Concertina Bands

Subject: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 04:18 AM

In the early 1900s from 1905 to 1925 annual Concertina Band competitions were held at Belle Vue Manchester(no competitions were held during the war).The bands mainly played brass band arrangements and even called themselves 1st Cornet,2nd Cornet etc.The total bands consisted of concertinas with the odd drum and one band had a harp.
The bands included The Ashton under-Lyne,Bolton,Heckmondwike,Premier(sponsored by Lachenal),Heywood,Manchester,Oldham,Mexborough and others.The Ashton under-Lyne band dominating the years after the war.
I have been lucky to hear the sounds of some of the top bands and they were fantastic and I intend to feature some tracks on the forthcoming English International.
During the period mentioned The Salvation Army were very active, but very few recordings of them exist and those I have heard are such poor recordings they could not be used for release.I do have a usable couple of recordings of The Plymouth Salvation Army Band (1993) which will be used on either English or the future Duet International (to be released end of this year early next).
I have details of The Heywood,Ashton under Lyne and Premier Concertina bands,but I would be very interested if any of you have any information at all regarding these old bands as it is a fascinating subject and represents times gone by that will most probably never be repeated.
I have approached BBC Manchester to see if they want to do a programme about this subject, but do not hold your breath.If I get a satisfactory response I will of course let you know.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 04:32 AM

In the 1970's I did a gig at Mexborough Concertina Club.

As I was setting up the PA, the concert secretatry wandered up to me and whispered conspiratorially, Do you know what's under that stage....?

I nearly said, ....last weeks act maybe? But I just said,.... no idea mate.

Hundreds of concertinas! Hundreds!

I wonder what happened to them.

another Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Notferjo
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 09:51 AM

Alan Day, you are not the first to wonder…………
I have a record by one Nigel Pickles called the Mexborough English Concertina Prize Band (out on Plant Life Records PLR 055) bought on a visit to the UK in mid 80's. The sleeve notes contain a potted history of concertina bands and the Mexborough Band in particular. He says this band was still practising with 5 members in 1978 when they decided to sell the instruments and disband.
Nigel Pickles acquired 10 of the concertinas and all the music from Willis Watson, the last band leader and his brother Archie. The recording is Nigel recreating the sound of the band by playing all the instruments – on 16 track tape.

Nfj

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 09:58 AM

I actually went to Mexborough to hear them with Alistair Anderson probably around 1974/6. That's when there were about six or seven of them.

Dave Eyre

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 11:52 AM

As mentioned above, the Mexborough concertina band's sheet music was bought by Nigel pickles, who released an LP with him playing several concertinas multitracked. He also did at least one tour playing numbers from the Mexborough Concertina Quartet. I believe Tim Laycock was one of the four players. I saw them perform at the Knaresborough Folk Club.
The Mexborough Concertina Club no longer has the instruments, and is a non-political social club. A number of years back, one of the bar staff decided to do some small scale brewing on the premises. Originaly the beer was only sold in the club, but after a while they had sufficient production capacity to sell it to real ale pubs and beer festivals. They brew some excellent beers. I particularly ike their Old Dark Attic. BLICKY.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: yrlancslad
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 01:17 PM

I too have the Mexborough Prize band album mentioned above and have treasured it for years. Also "The New Mexborough English Concertina Quartet" on Plant Life PLR071.The four players were Nigel Pickles, Steve Dickinson, Rob McKie and Dick Miles. I guess though that you're looking for original recordings of these bands Alan?

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 01:25 PM

the new mexborough concertina quartet,consisted of Dick Miles,first treble and vocals,Rob Mckie second treble,Nigel Pickles[Baritone],Steve Dickinson [wheatstone concertinas], Tenor and bass concertina,we recorded an lp on plantlife 071the band played for 3 years 1984- 1987.I left to move to Nottingham,I was replaced by Douglas Rogers,the band continued for 6 to 9 months.
we played at wath on dearne town hall,where several of the original members turned up,and congratulated us on our music.
we never played at the mexborough concertina club,although I did do a workshop there on my own.
I had the privilege of playing Willis Watson,s CONCERTINA.A 48 metal ended treble[Which we nicknamed the rocket].
TimLaycock is a crane duet player,and good as he is,could not have played in asnenglish concertina quartet,http: //www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 01:31 PM

its possible that amateur recordists may have taped us,in which case,if the quality is good enough ,my permission [Iam only one of four ]is granted.
a subsequent lp was recorded with dambuster music[it was later sold to someone in harrogate]who has not released it.

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 02:34 PM

I have some archive recordings of the New Mexborough band not good enough to use however(not the playing the recording quality).I think I have sufficient for English International recorded on 78s about 1925, Harewood and Ashton under Lyne. The quality of recordings is superb.If needs be I have another early one 1915 of the Premier Concertina Band on cylinder if space permits.
It is mainly these early bands that I am interested in as I do not think we will ever have them again.There is a picture of Harewood with twenty one players and about another eight members not in uniform so they were a very strong band.A truly fantastic sound.
Another more recent band is The Butleigh Court Concertina band that I do have a good recording of them playing the Radetski March.
When you look at all these concertinas I wonder what did happen to them all.Mostly Wheatstones ,Bases,Baritones and Soprano's.
I bet that stage is raided they would be worth a fortune.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 10:47 PM

The New Mexborough English Concertina Quartet performed at the Taunton music and drama festival 1985,and won first prize,beating other groups from the West Country.
we performed at Chippenham ,Towersey,Kendall festivals.,amongst others
we also played the Purcell rooms,Festival hall,a really interesting gig,split with a klezmer band.
TO GEOFF THE DUCK,I have often been confused with Tim Laycock,Tim is the good looking one.
It is very frustrating when hardwork is put into a project[The second N.E.M.C.Q. lp,Cheating the Tide, Playingfor time etc]and you are led to trust people, Richard Digance [dambuster music] in the caseof N.E.M.C.Q..and then the material never sees the light of day.
the second lp was very good,but punters are never going to hear it because its gone to Harrogate[the musical equivalent of the Bermuda triangle].

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 05:56 AM

My mistake, Dick. It is a long time back and I only saw the one concert.
I recall that I enjoyed the evening and the repertoire was interesting (in particular to someone who once played in brass bands).
Apologies for any misattribution.
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 06:58 AM

We used to practice the music once or occasionally twice a week,and we enlisted the help of a professional conductor.
We were professional in our outlook ,as I am sure the old concertina bands were,and as I am still.[Istill practice every day].
i,m glad the quartet is still remembered,and that our music brought so much pleasure.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: treewind
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 07:27 AM

Steve Dickinson doesn't even play English concertina any more. He says he can't afford one!

Anahata

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:57 AM

still he does a great job repairing and making them,the response on my concertina is fantastic [thanks to him]

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:47 PM

Many of the recordings I have of The New Mexborogh Band were taken from the audience, as were many of the other archive recordings I received.It is sad so many Folk Clubs never recorded anything and many still do not.Some great performances lost due to a sudden coughing fit,a door banging,something being dropped,someone deciding to sing along,or conversationas going on during a performance.When putting a compilation together it can be a very frustrating experience.I have got there though,with just one artist's recordings to come in.(out of about forty).
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 09:24 AM

your right al, sometimes live recordings contain cameos never to be repeated again.
I remember the NEMCQ doing a gig at Kendall festival,we started off playing the introduction to the liberty bell,the second treble part had some awkward chromatic notes,anyway second treble played a glorious bum note,we all stopped.NigelPickles said in a stoical manner, we,ll do that again[after around of applause from the audience] [who thought we had done it deliberately].we played it perfectly the second time,.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:21 AM

the main problem I HEAR with the concertina,compared to brass instruments,is the relatively limited dynamic range.
one can play as quietly as brass but not as fortissimo.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:40 PM

Dick I will send you a copy of The Heywood Band recording which will be on English International and you may change your mind on that one.
I predict that many will be sharing my enthusiasm for big Concertina Bands after it is released.
John Nixon and his Father played in the Bolton Concertina Band, but sadly he has no recordings of them.They were however recorded by the BBC and the recordings may be in their archives somewhere, but John has never been able to track them down.There is a chance they could be in the British Library a great source for archive recordings.
When all these projects are over I may have a go to find them.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:52 PM

Thankyou,.
however,concertina reeds hold their tuning,better, than brass instruments in cold or hot weather.
I am enthusiastic up to a point,I just think that its pretty difficult to play a concertina as loud as BRASS.
only a minor criticism,and not a reason for not doing it,best of luck with your project.

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 05:52 PM

I agree Dick you would think in 1925 ish that one solo treble English being played as the lead instrument would come over loud and clear above above twenty other concertina players, but it does and sounds just like a solo cornet in say a Northern Brass Band.It could have only been done by the control of the other players playing softly at his solo parts for him to achieve it.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:25 PM

"could have only been done by the control of the other players playing softly at his solo parts "

One of the many 'secrets' of 'ensemble playing'. Not all good group music is best achieved by everyone playing as loud and fast as possible...

;-)

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Fliss
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:33 AM

Never heard any concertina band music would be great to have a go on the different sizes. My 1880's Lachenal was tuned to old concert pitch Bb. David Leese retuned it for me in 2000 so I could relearn how to play it in Irish music sessions.

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 12:38 PM

willis watsons, metal aeola was pretty loud as well as fast[the rocket],and owing to the skilful arranging and playing of the other players,in the n.e.m.c.q.we also acheived this.
   another important ingredient of arranging brass music particuarly for a concertina quartet,is to realise that it is not always necessary to have all four instruments playing together.
second treble quite often had a dozen bars rest[the musician would have to be a good counter and reader]and quite often baritone and first treble .would play duets for a few bars etc, etc.then for a finale all four instrumentswould give it welly.http;//www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 12:40 PM

Dave Prebble, a good mate. has pinched a load of reeds out of a battered harmonium and intends to make(one day)a base concertina ,already called his fartaphone.He reckons that some of the base notes make the windows rattle.
I would love to have a go on one of those
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 11:04 AM

harmoniums ,often have brass reeds,most bass concertinas have steel.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 11:46 AM

playing Brass Band/concertina band, music is a great discipline.
following metronome markings,using and following dynamics,practising with a metronome are all skills that stand the beginner in great stead,particuarly when it comes to playing for dancing of any kind,steadiness of rhythm and lift are more important than ornamentation.I feel my time in the n.e.m.c q was time well spent,and benefited my concertina playing.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 03:15 PM

This discussion has created some interest and a possible programme is being proposed for BBC Radio together with other possible Folk programmes.If it progresses further I will inform you all of the progress or possibly by the person who has contacted me.
It is even more important that if you have any information or recordings of these concertina bands that you please get in touch.
Many thanks to you all
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Tootler
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 11:43 AM

Captain Birdseye wrote;

playing Brass Band/concertina band, music is a great discipline...

You're absolutely right. It applies to any instrumental ensemble where you have to play in parts.

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 05:56 PM

I think many have missed out on a lot of enjoyment if they have never played in any big band whatever the instrument, or sung in a choir.
To be part of one huge combination of sounds is even worth paying for.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Rowan
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:22 PM

Alan, the original fartaphones (Wheatstone bass and contrabass concertinas) had steel reeds up to 3" long and with brass weights on the ends. The lowest frequency I've measured on one of these is 26Hz, below which the human ear can't distinguish differences in pitch. Such large reeds required a restricted keyboard and music played only on compresssion of the bellows. Your mate with the harmonium reeds might end up with an instrument that's huge.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 03:42 AM

Well Rowan Dave lost about eight stone after a recent operation and he is still around the twenty stone mark so it would be just right.
A gentle giant and an excellent concertina player and restorer.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 11:11 AM

I remember a gig The new mexborough concertina quartet did at Towersey festival,.
we used to dress in black velvet suits with dicky bow ties and black trousers, black boots.
I was living in stowmarket at the time,and had all my gear packed in the morris traveller,before I left Stowmarket,I decided to have breakfast at a transport cafe,being hungry I had two breakfasts.
imagine my horror,when I returned to my car to find someone had stolen my black boots..So being short of cash I was forced to wear a spare set of brown boots.BROWN BOOTS AND TWO BREAKFASTS.Iwas unawre that there was a local tradition of stealing boots.
So we were the sole concertina band, with a member wearing brown boots.,however the music got the feet tapping.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 03:12 PM

Dick did you or any members of the New Mexborough band ever get a chance to speak to any of the older mambers of the original band ? This is not a rude question as I understand a few old members were still playing up until about thirty years ago.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 05:09 PM

yes, they attended a concert at Wath town hall,circa 1985.three members I think.We had a chat afterwards.
before the concert we stood for a minutes silence,for one of the band members who had just died.
we also did a local radio interview with Tony Capstick.

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 08:17 PM

"BROWN BOOTS AND TWO BREAKFASTS"

Ahhh Brahn Boots!!!!

R.P. Weston and Bert Lee, 1940

Our Aunt Hannah's passed away;
We'd her funeral today,
And it was a posh affair -
Had to have two p'licemen there!

The 'earse was luv'ly, all plate glass,
And wot a corfin! oak and brass!
We'd fah-sands weepin', flahers galore,
But Jim, our cousin - what d'yer fink 'e wore?

Why, brahn boots! I ask yer - brahn boots!
Fancy comin' to a funeral in brahn boots!
I will admit 'e 'ad a nice black tie,
Black fingernails and a nice black eye;

But yer can't see people orf when they die in brahn boots!
And Aunt 'ad been so very good to 'im,
Done all that any muvver could fer 'im,
And Jim, her son, to show his clarss,

Rolls up to make it all a farce
In brahn boots - I ask yer - brahn boots!
While all the rest
Wore decent black, and mourning suits.

I'll own he didn't seem so gay;
In fact he cried best part the way,
But straight, he reg'lar spoilt our day
Wiv 'is brahn boots.

In the graveyard we left Jim;
None of us said much to him.
Yus, we all give 'im the bird,
Then by accident we 'eard

'E'd given 'is black boots to Jim Small,
A bloke wot 'ad no boots at all.
So p'raps Aunt Hannah doesn't mind;
She did like people who was good and kind.

But brahn boots! I ask yer - brahn boots!
Fancy coming to a funeral in brahn boots!
And we could 'ear the neighbours all remark,
'Wot, 'im chief mourner? Wot a bloomin' lark!

'Why, 'e looks more like a bookmaker's clerk - in brahn boots!'
That's why we 'ad to be so rude to 'im,
That's why we never said 'Ow do!' to 'im.
We didn't know - he didn't say

He'd give 'is other boots away.
But brahn boots! I ask yer - brahn boots!
While all the rest
Wore decent black, and mourning suits!

But some day up at Heaven's gate
Poor Jim, all nerves, will stand and wait
Till an angel whispers 'Come in, Mate.
Where's yer brahn boots?'

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 05:12 AM

Hi Guys,

I had a sad experience a couple of years ago. I met a woman in Doncaster whose family had been involved in the Mexbro' band since it's inception. As succeeding generations died off, all the concertina ephemora and some instruments, were passed on within the family and eventually all ended up at her Uncle's house. When he died, she had to clear the house and about 25 tea chests of the band's history went into a skip (dumpster). This included minutes etc from all the meetings, hundreds of photos a box of reel to reel tapes, instrument receipts, accounts, programmes, press cuttings and music scores by the thousand.
The instruments went, of course, to the concertina 'magnet' Chris Algar and so they at least were saved. If only I had met the woman 3 weeks earlier.......

The fartaphone remains a 'job in waiting' I have ample repair and restoration work for other folks to keep me going, ..... one day perhaps...
I am well aware that steel reeds would certainly give better response than brass but it seems a shame not to have a try with the brass Harmonium reeds I have to hand. I am more and more coming round to 'biting the bullet' and making a set of steel reeds and was talking with Geoff Crabb the other day about some of the particular problems of making and housing such colossal reeds ...
I do like a challenge and am aiming at a 30 key Bass Anglo. I drew up a rough plan a couple of years ago and the reed size and the need to hang the reeds vertically dictated a concertina with something like 14" across the flats !!

As Alan hinted, I am sylph-like 20+ stone with a 54" chest but even I would not want to play a box that size for too long at a stretch :o)

Regards to all

Dave Prebble

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:42 PM

It is always the case Dave that you always hear about these mass clear outs a few days or weeks after the event.People have been skipping priceless archives for generations,if only she had posted what she had somewhere, she could have even made a lot of money out of all that information.
How many times have you heard "Oh you needn't have bought one of those I have got one in my garage you could have had for nothing".
Any one got a Jeffries in their garage" ????
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 02:33 PM

Hi Al..

Any one got a Jeffries in their garage" ????
.....well.... as it happens...   :o)

Dave

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Rowan
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 08:15 PM

Any one got a Jeffries in their garage" ????

Some years ago Mike Jackson gave a free reed (mouth organs, concertina, melodeons and button accordions) workshop at the Newcastle (OZ) FF while he was doing a series of short TV spots on instruments & tunes. According to Mike (who told me this story a few months after the festival) a bloke who'd attended the workshop was at his mother's house and saw one of Mike's TV spots being broadcast on the telly. It happened to include MIke playing his anglo.

Said bloke watched, called his mother to the telly and said "If you ever see one of those for sale, drop everything and let me know!"
"Do you really want one?" his mother asked. "I'd give my right arm for one" he replied.
"Well, go into my room and bring out the case on top of the wardrobe" she instructed.
He did so and, when she pulled out a nice leather box, he opened it to find a mint condition 36 button Jeffries anglo. which his mother then gave to him.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 07:41 AM

.....I wonder - Could this be the one-armed player I met some years ago at a session in Leeds ?

:o)

Dave

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Alan Day
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:13 AM

He would have been playing with the other Jeffries owner with one arm and a leg,I think you might have mentioned who he bought it from.
Al

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 01:06 PM

Hi Alan,

If it cost 'an arm and a leg' - it must have come from Robgoblin

Dave

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 01:59 PM

I wonder - Could this be the one-armed player I met some years ago at a session in Leeds ?

No, that was almost certainly the legendary Dave Brady (ex Swan Arcade, and sadly passed away a couple of years back)

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: GUEST,Hannah Stone
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 10:45 AM

Hello we are making a theatre show about mexborough in Doncaster that is being performed at the Mexborough Concertina Club and we are looking ideally to speak to anyone that was in the Mexborough Concertina Band. If anyone was or has a contact who was please email me hannahlucystone @hotmail.co.uk (no gap this is just for bots) Hannah

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 02:38 PM

I was one of them.I will contct you

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: Guran
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 04:53 PM

Just noticed this thread for the first time and got the impulse to send some piece of exotic information. Unless someone objects I believe that the most long lasting concertina band in "our own time" i e the period after the old bands like those mentioned by Alan Day in the primary message to the thread in 2007 has been "my" band of the The Swedish Concertina Society - SCS.
It was started 1981 by a group of 10-12 players within SCS which at the time had about 30 members. From 1990s and until 2012 when the last member except myself passed away we were 4-6 active players.No proper recordings were maid ( sadly since we believed the interest would be too poor) Just a couple rehearsals were saved on tape. We used to have concerts 2-4 times a year in the Stockholm region and for 30 years we met regularly ourselves every 3rd week.I am still keeping the instruments and all the arrangements and I will gladly answer any questions about the inspiring experience.

Subject: RE: Concertina Bands
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 04:23 AM

http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/5148?fbclid=IwAR2oP6l_eWqkC1ViKiIRlgXuxRluw7mHompR0-_yDX5KboSF3ItrCbhb2Bk#.YNjy75DbmYk.facebook