Are the sessions real in Ireland?

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 Oct 19 - 07:20 AM

'Over the moon about your booking at The Cobblestone Peter (would you like a map!!)'

I didn't say I accepted the invitation ;-)

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Oct 19 - 07:14 AM

"Jackie "
Only if we can persuade Jackie not to tell jokes - wouldn't inflict thm on anybody
Over the moon about your booking at The Cobblestone Peter (would you like a map!!) - we'll try to be your groupies
If not, I'm pretty sure the sessions are filmed and put up on line - their 'Notes and Narratives' talks are
Jim

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 Oct 19 - 06:48 AM

I second that, the West Clare bit anyway, I suppose it's about time we get Steve in the same room with Jackie and Mick Kinsella ;-)

I can't speak for things in Dublin much but The Piper's Corner generates positive noises these days. Another pub run by a legendary musician's son.

Jim will probably be pleased to hear I got the call for the Cobblestone. Don't book your tickets yet though.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Oct 19 - 05:14 AM

" and one evening we went to the Cobblestone."
The Cobblestone id a seven night a week session pub owned by the son of a legendary musician
It can be overcrowded but the muic is ususally of a high standard - it's shape means that only those sitting in the few front seats get to play (not sure it's a deliberate policy)
The Pipers (NPU) hold mini - concerts on the first Tuesday of every month (usually a mixture of music and song - 3 performers - magic)
A bunch of mainly youngsters run a fabulous singing night on the fist Sunday of every month under the over-indulgent title of 'The Night Before Larry Was Stretched (shortened to 'Larry' if you're in a hurry)   
Well- will worth a visit

Hughes used to me the main-man for Irish music and dancing - bit quieter nowadays - probably too close to The Cobblestone
We try to get there on Tuesdays when we're in Dublin - nice quiet session of mainly four friends - good musicians without being stars - extremely friendly if you are prepared to be the same
Too near the Guarda station for my liking (we're used to going out for a session around the time the rest of the world is going to bed) Viva West Clare !!

If you ever come over again Steve.....
Jim

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Oct 19 - 08:18 PM

I've only been to Ireland once, in 2006 (so I'm probably severely of date here), and one evening we went to the Cobblestone. For about an hour we were regaled with a trio of very good musicians, ostensibly playing a session but who had obviously been hired for that hour (they quickly decamped at the end, presumably to get their next hundred euros at the next pub), but they did let me play some tunes, with which they refrained from joining in, which is pretty bad session form (if I told you the names of the tunes you'd accuse me of deploying the hackneyed...). Following that, there were some lovely tunes led by a wonderful lady called Marion McEvoy, and I had a great evening. Marion invited me to her session the following evening in a pub right up the road to the north past the Auld Triangle pub then turn right (I can't remember the name of the pub now), and we had a lovely evening with what anyone would surely call a genuine session. On another evening we went to Hughes's bar where we saw a lovely session of top-notch musicians playing in unison with no friggin' strummers in sight. I did join in on Lark In The Morning but otherwise I just drank Guinness and was in awe.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Oct 19 - 01:56 PM

Tonight i am running a real session in ballydehob ,the session has been ing for 35 years, no one is paid

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Oct 19 - 01:41 PM

When my late wife Mary and I visited a small town in County Gort, Loghrea,not to be confused with Logorrhea which is a disease of running off at the mouth verbally.
We met a fiddler named Vincent on the street, struck up a nice conversation about music
and he invited us to a dance at a senior's home nearby. The musicians were excellent playing standards such as "Sligo Girl" and other tunes less familiar. I was amazed to find elderly couples dancing vigorously while clogging. As Mary and I were on the sidelines
listening to the band, two nuns came over grabbed us by the hands and thrust us into one of the half-set dances. The half-set dances were a charming custom. You danced a little and then you stopped and stood and conversed for which the Irish are masters. They asked the usual questions, "Are you on holiday?" and others but they were so warm and interested in us that we were so honored to be so welcomed. Then the music starts up again and they show you the moves and guide you gently into them.   I'm sure the musicians would have welcomed me to sit in with them had I brought my guitar. It was a memorable experience not in a pub but a real experience with Irish people.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Oct 19 - 12:50 PM

I have noticed that, even in the tourist shops you occasionally stumble on an unexpected hidden gem
One we got recently,'Mysterious Ireland' on the 'Green Velvet' Label. feturing Frankie Gavin, Marcus Hernon, Jackie Daly, Kevin and Paddy Glackin... and several others, at a ridiculously low price springs to mind
The Cheapo anthologies at Tower Records in Dublin - Irish and particularly blues are well worth ploughing though - the black Convict stuff is amazing
There was a fashion for issuing re-processed 1930's 78 of Coleman et al - haven't seen them for a wile though
Jim carroll

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 19 - 10:58 AM

yes, bearing in mind the wonderful music which exists in Ireland, isn't it appalling what is sold in Airport & tourist shops?

There's plenty of tat available in Princes Street or Oxford Street, but Ireland markets itself on its music, so it is a bit disappointing to see such rubbish sold to innocent tourists

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 18 Dec 16 - 07:27 AM

The opposite of REAL in FAKE- a good description of what is often promoted as 'traditional' these days- in any context

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 01 Dec 16 - 05:50 AM

It's a bit of a quandary really- we run two monthly singing (mainly) sessions in Co Leitrim (Drumkeeran and Ballinaglera) We could run them in fairly private pub rooms but much prefer to do it in an open bar, and involve the locals.

A solely music session can continue as 'muzak, whatever the noise level, but unamplified singers cannot do that.
We have to make a judgment on arrival and decide whether to risk a potentially noisy bar without saying shhhhh in a public bar to locals who want to chat about football!

When it works, it's great but sometimes we beat a retreat to privacy- against all my principles, but if we have a guest singer, it's only fair to people who have driven 20 miles to hear listen to him or her.

The purpose of our singing circle is to promote 'traditional' singing (whatever that is) but we don't define that & whatever it is, in a public bar situation, a singer or musician (paid or not) would be very unwise to ignore requests, however outrageous.

Too much alcohol makes some folk very persistent & if you really DON'T want to sing the 'Wild Rover clap clap clap' you can fit it into a set of waltzes & keep yer punter happy ....

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 16 - 04:31 AM

""Ballad Sessions"
I had the same experience in the early 1960s
I had just become hooked on Child Ballads and I thought all my birthdays had come at the same time when I saw he signs - what a let-down!!
The period is still known as 'The Ballad Boom' and it coincided with 'The Folk Boom' in Britain.It passed around the same time, when the mucis industry lost interest and moved off to more lucrative areas
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 30 Nov 16 - 09:16 PM

I remember being in Ireland in the late 1960s and seeing these blackboard signs outside pubs for "Ballad Sessions": that meant Engelbert Humperdinck, Andy Bennett, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin and the like: about as far removed from traditional irish as you could get!

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 16 - 03:19 PM

I started visiting Ireland back in 1975 and few pubs offered traditional music, most were more interested in a jukebox playing the Rubettes or Gary Glitter.

The sessions could only be found in community halls.

It is all changed now, I find a lot of the pubs in the North of Ireland we visit advertise sessions purely on a commercial basis with front men who double as comedians.

As I said, give my the parish hall sessions in Brockagh County Tyrone anytime, pure and old world.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 30 Nov 16 - 02:44 PM

In fairness, most pubs will advertise 'music' rather than 'session' so that's honest enough.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Nov 16 - 02:19 PM

ITS ABOUT HONESTY, if a session is a session[ an unpaid gig where travelling musicians are welcome that is a session.
if it is an amplified pub gig just call it trad music gig with joe bloggs,but do not call it a session, dont drag people to pubs under false pretences.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 16 - 01:30 PM

My wife is Northern Irish and we often visit her family for extended weekends.

Without doubt the best sessions are to be found in Brockagh County Tyrone. This small village has an abundance of some of the finest musicians in Ireland.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 30 Nov 16 - 12:36 PM

'once you move into the pubs you have to be acutely aware that life goes on outside of our music and you need to work with that fact - too many musicians, and not a few singers, seems to believe that the world stops turning while they are singing or playing - life really isn't like that'

I think you're right there Jim, once you go into a pub a musician has to put up with the noise and everything else. Not sure singers do that though, they usually just keep shushing until everybody shuts up before they start. In fact my son was rather taken aback recently when he was taken aside in a local pub for continuing a conversation with a friend while a singer was doing their bit on the opposite side of the house.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Nov 16 - 11:08 AM

" when the group are amplified and travelling musicians are not ,"
And I'm equally sure that an unaccompanied singer would not find a welcome in many amplified sessions that don't cater for the music we play around here - what's wrong with that?
If we all liked the same thing, wouldn't life be boring?
West Clare has a reputation for good music and this town in particular gets gets visitors throughout the year because of it ("The home of traditional Irish Music" is a common response when we tell people where we live- so far, it has helped the town survive 'The Banker's Folly'.
When outsiders start telling the town who they should cater for I have no doubt whatever that we should see the end of that.
It really is musical suicide when you start to try to please all of the people all of the time.
I have to say that I have visited every county6 in Ireland and I'm often staggered to note the number of places who put up signs saing "traditional music session in two weeks time"
The proof of the pudding really is in the eating.
By the way Jim B - I am not suggesting for one minute that the scene should revert to kitchen sessions, just that once you move into the pubs you have to be acutely aware that life goes on outside of our music and you need to work with that fact - too many musicians, and not a few singers, seems to believe that the world stops turning while they are singing or playing - life really isn't like that.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Nov 16 - 10:51 AM

Long live the Green Dragon! I spent a pleasant hour on the bench by the front door some years ago, enjoying a pint in the September sunshine. Popped through the pub and down the path to see the "Force", but the weather had been so dry, it was just a mild flow - not like when I first saw it at age 16. Then it was gushing down the rock face at a rate of knots (and it cost 4d to go through the pub to see it!)

Shame Hawes is such a tourist hole these days - it used to be a lovely quiet village back in the '50s...

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 30 Nov 16 - 10:34 AM

Will Fly: Tonight is the monthly session at the White Horse in Ditchling. The Usual Suspects will be there with fiddles, mandolins, melodeons, concertinas, a guitar or two, with nyckelharpa, flute, smallpipes and double bass in attendance. All ages. On the whole a really excellent standard of musicianship - but with encouragement for those less able to show what they can do. I help to run that session, and that's just how we want it to be. At my local French tunes session, I take a mandolin, sit well back and learn, learn, learn. Horses for courses.

And what an excellent session it is! I'm very much on the "those less able" end of the spectrum, but always asked to contribute.... sometimes more successfully than others. I drive an hour each way to this session. It's by far the best musical event I attend, and what I think of as "the ideal session". You can join in, or not, as you wish; lead off a song or tune, or not, as you wish; do a solo spot (singing, playing or both) as you wish. Will and the other "main attenders" keep a weather eye on things and make sure anyone who might want to contribute gets a chance.

I'm really sorry not to have made it on Sunday....I drove hell for leather back from Hardraw in North Yorkshire, where I'd been hill-walking in the snow (and watching the play/ listening to the music in the Green Dragon!). But time was against me and after arriving home at 6.30 pm following a 300 mile drive with one stop, couldn't face another 2 hours driving that day :-) . Hope it went well Will and hope to see you at the next one (Jan 2nd?)

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Nov 16 - 09:03 AM

my understanding of it is this
paid gigs should be advertised as trad music with dick miles or jim bainbridge or a n other, imo sessions are unpaid, doesnt mean the music is any better or worse.
Jim, your gigs were always welcoming, but not everyone is like you, particularly when the group are amplified and travelling musicians are not , immediately there is a them and us situation, and some of these trad groups are quite happy not to have anyone join in with them.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 30 Nov 16 - 07:25 AM

I'd say that an informal musical event (described as a session) needs probably to be rooted in its community to be described as 'real'?. Sure there are Irish sessions all over the world, and old-timey U.S. ones as well. It may be that roots are deeper here, but I'm not aware of any non-Irish or old-timey 'sessions at all in Ireland- a few Scots tunes may creep in, but I could be shot down there!
With some exceptions, even Irish pubs have become unsuitable for the informal 'traditional' (REAL?)session which visitors may hope to find. Pub owners have to make a living, and except in a few favoured locations, there is not enough interest in the music to counteract the need for TV sport and the high volume level of general chat which is normal in Irish pubs in late evening.

Ireland is NOT a 'lost world of music' despite the Bord Failte adverts. We run ours at 5pm on a Sunday to try & avoid these distractions- it doesn't always work, of course.
So the 'session tends to be a form of muzak in such pubs, for commercial reasons- overheads and taxes are very high here!!

You'll find a 'real session' in local kitchens & living rooms (a reversion to the bygone days of kitchen music??) rather than the pub, but visitors are not likely to be invited to such gatherings, without local contacts.

I made a living in West Cork 20 years ago playing & singing unamplified in small bars with a summer tourist presence- with no hangups about the nature of what I was playing- I just got on with it & if I got a request, whether for some polkas or a Geordie song, I would do my best to oblige, as well as being inclusive- other musicians & singers were always welcome. Myself and Patrick (guitar) were paid, yes, and we were both a blow-in- we still are!!- were they 'real sessions'?

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Nov 16 - 06:58 AM

I think I've probably said this in the earlier part of the thread, so apologies if I'm repeating myself.

The style of the session, in my view, really is down to the person(s) who created and started it in the first place. If it's meant to be dedicated to, say, Irish tunes - or English tunes - or French tunes - so be it. If they welcome beginners with open arms, great. If you have to wait patiently to be invited to join in (and perhaps get some assessment of your prowess at the same time!), so be it. If the session organisers want to be exclusive or inclusive, in a bar or in a private space, then that's their choice, and the would-be participant has to abide by the rules or find somewhere else to sit in.

I don't choose to frequent local Irish sessions (for example), simply because I don't know the music that well, preferring Scottish, English or French tunes. And I like sessions that are inclusive in style because, to me, it's not only about the music, it's about a social occasion that welcomes people into a circle and accepts and encourages beginners. A good session enlightens and teaches as well as giving enjoyment. Just my two-penn'orth here.

Tonight is the monthly session at the White Horse in Ditchling. The Usual Suspects will be there with fiddles, mandolins, melodeons, concertinas, a guitar or two, with nyckelharpa, flute, smallpipes and double bass in attendance. All ages. On the whole a really excellent standard of musicianship - but with encouragement for those less able to show what they can do. I help to run that session, and that's just how we want it to be. At my local French tunes session, I take a mandolin, sit well back and learn, learn, learn. Horses for courses.

And it goes without saying that if you choose to play your music in a pub, you accept the pub environment - kibbitzers, background noise, the lot - or you move on.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 09:34 PM

I'm very much with Jim Bainbridge in his views of making things inclusive and not worrying too much about the occasional bum notes: sessions are not concerts after all!

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 09:47 AM

"if you want total respect from the non-singists and non musos, try a Folk Club."
Can't disagree with that, imposing silence on a bar clientele is arrogantly unreasonable.
Play music or sing in a venue that is there to sell drink and you will be treated as muzak - if not at first, eventually.
Having said that, last night I enjoyed a night of solid Ewan MacColl songs - 9-30 to 2-30 - in a West of Ireland bar that hosts a regular monthly singing night, advertises the night as such, and fills the place with singing enthusiasts.
Total attention all night, and some great singing from locals who had put themselves out to learn new songs for the occasion - magic!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 06:44 AM


"it's the singers who seem to think tunes are background music for them to chinwag to, "

My experience too, because the singers will sing along with a chorus song, & do regard themselves as being considerate when someone is singing. Especially in order to set the precedent that others should let them sing uninterrupted. They can't sing and chinwag at the same time either.
But a session is a session, if you want total respect from the non-singists and non musos, try a Folk Club.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 03:16 PM

A lot could be said about this and I have been trying hard not to get into this but a few fairly random thoughts:

I think there's a differentiation between being encouraging to learners and being open to all comers. It can be a fine line but there's a distinction none the less.

The way I see it, a session is a meeting of like minded musicians. If you're out for a few tunes with friends it can be very disconcerting if someone joins out of the blue who is not sensitive to the dinamic of the situation and the music being played, yet expecting to be fully accommodated. Not all comers are sensitive to the social situation that a session is and often they can be the loudest in denouncing a session as being 'elitist' or 'unfriendly'.

I don't particularly fancy playing in noisy pubs (although a quiet one can be fine) and would prefer to play in more private situations. But when deciding whether or not a session is 'real' I think a few things should be taken into account: first of all, musicians not paid to be in a particular spot at a particular time may find something else to do on a night, or find themselves not in the mood. In other words, they won't turn up every time but only when they feel like doing so. Which is fine but won't be appreciated by a publican who wants to fill the house and who has a 'music tonight' sign outside. Let alone people on forums like this who travel to a place expecting a 'session'. Also, if you look at a session as a meeting of like minded musicians, playing for the sake of playing music they enjoy, it's not hard to understand why they wouldn't want to advertise the time and place of their meeting to the general public.

And for what it is worth, I wouldn't expect to walk into a place and join a group of musicians without being invited to do so. But then, YMMV and 'real' sessions can come in many different guises.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,jim babridge
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 02:48 PM

just trying to establish what 'real' means, not to define it myself. I'm well aware of the criticisms 0f CCE and was careful to avoid comment there- no intention of provoking an attack on them.

I agree with you about competitions, and I knew all of the great musicians you mentioned, Jim, and they voted with their feet!
However your comment about the lack of co-ordination and co-operation grates a bit, and 'have-a-go non- musicians' may well be the future for the music? There is a lack of sensitivity to the session situation, but to apply some kind of an audition for participants also defeats the object, to communicate via the music.

In Britain, most folk clubs were great and tolerant platforms where we could forget the words, play bum notes, but LEARN and improve. We were very sympathetic to each other, and I'd see the 'session' in Ireland and everywhere else, as a modern equivalent now that many folk clubs have closed or gone professional and cannot charge good money for bum notes!
I think if the locals are 'dis(un?)interested we should look at ourselves first. The kind of exclusive circle which is too frequent these days may be a lot less acceptable to the locals than a learner musician who's doing his/her best!

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Thompson
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 12:41 PM

There are all kinds of sessions. Some are people who just get together and jam as musicians and singers do everywhere. Some are professionals who also like to go down to the pub and jam in their local for fun. Some include paid musicians put there like seed corn to get the session going. And some are purely paid musicians, and the 'session' aspect is minimal.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 12:32 PM

"It's certainly not 'real' in my book!"
Can't see why - it served Ireland for centuries and is no less "real" than mikes sessions in pubs.
The sit-in session is wrought with so many insurmountable problems - disinterested locals, have-a-go non musicians who use sessions to practice, lack of co-ordination and co-operation....
I cannot be denied that Comhaltas has played a magnificent job in keeping the music alive through the lean years, but it's 'competition' ethos has driven away more musicians than it kept interested.
Competitions are for winners and playing to the rule-book produces clones, not creative musicians.
The pinnacle of their achievement was to expel an entire branch of some of the finest Irish musicians in these islands in one fell swoop for political reasons - Bobby Casey, Tom McCarthy, Danny Mehan, Roger Sherlock, Raymond Roland, John Bowe.... all kicked out in one fell swoop and forced to set up their own session - which still survives after all the other branches collapsed.   
Brendan Breathnach summed up C.C.E, better than anyone I ever came across; "An organisation with a great future behind it" - 'perfic'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 12:14 PM

So a 'session' is a gathering of unpaid musicians, preferably drawn from the local community, where singers are the exception? Is that what is measnt by 'real' in this context?

For me, a session promoted as a Comhaltas session has a particular meaning- depends on your view of that organization, of course- the majority of small towns & even villages in Ireland would have such a session.

Traditional music is a form of social interaction, and if you're not communicating with the people, especially in a public bar, that is pointless. and you're doing the music a disservice.

So the idea of a circle of musicians (even of a high standard) sitting in a circle playing to each other surely defeats the object, and unless it's done in the privacy of your own home, this approach can do nothing positive for the music. It's certainly not 'real' in my book!

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 11:48 AM

There are two Comhaltas sessions in town tonight, a junior one starts at 8.30 and a senior one starts at 10.30. Looking forward to both. The youngsters here are superb musicians. One young man recently one FIVE All Ireland Titles, Harp, Dance, Concertina, Singing in Gaelic and singing in English. Time to finish my pint of Guinness and get some food, watch the Christmas Lights being switched on then into the bar.

After being out all afternoon in glorious sunny weather It's no wonder I love this country!

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 10:48 AM

And, of course, Tuesday night is always Karaoke!

:D tG

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,mooman
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 10:04 AM

A group being exclusive is not a bad idea. I've been at sessions where the self invited were of mediocre musical ability, even to my untrained ears.

I beg to differ. As a sessionista for 40 years or so I abhor an exclusive session and all the best ones I go to are inclusive where the more advanced musicians are happy to bring on the less experienced. That is how I run the ones I lead as well.

As to the original question, there are certainly real sessions around in Ireland but you increasingly have to search them out. Many "sessions" are now paid and amplified performers... which is not a session at all.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 08:43 AM

"it's the singers who seem to think tunes are background music for them to chinwag to, "
The opposite is overwhelmingly the case here in Clare and acknowledged as such.
I don't play an instrument, but I love the music and it's given me the opportunity to observe sessions while not taking part.
One of the interesting features I have noticed is, when you get one or a couple of instrumentalists playing together, you usually get a respectful silence.
More than two, the noise level rises in proportion to the number of instruments.
Add accompaniment, particularly a piano or keyboards, and the music it treated as Muzak
It is interesting to note that in the past, certainly in Clare, the music was exclusively played at home, in farmhouse kitchens - I couldn't count the number of times we've been told by older musicians that it started to go downhill when it moved into the bars.
Irish traditional music was for dancing, but there were plenty of examples of virtuoso playing by the best of the musicians.
A friend from Donegal, the late flute player, Maggie Boyle's father, Paddy, described how when he was young, virtuoso fiddler John Doherty, was a regular visitor to his home.
He would play for a listening audience, but if someone started to dance he would politely take his leave.
Veteran fiddler, the late Junior Crehan told us that, here in West Clare it was considered unlucky to play the bodhran in the home as it was a ritual instrument used exclusively on 'The Wren' ceremony.
Sean O'Riarda was largely responsible for introducing it to Irish music generally.
In fairness, I've never been able to confirm Junior's belief elsewhere
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Gealt
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 06:17 AM

A group being exclusive is not a bad idea. I've been at sessions where the self invited were of mediocre musical ability, even to my untrained ears.
The exception being the great Sunday morning sessions in the White Hart, Fulham Broadway in the early 70s. If you were not good better to keep shtum.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 05:17 AM

Drifting a bit here Jim, but my experience of people who talk loudly through sessions is the other way round: on the whole, in a mixed songs and tunes session, it's the singers who seem to think tunes are background music for them to chinwag to, whereas it's more likely that songs will get listened to.
Sessions in Ireland: I have been to all sorts, including the ones put on for tourists in hotels, and some more genuine pub sessions. Rather odd one in Letterkenny: all the musicians sat in a huddle in the centre of the floor, backs to anyone else around the periphery of the room, never spoke to anyone outside of their huddle, or invited anyone to join in. I did eventually speak to their accordion player to ask the name of a nice tune she had played: I also noted that it was all tunes and no singing: "Oh, our singer isn't here this week", she said. A bit exclusive, or what?
In our local sessions in Scotland, we would always make a point of welcoming any new faces, and inviting them to contribute if they wished to.

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 01:39 PM

"There is not a "surfeit""
Ebor
Depends on how often you find yourself spoilt for choice on the same night.
In the winter we have four - in the summer it can reach half-a-dozen.
The dreat danger is that you can become blasé and miss some good ones.
All of a variable - good to world class standard, but not all are sit-in sessions.
Somebody suggested we have a cull of musicians to make room for singers
While most singers like and respect the music, musicians tend to regard singing as time for a pint and a chat - often extremely noisily.
Maybe the "cull" idea wasn't a joke!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 01:09 PM

I disagree with you Jim. There is not a "surfeit", there only are just enough in your lovely town. I have only managed to play at Friel's, but I have local friends, whose experience I value, who tell me about the excellence of the others!
Do any of these "real" sessions show up on The Session's list at all?

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 12:26 PM

Miltown Malbay, West Clare, has a surfeit of them.
I can remember the first few months we moved here 19 years ago and sat in a not very crowded small bar in town being entertained by the legendary Tommy Peoples every Thursday.
Ennis, twenty miles from here is reputed to be a good location, but, to be honest, when the sessions are as good as they are here, twenty miles seems a long, long way in the middle of Winter.
The Cobblestones, in Dublin is a highly dependable venue, as is The Crane in Galway.
I'm sure there are others far more experienced than me to add to this list
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 12:15 PM

Yes but where is the information about LOCATION of these 'real' sessions- am sure Mudcatters and others would make notes for their next visit- session lists are out of date

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 12:54 PM

Hello Dick- when we first moved to West Cork, I asked locally where thesession was. There really was very little going on then but Rosie's was the one I was directed to- that was in 1985

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 12:48 PM

it's when they bring their owners with them the problems start

so borrowed bodhrans are OK?

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 06:43 AM

Bodhrans are fine with us, it's when they bring their owners with them the problems start
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 06:23 AM

A real session takes place this friday in Ballydehob co cork, RosiesBar, 9 30 pm, no musicians are paid, this session has been going since 1987, the session goes on throught the year, all musicians welcome

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 05:43 AM

So I guess a red bodhran is out of the question!

How does Ireland feel about red spoons?

(note to self - don't tell them about the beater made of walnut that I only bring for the craic!)

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 04:25 AM

I remember our meeting with pleasure Michael.
Many people like yourself, with a genuine love for Irish music, put themselves out to listen to the genuine article, some have made a considerable contribution to it - I have in mind particularly the sadly late Bill Ochs's work with Micho Russell.
It's the thoughtless few who create the worst reputations
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Nov 16 - 07:57 PM

Well Jim, we've met in person, so you should know that I'm not that lazy tourist you describe. My interest is indeed genuine. I knew enough to give Doolin a wide berth, but Dingle surprised me because things weren't so dire the previous time I was there.

I half suspect that the real sessions are kept secret so the tourists don't find them...

Subject: RE: Are the sessions real in Ireland?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Nov 16 - 04:53 AM

"your "bodhran-free" notice does exist "
I know the ones you mean Kenny, the best of those you mention I have coe across shows a bodhran being played with a sharp knife rather than the usual stick.
They tend to be a little more polite here and are still seeking a more subtle way to make the point
Clare is a beautifully welcoming county - occasionally that is taken advantage of, but seldom twice - they haff ways of......
Jim Carroll