Subject: Casadh an tSugain From: SEAN Date: 31 Jan 99 - 01:18 PM Does anyone out there have the lyrics of an Irish trad song casadh an tSugain, if you do be great if you could send them to me email seancussen@dial.pipex.com |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: andrew Date: 21 Feb 99 - 08:33 PM Don't have lyrics but just in case you don't know it means ' Twisting the sug n ' (pronounced sue-gone) which is a rope made from straw and was used mainly to tie down thatched roofs. An old reaping hook with the tip of the blade bent back to form a hook was often used as the twisting tool, in a manner similar to the way you use a wheel brace to turn wheel nuts.( the blade would be covered with an old rag ) |
Subject: Casadh an tSugain From: mm Date: 20 Mar 99 - 06:46 PM Would anyone have the words of the version of Casadh an tSugain that starts "Agus rinne mise cleas..." - all the versions I have start "A Ri na bhFeart..." |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: Annraoi Date: 20 Mar 99 - 09:29 PM "Agus rinne mise cleas 'dtoigh Mhac U¡ Dhomhnaill ar‚ir," Sung my M¡che l O Domhnaill ex Skara Brae and Bothy Band. Was it on the re-issued "Skara Brae" album ? Annraoi |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: Philippa Date: 21 Mar 99 - 10:54 AM mm, The verses I put on another Casadh an tS£g in thread start with "a R¡ na bhFeart" but the second verse begins "Agus rinne m‚ cleas". I can appreciate you wanting the exact words of a particular recording if you want to use it to improve your pronunciation, but at least there will be some similarity in the text which may assist you. |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: Philippa Date: 21 Mar 99 - 11:05 AM 100,000 apologies but the "rinne m‚ cleas" verse ISN'T in the other thread. I hope Annraoi will supply it for you! |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: Philippa Date: 21 Mar 99 - 05:00 PM For my sins, I am trying to find the requested version. On the Gaeilge-B website I found that S¡le Hogg posted lyrics from Colm • Baoill's book: 'Amhr in Ch£ige Uladh (Dalton pub., Baile Atha Cliath [Dublin], 1977) which she says are close to the lyrics sung by M¡cheal O Domhnaill (though I don't see the verse commencing "Rinne mise cleas"), Note also when seeking this song that it sometimes goes by the title "Ma bh¡onn t£ liom". The spelling below varies slightly from the modern standard, but represents Ulster pronunciation better. A summary of the story behind the song can be found via the link in my first, erroneous, message on this thread.
M bh¡onn t£ liom b¡ liom de l¢ 's d'oidhch'
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Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: mm Date: 21 Mar 99 - 06:08 PM D mb‚adh spr‚ ag an chat! So *that's* my problem! LOL! But still no "Agus rinne mise cleas" version. Ah well, people have kindly given me lots of words, whereas the poor old "Rusty Cold Farmer" person is still waiting in silence. |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tS£g in From: Philippa Date: 22 Mar 99 - 07:35 AM mm, a chara, N¡ thuigim do theachtaireacht, go m¢r m¢r an chuid sa Bhearla Philippa 'acht' should be 'ach' (the word 'but'). mm likes the line about 'if a cat had a dowry, she'd get married' |
Subject: Lyr Add: CASADH AN TSUGAIN From: Philippa Date: 14 Apr 99 - 06:25 AM The lyrics posted 21 March have transmuted, but not to worry: the no. of lyrics affected should be small and I think the large no. of lyrics posted before Jan which had been gone funny are back to normal now (I hope!). I found a verse commencing "D'imreas cleas..." in an t-Athair (Father) Pádraig Breathnach's "Ceól ár Sínsear" (Dublin, 1934). I haven't typed it out yet. In the meantime, here's a repeat of the version posted last month: CASADH AN TSUGAIN Má bhíonn tú liom bí liom de ló 's d'oidhch' Má bhíonn tú liom bí liom a stór beag mo chroidhe Má bhíonn tú liom bí liom gach orlach de do chroidhe 'Sé mo léan ar lom nach liom tráthnóna mar bhí.[mar mnaoí]
(Curfa/)
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Subject: Lyr Add: CASADH AN TSÚGAIN From: Philippa Date: 14 Apr 99 - 07:27 AM CASADH AN TSÚGAIN (an t-Athair Pádraig Breathnach. Ceól ár Sínsear, BAC: Muinntír Bhrúin & Nualláin, 1934) D'imreas cleas i dteach Uí Dhomhnaill aréir, 'S an tarna cleas i dtigh bheag eile le na thaobh; An tríomhadh cleas níl neart dom áireamh ar mo scéal, Ach go meallfaidhe bean dá dtabharfaidhe duthracht don bhé.
Agus d'aithneas féin a baint na luachrach aréir,
Má bhíonn tú liom , bí liom a rúin ghíl mo chroídhe,
Do threabh'nn [threabhfainn], d'fhuirsfinn, chuirfinn síol ins a chré,
A Righ na bhFeart cas a chas ins a' duthaigh seo mé, |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: Julie H via Philippa Date: 14 May 99 - 02:13 PM Julie writes to me that she listened to the Micheal Ó Domhnaill recording and that it is mostly like the version in Abair Amhran (see the clickable link at 21 March above) but with the first verse as published by Breathnach (see 14 Apr) escept "Rinne mé cleas" for "D'imreas cleas" (both mean I played a joke; rinne is the - irregular- past tense of the verb 'déanamh', to make or do/ D'imreas is from 'imirt', to play[a game]) |
Subject: Tune Add: CASADH AN TSÚGAIN From: alison Date: 23 Oct 99 - 09:43 AM Here's some tunes from Philippa Firstly the more common version of the tune, and secondly "Ma/ bhi/onn tu/ liom" (taken from Ceolta Gael, sean Og & Manus O/Baoill, and Amhra/in chuige Uladh, Lorcan O/ Muireadhaigh).
MIDI file: CASADH~2.MID Timebase: 480 Name: CASADH AN TSÚGAIN This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1
MIDI file: MA_BHI~1.MID Timebase: 480 Name: Ma/ bhi/onn tu/ liom This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1
If you'd rather hear the tune without the hassle of translating try new MIDI site slainte alison
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Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: An Súisín Bán Date: 10 Dec 99 - 05:28 PM 'An Súisín Bán' is another title for 'Casadh an tSúgáin'. 'An Súisín Bán': This is the title of the version published in "Love Songs of Connacht" (1893, reprinted 1969). One verse begins "A's cad é an cat marbh do sheol ann san tír seo mé..?", "And what was the dead cat which guided me into this country..?" Author and compiler (and collecter and translator) Douglas Hyde explains that the 'cat marbh', the 'dead cat', "in the language of the bard, is synomymous with bad luck." He says that Hardiman misinterpreted the line and substituted 'cath' , 'battle', for 'cat'. If you look through this thread you'll see the funny things that can happen to accented letters; for this reason it's best to use html codes for these letters when typing lyrics for posting at Mudcat. See Joe's advice, 22 Feb. 99 Link to the: symbol table |
Subject: 'An Súisín Bán' From: Philippa Date: 10 Dec 99 - 05:31 PM I meant to paste in 'An Súisín Bán' in as the subject, not as my name!!! |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: Áine Date: 10 Dec 99 - 05:43 PM I don't know, Philippa, I kinda like it ;-) -- Perhaps you should consider changing your 'handle' here. One question though -- should we translate 'Súisín' as a coverlet or a mophead? Níl mé ach magadh fút, a chara! -- Áine |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: InOBU Date: 10 Dec 99 - 06:08 PM Always one of my favorites. I used to play the pipes while Trasa O Carrol from KilCarin, Connemara, used to sing it. I always felt the tune was so haunting and lovely that the story didnt fit, but it is a wonderful, great lovely song anyway. I believe Trasa is now in Carna, and anyone out there who runs into her, give her my best and have her sing that. Larry |
Subject: Casadh An tSugain--English lyrics? From: GUEST,Terry Date: 20 Jan 01 - 08:31 PM I've never failed to get my questions answered from this erudite and helpful group. Does anyone know if there is an English translation to the Irish song "Casadh An tSugain"? The song is on one of the Bothy Band's CDs. Stunningly beautiful melody, and I've enjoyed it even without understanding the Gaelic lyric, but it would be nice to sing it in English. Thanks in advance... Terry |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Casadh An tSugain--English lyrics? From: GUEST,Angun Date: 21 Jan 01 - 05:13 PM Hi, I think you can find a translation to it here: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/8998/ceol.html Angun |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Casadh An tSugain--English lyrics? From: GUEST,Terry Date: 21 Jan 01 - 08:44 PM Angun, Thanks much! I knew this group would come through. Now I'll work on the pronunciation. Terry
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Subject: AN SUISIN BAN From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 19 Mar 01 - 04:29 PM I've heard one or more tunes (not songs) with the tiltle 'An Súisín Bán' played and they didn't resemble the usual air for Casadh an tSúgáin. There's a simple setting of a hornpipe called "An Súisín Bán" published in Eithne and Brian Vallely, "Learn to Play the Fiddle with Armagh Piper's Club" By the way, Áine, the tune for "Dóchas Linn Naomh Pádraig" is in the same publication. |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST,frogbert@inetarena.com Date: 02 May 01 - 03:18 PM I can't believe i actually found this place. i've been looking for the lyrics for a while. unfortunately i have been listening to the version by the Chieftains on "Water from the Well" and i don't think the lyrics match. does anyone know where there might be a site with various translations? i even went to the library and dug through a number of books. it's tough if you do not know gaelic. |
Subject: Casadh an tSugan From: GUEST,JTT Date: 26 Jul 02 - 06:59 PM Aha, just got the first verse of Casadh an tSugan as sung by the Bothy Band in that album from about 1810. It starts: "Agus rinne mise cleas ar .... Ui Dhomhnaill areir" and I was always looking for that verse. But of course the Bothy Band was mainly consisting of O'Donnell's (Ui Dhomhnaill/Ni Dhomhnaill), and it's obviously a private joke, if only I could hear the words better. |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST Date: 26 Jul 02 - 07:05 PM Why doesn't the story fit? I mean, the song is a love song sung by a boy of the wrong class or religion to a girl, after he's come visiting, and has been put winding the straw rope with her, so that he will have to back away gradually from her out the door of the house and across the haggard, so he's singing - If you are mine, be mine, o treasure of my heart If you are mine, be mine in front of all the world If you are mine, be mine every inch of your heart And by my naked word, you will be mine on Sunday as wife. |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST Date: 26 Jul 02 - 07:25 PM In fact, I suppose it's the classic story of Mi Casadh, Tu Casadh. |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 26 Jul 02 - 07:26 PM I don't think frogbert was criticising the story line, but rather saying that the lyrics posted don't match word for word with the lyrics on the Chieftains album. There are other versions posted on Mudcat, see 21 Mar 99 blue clickable. For most purposes, it is more important to know what the song is about than to have all of it translated. |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST Date: 26 Jul 02 - 07:58 PM Ah - as with most Irish songs (apart from the Big Songs of the sean-nos tradition - in fact even those vary, though less than most) there are lots of versions of this. |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 26 Jul 02 - 08:00 PM note that there are two sets of lyrics on this thread (14 Apr 99 messages) and yet another one may be accessed by clicking the link posted 21 March 99. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Casadh an tSugan From: michaelr Date: 26 Jul 02 - 10:11 PM OK, there are 3 threads on this song up right now. Whatever happene to thread consolidation? Michael |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Casadh an tSugan From: GUEST Date: 27 Jul 02 - 05:10 AM Michaelr, do I detect some resentment against thread duplication, particularly when Gaelic song lyrics are involved? I wonder if you would concur that those of mudcat's members and other regulars wishing to discuss Gaelic songs (in English) should be discouraged in favour of a purely monolinguistic English speaking forum? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Casadh an tSugan From: GUEST,JTT Date: 27 Jul 02 - 05:15 AM Sorry, this is my fault; I didn't see the other threads when I started this one, and don't know how to join up threads - admin, can you do this for me, please? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Casadh an tSugan From: GUEST Date: 27 Jul 02 - 07:33 AM If Michaelr hadn't raised his voice this thread would have quietly faded away [this thread with only one entry would not now be visible under the 1 day filter]; if he looked at the other threads he might have seen that JTT had noticed the error of his ways and gone to write at another thread. The way to get deletions made is to make your request at the Help section of Mudcat. As far as I know only Joe Offer combines duplicate threads and that is not an enviable, or even desirable, task once both threads have much material on them. There are at least 4 Casadh an tSugáin threads.If you see a duplicate thread you can put a link on it to the longer thread, and also (if you think necessary) raise an alert through the Help section. The reason you saw 3 threads at one time is because people did add links to one thread and then the discussion continued also at an older thread |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST,JTT Date: 27 Jul 02 - 05:38 PM I hadn't realised before, but this is rather racy stuff. Hmmm. So that's why Donegal men keep singing it hopefully to me! |
Subject: RE: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST,Bermo Date: 30 Jul 02 - 02:57 PM Go raibh míle maith agaibh go léir !! I'd been looking for the 'elusive first verse' (on and off) for years - in books, internet, Waltons sheet music, singers without sucess. Got sent here via Beo.ie - very impressed. Thanks ! |
Subject: RE: An Súisín Bán From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 10 Nov 02 - 02:25 PM As mentioned earlier, 'An Súisín Bán' is another title for 'Casadh an tSúgáin'. This is the title of the version published in "Love Songs of Connacht" (1893, reprinted 1969) and in Tomás Ó Concheanainn, "Nua-Dhuanaire III" (1981). Ó Concheanainn lists the following sources: manuscripts of the Folklore Dept of University College, Dublin - 585, 500-3 & 1281,179-81; and the periodicals 'Béaloideas' 10 (1940) & 'Gaodhal' Seacht-mhí [7th month, I suppose July unless this is a translation of 'Sept.'] 1894. |
Subject: The rope Ma Bhionn Tu Liom From: GUEST,Catherine Pestano Date: 05 May 11 - 07:01 AM Hi again, I have just listened to the version on Roisin Elsafty's album but the tune is nothing like the one my mum sings. She calls the sing the rope, which fits with the translations. Is there another song with that as the title, does anyone know? I could maybe send a recording ofher to someone who might recognise it. many thanks Catherine |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 05 May 11 - 02:46 PM I searched for this song on YouTube and found to my surprise that there are quite a few versions. I listened to Michael O'Domnaill (sp) sing it, and I've got to say that I doubt very much that it is a tale of a clever girl outwitting a fiddler. It's much too soulful. Perhaps two songs have been conflated here. The tune he sings is lovely. I'm going to try it on my flute. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST,Cathal Ó Cuaig Date: 09 Oct 13 - 07:53 AM Click here Jimmy Canavan singing Casadh an tSugain. Sean nos singing on TG4.ie ---------Clicky added. Mudelf--------------- |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST,Grace Date: 22 Jan 16 - 10:03 PM I'm looking for the words to the version that Iarla O Lionaird sings in "Brooklyn". |
Subject: Lyr Req: Casadh an tSugain From: GUEST,michaelr Date: 27 Dec 23 - 06:49 PM Is anyone aware of a singable English translation of this song? |
Subject: Lyr Req: Casadh an tSugain From: michaelr Date: 08 Jan 24 - 06:51 PM I know I asked recently if anyone knows of a singable English translation, but I cannot find that thread bow (I did not log in). Anyone? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Casadh an tSugain From: Daniel Kelly Date: 08 Jan 24 - 08:11 PM Hi Michael, I wrote one here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9ejqOIuuu8 |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Casadh an tSugain From: Daniel Kelly Date: 08 Jan 24 - 08:17 PM Words here: If you're with me, Be with me in front of the whole house If you're with me, Be with me all day and all night If you're with me, Be with me truly in your heart Such sorrow for me, That wedded we can never be. Oh what misfortune has led me to this place? There is many a lass in the village that I left behind I called at the house of my true love last night But her mother had me twisting rope till I was out the door I would plow and plant, The seed deep in the soil And I would drive the cows to best grass in the fields, I would shoe the fastest horse that ever was, But none of these are fit to win your hand My hair is grey, but not from length of years, Fair words will never sate the hunger in me And I’ve wasted over a year, in courting you I am hunted like a deer chased on the moor. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Casadh an tSugain From: Thompson Date: 11 Jan 24 - 07:55 AM In front of the whole world, surely. How old is this song? Does it predate the 1901 play by Douglas Hyde? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Casadh an tSugain From: michaelr Date: 14 Jan 24 - 12:44 PM Thank you, Daniel Kelly! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Casadh an tSugain From: Felipa Date: 14 Jan 24 - 04:48 PM Thompson: Hyde published a version of they lyrics of Casadh an tSugáin in Love Songs of Connacht (1893), so he was aware of the song before he wrote the play. https://archive.org/details/LoveSongsOfConnacht/page/n83/mode/2up An Súisín Bán, the White Coverlet, pp 74-75 The play, with a translation by Lady Gregory, is also viewable on the Archive https://archive.org/details/casadhtsgino00hydeuoft/mode/2up |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Casadh an tSugain From: Thompson Date: 15 Jan 24 - 08:10 AM Thanks, Felipa. |
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