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BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies
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Subject: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: GUEST,mg Date: 14 Nov 06 - 01:43 PM I haven't seen the film but have great misgivings about how it makes fun of people in a real country. Now here is an article that says something about how the movie was made. I would encourage everyone who is offended by this to write to various people so that at least some of the wrongs here can be lessened, perhaps by some financial arrangements etc. http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/14/D8LCSROO0.html Remember, most of our ancestors were not overly sophisticated..although probably not as uncouth as what I understand is portrayed here.I haven't seen the movie and will do it with an eye toward writing a few letters... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: John MacKenzie Date: 14 Nov 06 - 01:53 PM If it involves Sacha Baron Cohen or whatever his name is, then you can be certain that it is offensive, and unfunny. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: GUEST Date: 14 Nov 06 - 01:56 PM For real. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Liz the Squeak Date: 14 Nov 06 - 02:00 PM It's being billed as 'the funniest thing you'll ever see'.... I've seen funnier root vegetables. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: greg stephens Date: 14 Nov 06 - 02:25 PM I thought it provided eccellent publicity for Ioan Ivancea(Romanian gypsy music), and also for the stunning singing of the Bulgarian London-based singer Dessi(sorry can't remember her whole name, I'm sure somebody else will come up with it). OK, the film is offensive: so is a lot of humour. i think you all must know what you are going to get if you look at Ali G, or Borat. Anyway, I thought it was excellent. And it brought great traditional folk music to a wide mainstream audiencee. Great stuff. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Clinton Hammond Date: 14 Nov 06 - 02:26 PM Oh you people gotta get the fuck over yourselves.... It's a laugh.... and a damn good one at that! Try getting more bran into your diets |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: John MacKenzie Date: 14 Nov 06 - 02:28 PM If we need a shit, we always have you Clint. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Clinton Hammond Date: 14 Nov 06 - 02:31 PM At least I'm not a tight assed old fuckwit who wouldn't know a good time if it jumped up and bit me on the cock If I ever get half as old and cranky as some of you peopel, I'll shoot myself in the face. I wonder why some of you even get out of bed in the morning, if you're so afraid of the world as it is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: greg stephens Date: 14 Nov 06 - 02:36 PM Dessislava Stefanova, or Dessi for short. that was the name of the singer I was having difficulty remembering. She is agreat singer, look out for her(or listen if you go to see Boarat). But if you find racism. incest, naked fat men, poo jokes, Romanian gypsies, Americans, rodeos or Pentecostal Christianity unfunny, you had perhaps better avoid it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: GUEST, heric Date: 14 Nov 06 - 02:41 PM A shame he should ruin good poo jokes amidst all that other stuff. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: John MacKenzie Date: 14 Nov 06 - 02:49 PM Most humour now seems to consist of mocking something or someone, there is very little intelligent humour any more. In the UK we are getting like some other countries, we can no longer laugh at ourselves, instead we laugh at other people, and their foibles and weaknesses. G. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Little Hawk Date: 14 Nov 06 - 02:55 PM I'm reserving judgement till I see the movie. It's getting a great reception in Canada, and I've heard that it's very good. Clinton might be right on the mark with his reaction to this one. The best way to discredit racism, I would think, is to make outrageous fun of it in the most extreme and blatant manner (as Lenny Bruce did, for example), not to engage in long-winded, holier-than-thou moral diatribes, which is what people usually do when they are desperate to prove to everyone how totally unprejudiced and wonderful they are themselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Clinton Hammond Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:01 PM (as Lenny Bruce did, for example) You might not be worth the powder to blow you to hell LH, but in this, we reach. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: GUEST Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:07 PM Ali G/Borat makes some people squirm because they recognise them selves. Clever comedy. Ali G was great when he was still unknown to those he suckered in and exposed. Borat is too close to comfort for others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: katlaughing Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:09 PM I doubt that I will bother to see it, so cannot comment, but I find it hard to believe the following claim is valid. Doesn't say a lot for our college students, does it?: Two members of a fraternity at a South Carolina university who appear making drunken, insulting comments about women and minorities also are suing 20th Century Fox and three production companies, claiming the crew liquored them up in a bar before filming and told them the movie would not be shown in the United States. So it's okay to project an asshole view of Americans, as long as it's not in America...oh, yeah, just like the prez they look up to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:11 PM I have no problem with using humor and satire to blow out racism and other problems in the world. By exposing the racists to ridicule is the best way to get rid of this crap. What bothers me, IF the stories are true is that he used these people. The story that came out today is that paid these people a few dollars ($3 to $5 in American money)to use their village and do outrageous stunts. I would hope that he sends a few more dollars to help out since this movie is so successful. I do have a problem with people crying "foul" without having seen the movie. The story said that he "made" these people do outlandish stunts. He "made" a 75 year old woman put on large fake boobs and then say she is a young woman from the village. A mother was given money to let a pig run around in her home. A man without an arm was given a sex toy to strap on in place. They may be poor, but they aren't stupid. How do you "trick" someone into doing things like that? I have to suspect that they knew this was a comedy film, and if they are crying foul now - perhaps the blame is on them? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: John MacKenzie Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:16 PM So why is the Kazakhstan ambassador complaining about the film, and the fact that it make a fool of his country. Is that valid in the name of humour? Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Clinton Hammond Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:22 PM "why is the Kazakhstan ambassador complaining" Cause he's a suck, like you are? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:23 PM Giok - does that mean people should stop making fun of the U.S. and the U.K.? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: George Papavgeris Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:24 PM I just find the exerpts I saw (and I saw several) a little boring and samey. Having seen - and enjoyed - the Borat skits in the Ali G series, I think a whole movie of more of the same will be at risk from the standard " As regards making fun of Kazhakstanis, those who believe Borat does so are missing the point: I take Borat to be taking the piss out of all those who would readily accept that this is how Kashakstanis really are. Of course this is not the case, yet he seems to find so many victims ready to accept him for real. When then the tables turn on them, some get angry - but for my money the real joke was on them the minute they accepted him as a bona fide individual. A great idea for a joke - but in the end it is just one joke. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: George Papavgeris Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:26 PM And before someone else says it - yes, I cant spel eyther |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Clinton Hammond Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:29 PM "those who believe Borat does so are missing the point" Like the people who think that Stephen Colbert is really a republican.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: George Papavgeris Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:30 PM Precisely. Shit - I am agreeing with CH! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Little Hawk Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:33 PM Yeah, Clinton, I guess we do. ;-) I don't mind seeing assholes being made fun of, no matter which country they are from. Every country has its share of assholes, and they deserve to be made fun of. Young guys often make insulting comments about women, minorities, gays, whoever...just to get attention, to get a rise out of people, and mostly to show off in front of other young guys. If you've been in high school or college, you know that. It's typical acting out behaviour for immature males at a certain stage in their lives. So let's make fun of it, I say. ;-) I think Guest has it right on the nose: "makes some people squirm because they recognise themselves" That's the real reason people got so livid at Lenny Bruce and set the cops on him. They couldn't stand being confronted with their own hidden crap. There was definitely a method to his madness, and there may well be to Cohen's too. It's a danged good thing he's a Jew, otherwise imagine all the people who now would be accusing him of being anti-semitic...and that was true of Lenny Bruce too, wasn't it? Satire seems to go right by a lot of people, because they don't think, they merely react to the most obvious symbols that happen to push their buttons. Another case of that was all the people who got offended by the Randy Newman song "Short People", because they took it seriously. Some people just can't take a joke! (or get it either, apparently) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Clinton Hammond Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:38 PM " Shit - I am agreeing with CH!" Welcome to the dark side, my young apprentice. You've taken your first steps in a much larger world. ;-) " It's a danged good thing he's a Jew" His anti-Jew rant at John Stewart on The Daily Show was HILARIOUS! " Some people just can't take a joke!" And what does the old adage suggest we do with they's that can't? FUCK 'EM! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: akenaton Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:40 PM I agree with George, I found the excerpts very funny but it is one joke done to death. But some people never tire of the same joke!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Little Hawk Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:43 PM Yeah! LOL! Mick Jagger said that once, didn't he? (certain people were objecting to a certain line in the song "Some Girls"...a song which, if anyone was dumb enough to take it seriously, they oughta be made to listen to it a hundred or so times more just as punishment...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: GUEST,lox Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:58 PM My fear with this film was that a lot of people might watch it thinking "dumbass rag head arab", fuelled by prejudice created by the whole christian/moslem and white/arab post 9/11 thing, and use it simply as a vehicle to indulge their ignorant disparaging and stereotyped view of foreigners wiith dark skin and big moustaches. I am starting to understand though that cohen could have used this character precisely to expose those kind of attitudes in people, in which case bring on the pricks, because they're either going to be exposed, feel very uncomfortable as they slowly begin to realise that they and their ilk are in fact the real butt of the joke, or they are going to laugh along, breathe a sigh of relief that it wasn't them and slink away to their holes at the earliest given opportunity and maybe even start to reconsider their point of view. The difficulty is, what if they are too stupid to get the irony and still believe that he is really a khazakstani or that the point is still about what geeks khazakstani's are (and what a joke their soldiers are, how easy it is to kick their heads in etc). I mean it's all goddam Iraq at the end of the day isn't it! And maybe some of his victims didn't deserve to be targets as much as others? Time will tell. I'll probably see it when it comes out on video. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Amos Date: 14 Nov 06 - 04:06 PM I found it offensive and hilarious; no-one enjoys being the butt of slapstick, but I don't think any of it should be taken that seriously. It also show fat, hairy naked men having temper tantrums in a very bad light, and extols the virtues of prostitutes and makes Christian revivalist Pentecostals look silly. There's very little it doesn't make fun of, from Kazakhistan to Los Angeles. I laughed my ass off, deciding I would take it seriously some other time. I think, on reflection, it was the right choice. I felt the same way about Charlie Chaplin's send-up of Hitler. A number of people are p.o.'d because he was not up front with them about what he was doing and thus took advantage of them, including the anchor newsperson who reportedly lost her job, and the rowdy frat boys described in Kat's post. I think there was something dodgy about that business model, indeed, and we'll see how it comes out in court. But that does not take away from the hilarity of the resulting film. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Little Hawk Date: 14 Nov 06 - 04:33 PM "what if they are too stupid to get the irony and still believe that he is really a khazakstani or that the point is still about what geeks khazakstani's are (and what a joke their soldiers are, how easy it is to kick their heads in etc)." Yeah, that's always the problem, isn't it? It can't be helped. There will always be such people, unfortunately. It's part of life. I can understand that people are angry he used them and didn't let them in on the joke...but looking at it from his point of view that would definitely work the best for creating genuinely funny satire in an improv way and making it convincing, rather than having people just act it out as a script. Practical jokes only work if the people you play them on are fooled, but the people who get fooled aren't necessarily going to like it when they find out. In America, if people don't like something, they tend to sue. That's one of the real problems with modern America. It wastes a hell of a lot of time, money, and effort...but it sure as hell keeps the lawyers employed, so it's not all bad, right? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Clinton Hammond Date: 14 Nov 06 - 04:47 PM "makes Christian revivalist Pentecostals look silly" We don't need Borat for that.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: bobad Date: 14 Nov 06 - 04:50 PM I guess this guy didn't find Mr.Cohen funny: Comedian Sacha Baron Cohen, the star 'Borat: Cultural Learnings of America For Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan', got a nasty beating when tried to pull a fast one on a passer-by in New York. "I like your clothings. Are nice! Please may I buying? I want have sex with it," Cohen said to the bewildered man, who landed a blow on the 35-year-old comedian. As Cohen shouted for help, the man punched him several times, before the funnyman's friend actor Hugh Laurie came running to his aid. "Sacha couldn't resist playing the fool as Borat, but picked on the wrong person. I guess this guy thought he was being attacked by someone unstable and lashed out. Sacha is very lucky he didn't get a much worse beating," Laurie said. Though Cohen has been warned against taking his big screen character Borat to the streets, he couldn't resist this chance to do what he did to several Americans featured in the film. From Earth Times. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Lox Date: 14 Nov 06 - 04:57 PM "I can understand that people are angry he used them and didn't let them in on the joke" Actually, that bit doesn't bother me in the slightest. Getting people to expose their darker side like that is the essence of some great satire. We had two spoof news programs in thhe UK called "the day today" and "brass eye". Both were so realistic that they had most viewers fooled instantly to begin with, unless they had had forewarning. Butmost importantly, they showed just how idiotic people can be just so they can have their moment of glory. Chris Morris managed to get an inordinately long list of celebs, for example, to record video messages warning of the evils of a new super addictive drug called "cake" "It's a made up drug, and people make it in their own kitchens!!!!!" His campaign even managed to get an MP to ask a question about it in parliament. Absolute class. He hasn't worked since as he pissed off too many people including the kray twins old hit man "mad frankie fraser" by duping him into expressing his views in an interview on the subject of "nonces". Britain did not know what riches they lost when he went off the air. Problem with Borat is the stereotype, and the ramifications for dark skinned folk with moustaches who live in the UK and the US who may be the target of Borat jokes, and the general sense of unfair treatment that many Khazakstani's may feel. There are some who deserve to be humiliated, but I feel they are an easy target who don't really have a way of replying. If that is the case then it doesn't seem fair. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Clinton Hammond Date: 14 Nov 06 - 04:59 PM " I guess this guy thought he was being attacked by someone unstable and lashed out." What kind of cowardly, small minded, knuckle walker would you have to be to assault someone you think is unstable.... "Oh, he's a retard... beat him up."?!?!?! What the fuck? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Lox Date: 14 Nov 06 - 05:11 PM Boggles the mind Clinton |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: GUEST Date: 14 Nov 06 - 05:18 PM The type of person who isn't going to 'get' Borat isn't going to start abusing brown skinned people with moustaches. They already do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: akenaton Date: 14 Nov 06 - 05:20 PM Well I'm never too hard on you Clint...Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Nov 06 - 05:44 PM I really think the lad should go on a tour of Kazakhstan and see how the act goes down there. ........................ I see from the paper today that Ioan Ivancea (whose music was featured in the film) has died - here is an obituary in today's Guardian. And here is his band Fanfare Ciocarlia on YouTube. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Georgiansilver Date: 14 Nov 06 - 05:52 PM And so the degradation of society grows.....even in fun....Come Lord Jesus! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: bobad Date: 14 Nov 06 - 06:01 PM "What kind of cowardly, small minded, knuckle walker would you have to be to assault someone you think is unstable" This was New York city, he's lucky to be alive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Richard Bridge Date: 14 Nov 06 - 06:15 PM Cohen takes the piss out of every religion? He's very happy to have a go at everyone else's beliefs. But he really lost his rag and shouted and screamed and cried when he discovered that the mashed potato he had just eaten in the Ivy restaurant (one of the very best and most exclusive and hardest to get into in London - if my memory serves me they turned away two US presidents on different occasions) was just like everyone else's mashed potato that day, and had had bacon in it. Just maybe he should decide whether to run with the hare or to hunt with the hounds. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: GUEST,lox Date: 14 Nov 06 - 06:20 PM "The type of person who isn't going to 'get' Borat isn't going to start abusing brown skinned people with moustaches. They already do." I wholeheartedly agree, but would add that they don't need more excuses or ammo. Plus there are some who may have previously felt inhibited who might think that if it's ok for Cohen to do it, it's ok forthem to do it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Amos Date: 14 Nov 06 - 06:25 PM Borat is a send off of all humanity, not just religions. Of course you wouldn't expect that distinction to make much difference in some circles. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: greg stephens Date: 14 Nov 06 - 06:37 PM Please, f you go and see it, try to stop laughing enough now and again to enjoy some of the very fine music. Or perhaps see it twice to make sure you catch it all. This is a seriously good movie for folk music, believe me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: dianavan Date: 14 Nov 06 - 07:08 PM I can't wait to see it but if Richard is implying that Cohen (being Jewish) takes his own religion very seriously, then I would say Cohen should be prepared for someone to make a very funny movie about Jews. I'm sure there are alot of Jews who would call a movie ridiculing Jews, anti-semitism. Good point, Richard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Lox Date: 14 Nov 06 - 07:11 PM though possibly following in mel brooks footsteps (another jewish anti semite ?!?!?!?!??) - he made cheesy and sometimes offensive jokes but had artistic integrity nonetheless. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Nov 06 - 07:22 PM Jews making jokes poking fun at Jews isn't anti-semitic. Christians or Muslims doing the same would be. The point is, Sacha Baron Cohen is not a Kazakh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Mr Happy Date: 14 Nov 06 - 07:44 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Nov 06 - 08:15 PM Here's a video of a Kazakh pop song. What gives all this a nasty taste is that the joke could have been just the same if he'd made up the name of the fictional country, rather than taking the name of a real place where people live, and which they love, the same way other people love their native country. It was a mean thing to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Borat film exploits Romanian gypsies From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Nov 06 - 04:11 PM "if Richard is implying that Cohen (being Jewish) takes his own religion very seriously" ... then Richard's missed the point. |
