Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Grab
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:56 PM

Chris, you wouldn't happen to live in Cambridge, would you? And know a couple of blokes called Phil and Steve? (Just that I know a Chris with an ancient Landie, so it seemed a bit of a coincidence... :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 06:39 PM

...and now, to make their appearance possible, the musicians must add an extra charge onto the fee they must get from the festival. That will make the festival stop hiring anyone who isn't a huge draw. Those musicians will not be able to secure enough of the piddling little gigs they need to make music a viable way to provide sustenance for themselves and theirs. Indeed, they already are living in their cars on the gigging road 365 days a year.

This means the end of all of it, not just the festivals, does it not?

Art

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Big Phil
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 08:50 PM

A message to all you green tree hugging wazaks out there. I drive a
4 x 4 and am proud to, 3.2 litres of wonderful diesel power, will pull up to 3 tons, will not get stuck in 1 inch of snow, nice and high driving position so you can see over the hedges as you travel, no problem in muddy fields, Asda car parks or any car park come to think, in the event of an accident, stuff you greenies on your push bikes, i'm safe in my huge 4 x 4 isnt life grand........
Now as the UK produces 2% of the worlds polution, with the USA, China and india producing almost 80%, come on you greeny wazaks and give me a reason for giving up my 4 x 4. You green clowns out there must realise times have moved on, folk like their own transport, they like door to door travel, they do not like standing in the rain, snow, fog, and wind waiting for so called public transport. Remember [judge me in 5 years I will sort out public transport] clown Prescott, well done mate you made it a damn site bloody worse..
The best thing we can do about the £1.50 per mile road tax is REBELL remember the poll tax in Scotland, did not last two lond did it..
So in conclusion, for my green tree hugging, world saving, sandal wearing clowns, stick to your walking, public transport or beaming round the place. [beam me up Scoty]as you live on a different planet to me.........STUFF YOU ALL..... 4 X 4 FOREVER.......

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 06:18 AM

Mmmmm..... 99% anger and vitriol and 1% common sense and consideration for anyone else.

Hardly surprising.

Or is it just trolling time?

Caveman or troll? You choose, readers!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 07:07 AM

I disagree - I think there was a fair amount of sense in there. A rebellion against the mileage charge (a la poll tax) seems a good idea to me. It might be what is needed to get rid of this government that seems to have completely lost touch with the electorate.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 07:34 AM

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 07:35 AM

Ive met jeremy clarkson, hes taller than on the telly, hes about 6 feet tall in real life.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 01:06 PM

Yeah, he's only about a foot tall on the telly, I've measured him on there :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 01:06 PM

Depends on how big your telly is!
G

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Big Phil
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 01:31 PM

melodeonboy,
Not a troll mate, or a caveman just a regular chap who has worked bloody hard for the last 42 years and has now grown fed up with this namby pamby greeny tree loving set of clowns who now have the audacity to try to tell me what motor car I may or may not drive.
Try to get it into your greeny loving head that whatever we do here in the UK will make not one iota of difference to the worlds so called polloution problems, FACT.
I have an idea, you go about your greeny tree hugging planet saving route, I will go mine, no problem.
What if I tried to stop you wearing your plastic sandles, what if I tried to stop you hugging trees, what if I tried to stop you living life as you see the norm, YOU would be PISSED off, just as I am with you and your lot of uneducated clowns trying to tell me how to live my life. A bit of advice mate, GET YOUR SELF A LIFE.
4 X 4 FOREVER, the larger and heavier and more powerfull the better.
Yours in diesel fumes,
Phil*

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Big Phil
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:50 AM

a

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: My guru always said
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 05:28 AM

This has been in the news again recently, here's the On-Line Petition!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 06:19 AM

Depends on how big your telly is!

Yes, but you'd need a bloody big telly (with over 6ft tall screen) to be taller than the real life bloke.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 12:43 PM

Refresh so all three threads about the propsed mileage charge adn petition are on screen....

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 04:41 PM

After all Big Phil, what have our grandchildren never done for us? Why should we worry what kind of world we leave to them? Sod the little bleeders...

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 04:53 PM

"A bit of advice mate, GET YOUR SELF A LIFE."

I have one. It's a life for my kids and grandkids that I'm concerned about, and wankers like you take away their future.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 03:32 AM

Yes, all very well being witty, but the posters on the other two threads are ignoring the facts. The petition is right about what the government is proposing, and the facts can be found by chasing the links here. So the government statements this weekend are not accurate. We are being lied to by our "leaders" again.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: My guru always said
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:21 AM

Thanks for refreshing this Richard, and for trying to keep it on track.

It really is a serious subject here in the UK and just another example of someone having what they think is a good plan which can create all sorts of problems in peoples lives by becoming legislation. Please UK Catters, have a think about this and what it could do to our way of life and sign the petition here if you agree, deadline by 20th February!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:57 AM

I've contributed to the other 2 threads and I have signed. I'm trying to chase the links so that I fully understand what it's all about. Richard is right about the being lied to.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Lynn W
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 06:44 PM

I have looked for the other two threads to "chase the links" but cannot immediately see them - this article (today's front page Sunday Post)seems to suggest that the claims in the chain email are not true -
http://www.dcthomson.co.uk/mags/post/news1.htm
Sorry, have forgotten how to do blue clicky!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 02:13 AM

I haven't signed. I don't use my car much and I live in a rural area and I don't travel in rushhour and I hardly ever use the motorways and I do not work and I don't get anything from the job centre becuase I haven't signed on.

So why should I have to pay.

I just hope I don't get hit with a bill for what other people use.

As far as tracking is concerned, that doesn't bother me, as I have nothing to hide.

I think some of you are voting against it without really understanding the full impact.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:03 AM

I don't particularly enjoy driving, although it can be pleasant in certain circumstances. Mostly, though, I need my car to get around, not just to gigs but for other purposes.

People need their cars because the government (not just this one, but they are just as bad as their Tory predecessors) have been continually creating an economic climate whereby it's no longer considered important to provide local facilities. Schools, police stations and hospitals have been and are still being closed. Town centre shops are being replaced by out of town retail parks. The goods and food sold in these places is often flown from thousands of miles away, or trucked hundreds of miles along our roads. Many people have to travel long distances to work - the days when people lived near the factory or mill are mostly gone.

All this increases people's dependency on their cars, because in most cases (outside of cities) public transport is inadequate.

I believe what we as a society should be trying to do is to get back to a local economy: food produced locally by local farmers, local hospitals, schools, shops, etc. Doing this would also help create local jobs. The intention should be to reduce peoples' need to travel.

Instead of trying to tax 'motorists' (read: ordinary people trying to go about their legitimate daily business), they should be introducing a mileage tax on food, drink, and other goods.

Then it will become more attractive, for example, for the supermarkets to source fruit, veg and meat locally instead of shipping it hundreds or even thousands of miles. Breweries such as Greene King would find it less attractive to take over and close down other breweries, and ship tankers full of beer (95% water) hundreds of miles. Local industries could start up again to supply goods to local markets.

More hospitals, police stations and schools should be opened. Yes, these will cost us, but they will also create jobs locally, and reduce the number of people on the roads.

So I'm opposed to the proposed mileage tax on drivers, because I think there are better things the government can do.

And, as I've said before, I don't think the government's main motivation in proposing this tax is to benefit the environment (that's what they say, but when did you take anything this or any previous government says at face value?). It has more to do with this government's obsession with controlling people's everyday lives - the in-car GPS/mileage meters would allow them to know exactly where you are at all times. And of course there would be all that lovely extra tax for Mr Brown to squander on more ill-conceived schemes (he must be salivating at the thought).

No doubt there are objections to some of the above, but maybe it will open up further discussions.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: My guru always said
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 09:47 AM

Villan: completely understand your personal position but can't help but wonder what impact this proposed tax would have on your club performers and audience.

As previously mentioned, lugging instruments around on public transport isn't particularly convenient for most performers. Any extra costs incurred in transportation would obviously need to absorbed into the fees.

Also, perhaps audience members, however loyal, would not be keen on paying extra taxes. It would certainly make people think before travelling for any distance, even in rural areas, so the club may suffer as a result.

Just a thought as my initial post on this thread was about travelling to festivals, but would include away visits to clubs too.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,Black Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 09:52 AM

Re. the mileage cost. As I understand it, the proposal is that our cars will have to be fitted (at our cost) with GPS systems. If a tourist (American, French, Dutch etc etc) visits for a holiday, how does the government propose to collect from them. Or is it only us who have to pay to travel in our own country?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 09:59 AM

Or is it only us who have to pay to travel in our own country?

Probably :-(

That's probably something they haven't even thought of. (I admit I hadn't)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 10:27 AM

MGAS
I agree with you and in the context of the folk clubs, it will have a major effect. I don't know if I am correct on this, but the heavy costs are surely related to peak times.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:09 AM

Or is it only us who have to pay to travel in our own country?

Seeing as I live in Kent, very near the M20, I just wondered the same. Not only the visitors and holiday makers but the thousands upon thousands of continental lorries that pound and batter our local roads and motorways, normally having filled up to the brim in France and not paying the exhorbitant road fund licence that British trucks have to pay, and thereby paying nothing toward the cost of the upkeep of said roads. The situation is already a farce if you ask me.

John Barden

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:25 AM

Instead of fitting cars with electronic tags that can be monitored by satellite, why don't they kill two birds with one stone, and fit the proposed ID cards with them, so everybody's movements will be known to the government at all times, whether in our cars or not?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 01:03 PM

But what if you left your card at home? How about everyone just has a bar code tattooed on their forehead, and a GPS tracker implanted under their skin. If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about, right?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,Alexis (baht cookie)
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 01:20 PM

Surely morris dancers will get exemption like PEL?

Incidently, the exact method of how traffic will be monitored has yet to be decided. Several firms operating in the UK reckon they have the technology to do it, but there are differing methods and until there is a trial to prove its possible, it aint going nowhere.
Alexis

good for scaremongering though

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Cath
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:53 AM

I wonder how many people who object to being monitored alrady drive around with Sat Nav and mobile phones in their cars?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 06:02 AM

But what if you left your card at home? How about everyone just has a bar code tattooed on their forehead, and a GPS tracker implanted under their skin. If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about, right?

Yes, I was getting to that. A much better idea. The only problem we would have is being mugged and having our ID surgically removed for use by illegal immigrants, who would then take over our identity immediately. We would become non-persons instantly and have no way to get our identity back.

A small risk and well worth taking for the benefits to our country.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 07:25 AM

I could see the advantages for trying to cut out STD

Just imagine having one inserted in both male and female privates.

it could be programmed to recognise who is having it off with whom.

Just think of it.
Code 1 and code 2 are married to each other. So having a bit with each other is fine.

Code 2 decides that a bit more on the side is needed. So code 2 visits code 007 and has a bit on the side.

Code 1 suddenly gets a bleep on their tracker, and she presses play.

It then says Code 2 is mating with code 007 and code 007 has got a dose of this and that. This will then be recorded for evidence using bluetooth technology on to the laptop in code onesbottom which automatically prints it out from code ones stomach, which is then given to code 2 on arrival home and read it.

Amazing :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 07:33 AM

So Villan, they'll even be able to tax that! It's a chancellor's dream - Gordon Brown must be having an orgasm just thinking about all that luvverly dosh flowing into his coffers.

But will it be taxed according to how long it takes, I wonder?

:-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 07:48 AM

"i'm safe in my huge 4 x 4"

.... except when you go round corners too fast and roll over ...

The old Subaru has had 4WD in a normal sedan (not a huge deathtrap - 4WDs/SUVs don't have to meet normal passenger car collision safety standards, thus are less safe!!!) for decades.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:36 AM

>>But will it be taxed according to how long it takes, I wonder?
<<

Well Scrump, thats a very interesting one. I suppose blokes would be able to keep the costs down as their fame goes before them. 10 seconds and out. LOL

Not sure that women would want that tax on time, especially if us blokes are looking at our watches and saying "But dear, thats another 10 seconds gone - thats just cost us another £10".

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:41 AM

Aye, it's not conducive, is that, Villan (as Mrs Brandon might say).

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 09:49 AM

All this angst about vehicle emissions ---!!! What if mount Vesuvius blows ( which it is projected to do quite soon ) ?? That event would probably put,into the atmosphere, more pollutant gases in 24 hours than all the world"s motor-cars have done since they were invented !!So why aren"t Greenpeace & friends trying to find a way to prevent volcanic eruptions ?? It isn"t just Vesuvius ,of course----there are other,some even more potentially devastating, "events" that are statistically overdue !!
My partner bought a Land-Rover some years ago,and we joined the local (Dorset) Land-Rover club, and often went "Green Laning" on Salisbury Plain !! Guess what? ----I only ever got out & turned the hubs ,to engage 4-wheel drive, ONCE !! Didn"t need it,most of the time !!
During the recent snow, over 2000 schools closed because "The pupils' parents can"t get them there " ---Really?? Can"t get there?? In their 4 x 4s ?? !!
Years ago, public transport was MUCH better. I lived,in the 1950s ,in Sussex, although my grandparents were in Henley-on Thames.We would get a 'bus,from Easebourne to Midhurst--another 'bus from Midhurst to Hazlemere--A train (electric) to Guildford---another train ( steam ! ) from Guildford to Reading, and,finally, a 'bus to Henley !! Actually, it didn"t take that long,really ; everything was clean ( except the steam-train !! ),there were no problems with graffiti,or yobbos,or rude,uncaring staff,or trains delayed or cancelled because of frost or wet leaves !! And it was an "Occasion"--- a "Grand Day Out " . The same journey today would be an "Ordeal" ,I imagine,assuming that it was possible !! No thanks,we have a car, and we will continue to use it for our regular festival attendances --we can get all our gear,instruments,tent,etc.in the back, & if it"s a "One-Nighter", like Towersey or Wallingford,we push the seats forward,& sleep in the back !! ( Old Renault Scenic )---- I did try going half the way to Miskin by train once,but NEVER AGAIN !! And if the government bring in all these dreaded penalties,restrictions,and hindrances, I shall look for devilishly cunning ways to beat the system !! That is,of course, if we are NOT all under ten feet of volcanic ash !!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: danensis
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 09:57 AM

There seem to be two different issues here - the first, people who "have" to drive to work - I wonder how many people drive to an office and spend all day on the computer or the phone - things they could just as easily do from home, and how many goods on our roads are really essential, or are things being moved round in a long chain of production that could better be done in one place.

The second issue is folk performers, who have to drive from gig to gig. Looking at many performers' web sites, they don't seem to give much consideration to logistics. I see people playing in gigs hundreds of miles apart on successive nights. Perhaps a little better planning by event organisers and performers could lead to some economies for both sides?

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 10:07 AM

There seem to be two different issues here - the first, people who "have" to drive to work - I wonder how many people drive to an office and spend all day on the computer or the phone - things they could just as easily do from home, and how many goods on our roads are really essential, or are things being moved round in a long chain of production that could better be done in one place.

I agree that many jobs could probably be done at home, but even if they can, many employers are opposed to the idea as they like to keep their beady eyes on their staff to make sure they don't slack.

My argument is that we should be trying to localise jobs, shops, etc., as they used to be, to reduce people's need to travel. 100 years ago everyone walked to work, and they had local shops and otehr facilities, so they didn't need cars (not that most could afford them anyway). Getting back to a localised economy would help. A mileage tax, not on people, but goods and supplies (e.g. a tax on 'food miles') would help to achieve this.

The second issue is folk performers, who have to drive from gig to gig. Looking at many performers' web sites, they don't seem to give much consideration to logistics. I see people playing in gigs hundreds of miles apart on successive nights. Perhaps a little better planning by event organisers and performers could lead to some economies for both sides?

I agree, but I suspect that apart from a handful of big name acts, most folk artists have to take work where they can, and don't have much room for negotiating dates, etc. I agree it's crazy when you see an artist have gigs in (say) Torquay, Newcastle, Dover and Blackpool (I made that up, but I've seen similar schedules in real life) on consecutive nights. Most of the money they make from the gigs must be cancelled out by the travel, not to mention the tiredness from all that travelling.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 06:25 PM

surely the issue is to get people to think differently of their own CHOICE not force them into doing what some hypocrite in the government thinks might get them more votes for G Brown.It is all about freedom of choice and education. I wonder what the various wars that we are involved in are doing to the environment, let alone what it's doing to the victims and their families. sorry I didn't reply Grab-no I don't live in Cambridgeshire

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:45 AM

I was thinking today how many things waste electricity, that most people would be happy to do without. For example, those illuminated or moving advertising displays outside supermarkets, at bus stops, o hoardings, etc.

Why not ban stuff like that first? The only people who would really miss these would be the people who sell them.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 12:10 PM

A question occurred to me about this proposed mileage charge:

Supposing I took my car to France (Dover - Calais) and came back from (say) Le Havre to Portsmouth.

Would the mileage charge include the miles I drive in France, or would I be charged for a drive I didn't do, from Dover - Portsmouth?

Or both?

Have the great brains of our esteemed lords and masters thought of this?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 12:40 PM

It will probably be likemobile phones. You will get charged at least twice as much.

Maybe you will have to pay for your French miles before you are allowed on the boat or train. That would be a good idea, becuase you would want to pay, just to get on board.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: danensis
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:48 PM

If the aim really is to reduce congestion, rather than raise more revenue, then one idea would be to have GMT all year round, and let people negotiate their own working hours. Those who want to travel at the busy times could do so, whereas those who want to get up early and miss the rush, and then have the benefit of the long evenings can do that.

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Atkins
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 07:46 PM

I will be watching UK ITV 1 on 19-Feb-07 8.00 PM in The UK. Road Price Protest Tonight Prog.
19 years of migration to England under Blair and we all pay the the price of the problem caused .Not my place to do polotics on this thread, but see the footage delayed by a week for some reason !

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: My guru always said
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 07:51 AM

Program is on Tonight, tonight on ITV1 8-8.30pm, wonder what approach they'll take. Website petition closes tomorrow as I recall.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:11 AM

If the aim really is to reduce congestion, rather than raise more revenue,...

[hollow laugh] :-{

This has been mentioned on another thread, but why not just raise the minimum driving age from 17 to 25, for starters?

They could allow those already over 17 to continue, but not allow any new drivers after the law is introduced.

It would cut the number of drivers on the roads at a stroke... ah, but Gordon Brown would lose their car tax revenue, wouldn't he? So that's a non-starter then.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 09:41 AM

I wonder whether the government, when they ignore the petition signatories (as they are quite likely to do), realise that the petition contains a list in excess of 2 million voters who probable wont be voting for them next election. If you add all the signatories, for all the petitions, together that becomes quite a few voters they are likely to lose.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 09:48 AM

Especially as we reckon there were a lot more people who would have signed the petition, but for the rule that only one person can vote from the same computer.

For example, my wife tried to sign the petition from our home PC but couldn't, because the govt checks the IP address to prevent spammers block voting. But doing this prevents a lot of legitimate users from signing too.

So you could probably assume a lot more people (prevented from signing the petition) could be added to the total number of people who won't vote for Labour next time.