Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Atkins
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 07:12 PM

Bluegrassman. Brill and thanks for your post!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Tootler
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 10:34 AM

And of course, the Scots and Welsh MP's will get to vote on a proposal that only effects England.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 09:49 AM

So what will happen if an English motorist travels to a Welsh or Scottish festival? Will they only be charged for the mileage between their starting point and the border?

("Will they 'eck as like!" - Gordon Brown)

And if Scots drive from Scotland to a Welsh festival, forced as they will be to go via England, will they have to pay for the English leg of their journey, or will they get off the mileage charge (pardon the pun) Scot free?

("Will they 'eck as like!" - Gordon Brown)

(The more I find out about this proposed mileage charge, the more I think it will be doomed to disastrous failure - which would make me laugh, except that we taxpayers will have to foot the bill for this government's almight cockups as usual)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,Heed
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 09:09 AM

Just a note to say that any road pricing per journey will only take place in england, if it is introduced by the British parlaiment in Westminter. The Scottish and Welsh parliaments have control over transport policy for their nations, not Westminster, and have stated that there are no plans to introduce such schemes. Therefore, you should only be affected if you travel to festivals in england. More info can be found here:

http://www.thecep.org.uk/news/ViewItem.asp?Entry=1494

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 08:26 AM

>> most of them thought he was a great guy<<

Well I am not one of them.

That makes two of us, Villan :-)

But sadly, it seems most people do think he and Blair are 'great guys', as they keep on voting them back in, election after election...
:-(

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 07:35 AM

LOL I like that

>> most of them thought he was a great guy<<

Well I am not one of them.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Bluegrassman
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 06:11 AM

Many years ago a young Scots lad named Gordon bought a donkey from an old farmer for £100.

The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day, but when the farmer arrived he hung his head and said, "The donkey's on the truck, but I have some bad news...he's dead."

Gordon replied, "Well then, just gimme my money back."

The farmer said, "I can't do that. I went and spent it already."
Gordon said, "Och then, just unload the donkey anyway".

The farmer asked, "What are you going to do with him?"

Gordon said, "I'm gonna raffle him off."
To which the farmer exclaimed, "You can't raffle off a dead donkey!"
But Gordon, with a big smile on his face, said "Sure I can. Jes' watch me. I won't tell anybody that he's dead."

A month later the farmer met up with Gordon and asked, "What happened with that dead donkey?"

Gordon said, "I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two pounds a piece and made a profit of £698.00."

Totally amazed, the farmer asked, "Didn't anyone complain that you had stolen their money because you lied about the donkey being dead?"

Gordon replied, "The only guy who found out about the donkey being dead was the raffle winner, when he came to claim his prize.

So I gave him his £2 back plus £200 extra, which is double the going value of a donkey, so he thought I was a great guy."

Gordon grew up and eventually became the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and no matter how many times he lied or how much money he stole from British voters, as long as he gave them back some of the stolen money, most of them thought he was a great guy.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 06:00 AM

he can only dictate over England on policy

"Dictate" being the operative word in Blair's case :-(

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Atkins
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:31 PM

As Blair gave devolution to Wales & Scotland he can only dictate over England on policy .Scotland Wales their opinions and views then ?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:21 AM

Maybe they're incandescent with rage at the idea?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Atkins
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:44 PM

Oops Growing, not Glowing above .A frodian slip on my part 8>)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Atkins
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:24 PM

Reading todays Telegraph Front Page. "A glowing Labour revolt agaihst the idea and serious doubts about the technology to be used"
Correct, Sat Nav needs signal and they dont work thrugh tower blocks,one sat above no way will could it work !
Mine doesnt work in London.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 03:51 AM

oops I let the cat out the bag :-)

Iraq

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:26 PM

Iran?????

Do you know something that I don't, Villan, or are you implying (not unreasonably) that as pro-Iranian militias already hold sway in much of Basra, that Basra is effectively part of Iran already?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 02:58 PM

I don't mind our kid

Anyway, why do you think Tony Blair is bringing the troops back from Iran !!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:38 AM

Good point Chris!

Apologies in advance to the good people of Birmingham :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:14 AM

It may not be a good idea to write about ways in which they can do it. They probably don't know themselves. Lets not give them ideas for free!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:46 AM

Yes, John Humphrys on R4 this morning said someone had emailed him to say something similar - he asked whether his email spam filter knew something he didn't, regarding anything communicated by Blair :-)

I haven't seen my Blair email yet, so I assume it was also binned on arrival.

What I want to know is: how will they pilot it? Who in their right mind will volunteer? Or will they just say "everyone in Birmingham will have GPS fitted to their cars at their expense and be charged per mile, while the rest of the country continues to enjoy motoring relatively free of government interference and extra charge"?

Unless they intend to pay people to take part in the trial, and pay them more than they expect to collect in fees?

Does anyone know how this will be done in practice?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:34 AM

LOL
I have just had Tony Blair's e-mail concerning the bill

My e-mail software put it in the junk folder. And there was me thinking that software wasn,t intelligent :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 07:13 PM

Instead of worrying ourselves silly because we're obsessed with our cars (yes, I've got one too!), what about starting a petition instead in support of those who've just had their train fares increased by whopping amounts? I recently read in the Kent Messenger that tickets from Staplehurst to London are to be increased by 11%! If you increase motoring costs by a fraction of that amount, you get the industry-backed road lobby screaming blue murder and threatening disruption.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: My guru always said
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 06:31 PM

Could be Democracy of course.
My opinion is that there are a lot of people in the UK who:
Don't think it'll actually happen
Cannot access / don't use the internet
Think it's an email scam
Some other equally viable reason

BTW, this figure of 65 million, is that just voters?
Does it include all the people who don't have a car?
Children / Teenagers?
OAP's who have given up driving?
Joyriders without licences?
Mobility impaired people without their own transport?

There are a lot of people of the opinion that if it doesn't affect them, then it doesn't matter. Ah well.....

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: danensis
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 03:32 PM

Of course people who are in favour of government policy don't sign petitions. So that's 1 million against making 65 million in favour. Democracy in action?

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 09:48 AM

Especially as we reckon there were a lot more people who would have signed the petition, but for the rule that only one person can vote from the same computer.

For example, my wife tried to sign the petition from our home PC but couldn't, because the govt checks the IP address to prevent spammers block voting. But doing this prevents a lot of legitimate users from signing too.

So you could probably assume a lot more people (prevented from signing the petition) could be added to the total number of people who won't vote for Labour next time.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 09:41 AM

I wonder whether the government, when they ignore the petition signatories (as they are quite likely to do), realise that the petition contains a list in excess of 2 million voters who probable wont be voting for them next election. If you add all the signatories, for all the petitions, together that becomes quite a few voters they are likely to lose.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:11 AM

If the aim really is to reduce congestion, rather than raise more revenue,...

[hollow laugh] :-{

This has been mentioned on another thread, but why not just raise the minimum driving age from 17 to 25, for starters?

They could allow those already over 17 to continue, but not allow any new drivers after the law is introduced.

It would cut the number of drivers on the roads at a stroke... ah, but Gordon Brown would lose their car tax revenue, wouldn't he? So that's a non-starter then.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: My guru always said
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 07:51 AM

Program is on Tonight, tonight on ITV1 8-8.30pm, wonder what approach they'll take. Website petition closes tomorrow as I recall.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Atkins
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 07:46 PM

I will be watching UK ITV 1 on 19-Feb-07 8.00 PM in The UK. Road Price Protest Tonight Prog.
19 years of migration to England under Blair and we all pay the the price of the problem caused .Not my place to do polotics on this thread, but see the footage delayed by a week for some reason !

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: danensis
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:48 PM

If the aim really is to reduce congestion, rather than raise more revenue, then one idea would be to have GMT all year round, and let people negotiate their own working hours. Those who want to travel at the busy times could do so, whereas those who want to get up early and miss the rush, and then have the benefit of the long evenings can do that.

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 12:40 PM

It will probably be likemobile phones. You will get charged at least twice as much.

Maybe you will have to pay for your French miles before you are allowed on the boat or train. That would be a good idea, becuase you would want to pay, just to get on board.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 12:10 PM

A question occurred to me about this proposed mileage charge:

Supposing I took my car to France (Dover - Calais) and came back from (say) Le Havre to Portsmouth.

Would the mileage charge include the miles I drive in France, or would I be charged for a drive I didn't do, from Dover - Portsmouth?

Or both?

Have the great brains of our esteemed lords and masters thought of this?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:45 AM

I was thinking today how many things waste electricity, that most people would be happy to do without. For example, those illuminated or moving advertising displays outside supermarkets, at bus stops, o hoardings, etc.

Why not ban stuff like that first? The only people who would really miss these would be the people who sell them.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 06:25 PM

surely the issue is to get people to think differently of their own CHOICE not force them into doing what some hypocrite in the government thinks might get them more votes for G Brown.It is all about freedom of choice and education. I wonder what the various wars that we are involved in are doing to the environment, let alone what it's doing to the victims and their families. sorry I didn't reply Grab-no I don't live in Cambridgeshire

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 10:07 AM

There seem to be two different issues here - the first, people who "have" to drive to work - I wonder how many people drive to an office and spend all day on the computer or the phone - things they could just as easily do from home, and how many goods on our roads are really essential, or are things being moved round in a long chain of production that could better be done in one place.

I agree that many jobs could probably be done at home, but even if they can, many employers are opposed to the idea as they like to keep their beady eyes on their staff to make sure they don't slack.

My argument is that we should be trying to localise jobs, shops, etc., as they used to be, to reduce people's need to travel. 100 years ago everyone walked to work, and they had local shops and otehr facilities, so they didn't need cars (not that most could afford them anyway). Getting back to a localised economy would help. A mileage tax, not on people, but goods and supplies (e.g. a tax on 'food miles') would help to achieve this.

The second issue is folk performers, who have to drive from gig to gig. Looking at many performers' web sites, they don't seem to give much consideration to logistics. I see people playing in gigs hundreds of miles apart on successive nights. Perhaps a little better planning by event organisers and performers could lead to some economies for both sides?

I agree, but I suspect that apart from a handful of big name acts, most folk artists have to take work where they can, and don't have much room for negotiating dates, etc. I agree it's crazy when you see an artist have gigs in (say) Torquay, Newcastle, Dover and Blackpool (I made that up, but I've seen similar schedules in real life) on consecutive nights. Most of the money they make from the gigs must be cancelled out by the travel, not to mention the tiredness from all that travelling.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: danensis
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 09:57 AM

There seem to be two different issues here - the first, people who "have" to drive to work - I wonder how many people drive to an office and spend all day on the computer or the phone - things they could just as easily do from home, and how many goods on our roads are really essential, or are things being moved round in a long chain of production that could better be done in one place.

The second issue is folk performers, who have to drive from gig to gig. Looking at many performers' web sites, they don't seem to give much consideration to logistics. I see people playing in gigs hundreds of miles apart on successive nights. Perhaps a little better planning by event organisers and performers could lead to some economies for both sides?

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 09:49 AM

All this angst about vehicle emissions ---!!! What if mount Vesuvius blows ( which it is projected to do quite soon ) ?? That event would probably put,into the atmosphere, more pollutant gases in 24 hours than all the world"s motor-cars have done since they were invented !!So why aren"t Greenpeace & friends trying to find a way to prevent volcanic eruptions ?? It isn"t just Vesuvius ,of course----there are other,some even more potentially devastating, "events" that are statistically overdue !!
My partner bought a Land-Rover some years ago,and we joined the local (Dorset) Land-Rover club, and often went "Green Laning" on Salisbury Plain !! Guess what? ----I only ever got out & turned the hubs ,to engage 4-wheel drive, ONCE !! Didn"t need it,most of the time !!
During the recent snow, over 2000 schools closed because "The pupils' parents can"t get them there " ---Really?? Can"t get there?? In their 4 x 4s ?? !!
Years ago, public transport was MUCH better. I lived,in the 1950s ,in Sussex, although my grandparents were in Henley-on Thames.We would get a 'bus,from Easebourne to Midhurst--another 'bus from Midhurst to Hazlemere--A train (electric) to Guildford---another train ( steam ! ) from Guildford to Reading, and,finally, a 'bus to Henley !! Actually, it didn"t take that long,really ; everything was clean ( except the steam-train !! ),there were no problems with graffiti,or yobbos,or rude,uncaring staff,or trains delayed or cancelled because of frost or wet leaves !! And it was an "Occasion"--- a "Grand Day Out " . The same journey today would be an "Ordeal" ,I imagine,assuming that it was possible !! No thanks,we have a car, and we will continue to use it for our regular festival attendances --we can get all our gear,instruments,tent,etc.in the back, & if it"s a "One-Nighter", like Towersey or Wallingford,we push the seats forward,& sleep in the back !! ( Old Renault Scenic )---- I did try going half the way to Miskin by train once,but NEVER AGAIN !! And if the government bring in all these dreaded penalties,restrictions,and hindrances, I shall look for devilishly cunning ways to beat the system !! That is,of course, if we are NOT all under ten feet of volcanic ash !!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:41 AM

Aye, it's not conducive, is that, Villan (as Mrs Brandon might say).

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:36 AM

>>But will it be taxed according to how long it takes, I wonder?
<<

Well Scrump, thats a very interesting one. I suppose blokes would be able to keep the costs down as their fame goes before them. 10 seconds and out. LOL

Not sure that women would want that tax on time, especially if us blokes are looking at our watches and saying "But dear, thats another 10 seconds gone - thats just cost us another £10".

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 07:48 AM

"i'm safe in my huge 4 x 4"

.... except when you go round corners too fast and roll over ...

The old Subaru has had 4WD in a normal sedan (not a huge deathtrap - 4WDs/SUVs don't have to meet normal passenger car collision safety standards, thus are less safe!!!) for decades.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 07:33 AM

So Villan, they'll even be able to tax that! It's a chancellor's dream - Gordon Brown must be having an orgasm just thinking about all that luvverly dosh flowing into his coffers.

But will it be taxed according to how long it takes, I wonder?

:-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 07:25 AM

I could see the advantages for trying to cut out STD

Just imagine having one inserted in both male and female privates.

it could be programmed to recognise who is having it off with whom.

Just think of it.
Code 1 and code 2 are married to each other. So having a bit with each other is fine.

Code 2 decides that a bit more on the side is needed. So code 2 visits code 007 and has a bit on the side.

Code 1 suddenly gets a bleep on their tracker, and she presses play.

It then says Code 2 is mating with code 007 and code 007 has got a dose of this and that. This will then be recorded for evidence using bluetooth technology on to the laptop in code onesbottom which automatically prints it out from code ones stomach, which is then given to code 2 on arrival home and read it.

Amazing :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 06:02 AM

But what if you left your card at home? How about everyone just has a bar code tattooed on their forehead, and a GPS tracker implanted under their skin. If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about, right?

Yes, I was getting to that. A much better idea. The only problem we would have is being mugged and having our ID surgically removed for use by illegal immigrants, who would then take over our identity immediately. We would become non-persons instantly and have no way to get our identity back.

A small risk and well worth taking for the benefits to our country.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Cath
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:53 AM

I wonder how many people who object to being monitored alrady drive around with Sat Nav and mobile phones in their cars?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,Alexis (baht cookie)
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 01:20 PM

Surely morris dancers will get exemption like PEL?

Incidently, the exact method of how traffic will be monitored has yet to be decided. Several firms operating in the UK reckon they have the technology to do it, but there are differing methods and until there is a trial to prove its possible, it aint going nowhere.
Alexis

good for scaremongering though

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 01:03 PM

But what if you left your card at home? How about everyone just has a bar code tattooed on their forehead, and a GPS tracker implanted under their skin. If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about, right?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:25 AM

Instead of fitting cars with electronic tags that can be monitored by satellite, why don't they kill two birds with one stone, and fit the proposed ID cards with them, so everybody's movements will be known to the government at all times, whether in our cars or not?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:09 AM

Or is it only us who have to pay to travel in our own country?

Seeing as I live in Kent, very near the M20, I just wondered the same. Not only the visitors and holiday makers but the thousands upon thousands of continental lorries that pound and batter our local roads and motorways, normally having filled up to the brim in France and not paying the exhorbitant road fund licence that British trucks have to pay, and thereby paying nothing toward the cost of the upkeep of said roads. The situation is already a farce if you ask me.

John Barden

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 10:27 AM

MGAS
I agree with you and in the context of the folk clubs, it will have a major effect. I don't know if I am correct on this, but the heavy costs are surely related to peak times.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 09:59 AM

Or is it only us who have to pay to travel in our own country?

Probably :-(

That's probably something they haven't even thought of. (I admit I hadn't)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,Black Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 09:52 AM

Re. the mileage cost. As I understand it, the proposal is that our cars will have to be fitted (at our cost) with GPS systems. If a tourist (American, French, Dutch etc etc) visits for a holiday, how does the government propose to collect from them. Or is it only us who have to pay to travel in our own country?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: My guru always said
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 09:47 AM

Villan: completely understand your personal position but can't help but wonder what impact this proposed tax would have on your club performers and audience.

As previously mentioned, lugging instruments around on public transport isn't particularly convenient for most performers. Any extra costs incurred in transportation would obviously need to absorbed into the fees.

Also, perhaps audience members, however loyal, would not be keen on paying extra taxes. It would certainly make people think before travelling for any distance, even in rural areas, so the club may suffer as a result.

Just a thought as my initial post on this thread was about travelling to festivals, but would include away visits to clubs too.