BS: American Idol

Subject: BS: American Idol
From: Beer
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:13 PM

I only hope I can express what I'm feeling correctly. What the heck, Here goes.

To make a long story short......I was passing through an area that had a t.v. and American Idol was on. From Seattle if I recall. Now I'm a folke and love music, but what I saw was disturbing. I worked 35 years in a psychiatric hospital and what took place last week to me was border line, if not very close to mental abuse. Some of the contestants were physically and probably mentally handicap. I as an observer cannot confirm what I just said. But it was very, very laughable in a sad sense if you are in tuned with the handicap. True , it could be all a put on and maybe I'm just being to sensitive to what I saw giving the fact that I have seen many things. But to me it was just a little to far taken. About 100 years ago people would make it a weekend plan to go look at the mental insane as a picnic outing and laugh at their antics. It gave me a chill.

Some of the contestants that were interview and ridiculed by the judges to me should not have gotten that far. In plain words "It was a freak show".
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:20 PM

It's true--there's a difference between bad singing-- by contestants who sometimes then argue with the judges-- and people who have mental problems. And Fox has no problem with exploitation of the latter--while the former usually know what they're getting into.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:35 PM

It's totally obvious....they are exploiting some untalented, awkward people for the shock value...to stir the debate and gain viewers. These people should never have passed an audition.

A number of years ago, they played this game almost as a joke.....who remembers "The Gong Show"?

This is worse than the quiz show scandals, as they are 'using' less-than-competent victims.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Beer
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:18 AM

Thank you Ron and Bill . appreciate your supporter.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:46 AM

The word disgusting comes to mind. Years ago I watched about twenty minutes of a similar Canadian show--don't recall the name--and I have never watched another. If that kind of thing is representative of what is on TV these days, I am thankful I don't have a TV.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Slag
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 02:00 AM

Yes. Mr. Cowell was totally wrong and should be censured for those abusive and cutting remarks about the accidents of one's birth. Those are things that should NEVER be criticized. He and his laughing cohorts should have kept their comments restricted to the musical abilities of the person in question. I don't even believe a comment such as "You don't have the right look for our show." would have been appropriate.

This rude boorish bully should be taken to task and be made to publicly appologize to that young man for his crude and insensitive comments. A real low spot in TV history.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:26 AM

I cannot watch it. My blood boils when I see such behaviour.

It's also one more instance of TV sending the wrong message to those easily influenced, promoting rude and cruel behaviour as accceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 07:00 AM

I agree.
The pre auditions should have weeded such folks out as kindly as possible.
They were deliberately put into the telivised rounds to get a laugh.
Sick.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 07:41 AM

but funny

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Alba
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:25 AM

Yes beer, I am in full agreement with you. Cruel and disturbing at best.
Seems, from what I have read, a lot of people that used to enjoy this show are feeling that way too this time round.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:40 AM

Have these people got no ears,surely you know when your voice is ridiculous

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:43 AM

Idol has always been a freak show- the Gong Show on steroids, with a little less class.

Why anyome would voluntarily watch this $hit is beyond comprehension.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:53 AM

I find the popularity of these shows disturbing, more so than the show itself. Big $money$ is generated because of it this popularity.

Man, sometimes this world is a bit too scarry.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Scoville
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:29 AM

Well, that and more people vote for American Idol than vote for president, which disturbs me almost as much as seeing the ads--I never watch the actual show--of Simon Cowell et. al. verbally drawing-and-quartering people on TV.

I normally cannot stand Rosie O'Donnell but I have to share her disbelief that this is what passes for "entertainment" these days.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol (Freak Show)
From: Beer
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:04 AM

Re title

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:06 AM

I try to avoid "American Idol" as much as possible, although I've seen it on occasion when tuning in too early for whatever was following it (I don't remember at this point). It seems to me that the comments on "look" are justifiable, since the stated intention of the show is to find the "next big thing," which means they need someone with a forgettable voice that sounds exactly like every other (forgettable) pop star and a marketable appearance. If they somehow were to find someone with talent (have they? I have no idea), it would be by accident, given their criteria.

It looks to me like the people who get to the judges get there for a reason--the producers who do the preliminary auditions are asking only one thing: will this look good on television? Spectacular success gives viewers something to admire, and spectacular failure (combined with hubris) gives them something to laugh at, so they're getting the whole package on the auditions.

Is this disgusting and stupid? Yes. Is it "sick"? I don't think so. It's television, and I think it's just a logical product of the medium's existence.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: jeffp
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:45 PM

This is the sixth season for the show. Anybody who auditions knows exactly what they are getting into.

You want cruel? Play in the bars.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:20 PM

Okay, I may have limited experience in this department, but typically when you're playing in a bar, you're playing for drunk people who don't give a fuck what you play as long as they can dance to it (or shout over it). How is that cruel?

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Cluin
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:59 PM

I really don't understand the wide appeal of that show. It'd give a dog's arse the heartburn.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: jeffp
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 02:06 PM

If you don't play Skynyrd when they want it, things can get ugly. Other times too. Basically, if you have a thin skin, don't try performing.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 02:09 PM

"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste or intelligence of the American public." (probably a misquote, but you get my drift)

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: jeffp
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 02:39 PM

So true.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Slag
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 05:23 PM

It's like driving down I-5 in CA, television is, long stretches of dreary monotony but when you come upon a wreck, you just have to look. That's American Idol, in part. I DO like it when someone of exceptioanl talent shows up. Roy Head's son ("Treat Her Right" fame of the 60's) showed up and what a great set of pipes! The kid wails the blues!

I think you can probably be a talent scout without being a jerk but Cowell doesn't try. And yeah, I'm sure many folks tune in for just that aspect. What? Something for everyone? Maybe. I still think he should be made to apologize. He went far beyond the pale. Send negative comments to CocaCola and Ford and let them deal with him.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Beer
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 05:32 PM

Wonder what Oprah think's of it all. Or has this went over her head. She did interview Mr. Crowell and what I picked up she thinks very highly of him.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 05:42 PM

It's not that these people should know what they're getting into. If you had an audition where someone not chosen has to hack off one of his own fingers with a dull-edged axe and present it to the judges along with an apology, they'd still be lined up down the block waiting for their big chance. That's not the issue.

The issue is, is this what you want your kids growing up watching? Do you want your kid to idolize Simon Cowell and decide to acquire the acid tongue to cut down anybody he doesn't like? Do you want him mouthing off to your friends and neighbors because Simon says stuff like that he's cool. He's on TV. No? Then you shouldn't let your kids watch this show. But then they'll just watch it at a friend's house right? So maybe people who don't want this crass garbage on the air have a point.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 08:34 AM

Yes, because obviously the way to handle everything you don't like is to bitch and complain until you've bullied the network into taking it off the air (like that parents' group and the FCC, where they exert tremendous influence simply by writing a handful of letters).

I wouldn't want my (theoretical) kids watching American Idol, but Simon Cowell and his rudeness doesn't even enter into it. I wouldn't want them learning to think of music the way American Idol does. It's that simple. If they understood why I didn't believe the program was worth watching, but they still wanted to watch it for reasons that they could articulate and justify, then they could go ahead and watch it, although I'd still exercise my right to ignore the show, myself.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: heric
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:48 AM

>I wouldn't want them learning to think of music the way American Idol does<

I saw Kevin Spacey on Saturday Night Live do a step be step tutorial of the all the standard winning moves to make - which camera to look at for which move, the time to strut with a surge of confidence, etc. Claimed he could win that show without breaking a sweat. Pretty funny.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: jeffp
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 11:04 AM

If you don't want your kids watching it, don't let them watch it. Exert your parental responsibility. Don't foist it off on somebody else. It's not their job to raise your kids.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: number 6
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 11:08 AM

You can bitch and complain until they take it off the air .... maybe you can .... but where the problem lies is how this kind of stuff can attract a large segment of the TV audience. ... yes, that Simon guy is rude and yes he is probably 'acting' that rudeness ... but it attracts viewers.

Unfortunately there is a large segment of the population that is attracted to this kind crap .... and as long as people are attracted to it, it will generate BIG $money$, and as long as it can generate BIG $money$ you will continue see this kind of stuff on our TV's, movies, music, magazines and books.

as I said before in this thread "Man, sometimes this world is a bit too scarry"

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 11:22 AM

Just in case that wasn't clear in text, my comment about "bitching and complaining until they take it off the air" was meant sarcastically, as in, that's NOT the way to handle it. The way to deal with shows like that is diminish their audience one by one by educating people or simply raising children who have good taste and think about what they watch instead of sucking away mindlessly at the glass teat.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: number 6
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 11:25 AM

Very well said Jeremy .... education is the answer, and not in the academic sense.

Thanks for the clarification in regards to the 'bitching and complaining"

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: John Hardly
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 11:34 AM

Cultural drift is full of examples of things that, because one cannot point to what they believe to be a significant enough correlation between cause and effect (the ratio is too small), we buy into the notion that those causes are too insignificant for effect. Thus convinced, we do and say nothing.

So we shrug at TV shows that educate us to accept the unacceptable.

We shrug at pornagraphy because we can't point to a one-for-one ratio of obsession to bad behavior.

We shrug at industrial causes for global warming because the cause-to-effect ratios are too insignifcant for positive measure.

However...

We all know that, by a pretty substancial ratio, most acts of sexual intercouse will not result in pregnancy -- but we would never dismiss the connection of the two.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 11:46 AM

Sure, but what's the solution? Getting it banned (to use your comparison, doing your best to force abstinence)? or educating the people who could be affected and respecting them to do what they will with that education (Sex ed, plus offering your opinions based on experience, and providing contraceptives without judgement if needed)?

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 11:52 AM

"The way to deal with shows like that is diminish their audience one by one by educating people..."

Good luck with that one. I can't even get my girlfriend to stop watching it. If I don't get up and go read a book in the bedroom, I have to sit through it too. When I point out my objections to the program she just tells me to basically shut up about it.

I actually sat through the whole program Tuesday night and it turned my stomach as usual.Personal taste is one thing, but I feel there's something truly culturally corrosive about shows of that ilk.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 12:21 PM

I don't know, I think that if you understand why the show is crass and objectionable, you have the right to watch it if you have some sort of considered reason. If your reasoning is unpersuasive, though, I reserve the right to consider you a person of low taste and/or mental ability.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Slag
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:02 PM

It's the McDonald's of TV entertainment. It hits the middle of the bell-shaped curve. Chewing gum for the disengaged mind.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: GUEST,distressed
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:24 PM

Television is the most powerful weapon ever created. It puts you into a state just above sleep and then feeds whatever message the programmer wants directly into your brain. Currently, we are being taught that liberty causes pain, that random torture is good, and "retardation" is something we should emulate.

Sumner Redstone owns MTV and shoved the wildly unpopular Marilyn Manson into the faces of viewers until he became the new norm. Prince Phillip owns the Sci-fi channel and constantly shows us how we're to behave when the space aliens invade (Hitler said the final fake "threat from outside enemies" would be a staged invasion of space aliens. The world would unite against the threat by forming a world government). The CIA runs various programs including the wildly popular torturefest "24" (tip: if there is ANY military ordnance in a U.S. production, then the pentagon had final script approval for the program).

Western culture is being destroyed by television. That is the purpose of television.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: number 6
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:46 PM

Some people said the same thing about books.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:54 PM

And art. Somebody should've put a stop to the Renaissance.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: number 6
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:58 PM

They should have put a stop to it Cluin ... and then that fateful day Feb. 7th 1964 when the Beatles landed in JFK New York ... it was all downhill from there.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:59 PM

Pack up the pulpit, mother. The show's all over.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: GUEST,distressed
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 11:02 PM

You're right about books. lol. MAD magazine too. But the numbed brain phenomenon is the difference in television. The input goes straight to memory when you're mesmerized by TV. With books, you have your full brain active, filtering out good/bad, truth/lie. With TV, you just get an image of a decapitation fed into your memory banks and then it's on to the next image. No time to make a balanced judgement with today's fast-cut techniques. There's no telling what's being implanted in memory. Remember the hundreds of kids who had seizures in Japan while watching TV?:

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9712/17/video.seizures.update/

Many feel that was just some kind of programming beta test. TV is bad, bad stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: GUEST,Dropthumbs
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:52 AM

This is the most cleverly concieved marketing tool in the world. First you create a show by roaming the country finding talent and talentless people, let the audience pick their way through the throng, all the while building a fan base for the most popular or sometimes talented ones until one person is picked by the fan base, then you package the winner, offer a record contract and a tour package, all of which you own and profit by..... brilliant, and then strat all over again. Only in America.

Regards,
Dropthumbs

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Cluin
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:57 AM

We have it in Canada too--Canadian Idol--in the American Idol off-season.

But the whole thing originated in the UK with Pop Idol. Simon Cowell brought it to the US.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Slag
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:47 AM

I've been told and I believe it true, one would not enjoy watching television at my house because the real entertainment I derive is picking it apart. I also knew that my kids would be watching so I have always used the time (when they were still at home, that is) to tear down the deceptiveness of advertising, the non-sequiters and other fallacies in stories, the bases of what humor is, the bias and propaganda in the news, etc.

I have always tried to make TV educational. If you watch intelligently you can learn a lot but it's usually NOT what they think they are getting across; at least not to me and mine.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: John Hardly
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 09:04 AM

"Can you turn that down!? " Eve said from across the room.

Ed gently leaned his guitar against the wall and made his way over to the TV. But even as he started to lean over and adjust the volume control...

...it suddenly wasn't enough.

Muttering to himself, "For every commercial I've endured - many over and over and over.... - and always at that annoying heightened volume level to make sure I can hear it from the kitchen with the 'fridge door open! Always telling me of the wonders of the latest product that I need to make me happy -- I've bought 'em.....they didn't.

And with that, he reached around behind the TV, and with a jerk on the cord, pulled the plug on the set.
That felt a little better.....but not much.

The TV was quite an armful as Ed hefted it up from its stand. With a few grunts, and opening doors with a shove of the hip, he finally managed to get the thing out to the garage workbench.

A plan was brewing.

He looked around the shop for some rope but finding none, his eyes rested on the 50 ft. orange extension cord hanging from the peg rack. "That's appropriate." says he.

With great deliberation, as one might put into a ceremony, Ed proceeded to turn one end of the extension chord into a noose. After trying every which way to get the noose to stay put around the TV, he finally found that he could kinda wedge the protruding picture tube from the back through the noose twice and, with the TV entirely circled with cord, it was now secure.....enough.

Ed, by now sweating just a bit with the labor of it all, hauled the huge TV into his large back yard and half set, half dropped it on an old wooden chair at the foot of a big ol' oak that grew there. Throwing the loose end of the extension cord over a big branch, and then securing it to the tree trunk, he said, " ...and here's for every mindless PSA re-informing me either what I already learned in kindergarten, or what common sense taught me almost from the time I could first talk. I don't need some Government or corporate expenditure to remind me of the obvious --- and God save me from the TV viewers who do!". And with that he kicked the chair out from under the TV and left it to dangle there - hanging until dead.

.....'cept it wasn't dead, and Ed knew it. And Ed wasn't through...

...the TV didn't know that.

Ed pulled on the extension cord to raise the TV up a few feet. He then walked over to the nearby firewood pile and got a few armfuls of kindling and wood and stacked it under the dangling TV. With one more trip to the garage for some kerosene and matches, he was now prepared to finish the task.

As he lit the match to throw on the kerosene soaked wood pile, he shouted, "And for teaching my kids to, like, talk, like.....whatever...." he said in his best adolescent impersonation (which admittedly wasn't very good). "I'm not going to take it anymore! This is for teaching a whole generation of over sexed, over violent, over entertained youth that there's no difference between smart and smart-aleck........but infinitely worse, that there's no difference between fame.....and infamy!" he said. And with increasing anger in his voice he continued, "And for choosing your right to speak over the good judgement to shut the hell up from time to time!!".

As he watched the fire slowly disfigure the plastic parts as they curled and buckled slightly, he felt moved to be a little more active in the TV's demise. This watching thing was too passive. Ed retreated to the house and quickly returned with his 12 gauge and upon loading the single cartridge into the chamber took aim. As he did he shouted, " ...and for stealing the reality of life and replacing it with spectating! For every game watched...and not played. For causing me to forfeit my own creative potential - as well as the potential of my own creativity - to the expression of another's.....way too much of the time!" At that, his shoulder was kicked back with the force of the shell blast. And the glassy screen of the dangling TV all but disappeared, leaving a jagged crown in a mal-formed plastic frame.

But Ed was just getting warmed up.

He untied the TV from its mooring on the tree trunk and with a few swings to put it wide of the still burning fire, he let it fall crashing to the ground. He then dragged the TV carcass, cord and all and tied the cord to the bumper of the old pickup truck he used for gathering firewood.

He still had some things to say like, "For the Sunday morning talking heads who parade their professional liars week after week, giving them a forum for their manipulations until meaning has lost all, well..... meaning! And for foisting your pretty-boy presidential candidates on a public too ready to listen with their eyes....catering to people's desire for a symbol not a substance, an image rather than a reality!" This he shouted out the truck's open window as he proceeded to drag what was left of the TV behind the truck, over the uneven ground of the pasture behind his house.

When the extension cord noose finally let go of the TV, and the TV came to rest appropriately on a pile of cow manure, Ed slowly drove back to the house, and parked the truck. He then walked back in, calmed and refreshed, picked his guitar back up and started playing again.

"The guitar…" said Eve. "I was just wondering if you could play a little quieter."

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Beer
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 09:28 AM

Great story John.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Alba
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 09:46 AM

Good one John Hardly.
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 10:00 AM

the FOX channel will exploit anything. I saw some of the program while channel surfing, but kept clicking away because it was definitely
set up as a "freak show" to make fun of people who obviously were not viable contestants in a singing talent show. They milk every sad
situation for viewers who are sick enough to find that entertaining.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Beer
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 11:10 AM

Most of my friends and relatives don't see anything wrong with it until I point out the fact of exactly what you are saying Alice. Then their attitude begins to change. I guess it is word of mouth in reeducate the public that shows like these are wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: bobad
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 11:23 AM

I've never watched one of these shows and never will. From the descriptions on this thread I am reminded of the "entertainment" served up to the masses in the arenas of ancient Rome.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 11:28 AM

I don't think it's "sick" to be entertained by a freak show. It's human nature--freak shows have existed in one form or another throughout recorded history. They persist because people ARE entertained by them. So I don't have any personal objection to these people being exploited or insulted by any part of the show. My only problem with it is that it seems to say that musical success means being trendy, good-looking, and sounding exactly like every generic pop star who's ever achieved moderate success. Oh, and musical success is also about popularity and how much money you can make your producer. Can't forget that part.

The freak show aspect itself doesn't bother me. A lot of these people are signing up so they can be on television (call it Jerry Springer syndrome--some people don't seem to mind being exploited if it means they'll be on teevee). And like I said, freak shows have a long and distinguished history. In this case, though, it's not an especially GOOD freak show (and I haven't found Simon's comments clever or witty enough to think much one way or the other about him). I admit, I've only seen bits and pieces of the show, so my opinion could change if I were able to force myself to watch an entire episode, but I think the only harmful thing about it is what it's trying to teach people about music.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: number 6
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:02 PM

"It's human nature--freak shows have existed in one form or another throughout recorded history. They persist because people ARE entertained by them. So I don't have any personal objection to these people being exploited or insulted by any part of the show."

"And like I said, freak shows have a long and distinguished history. In this case, though, it's not an especially GOOD freak show"

Now ... with that being said ... let's take a quote from Beer's first post regarding the topic of this thread:

"About 100 years ago people would make it a weekend plan to go look at the mental insane as a picnic outing and laugh at their antics."

Ya ... again I'll repeat myself "sometimes this world is a bit too scarry.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:13 PM

bobad posted:
I've never watched one of these shows and never will. From the descriptions on this thread I am reminded of the "entertainment" served up to the masses in the arenas of ancient Rome.

This is just silly. Now, granted, in a few years we may see combat to the death and people being torn apart by exotic wild animals (well, unless PETA gets their way), but "American Idol" would probably have bored the hell out of an ancient Roman.

Here's a Roman-style version: Some public performances, a lot of drunken orgies, and the loser gets the chance to redeem himself in a trial by combat against either a polar bear or some big-ass serial killer armed with a spiked mace.

And again, there's nothing wrong with a freak show. There's something wrong with the debasement of art. Freak shows, like prostitutes, have been around forever, and they're not going anywhere, despite the best efforts of neo-Victorians who cry exploitation at the slightest and most questionable provocation.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: number 6
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:18 PM

I always was disturbed when the class would laugh at the one individual who was 'a bit different'.

BTW ... I and many of us here in the Cat expressed our opinions on prostitutes ... same analogy I guess ... people will exploit people regardless for a $buck$. I find that repulsive and disturbing. I'm sensitive when comes to the rights of human dignity.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:46 PM

It's your right to be disturbed by that type of behavior, but it doesn't make it abnormal or "sick." I choose to avoid watching that kind of thing, for the most part, but American Idol would have to go pretty far for me to consider them exploitative. For instance:

Having a "special" show where they audition only "special" applicants, as in, people with microcephaly, down's syndrom, etc., chosen for how funny-looking or blatantly mentally retarded they are. Use basically the same reaction shots (as if they can't believe what they're watching and listening to), and then have them ruthlessly make fun of their deformities in the post-audition interview.

THAT is exploitation. However, I still wouldn't call people "sick" for watching it. That kind of curiosity is normal.

In any case, I'm skeptical of "exploitation" claims under some circumstances. The people in traveling freak shows, back when those were popular, made a good living and were generally treated okay, while if they had tried to lead a "normal" life, they may not have been so fortunate.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Blues=Life
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:50 PM

OK, let me see if I understand the problem.

There's this televised singing competition, that people voluntarily audition for, hoping that they can be on TV. They show up with their dreams of being the next BIG POP IDOL, (and becoming rich on their talent), and sing for qualified, talented judges. Sometimes they suck. If they suck, the judges tell them they suck. If they don't fit the mold of the competition, they are usually told that they're not right for the competition. One judge is totally honest in his opinion, and tells it like he sees it, having been in the music world as a successful producer where time is money, and sometimes the truth hurts people's feelings. And we need to feel sorry for these people who get their 5 minutes of fame on national television (that they volunteered to be on, and waited in line for hours to participate in) because someone told them that they suck. Which, by the way, they did.

Oh, and it's not only the young, slim and beautiful who get on the finals, nor win it, but it's the SINGER who has the best voice and whose talents inspire the audience to vote for them.

Oh, I get it now. I feel terrible for these poor innocents.

Not.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:51 PM

I only watch American Idol while channel surfing. This week I watched because it was office talk. BLUES=LIFE hits the nail on the head.

Two things do disturb me. One is that the contestants chosen to go on are carbon copies of current American Idols. They wail and warble their way through songs in exact duplication of an existing artist (forgive my choice of word). I have seen contestants rejected who sounded to me exactly like contestants who were chosen. I don't get it.

The other is the decision to put people in the try outs who are obviously mentally ill. The last contestant out of NYC ( the deranged lady in the cowboy hat) was off her meds and very possibly a danger to herself. It wasn't funny; it was cruel. I would not have been surprised to hear that she attempted suicide after that fiasco. It simply was not necessary. There are more than enough no-talent fools willing to provide comic relief.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:29 PM

The question about this program and others is: Why the f&^%k should I give a f$#@k?

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Beer
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:40 PM

If screening took place before we get to see the T.V. script, then to me it is obvious that parading a person that is mentally challenged or handicapped is what they are looking for ( Of course this would never be admitted.). Which then makes it totally wrong and infringes on human rights Period.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Cluin
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:07 PM

American Idol has had shows dedicated to the worst of their auditions. They had one where they egged on performers they knew were bad, unknowingly competing for the tile of worst of the worst... analogous to frat boys "Pig Night" dates.

The other thing this program does that offends me deeply is the way it passes on the idea that if you can't sing like some 3 or 4 octave radio-friendly vapid cardboard personality, then you shouldn't attempt to sing at all. Singing is a basic and sacred human joy and the fact that these shits debase it for their so-called entertainment value is sickening.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:15 PM

(1) Hold your nose, take an anti-nausia pill, and mute the volume.

(2) Carefully write down all of the products advertised.

(3) Research the corporate ownership of those products.

(4) Write intelligent letters of protest to each of the product addresses (ATTN: Customer Service) and to their corporate parents.

(5) Contact each of the support groups for the people ridiculed (i.e., the National Council on Disability) and encourage them to do the same.

The "fanz" will write to the show, but you may well be the only one to write to the advertisers. Of course, it probably won't make any difference anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Slag
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:31 PM

Some things I have learned from American Idol:

It doesn't take talent to get on TV.

You don't have to be crazy to be on TV, but it helps.

Where talent is slim, begging. pleading and tantrums are sure to work!

If you sign a waiver to be on TV, everything you say and do can and will be used against you in the court of public humiliation.

CocaCola is a mighty fine drink to have while you are watching people try to cope with reality perception problems.

Talent scouts must exist in the ratio of 66.7% AH's to 33.3% sweethearts!

Buy a Ford and you will succeed.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: bobad
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 07:43 PM

"This is just silly"

The analogy I was making (which obviously went over your head) was to the fact that some chosen elites sit in judgement of others and wield the power to decide their fates, all for the entertainment and amusement of the masses. The fact that some of the "entertainers" appear to be handicapped serves to provide the judges with an easy target to ridicule, much to the amusement of the audience. IMO this is sick and exploitive but hey, if you get off on this sort of public humiliation, by all means enjoy yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 08:33 PM

On the subject of freak shows, I wonder how many of you watch the Medical Channel which regularly airs shows about the "World's Heaviest Man", "Born With No Legs And Arms", "Conjoined Twins", etc.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Slag
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 08:41 PM

Yeah but gee SINS, we can all tell ourselves that we are being educated when we watch those shows! Hey, have ya seen the girl with two heads yet?

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Slag
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 08:42 PM

I wonder if either of them can sing?

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Genie
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 03:35 AM

jeffp said "This is the sixth season for the show. Anybody who auditions knows exactly what they are getting into.

You want cruel? Play in the bars."

I'd add: You want cruel? Go audition for a Broadway show or a recording company.

It is (or should be by now) a well known fact that, of the ca. 100,000 people who audition for American Idol each season, only a handful will get any air time, and those are primarily a) some of the ones that have already advanced to the Hollywood second round or the semifinals, and (mostly) b) the ones who will make for the most entertaining TV by way of being outrageous or ludicrous.   Many very good, very presentable singers are turned away -- not even allowed to be seen by Cowell, Jackson, and Abdul -- because they are already seasoned professionals (e.g., performing on cruise ships, off Broadway, at local clubs, etc.) who come off as "too polished." American Idol is first and foremost a TV show. Simon Fuller and Nigel Lythgoe have outright admitted that.   What makes millions tune in every week is not a parade of good looking people with beautiful voices and well-developed stage presence (i.e., a talent show). It's a "cast of characters" (some included for comic relief, some to tug at your heartstrings). It's also the chance to watch frogs transform into princes and princesses.   

It's also about "pop" music (broadly defined to include some kinds of country, r & b. rock, etc.).   You are not going to find the next Loreena McKinnitt or Gillian Welch or Lyle Lovett or Bob Dylan there.

As for Idol becoming more cruel this year, I tend to agree.   But I understand that the contestants are counseled throughout the process about what's involved and encouraged to withdraw if they don't want to subject themselves to extreme criticism or ridicule. Some prefer to have their "15 minutes of fame" - even if it's a negative fame - over obscurity.

My biggest beef with Randy Jackson and Simon Cowell, though, is with their "advising" so many people never to sing again or calling them "tone deaf."   
It is obvious to me that a lot of these 'singers' could probably carry a tune if they tried to do a normal-range song with a recognizable melody instead of trying to emulate the uber-melismatic show-off runs of a Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston 'arrangement' of a song. (Sometimes when you "can't carry a tune" it's because you don't actually KNOW the tune!)
Also, there is -- or should be -- a world of difference between telling someone "You don't have the talent to be a music star" and saying "You should never sing again."   
Far more of the good that music (singing) does is by way of enriching the lives of the singers themselves than in pleasing audiences, and in providing rich emotional experiences for garden-variety folks than for filling concert halls. If yo' mama loves to hear you sing, dammit, keep singing for her - and for yourself.   

Vive la folk music -- the music of, by, and for the folks.

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 11:20 AM

I still would like to know why I should care....

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 11:33 AM

It's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart, Rap.





Am I on the wrong thread?

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Genie
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 11:43 AM

Rapaire, I don't think anyone said you should (care). ;)

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: SINSULL
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 12:56 PM

Actually, Slag, one conjoined twin loved C&W. Her lifelong dream was to sing on stage. SOme Country people heard about her and got her an audition. There was some film of her singing on stage while her twin pretended not to be there. She wasn't bad.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 01:02 PM

I saw that one. Didn't her twin actually hate country music?

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Slag
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 01:16 PM

Didn't know! Bad joke then.

I remember Cowell at some point in time explaining that he purpose in treating the auditioners in a rough ways was to let them know how rough the bizz really was; dog eat dog and all that. That seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me, kinda like a sadistic boss teaching you how sadistic bosses can be. Yeah, the sadistic ones can be really, well, SADISTIC!

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 01:34 PM

Yep, Cowell learned his lessons of the bizz producing records for the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and wrestlers from the WWF.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 09:38 AM

bodad posted:
The analogy I was making (which obviously went over your head) was to the fact that some chosen elites sit in judgement of others and wield the power to decide their fates, all for the entertainment and amusement of the masses. The fact that some of the "entertainers" appear to be handicapped serves to provide the judges with an easy target to ridicule, much to the amusement of the audience. IMO this is sick and exploitive but hey, if you get off on this sort of public humiliation, by all means enjoy yourself.

Sorry, no. I understood your analogy and recognized it as worthless.

In every TV show with a judging panel, you could say that some "chosen elites (sic) sit in judgement," so this is hardly unique or worthy of comment. Dragging in Rome with all its baggage is ridiculous, since we're clearly not (yet) at the point where we will watch people being dismembered for our entertainment. And watching people be humiliated? Well, that's a long-standing American tradition. See virtually every game show that has aired here, from "Street Smarts" to "The Newlywed Game," or if you need more examples, take a look at a few daytime talk shows. It's all geared towards parading morons in front of us for "entertainment" purposes.

Besides this, "American Idol" barely fits your model of "chosen elites," considering that the judges have no power over the contestants' fates once they've been reduced to a suitable number, and their power over the candidates is questionable to begin with, considering how thoroughly pre-screened anyone who reaches the judges has already been. Whether someone will get through is a foregone conclusion most, if not all, of the time. Assuming otherwise, given what we've seen over the years about how television works, is unrealistic.

So, to make things perfectly clear: Comparing "American Idol" to ancient Roman entertainment is a ridiculous overstatement, and even if you were feebly attempting to make some kind of point about "sitting in judgement" and "exploitation," it's a little late, since this is the product of decades of other television shows. I don't find "Jerry Springer," any of the "Judge (random last name goes here)" shows, a great deal of what I've seen on TLC and numerous other "educational" cable channels, or any game show I've ever watched any less crass or exploitative than "American Idol." That's television for you, and it's continuing a tradition (exploiting private citizens for entertainment) that is hardly unique to Rome.

I object to exploitation, but this has been going on for centuries. It's not going to change any time soon. And as I've said before, the "freak show" aspect of the series is the least of its crimes. What I hate about it is what it has to say about music.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 09:58 AM

Ok Jeremy, you win, I must admit my analogy was feeble.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Cluin
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 11:27 AM

Just back away from the mic, bobad.

And never ever ever ever let me hear you make an analogy again.   ;)






See what I did there?

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:28 PM

Sorry, I didn't mean to overreact like that.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 04:03 PM

I will be joining AA (Analogies Anonymous) forthwith.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 02:01 AM

Well, the whole point of 'reality' shows is that you don't have to pay writers.


The genius of American Idol is you get to broadcast a lot of talentless unpaid people yet there is an audience and commercial time to be sold. As someone said "money for nothing and your chicks for free"!

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: dwditty
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 02:21 PM

I am not saying it is justification, but commercial TV typically only airs what sells (or what they hope will sell). Fox takes it to the limit - just look at Fox News - which they call "fair & balanced."

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 03:39 PM

Thanks for posting, Beer. I don't watch TV, and I had no idea the show was like that. I'm glad for the head's up.
------------

"Then you shouldn't let your kids watch this show. But then they'll just watch it at a friend's house right?"

1. Do parents today have no influence on their kids whatever? How about talking to them about how the show is mean and "Our family doesn't act like that?" Kids probably sense that something is wrong and are waiting for encouragement to show their compassionate side. Remember that they (especially boys) are bombarded with messages to be tough and cynical.

Teach them some facts about handicapped people. How they came to be that way, that it is not their fault, that they are not evil or bizarre. A lot of kids are afraid of the handicapped because they cannot conceive of how a person could look or talk that way. Taking away the mystery helps them handle an encounter.


2. As for watching it at a friend's house, make the friends want to come to your house. Have snacks, act friendly, provide a place to hang out and something to do. The reward will be great.

My nephew, age 28, got married a few months ago. Some of his boyhood friends traveled 400 miles to attend the wedding. One of them introduced my sister to someone as "his second mom." It made her so happy. He was one of the boys that she had made welcome 15 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: GUEST,Seiri Omaar
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:06 PM

I see no problem with kids seeing the occasional episode or clip of American Idol if they are made to understand what is wrong with it. And are exposed to "real" music (def'n vague, but you get the idea).
Canadian Idol is a bit better from what I've seen, but not by all that much.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 08:37 PM

American Idol Spoof

which ain't too far off the original.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:57 PM

Iwas going to discuss this in great detail,but decided that its just simply shite

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: JeremyC
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 02:12 PM

Being someone for whom "shite" is not a native colloquialism, I want to share that I think of "shite" as meaning extra slippery shit that poses more of a danger to pedestrians than rogue banana peels.

So I'd say it's quite an appropriate description for American Idol.

Subject: RE: BS: American Idol
From: GUEST,IB48
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 02:45 PM

absolutely spot on jerry c,i couldnt have put it better myself