Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?

Subject: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: My guru always said
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 05:26 AM

Charging cars travelling per mile in the UK? Doesn't it cost enough already - purchase car, MOT, insurance, fuel, parts & stuff? Surely we pay plenty of Tax in there already?

I got a new (ish) car in February this year specifically for pulling the caravan to Folk Festivals in the UK. Despite having it back in the garage for long periods due to a major auto gearbox problem I have managed to do 10,000 miles already this year.

Looking at the amount of festivals we've been to in that time (virtually every weekend) I can safely say that at least 6,000 miles of that was Folk-related. There is no way I can do that if this 'charge per mile' is enforced & I guess most UK Folkies will be in the same boat.

So, does this herald the end of UK Folk Festivals?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 05:47 AM

It will mean that festivals will have to rely on more local attendees, and the festivals like Sidmouth which are in lovely areas, but rely on people travelling long distances to enjoy them, will be the first to go. Anywhere in fact that is not well served by public transport is in peril when this comes to pass.
If the government put all the money it milks from motorists into improving public transport, we would be able to dial a bus like we do a minicab.
Giok

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 05:49 AM

There are lots of things I'd like to do "virtually every weekend" but can't afford to. So you may have to learn to live within your resources.

To me, charging by the mile is the most sensible suggestion there has been for years - at least it would tend to stop people making unnecessary journeys which simply clog up the roads. And as congestion is rapidly increasing, it tends to suggest that it doesn't "cost enough already".

I think maybe that suggesting this would be the end of festivals is something of an overreaction - one could make the same argument for every activity. Over the very long term, if motoring was made too pricey for the majority of people, then leisure motoring would decrease, tending to make people concentrate more within their local community, rather than travelling around to reach entertainment, which surely wouldn't be a bad thing?

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 05:57 AM

The daft thing is, it aint all that difficult.

Those of you who remember the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire will remember our policy of subsidising local transport - buses were the one that people picked up on but in fact trains were always part of it too.

My local route which was very busy - had a double decker bus every six minutes throughout the day and more at rush hour. It was pence to go into town. It was not worth using a car. so people didn't.

The buses had conductors, they were new, it was pleasant to travel. If a bus was full people didn't mind waiting for the next one.

Now we have a conductorless bus (less people employed) which holds up traffic whilst the driver takes fares, it comes at fifteen minute intervals and it costs an arm and a leg for a ten minute journey. Fares are about to go up again to about £1.50.

Mind you I travel free nowadays s0 mustn't grumble too much!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 05:58 AM

All the talk I have seen suggests that other motoring taxes will drop slightly, so the 'typical' person will only pay a slight increase overall. Of course knowing this penny pinching, micromanging chancellor of ours, the typical case will be about as rare as 6 banjo players perfectly in tune with each other, and everyone else will pay an arm and a leg. Through the nose....

And to keep this out of the BS section.

I took the gold pin from the scarf on my bosom,
and said 'Take ye this in rememeberence of me'
But Gordon he stood and he said with a smile
The road and the miles do not come for free.

(Someone do better, please!)

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Gervase
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 07:19 AM

Have to agree with Terry there. As I understand it, the highest charges will be for the busiest roads at the busiest times. Somehow I don't imagine people will be towing their caravans around the M25 at 8.30 on a weekday morning, so I can't see it having much of an impact.
For me the travel costs are the least of the costs of going to festivals - the tickets, the beer, the food and the CDs all add up to a heck of a lot more. I honestly don't know how so many people can afford to go to the number of festivals they do!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 07:25 AM

I nearly joined Friends of the Earth some years back.
But the meetings were 10 miles away, and I didn't feel it right to drive to them.
That doesn't stop me driving to dance clubs.
I suspect we all have similar double standards.

I can remember family holidays by train with suitcases, met by little boys with gocarts plying for hire.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 07:27 AM

What's new? Ihave always paid per mile,travelling by train. I'd quite like motorists to pay the real cost of their journeys.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 07:48 AM

Charge by the mile?

I must not have been paying attention, because I hadn't heard of this, so I had to look it up.

The Observer says the proposal is: Drivers to pay £1.30 per mile.

A fairly recent "conversion" to US equivalents put petrol at about £3 US per gallon. This is probably off a bit, but the exact amount is irrelevant.

One can get a minimotor conveyance that gets perhaps 60 mpg. (miles per US gallon)
Petrol cost = £0.05 per mile

I can also get a monster SUV that gets a bare 10 mpg.
Petrol cost = £0.30 per mile.

Penalty for driving the SUV – per mile expense 6 times as much per mile.

Add a £1.30 per mile tax?

Minimotor = £1.35 per mile
SUV = $1.60 per mile

Penalty for driving the SUV – per mile expense 1.19 times as much instead of 6 times as much.

If an "offset" to the per mile tax is made by reducing petrol taxes, the "penalty" for driving a HumVee becomes proportionately even less.

As the obvious intent is to impose a much larger proportional increment on small, fuel-efficient vehicles, than on large inefficient ones, this is quite obviously intended to get all you annoying "little people" off the main roads so the "fat cats" who already drive around in stretch limos will have it all to themselves.

My numbers are of course pretty sloppy and perhaps a bit extreme; but in the US there is a noticeable tendency for people who commute on toll roads (per mile "fee" added) to use notably larger and heavier (less efficient) vehicles than people who commute similar distances where there are fewer tolls.

An obvious solution to a flat per mile fee is to take a few passengers and share the cost. The £1.30 per mile fee added to a per mile operating cost of £0.05 means it costs 27 times as much to drive your mini as before, so just stuff 26 passengers in and you break even. Passenger weight may increase fuel consumption, so make it 28 passengers(?).

The guy with the 10 mpg tank only has to add 4 passengers to break even (in the absence of any fuel tax reduction.)

In some parts of the US they've created MOV lanes, (Multi-Occupant Vehicles) that may only be used by vehicles carrying more than one person. This provides an additional argument for lots of people to get a slightly larger vehicle than otherwise needed, so that they can car-pool. They may attempt to organize a "pool," but a fair percentage of the pools end up with the members finding that someone "smells bad" in close quarters, so many with now larger cars still end up driving alone – but they had a good "reason" for their lunker when they got it.

All in favor of getting rid of all those pesky little cars say £££££££££££ah ££££££ah HA HA HA.

It might be a justification for working up crews to travel together to festivals in fewer vehicles, which folkers may be able to manage in the UK? In my area the folk density is so low that everybody I know comes from different directions, so it's really hard for us to arrange group trips.

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 07:49 AM

And you will of course be able to hitch your caravan to the back of the subsidised bus, which on arrival at the campsite will back it into your space before going on it's merry way. Hopefully this will be after you have downloaded your instruments from the thoughtfully provided luggage space.
What a load of crap these go by bus and train brigade people spout, have they looked at the price of a train ticket these days, or is it my fault for living in the country, and having arthritis and playing an instrument larger than a fucking penny whistle.
The taxes paid by the poor motorist help to subsidise your bloody Utopian world mate!
Giok.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 08:09 AM

That's a good move by any government. It is discussed over here as well. And BTW you are already charged per mile by the taxes on the petrol. The only question is whether all is charged per mile or only the largest part as it is now.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 08:15 AM

And after we get there on the bus/train, where are we going to sleep? Food? Camping gear? Jeeze....

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 08:33 AM

I get free use of public transport in the Greater London area , but am also a Multi Instrunmentalist - The last time I tried to use Public Transport AND carry two instrument cases ,my 'last Bus' was cancelled at zero notice , leaving me with a nearly five mile walk or get a Taxi - At Midnight !!
If we ARE going to use Buses and Trains instead of our cars , then let us PLEASE have a Public Transport system that is fit for use !

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 08:38 AM

The train fare from where I live to London is £131.50 single. That will buy me 33 gallons of diesel which will transport me about 2013 miles. i.e. There and back again with plenty left in my tank. I can carry another 3 people and their luggage too if I want to.
THAT'S one of the main things that's wrong with public transport, apart from the inconvenience of not delivering you from door to door, or being any good if you need to transport anything bigger than a briefcase, it is far too dear.
Giok

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 08:47 AM

This proposal (the Observer clipping was dated June) seems to rely on ALL cars having government monitored GPS locators on them. This will take some time to impliment.

The figure mentioned is almost certainly an "offer price" so when it comes down to an extra 10p per mile we will think we got a good deal...

Large cars cost about 50p per mile to run already, most of which is NOT fuel tax.

Lots of variables, and the bulk of the proposal is not to reduce carbon emissions but to reduce congestion, so those of us going uncongestedly at funny times will probably not pay the most.

The sky is probably not falling (yet( - but never trust a politician, and remember the government pays for his travel!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 08:50 AM

Despite being young and fit, a festival requires as much stuff as I'd want to carry any real distance. If you're intending to cook for youselves, and the shops are any distance away, it get worse, and that's without a a large instrument to lug about as well.

Of course, this is just a small sub-set of the problems created by the utterly shite state of our entire transport network, which seems to be beyond anyone to fix.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 08:55 AM

Help a poor colonial here. This legislation isn't about creating toll roads, but rather is going to charge you for every mile you drive on your own car??????? If that is the case, it seems to be a ludicrous intrusion on ones life. There are better options available to create incentives for use of public transport that won't penalize folks that live in rural areas or folks that rely on having to use a truck or trailer.

Enlighten me, please. Speak slowly, I'm a Yank.

Mick

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 09:02 AM

Nothing to elighten, Big Mick - you are exactly right. There are talking of charging per mile and on the major highways at peak times a figure of roughly $2 per mile has been bandied about. Apparently this will be good for the economy. Myself, I can't see how large numbers of people being unable to afford to get to work achieves that. There is no suitable public transport route to where my wife and I work and out jobs are roughly 50 miles apart ...

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 09:09 AM

Mick, intrusion into ones private life is exactly what this control mad government is all about. Used to be when you consented to have your fingerprints or a DNA sample taken to eliminate you from a police enquiry, that when the case was solved thes items were destroyed. Not anymore, they're kept and form part of the National Database, whatever that is!
ID cards is something else there are trying to make us all have, and not only that but we each have to pay for it to be issued at a cost quoted as up to an hundred pounds each by some people.
Make no mistake about it my friend we are well on the way to becoming a police state!
Giok

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 09:18 AM

I wonder how long it would take to fix the transport sysytem if all ministers, MPs, and Civil servants were obliged to use public transport to get to work?

Unfortunatly, I can't quite square this with my other idea, the 'Get the Goverment busybodies out of our lives party'...

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Flash Company
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 09:59 AM

First things first, Sheila and I don't drive, have never driven, and don't intend to start.
Having said that, I still think that road charging is about the craziest idea you could come up with. (Well, maybe the craziest transport idea, I can think of a few in other fields that are crazier)
If you are going to make people give up their cars and use public transport you first need to have a reliable public transport system. It is a number of years since I described it to my then boss as 'Pubic Transport' (Every day another cock-up!), but it aint changed. When I read that one of the latest schemes to resolve the problem of overcrowding on commuter trains is to take out half the seats and mke more people stand, I despair.
and if you think I'm getting going a bit about this, you should hear S.

FC

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 10:48 AM

The original "Fare's fair" policy of Ken Livingstone (subsidising public transport and improving it so everyone would use it then there would be fewer cars on the road so the but part of public transport could get through speedily and safely) was one of his better ideas - but the Thatcherite legislation he had to work under enabled a successful court challenge to the obviously sensible policy.

Ho Hum.

I suggest really high fuel taxes, with a part of them being deductible from income taxes (or eligible for benefit if you are on benefits) if you can demonstrate that you need transport to work or obtain necessaries of subsistence.   

Businesses set them off against tax anyway - and non-business car benefits from employers are taxable for the employees, so the circle is squared. I think.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 10:51 AM

Train fares in my area are about to be increased by over 6%. The recent suggested increase in the price of a litre of fuel is, I believe, a little over 1%.

These lop-sided increases in favour of the motorist have been going on for years, which is why a few decades ago it would have sounded strange if someone had said that they were going by car because it was cheaper whereas nowadays many people are effectively priced off the trains.

Without trying to sound self-righteous, the issue is a little wider than just saying "I demand to use my car because it's convenient and I'm going to get upset if I have to pay more for doing so", which seems to be where many people stand on this issue.

I'm a car user of average means, and I use my car for many of the folk clubs, gigs and festivals that I attend/play at. If it's going to cost me more, and the result will be less traffic, a better environment and (ideally, though I'm not holding my breath on this one!) more investment in public transport, then so be it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 11:03 AM

Without trying to sound self-righteous, the issue is a little wider than just saying "I demand to use my car because it's convenient and I'm going to get upset if I have to pay more for doing so", which seems to be where many people stand on this issue.

That may be some people's point, but not mine. There is no suitable public transport to where I work. If I moved, it would simply mean my wife had to travel the same distance instead. The proposed costs would be in excess of £2000 per month, even if petrol was entirely free and there was no road licence. (I don't pay £2000 a month in tax either, Richard!) So there are only two economically viable solutions I can see. Either my wife or I leave work, which doesn't do us or the economy any good, {though of course in time we might find a new position), or, more likely, we buy a second property, because we could buy a quite reasonable property paying maybe £1000 per month. And that's great for the housing shortage, isn't it?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 11:56 AM

>I>The proposed costs would be in excess of £2000 per month, even if petrol was entirely free and there was no road licence.

You must be doing an awful lot of driving on extremely congested roads (even if the maximum quoted rate of £1.30 a mile for such roads is correct) to get to £2000 per month, DMcG.

I'd like to see some kind of direct link to public transport built in, so that there was a system of exemptions built in for people living in places where there was inadequate public transport, as well as a very big extension of services and reduction of fares.
......................................

I don't think I've ever been to a festival where I couldn't carry everything I need without too much difficulty. Most times I go by bus, which is a lot cheaper than train.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 12:08 PM

Yes, I'm afraid I do! Roughly 50 miles each way per day, almost all on motorways at peak time. I would far rather not, but that's what's needed to get to work.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 12:40 PM

Last train back home for me from the fleshpots of Inverness, my nearest large town [60 miles away] leaves there at 17:57. Not much scope there for an evening out is there?
Giok

Timetable

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 02:22 PM

When my parents lived twenty miles away from me , IF I wanted to visit for an evening , the EARLIEST I could get there (By Green Line bus) was ten minutes AFTER the last bus back left !!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: SussexCarole
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 05:53 PM

We worked out that to get to Towersey festival from here - a matter of about 160 miles - we would need to catch a local bus - 2 different trains - then another bus and then a walk of at least 1/2 mile carrying all our camping equipment etc for the weekend. The combined return cost by public transport would be approx £150. Even allowing for the toll across the Severn bridge our car journey wouldn't cost more than £40.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 06:49 PM

Now you understand the wisdom of the American decision to pull out of the Kyoto protocol.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 07:39 PM

This proposal include tourists?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Atkins
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 10:03 PM

Sussex Carole so right.Years ago I was paid public transport rate for travel and it was the same cost as petrol so used the car. Not so today. Yesterday all trains at Waterloo had all been washed though !!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Bert
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 11:46 PM

UK Charge per mile - AW! don't worry there aren't THAT many miles IN the UK. *HEE HEE*

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 04:35 AM

"Now you understand the wisdom of the American decision to pull out of the Kyoto protocol."

All you do by that remark Guest, is demonstrate your total ignorance of the causes of global warming, in the same way as the idiots who would not sign the Kyoto Protocol on America's behalf.

Giok

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,taxijohn
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 06:21 AM

If government wants people to use public transport, then they have to put in place a coordinated system that is proved to work. This would have to include thro' ticketing from pickup to drop off.
I drive a cab in rural lincolnshire, this would mean that i would have onboard computerised route planning & ticketing, ie:- you get in my cab in market rasen to go to sidmouth, i put in the destination & the computer would issue a ticket with entire route on including all changes & one price for the lot, i would then transport you to the next change point to meet the connection. The overall organisation would then charge your credit card for the entire journey, & pay me for my part!! It could be done but is any government going to take it on, i think not?
It would have to have built in garauntees such as getting you from any one point in uk mainland to any other point in mainland in under 24hrs, & move an entire familly for no more than the cost of the same journey in a 1400cc car.
The major cause of conjestion in uk are:-
1 people travelling far too far to work.
2 using cars for school runs of under 2 miles
3 duplication of buisness mileage
4 vehicles getting larger every year, therefore taking up more physical space on the road.

Any thoughts? ( the term bucket & worms comes to mind!! )

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: bill\sables
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 06:26 AM

I must agree with Giok, I run a ceilidh band and we play at least once every weekend somewhere in Yorkshire or Lincolnshire. I carry a pair of speakers, mixer amp, speaker and mic stands, monitor amp and speakers, case of cables, lighting equipment and occasionaly an extra pair of speakers for large venues. Add to this a few instruments. Some of our venues are village or church halls or hotels, others are stately homes with mile long drives and still others are farm marquees in the middle of fields.
If the government can get me a bus who will pick me up at home with all of the gear then drive over and pick up Sam Pirt, our accordeon player, then drive to Northampton to collect our fiddler and then deliver us to our venue in time to do sound checks and play for the evening and last of all pick us all up after midnight and take us all back home again. I will gladly give up my car.
It seems to me that this government thinks we all work in an office, shop, or school and don't have to carry large ammounts of luggage, even car tax is cheeper for small cars with the capacity to carry a brief case or pile of books, but what about the self employed people who carry the tools of their trade like carpenters, plumbers, electricians and musicians, are we expected to pass this extra tax on to our customers. In the case of our band it would increase the cost of a ceilidh by at least £300.
And of course when this tax is introduced I will predict that within a year the bastards will change our miles into kilometers and so be able to double the tax.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 06:39 AM

It's clear to me that the real reason for introducing a mileage tax, as opposed to a simple increase in fuel tax, has nothing to do with helping the environment, and has everything to do with government intrusion into people's personal lives - something this government seems obsessed with.

If the aim is to encourage people to make fewer journeys, a straightforward increase in fuel taxes would have that effect, and would cost absolutely nothing to implement - unlike the costly process of installing computers in every single vehicle, with satellites and systems to monitor every individual's vehicle useage.

Once this system, is in place, the government will not only be able to charge you by the mile, but they will know exactly where you are whenever you go out in your car. They will be able to detect if you are speeding, by measuring the time taken to complete any stage of a journey (between any two points) and calculating the average speed, even taking account of stops at motorway service stations and the like.

George Orwell didn't know the half of it!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 06:58 AM

Increase in fuel tax as such fails to take account of WHEN one is driving or WHERE one is driving. My proposal with partially deductible fuel tax (which some seem not to have read with sufficient attention) cannot deal with these variables, but is otherwise appropriately progressive and hugely less invasive.

If my mmory serves me the data protection moguls have queried government collecting all that data too..., but politically "the right to speed" does not go over well!

Of course, if speed limits were sensible, eg 90 on motorways and not less than 50 on rural B roads (I live near an A road with no villages on it where the speed limit is 40(!) which is why everyone breaks it. If it was 50 a few might observe it) I might even approve of average speed cameras.

How about a black market in duplicate bugs you can leave at home while you go out with the spy in your car turned off??

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 07:17 AM

"all ministers, MPs, and Civil servants were obliged to use public transport to get to work?"

I'm a Civil Servant (OK, stop laughing now...) but I cannot drive to work, even though it would be cheaper and quicker for me. I cannot drive because there is nowhere to park at the other end. Many Government buildings are in the centre of towns and cities, where parking is at a premium. Despite the traditional image, CS's don't get everything laid on for them from the cradle to the grave. We have no parking spaces unless we can give strong business need for driving to work (disability, use of car for work etc), we have to fight for our jobs just like anyone else, and it's getting harder and harder to move upwards or relocate (unless you want to move to some godforsaken place where the ground rent is dirt cheap).

Travelling on public transport is fraught with other problems. It's overcrowded, it's dirty, it's subject to frequent delays and it's a great big target for terrorists - remember July 7th?! If one car breaks down, only a few people are inconvenienced. If it crashes, only a few people are injured. If one train breaks down, as many as 300 people are delayed. If it crashes (or is bombed), 300 people are affected. Is it any wonder people would rather drive?

I'm not an advocate of the 'drive everywhere and screw the ozone' theory, but if they are going to insist on these measures, then they MUST put in place a public transport system to all areas before they implement it.

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: My guru always said
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:34 AM

Big Brother, so true! Possible alibi's from criminals having their car with the black box taken elsewhere?

Business opportunities:
Caravan hire at airports, railway & bus stations
More car hire at railway & bus stations
Expansion of insurance companies to cover all this hire
Hire of tents/sleeping bags from Festival organisers
Additional marquees for Festival dormitories
Compulsory caravan driving testing/licensing prior to hiring

Interesting comments from all for & against - lots more to come I imagine....

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:50 AM

Liz

Problem is that those who dream up these ideas are probably toward the top of the tree and do have the transport laid on. Remember the famous journey of old Two Jags? Got on the train with a load of press fanfare, got off at the next station down and swanned off in his chauffeur driven car.

Who was the minister who used the coach/taxi lane on the M4 a few years back?

You can bet your life that those are the people who will, for the best possible reasons of course, be exempt from this new tax.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: breezy
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 09:14 AM

It wont happen, if it does noone will go anywhere because it will be financially impossible

Everything would cost much more

Businesses would go under

Kids wont go to school

Teachers wont be able to afford to go to work

I cant ever see it coming to pass

If so

Life will slow to a standstill and there will be economic ruin

and the day of the horse will return

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 09:53 AM

Oh no! Just think of all that Budweiser!
G.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 09:55 AM

They are prepared ...

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:53 PM

"It wont happen, if it does noone will go anywhere because it will be financially impossible"

Well, I don't have a car and I get to work Ok, I have also been to well over a dozen festivals this year, which is as many as I can afford beer for! You can keep transport costs down by going to fairly local festivals (luckily I live in Yorkshire with a great choice of festivals), or by buying your train tickets in advance and getting cheap deals, or by going to Irish festivals (£22 to fly to Shannon and a couple of quid for the bus to Ennis, or £55 the whole way on the bus if you want to be greener).
It does influence the sort of festivals I go to - camping is pretty much out of the question now as due to advancing years it is too much of a struggle with all my backpacking gear plus fiddle and concertina. So greenfield sites are out, but I prefer a town based festival anyway as I like a choice of comfortable pub sessions instead of a draughty tent. What you spend on B+B, you save on not running a car, which is not just the petrol costs but depreciation, repairs, etc. Driving and camping will always be cheaper for large families or groups, but for single and couples there should not be much difference.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Grab
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 05:30 PM

I still think fuel duty is the best way of doing it. That follows the "polluter pays" principle, which is what you want. Compare 100 miles in a two-axle SUV and 100 miles in a Toyota Prius: the truck will be using around five times the fuel, and hence five times the pollution.

This isn't really the "end" of anything. The major problem they're talking about is people overusing certain key points in the road network - we're not talking that price per mile for an entire trip. Get people to travel some other way, or charge for travelling the direct way, and it'll share the load out. Remember that the M6 toll road has worked very well.

The major problem is getting into the US long-commute mindset. When Cambridge is being touted as within commuting distance of London, you know things are going a bit too far.

I'm not convinced about how it'll work technically though. A GPS box on every car - that's too open to abuse.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: stallion
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 05:56 PM

mmmm so, we are going to tax cars per mile to show an example to the world hu, like Canute turning the waves back, now if China and the US did it, well, that would be something, probably the rest of us could do nowt. This is way off the music thread only that it's major tinkering with social structures, yummy, a revolution in the offing.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:47 PM

The British Media have had their 'good times' with New Labour and are now putting out anything they can find that MAY be detrimental to them
They did exactly the same in the run up to the 1997 election , only then it was the Conservatives who were getting the flak ! Unfortunately MOST people dont keep track of what they are up to , so the anti Government scare has the effect looked for by the Media Moguls , and keeps people buying their Newspapers !



Discuss !!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 09:14 PM

Sorry EU suckers -

Brits do not let go of the POUND, it is your final defence, just in case RollsRoyce, Loyds, or the StarLine should become unstable..

Kyoto......Kyoto......Kyoto......Kyoto......

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Bert
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 09:20 PM

I don't think that it was too long ago that the British Government were promising that North Sea Oil would put an end to tax problems in the UK.