came first, and the Vice-President was the one who came second.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 07:34 PM

It'sa all bass ackwards in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 07:46 PM

Did Waxman mention anything about anti-constutional abomininations? Like the PATRIOT Act. Don't forget, folks, you are now a "domestic terrorist" if you break a law. And if you are "suspected" of terrorism, you can be legally disappeared. If the above is the extent of what Waxman said, then he didn't touch on the destruction of our constitutional rights.

Both parties want that "right to arrest anybody" in place. And that's the FIRST thing that needs to be repealed. If no serious Democratic repeal process begins this week, make it your goal to buy a gun next weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 08:16 PM

It doesn't work that way McGrath. You can't impeach two people at once. Each person who is impeached is first investigated as an individual by the House Judiciary Committee, where hearings are held. If that committee passes an impeachment resolution and accompanying articles, it goes to the full House for a vote. It requires a simple majority to impeach.

The resolution and articles are then handed up to the Senate, who tries the person being impeached. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court presides over the trial, and rules on points of law, evidence, etc. At the beginning he swears in all 100 senators, who serve as the jury.

House managers act as prosecutors in the Senate part of the trial. House managers during the Clinton trial were all Republican members of the House Judiciary Committee, lead by Rep Henry Hyde, then Chair of the committee.

Conviction requires approval by a 2/3 majority of the Senators present at the time the vote is called. If convicted on any article, the person is considered immediately removed from their office, without any further vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 08:17 PM

Nah, GUEST, this is where we might break ranks... Watch Jim Webb, former Repub, and newly elected Virginia Senator... He is in hot demand as the up-'n-comin' war hero and he has problems with the suspension of habeas corpes and of illegal wiretappin'... Keep an eye on this guy...

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 08:37 PM

I agree someone needs to keep an eye on him:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashaw.htm

The way the Bush crime family works is through blackmail. The old Skull and Bones initiation thing. Two men have sex with each other, it is photographed, then you can never leave the club. J. Edgar Hoover did that too with his wiretapping and such. But at least whores like Pelosi and Hastert try to hide their indescretions. Then along comes Webb...I mean, maybe he's BEYOND blackmail if he's writing about a father sucking his boy's penis. Geez. Maybe that's what it'll take to put the murder of our constitution on the table for discussion...a pervert who's shockproof willing to risk his life. Hope so. And you keep your eye on him. I can't stand to look at the guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 08:57 PM

Yeah, seems you have bought into George (Bush) "Macaca" Allen's PR slam, GUEST...

BTW, have you read the books or are you letting folks with their own agendas tellin' you what to think about them???

Nevermind... Your last repsonse answered that question fairly well...

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 09:06 PM

First thing on the agenda of many Democrats, now that they have a majority in Congress, is repeal of the Patriot Act.

By the way, did it ever occur to any of our resident hotheads that impeachment might be too good for Bush and Cheney? There are a number of other legal possibilities. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 09:21 PM

Agree, Don...

Bush and Cheney are the best thing that the Dems could have goin' into '08...

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 10:12 PM

Oh yeah. They murdered 3000 Americans on 9-11. Let's leave them in office and just THREATEN to prosecute them.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: number 6
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 10:29 PM

I'd worry more about the 'healing' the U.S.A. is sorely in need of ... arriving at a common ground and getting the old ship back afloat then calling on the revenge of those 2 guys.

"the guillotine!, the guillotine!" ... this aint gonna get ya anywhere.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,I Oink. And I Vote.
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 10:47 PM

Nancy's a babe. Seriously. Seen her up close. Nice laugh, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: number 6
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 10:57 PM

As I mentioned in a previous thread oinker the 'ol gal is a sweetie, but as I also previously mentioned she is very 'political' and will surround herself with a cartel who all have the common agenda of personal gain ... laying aside the focus of healing and getting the country back on track.

Pelosi is not the reason the Dems were voted in ... the honour of that goes to all the grassroot Dems who put their beliefs and vision on the line ... these are the ones who will get lost in the political power struggle.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: number 6
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:06 PM

Well ... I just might have to eat my hat on what I just posted ... I just read over on the CNN site that Pelosi will endorse Iraq war critic John Murtha for majority leader. He is certainly what I categorise as a grassroots Dem.

Pelosi ... well aint she sweet.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,I Oink. And I Vote.
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:18 PM

Gosh she's priddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:46 PM

Restore habeas corpus.
Demand legal process for eavesdropping, requiring a warrant.
Undo the hypocrisy of "free speech zones".
Repeal the Patriot Act and reform its provisions to be fully in keeping with the constitution.

Track down all the encroachments on constitutional rights and principles -- such as the careful separation of church and state -- and roll them back.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:53 PM

GUEST, I remember an old joke that's much too long to go into here.
The relevant part is the punchline, which goes, "Patience, jackass, patience!"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 12:45 AM

The Democrats didn't pull a miracle out of their pocket. Millions of conservatives voted against the treason, mass murder and theft, and we want Bush and his pack of hyenas in a cage in a courtroom. Yesterday. You people made promises. Pussy-foot around and the Dems will be out quicker than Gore could say "assault weapons ban." The only way to save the U.S. is to rid it of the traitors within. Unfortunately, the US Senate voted 100-0 to take away your habeas corpus, so where the hell do you begin? Impeachment won't work. The ballot box is 2 years away. So we need trials. And start with the head of the snake. The Dems need to pressure federal judges to charge the Bush Administration with high crimes. They've committed a thousand I could list, and any atty in Washington could make a list ten times longer. Big, ugly show trials. Not blowjob trials, but Nuremberg trials. Now. Pelosi looks like she's on her way out, because she can't deal with this kind of heat. The Bushes are going to whack a lot of Democrats before the trials start, so get ready for it. You people wanted the job, it's yours. If you dick around and get diverted by gay rights and baby seals, you will die in concentration camps. Deal with the Bush crime cabal now. There's time for the other stuff later. Pelosi's GONE because tens of millions feel like this. You'd better get focused.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 01:54 AM

Okay, GUEST, believe it or not, I agree with a lot of what you say. But try to be a little patient. It isn't going to happen tonight. No hangings in the morning, no matter how much you lust after them. The new Congress isn't even in session yet and won't be for a couple of months. You don't know what's in the works, and those who are going to see that justice is done aren't going to run up and down the streets of the nation proclaiming their intentions through a bull-horn.

Righteous rage is an exhilarating feeling. But it can make you irrational if you aren't careful. Simmer down—and watch.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 02:47 AM

Hi Mick, you know I'm in England. You don't know I've been busy. You don't know that I have also said that the people of England should have taken up arms against Thatcher as the Irish did against several English governments (although I hope only against legitimate targets).

But you and other "Second Amendment" (is that the right amendment?) junkies have stepped into the little trap I was laying for you. Do you really think that hunting rifles, less effective than the arms fighters against the US and US puppet regimes in Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Eastern Meditteranean have will be much use against the proponents of "Shock and Awe"? The "right to bear arms" (for the supposedly legitimate purpose of resisting an overweening government) has become a total irrelevance.

I really am busy today too. See you later in the week.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 08:14 AM

We will all enjoy watching the True Blues around here eat their words.

The Democrats will not repeal the Patriot Act.

The Democrats will not restore habeas corpus.

The Democrats will not amend the laws already on the books for government wiretapping. Nor will they enforce them through oversight.

What will they do?

They will position themselves as best they can for the 2008 election campaign, and handle the Bush administration with kid gloves.

Anyone who thinks the current leadership of the Democratic party has even an ounce of integrity is seriously deluded. Seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 09:54 AM

Richard, that is as lame an answer as I have ever seen. You set a trap? C'mon, son. Any 5 year old can see that you got caught by your own words, and are now trying to look as though it was a trap. And the "don't have time now" bit is the standard cover for folks that don't have an answer.

First off, I never suggested that I keep arms to take them up against my government. Second, you don't know what arms I have. As far as you know they could be anything from a 22 caliber rifle to full auto assault weapons. Finally, if you were really the intellectual that you pretend to be, you would note that I wasn't advocating armed rebellion in the post above, rather I was baiting the person who talks radical, but really isn't. That is where you jumped in. I will say to you what I said to her. It is easy to advocate violence when you aren't the one who is going to have to carry it out, and have violence committed on you.

C'mon back with better than your last post. I have come to expect better of you.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 01:37 PM

And GUEST,MM, you know that for a fact, do you?

I hear otherwise.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: pdq
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 01:53 PM

GUEST, MM says:

"The Democrats will not repeal the Patriot Act."


This summer, the Patriot act came up for re-authorization. Did the Democrats block it? Did they all join hands and vote against it? Here is what the Socialist-run web sight The Guardian has to say:


"When the key vote came Thursday, Feingold found he was not entirely alone. Along with Vermont Independent Jim Jeffords, eight Democrats joined Feingold in voting "no" to reauthorization. The eight were:

Hawaii's Daniel Akaka
New Mexico's Jeff Bingaman
West Virginia's Robert Byrd
Iowa's Tom Harkin
Vermont's Patrick Leahy
Michigan's Carl Levin
Washington's Patty Murray
Oregon's Ron Wyden.

While Feingold was not on his own this time, the vote was still lopsided -- 89-10 to renew and extend expiring portions of the Patriot Act, with Hawaii Democrat Dan Inouye not voting. Despite earlier talk...all Republicans and the vast majority of Senate Democrats sided with the Bush White House in favor of legislation..."

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: 282RA
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 07:21 PM

Don't tell GUEST you agree with it. GUEST's anti-Bush diatribes have all the sincerity of Chinese propaganda poster. It rages against Bush strictly to get you to say you agree and thereby give it power over you that it feels it lost in this election.

As for Pelosi's looks, I agree there is type of classiness some older women have that I find sexy. Andrea Mitchell had it before that terrible makeover that made her look like an asexual 15 year old. Younger is not always sexier. Nothing beats a woman with class.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 08:05 PM

Well, well, well...

Seems Madam Speaker-elect has made a pretty hard turn to the right with this move today.

Let's see, shall we go back through your posts and find where you were screaming for impeachment, Ye Hypocrite True Blues? Remind you of where you were standing before the election, and where you are standing now?

No need to be patient. Pelosi is doing exactly what I said she would do: pander to the right to put Dems in the best position for 08.

They don't come any more conservative, right wing, and ethics challenged in the Democratic party than Murtha.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: 282RA
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 08:26 PM

Another woman I think wears her she very well is Catherine DeNeurve or however you spell it. Ever see her in 8 Women? Yowsuh!

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: 282RA
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 08:34 PM

Sorry I meant to say she wears her age well. Stupid BlackBerry.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 09:20 PM

Stupid BlackBerry? Are you racist and fruitist?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 09:41 PM

I developed an antipathy to Pelosi a few years back when it looked like the Democrats couldn't gain the courage of their convictions, so had taken on Rep's convictions and couldn't even gain courage there. BUT (US television magazine show) Sixty Minutes did a very nice profile of her the Sunday before the election and turned me right around. A hell of a dame!

The election has been a step in the right direction, but we've got a long way to go to make things better and topple W in '08.

      - - - - - - - - - - - -
And this thought from Homer Simpson: "By the time Bart's eighteen we'll have conquered the world! We're China, right?"
      - - - - - - - - - - - -

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 10:40 PM

Uh, Robo---W will be gone in 2008--even if we don't lift a finger. Cheney has said he won't run--and after the investigations of him, that will be a moot point. Rove has no chance. As of 2009, the whole W mafia will be gone. Then history can finish trashing them.

(But it is certainly true that there are some unappetizing choices on the Republican side--though McCain still makes a good bit of sense--and probably has more integrity than anybody who's occupied the Oval Office for decades or longer. It will be interesting to see just how much of a diehard he stays on "winning" in Iraq.)

Of course his hardest task will be surviving his own primaries--which is why he's tacking to the Right now.

But you can bet that anybody with his background knows what war is--and will only get involved in one for good reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 11:32 PM

Bush needs to leave office under indictment. If he gets away without having to answer for the criminal legislation his administration has put into place, all future presidents will have dictatorial powers. The whole leader-state that has been erected while he's been in office needs to be brought down WHILE HE IS IN POWER, or it will be transferred, and then it will be virtually impossible to reverse.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 01:47 AM

Trolin, Trolin, Trolin...
Keep them Flame posts rollin
Runhide!

Got your mind all made up, then... Ghost Pester? A good old fashioned lynching would suit you just fine, huh? Or maybe another lovely little revolution... like the French had, where the heads of the aristocracy were rolling around like bolling balls on league night while good people were starving in the streets?

No thanks.

Due process isn't just a good idea, it's the law.

For all we know, you might be wrong.

Anyway... Isn't it about time we showed the world how to enjoy the democratic process... by fine tuning ours? Isn't it about time we allowed ourselves to lift everyone up from the fear and the retribution... the intimidation and provocative put downs... by remembering how important Democracy is? Isn't it about time we studied peace and prosperity while consigning our military intelligence to defend us here at home? Isn't it about time we listened to real people instead of paid professional talk radio entepreneurs? Isn't it about time to celebrate how much we have in common... and how we desperately need one another to be happy? Isn't it time we engaged our minds fruitfully while taking pride in authentic spiritual endeavors? Isn't it about time America set a really good example for those countries most in need of one?

Yes, it is.
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:07 AM

Well Mick, if you think like a 5-year old.....

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 08:55 AM

Now Richard, don't overestimate his intelligence--you'll only make him look even more foolish when his wounded ego comes thundering in here to assassinate your character because you dared challenge the Great and Powerful Big Mick.

It ain't easy being king of the bullies, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 09:13 AM

How about this one for both of you? How about you just answer the query? Would either of you like to see a violent overthrow of the democratic process we have? Or would you be satisfied with restoring its integrity? Are you so wed to your ideology,that only revolutionary violence will do?

Richard, I have seen posts from many English posters that were angry that Yanks would insert themselves in the Northern Ireland debate. Are you now guilty of the same thing, that is inserting yourself in the American political debate to the extent that you are advocating our citizens take up arms? And I note that you still obfuscate on the questions instead of answering them.

MM, folks just laugh at you. It is the same old crap from you. You make these bogus assertions. Someone challenges you, and you start using foul language, denigrate others views, and offer no solutions. By the way, have you noticed that Russ Feingold is a Democrat True Blue? How come he isn't an Independent? I am searching for a statement from him calling Pelosi a sellout for not calling for impeachment. Can't find it. You are an out of touch, bitter, ineffective spokesperson for a radical position that would only yield more misery. And ultimately fail. You are angry that the electorate, in their wisdom, have chosen a different path. You will now call them deluded, and stidently screech that only you have the answers. Check with a mental health professional. This is a condition with a name and a treatment.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 11:21 AM

See what I mean Richard? Just what we've come to expect from the King of the Mudcat Bullies.

His MO? He bullies and belittles anyone who disagrees with his opinions.

Someone even commented upon his egomaniacal bullying behavior over in Usenet a few years back. And the fact that sure does love his guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 12:12 PM

Pretty laughable, but it is fun to watch you react so predictably. It is laughable because you are the one who bullies and belittles anyone who disagrees with your position. It goes back to your hatred of veterans which is documented in earlier threads. It goes back to your hatred of middle class Americans who don't share your views, also documented in earlier threads. You always like to bully and when someone like me reacts, you become nasty and foul in your responses.

You fool no one, and that is why I get the PM's from any number of Mudcatters telling me to ignore you. Which is what I will do now.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 12:18 PM

"I know you are but what am I" behavior from the always predictable King of the Bullies. Who needs lots of PMs from posters, telling him to shut up and knock it off.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 12:22 PM

In Canton we faced a dreary day so filled with--what the fuck? Hey, hello, all.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 01:00 PM

Thomas the Rhymer...

Due process? You can't use that as an argument any more. The Military Commissions Act and Warner's Defense Appropriations bill did away with courts and habeas corpus. If you argue due process now, you're aruging in favor of disappearing people (as the Bush crowd did so well in Central America a few years ago), and you're arguing in favor of torturing people to death.

I guess you flaming liberals think the world has suddenly changed because some Democrats got into office. Nothing's changed except a few bosses. But the Dems are notorious for being thugs, so they'll get along well with the uber-thugs of the Bush crime family.

Due process.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 01:09 PM

Thomas the Rhymer (at 14 Nov 06 - 01:47 AM) speaks wisdom.

For the chronically disillusioned (or the chronically ill-humored) in our midst, I would suggest that before going off half-cocked about what they think the Democrats may or may not do in the next couple of years, maybe it would help to have some idea of what the Democrats say is on their agenda:   Clicky.

Don Firth

(But then, sometimes I wonder why I even bother. They don't read this stuff anyway. I guess it's more fun for them to just bitch and complain and predict impending doom, and feel smug and superior because because others don't see it the way thay do. I think it's a form of belief in some sort of impending sectarian Armageddon.)

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 01:20 PM

"I guess you flaming liberals"

Probably a good song in there.

"I am the very model of a modern flaming liberal,
I've information vegetable animible, miberal
I know the presidential names from Washington to dickhead Bush
I also know that being nice occasionally means that one must shush

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Amos
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 02:59 PM

..."In fact in things political, which covers ground considerable
I am the very model of a modern flaming liberal!"

A

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 04:21 PM

Big Mick may have a point in stating that people like Richard and I have no right to express opinions on American political affairs, but the US administration sure tried hard to convince us "europeans" to join them in their adventure into Iraq.
Unfortunately our leaders were easy to convince Each wanting part of the reflected glory of the "Liberation". The electorate in France, Germany ,Spain, Italy and even Britain were never convinced by the lies.

Mick is not only wrong but deluded, if he believes the members of this forum ignore the posts of Guest. I for one always read and respect the writing of this poster. He/she hits hard and often, the posts are eloquent and well researched. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the sentiments expressed, this is one poster who can't be ignored.
Without folk like this the BS section would be bland and uninteresting.

There is something pathetic about people of our age who never question why things never turn out as we would like them to and continually blame the labels for our political misery.

I've been a radical all my life, seen the tricks played by the politicians and made plenty of mistakes,but at this stage of my life, I KNOW for sure that sticking our heads in the sand and hoping something good evolves from the Capitalist status quo is self-delusion on the grand scale.

I say three cheers for GUEST!!   we're lucky to have such an original mind in our group.......and fuck all who support warmongers whether they be "Pubs" OR "Dems"......Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 05:30 PM

Wow, thanks akenaton.

It's refreshing to see someone who sees through the BS of this handful of Mudcat Dems, to stand up and say the emperor has no clothes.

They (Don Firth, et al) seem to think they are the sole purveyors of truth around here, and that none of us need think for ourselves, exchange ideas, argue and defend our opinions, because they already have all the answers: the ones they are given by the Democratic party spinners through the filter of corporate media.

Funny ole world, ain't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 06:39 PM

GUEST,MM, why do you single me out to name? Apparently you haven't been paying attention to quite a number of things I've written here. Among other things, where I said the following:

"I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Democratic Party. I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of any political party. You assume I am a Democrat, and you are wrong. And you're just as wrong about a lot of people here.

"As an independent (not a member of 'the Independent Party, I am truly independent), I can communicate meaningfully with all political parties, and since they're all courting independent voters, they tend to listen to them, often more closely than to their own confirmed members. I think a lot of the smarter, more politically astute people here are doing exactly as I am doing."

I hear people like you yelling "Off with their heads!" and offering damned little in the way of practical, strategic politics.

I am no "party loyalist" as you and your anonymous cohorts keep insisting. I want to see the various members of the Bush administration--and others--get their come-uppance. But I'm far more interested in getting this illegal war stopped, this idiotic and ominous hacking away at our rights in the name of a spurious "war on terrorism" reversed, and get the country back on track and see if we can win back some of the international respect we like to think we had before the freakin' American Imperialists took over.

Right now, the Democrats are our best hope of at least slowing the present downhill slide. If not them, then who?   What WE need to do is stay on their backs and demand that they fulfill their promises—make sure they actually do what they say they're going to do.

All I've heard out of you lot is a chorus of moaning about how rotten the Democrats are and how we're all doomed. Not much practical help.

Apart from sharpening and oiling up the guillotine, if you have anything resembling a plan, then let's hear it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 07:20 PM

Gentlemen, may I suggest that everyone take a deep breath and THINK?

1) The Democrats are not yet calling the shots.
2) Investigations into various people WILL take place.
3) It is therefore aerly for the shit to hit the fan.

Have a very nice evening, all.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,MM
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 07:57 PM

Yes Don, I'm aware you claim to be a non-party affiliated independent. But if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, I call it a duck.

And your penchant for demonizing political independents to your left as "bombthrowers" (as you so love to do with me) is pure demagoguery.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 07:59 PM

Jaysus, you folks use big words.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 07:15 PM

Ah...the "healing" new breeze wafting from Nancy's vagina. She'll bring us together:

Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass

For the past eight years, the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith has tried unsuccessfully to pass its Orwellian federal "anti-hate" bill. It has failed largely for one reason: Republican control of Congress....

With Democrats now in control, such freedom-saving clout no longer exists. ADL's federal thought crimes bill, "The Local Law Enforcement Enhancement Act," will be reintroduced soon after January 1. Since no Democrat in Congress has ever voted against the hate bill, it will pass. Pres. Bush has said he will sign a "modified" hate bill. If he does, free speech in America will quickly come to an end....

Today, from Canada to California, to Europe and Australia, ADL-inspired "thought crime" laws are stripping nations of free speech. In Canada and many European countries, it is a crime punishable by heavy fines and even imprisonment to make use of the internet to criticize federally protected groups, such as homosexuals and Muslims....

http://www.rense.com/general74/HATEBILL.HTM

What sweet waft. We'll soon be able to put all those fucking Christians in prison for hate speech. How sweet. Women are so much more sweet and nice than men.

And don't worry about websites like Mudcat. We can still criticice the "Christian fascists" and express hatred over Bush because that's not really hatespeech. Not when the Democrats are in charge (titter titter). Now we'll make them squirm. This is going to be so sweet. I'm overcome by waft. I love the new Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 07:17 PM

"titter titter"

That's a sexist remark, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 07:28 PM

As I said, GUEST,MM, you're just not paying attention. Not all the bombthrowers are on my left. You don't know just how far to the left I am, so don't bother trying to speculate.

(Why am I arguing with you? Bloody waste of time!)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 07:31 PM

By the way, above I said "if you have anything resembling a plan, then let's hear it."

Strangely enough, I don't see any response, other than another one of your personal attacks on me. Got nuthin' eh?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 07:49 PM

Same thing is happening here in UK GUEST, where the Blair govt are swamping us with legislation designed to curtail freedom of speech.

Most of this legislation is being hidden under the "War on terror" banner, but the real reason is that the politicians see power being taken back into the hands of those who elected them ...and they don't like it one little bit...

The whole idea that we should be denied the freedom to express our opinions on religion, race, homosexuality, or any other controversial subject, is the start of the slippery slope to a police state run by the politicians and those who finance them.

This ideology is pervasive....Just try to start a realistic discussion on any of these topics here on Mudcat and watch the thought police come crawling out from under their stones...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 08:16 PM

I've seen it akenaton. They are gestapo-like sometimes. The "Politically Correct" crowd can't wait to stomp freedom of thought to death. Such loving stomps. Such rotund, Al Gorish concern for the feelings of those who are starving.

I remember reading a statement a while back by Rowan Atkinson. About the insane hate speech laws. Don't recall the wording, but essentially he said if you take away the ability to make fun of Frenchmen, it'll kill British comedy. Something like that. I should look for that interview. Mr. Bean may find himself in prison someday. Maybe the next Blackadder series will be from Oceania.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 08:52 PM

Rowan Atkinson is indeed a great supporter of free speech.

Re the Republican /Democrat controversy I just stumbled on a quotation from American Socialist Eugene Debs "The differences between the Republican and Democratic Parties involve no issue, no principle in which the working class have any interest".

This quote seems to nail it for me.    Eugene Debs is said to be a hero of one Bernie Sanders...so called "independent" who is in reality, more of a Democrat than the Dems.

Sanders seems to me to be someone who should be assisting the left to form an alternative to the corporate parties, but in fact appears to be the token "Socialist" who tempts people who would look for a genuine alternative,into voting for parties opposed to their aspirations....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 09:18 PM

But there lies the problem. The left has just as much to gain from corporatism as the right. Hell, the right IS the left. GWBush has tripled the size of the federal govt (the leftists are the ones who want strong federal control, so how'd Bush get in the govt-growing business?). Bush has federalized churches, federalized all police departments in the U.S., federalized education. He's out-lefted the left. THAT'S why Pelosi's vagina wafts sweetly over the Bush camp. Republicans kept an eye on penis-man Clinton, but they went comatose when one of "theirs" got into the White House. And lookit what the guy's done to the country. Why should the Dems get in his way when he's driving us full-bore to a communist dictatorship? This fascism thing is just a passing phase. Once the corporations become the corporations become the govt, they'll impose penny-pinching communism on us. Of course, a handfull will be exempt, because someone has to run things. But it'll be grey work dungarees and Chairman Hillary's little red book for the rest of us. Ah...the waft of Hillary's vagina. There I go again, getting swept along by the propaganda. Yeah, we need an alternative. You say progressive, I say return to the principles of our constitutional republic, so I guess that makes me reactionary. Anyway, buy guns folks. And don't ever give 'em up. The U.S. Constitution says you have a God-given right to own them. Surrender them one bullet at a time.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 09:38 PM

I tend to agree with that analysis Guest.:0)
But I dont think violent revolution is powerful enough to defeat the facists of left or right.
The destruction of organised power will take many generations and a whole new way of using our brains.

But the sooner we start the better...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 09:48 PM

Brains backed up by guns. Hitler, Stalin and Mao disarmed their people, THEN they dealt with the brains. And there's no need to get violent if the people in charge don't break the law. You only use weapons against criminals, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 11:37 AM

"The American defeat in Vietnam holds lessons for the US in Iraq, George Bush said today."

The man is a fuckin' genius, in'nt he?

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 12:58 PM

Bush's personal lesson would be to duck the war altogether, like he did Viet Nam.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Amos
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 04:23 PM

Well, perhaps rather than duck it he could start with a little water-boarding.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 05:29 PM

Little Georgie DID duck this war- you don't see him (ar anyone in his family) over there putting HIS life on the line, do you?

Just like Viet Nam.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: DougR
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 08:07 PM

Gee, if I didn't know better I'd think there has been a wee bit of thread drift here.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 08:36 PM

The thread is drifting because the sky is falling, Doug.

"How does it feel . . .".

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 12:33 AM

Give Georgie a chance, after all he finally just got to Viet Nam. It takes a bit of time ya know.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 12:34 AM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 04:49 AM

"The thread is drifting because the sky is falling, Doug."

"How does it feel . . .".

Thanks Bruce....Satire is not dead.....LOL!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 05:01 AM

Wouldn't mind a bit more detail on Pelosi's defeat over support of an anti war candidate for House Majority leader.

Is GUEST correct that the progressive stance taken by the Dems before the election was a complete sham,......Certainly looks that way....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 08:50 AM

The coiffed waft of vaginal politics in general is a sham, and it was used to get women out to vote against the war that's killing their children. The mothers' reward...the Democrats get into office and say we need to sent 20,000 MORE troops to Iraq before pulling out. The moneyed elite who own both parties love a good joke just like the rest of us.

Now vaginal politics will start kicking around that tired old Earth Mother construct. Gaia. Al Gore will be its flatulent spokesman in the U.S. First-world nations will be told we need to pay for harming the planet, but it's not the Toyota driver that's harming the planet, it's the corporations who gene-splice randomly and release the crap into the biosphere. The Luciferians running the world will now use Nancy Pelosi's vagina to suck Democrats into a gibbering mindset of "mothering" the earth, and the end result of the movement will be the goal of the old Biodiversity Treaty. Americans will be deemed harmful to the land, and we will slowly be forced off our property and into cities for easier extermination by bioweapons.

The woman's movement is a sham. The people who created it did so to gain control over women. The environmental movemnt is a sham. The people who control it want control over all the real estate on the planet. Pelosi's coiffed vaginal politics are a sham.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 11:08 AM

It's time for me to get out my hip boots.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 01:12 PM

Barry, I had NO idea . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,Dr. Jung-Freud
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 01:12 PM

The last few posts are highly revealing. GUEST's political views are formed by a deep-seated insecurity about his masculinity (note the predilection for the use of guns, which are a phallic symbol) and his contempt for women (his disparaging remarks about "vaginal politics"). His misogyny springs from misgivings about his manhood and his hatred of women, and this forms his world outlook.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 01:13 PM

OK, Barry. You get the hip boots and I'll get the shovel.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 01:44 PM

Yes, break out the hip waders. Vaginal politics are a deeply messy subject.

Women have been had. The World Bank (and its federal reserve branch in the U.S.) created the "women's movement" in order to break up families. More taxes can be collected if the woman is forced to go to work. Split up the home, then BOTH parents have to work. And that means fewer hours spent with the kids, so the kids can be governmentized into mindless trolls by TV and "public education." What a sweet, sweet plan. So all-encompassing. Screws up all members of the family. And when women begin to suspect the truth, give them a coiffed Madame Speaker. That'll keep 'em quiet.

And the enviromental movement. The waft coming from Al Gore's vagina seems disingenuine. Is s/he not what s/he claims to be? The polar caps are melting so coastal areas will be flooded! Panic! Run for the hills. But wait a minute. Ice expands when it freezes. Therefore, if the caps melt, the volume displacement caused by the ice will lessen, leading to LOWERING sea levels. It's an ill wind that blows from the Gorish vagina.

The Biodiversity Treaty attempts to sell you on the idea that you are bad for the environment. Bad humans. You need to be CONTROLLED. But the people controlling you (Rumsfeld/Monsanto) have spliced cockroach genes into your tomatoes to give them longer shelf life. Thousands of other tinkerings too. It takes generations for humans to adapt to one little genetic glitch in the food chain, but now we're being assaulted with THOUSANDS of unnatural changes, all at once. You have been badly deceived, you greenies! Your bodies are now struggling to fight against substances never meant to be eaten. "Diabetes" is skyrocketing, but that's just an umbrella term being used to cover the collection of symptoms in our Monsanto-assaulted bodies. You are eating scorpion genes and stinkweed genes and your body is fighting them as it would any other pathogen. And your body is losing. So who's the bad guy in this situation...the man down the block with the smoky car or the CEO who approves the addition of spider genes to your wheat? You've been deceived, I say, and now you'll be mollified by the vaginal team coming in to continue the deception.

The era of the Gore-y Green Vagina is upon us.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: pdq
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 01:54 PM

"Great, Green Gobs of Greasy, Grimy, Gopher Guts
Mutilated Monkey Meat, Itty Bitty Birdie Feet
Great, Green Gobs of Greasy, Grimy, Gopher Guts
And me without a spoon."

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 02:40 PM

Where is Winston Rothschild III when you need him?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 05:39 PM

Yes Peace, please do. I'll bring the drink,,,,,a quart of woolite should do.

The world bank started the woman's movement! Didn't realize the world bank to be that old.
Women have been working since time began, you just won't credit them! Who hell do you think supported men all this time, espically mindless men. Yo momma ain't to proud of you today, boy.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 06:22 PM

You can deNy the green vagina if you want, but it would be better to deFy it. Come to what little bit of sense you have left, while there's still time. The moneyed elite win by controlling both teams. The feminized Democrats and the over-machoed-homo-Repubicans are just the left and right hands of the same beast. Pelosi's a shill for the good ol boys. They're laying the sex card on the table in order to dupe women who feel "disenfranchised." Women have been taught to want careers AND families, but it's proven to be biologically difficult to have both. And now those women are angry (Soaprah tells them they're angry), and it's all the fault of the homo-Repubicans who poke little boys, drink gasoline and fart fuel emissions. Knee-jerk! There's Nancy! She'll save us!

Yes the truth is painful, but deFy the green vagina, don't deNy it. Buenas noches.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Peace
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 08:58 PM

I obviously missed doing SOMEthing in the 1960s.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 10:06 PM

Gonna ha' tae agdree wi' Bobby An' nea wi' you, Gostlie...

ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 07:57 AM

"moneyed elite win by controlling both teams"--ah, yes, more bitter drivel.

Monitor Pelosi et al.--and try to steer them in the right direction, if they don't seem to be an improvement on the Bushites. But it's just a bit premature to write them off just yet.

Good thing the US voting public is not as deeply cynical as some posters here.

Subject: RE: BS: Pelosi
From: GUEST,fumblefingers
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 12:56 AM

Watch this