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So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
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Subject: So how DOES one Request A Gig ? From: the lemonade lady Date: 23 Feb 07 - 06:55 AM Just that really. Been trying for ages now and I know we're good, so do the audiences at clubs and fests (the odd few we've done) who've seen us. Although lots of positive things are said, nothing happens. CDs aren't the answer. No one listens to them when they get them. It's just a cop-out statement when you enquire about a booking. I was with a professional gigger the other night, we went into a pub, he explained what he does and without asking for a CD the land lord booked him. He's never heard him before but after he's done the gig I know he'll be asked back. Ah well any answers gratefully received. Sal |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST, Tom Bliss Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:03 AM Ask a few people who have seen you to write reviews. Make an A4 flier with a picture of the band and a very brief biog, and have the reviews printed nice and big. Put them on a web site (myspace is free) along with some MP3s. When requesting gigs always suggest a date, and offer to help promote with posters and fliers at nearby venues |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,John Robinson Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:05 AM It varies a lot from venue to venue to be honest. The key thing to to find promoters/venue owners etc who you you feel you can work with and who are happy to work with you. Filter out the folks who will just waste your time, don't let them drag you down and move quickly onto the next venue/promoter/club. One of the best pieces of business advice I have ever had is to ask not "what do I want to do" but "who do I want to work with". That was from a millionaire self made businessman who also happened to be a really nice chap. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Scrump Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:06 AM Perhaps it depends on how you describe what you do, to potential bookers. Are you able to say what the guy said to the landlord, i.e. how he 'explained what he does'? It would be interesting to know how much detail he went into, etc. Presumably you were able to listen and maybe get some tips on how to go about it. (I don't book our gigs myself, so this is something I don't know much about) |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:09 AM Four tips for starters:
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:10 AM Hi as someone who books guests at a folk club my experience with regard to demo/cd's is that they don't always give a true example of how a performer actually relates to an audience. I have, in the dim and distant past, booked a couple of acts on demos and found them wanting. It is not fair to put audiences thru an act that doesn't work (it's also not fair on the performers if they are placed in a venue that isn't right for their act). Another issue revolves around whether an audience trusts you to only put on someone worth seeing-they don't always trust you. If I have seen the act perform in club/festival venue and like them, then I may be prepared to book them knowing that I am likely to lose money on the night but will, at least, enjoy their performance myself. I realise that there is a catch 22 situation here but I don't make the rules! (if only I knew what the rules were life would be so much easier) I guess this isn't much practical help and I do wish that I had a simple catch all answer but I'm afraid I don't. good luck |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST, Tom Bliss Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:12 AM Yes at least one live track, with stage intro, including laughter (so tell a good joke), and applause at the end. Double up the applause if there's not enough lol! |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:13 AM Jacey Bedford has compiled two very useful downloadable .PDF's on this subject. Blue clicky is below, and follow the link "Info Files" in the column on the left. http://www.folkwise.org |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Ruth Archer Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:23 AM Dunno how helpful this is, but gigs beget gigs. I know that a few of the smaller bands I programmed at my festival got approaches based on their performances. Similarly, when i go to festivals this summer I'll be on the lookout - not for headliners so much, but for those lower-profile artists I don't know about yet. Festivals are useful to programmers because they can see such a lot in a short space of time, so see if you can get onto the programme of festivals that are local to you - most festivals will programme a proportion of local guests because they want to support the local music scene. I get on average at least one CD per day and find it REALLY hard to listen to them all. I also get Myspace approaches, and will usually listen briefly and see if a band sounds like they're doing something special. One or two have actually made me go, "crikey - I'd book them right now." But for the most part, I like to have seen someone live (or get a recommendation from someone I trust) before I'll book them. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: the lemonade lady Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:38 AM Thanks for all of that. Didn't find any info at all on the blue clicky above. followed the instructions but nothing happened in that site. all blank. hmmm. we have www.myspace.com/shotdogs We're in the process of making a cd as i type. the tracks on the myspace were done for a demo in 04 and we still do those songs, but we're so much better now. It all takes time. I think the pro, being a guy made the difference. www.gigall.co.uk search in band and performers for Howard Bragen. We have a wonderful quote from Dick Gaughan so we must ask him if he'd mind I suppose. Keep it coming. Sal |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Rasener Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:39 AM Ditto Ruth |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: muppitz Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:04 AM I've just started co-running a club again and for our first year of operation we've asked acts to come and play that are well known and will bring in an audience, hopefully this will get us something of a following and then we can look at booking the not so well known as we'll have somesort of trust with our audience. I also agree with Ruth, as persons who run events we don't like booking people from listening to CD's, it's more reliable to get the live experience and it all sort of falls back on that old cliche of being in the right place at the right time. 90% of the people we have booked are people we've caught on the off chance and become...... fans I suppose! (Groupies in some cases!) muppitz x |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:48 AM Sorry about the clickie, Sal - it works on my puter OK. You need to have Javascript enabled to access the page (you can always undo it again afterwards). If still no joy, try manually typing in www.folkwise.org and see if it works. Worth the effort - |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Rasener Date: 23 Feb 07 - 09:36 AM When you created the blue clickie, you probably forgot to put http:// in front. That is critical forit top work. There you go http://www.folkwise.org/ |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Alan Surtees - Shrewsbury Folk Festival Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:11 AM The artists booked for festivals most often reflect the personal preferences of the promoters who book them. This is what makes festivals so exciting and why audiences have their favourite events. Other factors will include a need to book artists with a proven record for attracting audiences. Thereafter promoters want to find a balance in the programmes they offer. Any one concert will, perhaps, want a headliner, a high energy band or top notch single performer. Then consideration will be given to a speciality act like The Old rope String Band or The Spooky Men's Chorale. The promoter will perhaps consider a duo or a world music act, always recognising the need to balance acts from the tradition with performers presenting contemporary work. This will work for all venues and the promoter will recognise the need to offer alternatives throughout the festival site, so that there will be something for everyone most of the time. Artist availability will have an effect on the overall programming for concerts and most importantly the promoter will be working to a budget; again trying to balance artist cost against predicted ticket sales. This is why festivals are high risk businesses. The promoter will be bombarded with up and coming new acts trying to get a gig. If the festival is small a clever promoter with a good ear can find good acts for relatively small cost, this will help the festival and the performers. Unfortunately for new acts a big festival is less likely to find performance spots for them. The promoter is booking well known acts to ensure his audience levels remain high. The likelihood of new acts being booked gets higher if they present their information pack in decent condition. Send your recorded material; biogs, reviews, and most importantly for me, a list of up coming gigs, I like to see artists perform before I book them. But send them in some form of folder containing the whole package. I don't want to have a CD, letter, flyers and photographs slipping all over my office with everything getting separated. I would prefer a CD in plastic sleeve, I want the whole package to be slim, so that I can file it easily. I didn't say forget it. Good promoters rarely let real talent slip by them, keep trying. There are thousands of acts trying to get gigs, it is a competitive world. Don't become a whinger it won't help. Talk to the promoter he (or she) will hate to refuse you, but they only have so many spots to fill. If they say no it isn't a cop-out, it is because they haven't got room in their programme, or the profile of your act doesn't fit with those already booked, or, in their opinion, you are not good enough. Well that is only their opinion, many world famous performers have been turned down by ignorant promoters. Keep Trying. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: treewind Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:40 AM Here's a more direct link: Getting Gigs (PDF file) Anahata |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Scrump Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:45 AM Failing all else, you could always promote your own gig, as discussed in another recent thread. Probably not recommended unless you are experienced enough and pretty confident of being able to attract a big enough audience though. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: oggie Date: 23 Feb 07 - 12:01 PM Don't limit your horizons to clubs and festivals, there's an awful lot of music out there. The important part is to get out and about so approach pubs, cafe bars etc, play your local if you've a free night. Are there any any-mic nights you can attend? As was said earlier gigs bred gigs, it's hard work but playing in non-folk surroundings improves your stage act no end. All the best Steve Ogden |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: greg stephens Date: 23 Feb 07 - 12:21 PM Keep trying. I turned down Paul Simon once, Over-priced, and I didnt think much of his songs. And he's done well, hasn't he? |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 23 Feb 07 - 01:33 PM I wouldn't know where to begin with this one. There's just so much to it. If you pay as much attention to the types of places you want to play in as the Owners do to the types of acts they want to hire, you'll find your niche. As a general rule, if you're not turning down the odd gig then you're either not charging enough or not picky enough. I hope that makes sense to you. As for the right way to ask... I prefer to make a phone call. You can arrange to meet if you want but in most cases, it's just not necessary. If your music is on your web-site, the manager/owner can scroll down and check you out while you're talking or as soon as you hang up. As for CDs & Demos...... Don't get me started. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Val Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:09 PM What about providing a DVD, video clip on CDRom, or videotape of a segment of a live performance? Maybe only one or two numbers would suffice, don't have to have a whole show recorded. That would give an excellent example of your style, stage presence, etc. You folks who do bookings - would you take time to watch a 3-6 minute video clip if provided? Val |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: skipy Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:30 PM 'giz us a job, I can do that! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:39 PM The reason that I request a CD from a performer is to make sure that he or she is really playing folk and not rock music. If I like what I hear I then make an effort to see that performer live the next time that they are in my area. It is only after I have seen them live that I will book them. I do not like to listen to what is posted on MySpace or other web sites. Why not ? For 3 reasons. First of all I have a slow dial up connection to the internet which makes even streaming audio an ordeal due to the constant interruptions for buffering. Second of all I want to hear complete songs and not just snippets to get an idea of the thoughts the performer is trying to convey in his or her lyrics. Third of all computer speakers are of poor quality. Only a good high quality stereo unit will give me a true picture of what the performer sounds like. SOL ZELLER |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:45 PM Val: I honestly think that the energy spent on such projects would be put to better use in other areas. I don't believe that getting into a bidding war with other artists who will inevitably come up with a better product, is the way to go. The bar/restaurant owner wants to know that you can help sell his/her product. The folk venues want to know that you can entertain their audience. You want to know that they can provide the venue, best suited to your talents and guarantee enough money to make it worth your while. Getting a gig is about business. Performing is about art. And ne'er the twain shall meet. Or not. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:48 PM So Rabbi Sol: You want free Cds because you have a cheap computer? Please! Say it isn't so. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Maryrrf Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:50 PM Having been both a performer and a booker, here's my perspective. When performing I had the most success when I was able to clearly identify myself as a good fit for the venue, and then I made contact with the booker either by phone or e-mail. Sometimes I got no return phone call or e-mail, but it pays to be persistent. I would describe what I do and ask if I could send a demo or if they would be willing to take a look at my website and listen to sound samples. Some people wanted the demo, but some were happy with the website. I would send in in a packet along with a brochure and then follow up a few days after I figured it had arrived. Sometimes that wasn't necessary - someone would see me at a venue or festival and want to book me, or I would be recommended by someone and would get an offer based on that. When booking, I WILL book people I have not seen if their music fits with what we want in the concert series, which is strictly traditional I will want to see a list the venues they have played, and I'm happy to listen to sound clips on a website - I don't usually ask for a demo if they have something up on the web. I also will take into account other people's recommendations. If someone approaches me cold I prefer that it be by e-mail. All they need to do is explain briefly what they do and send me a link to their website. We only have nine concerts a year so certainly there are many people that we can't book, and it might not be because we don't like them - it could be that we've had too much of that type of music lately (i.e. Appalachian, Irish, etc.) and we need to vary our program. Sometimes it may be that I would personally like their music, but I'm not sure our audience would turn out for it. Courtesy when approaching the booker is a must, and patience. And it is a little bit annoying when someone who obviously doesn't fit our criteria - which is clearly given on our website, is badgering us for a gig! To respond to the video question, I probably would take the time to watch a video but if it froze my computer up I wouldn't like it! I don't really need a video - but "live" sound clips are good. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,TIA Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:52 PM My experience - start by doing freebies (keep the day job). Soon word will get around, and you'll get offers (that pay very poorly, so still keep the day job). |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:25 PM I did too put in the http:// - see my 7:13 AM posting! Basically, it's all of the above - plus luck. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:32 PM Wow! Hats off to you Bonnie. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:36 PM Supply and demand. If they ain't demanding you as a folksinger, don't screw your life up - do something else. Have a look round, there are plenty of openings for performers and musicians. You've see the mindset of some of these people on mudcat. For most of them its just an neurotic excuse not to regard themselves as normal human beings, who sing and fart in the bath.(Oh no, not that finger in that orifice - real folksingers don't do that!) sod 'em. do something else. the tradition will survive, DESPITE their opinionated bollocks. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:50 PM And to you, Jim. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: M.Ted Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:59 PM You should do what your "professional gigger" did--basically it amounts to going up to the booker with a confident smile on your face and asking for the gig--it works, providing the booker actually has a gig available, and feels comfortable with you--but to make that happen, you need learn how sell yourself--and that doesn't come naturally to most people (especially folkies)-- It's best to learn at the foot of a master(like PG above), but they generally work alone, so the next best trick is to find a good book that teaches the process of one-on-one selling--with special emphasis on "cold-calling"--and study it closely(It won't likely be a music related book, but that's OK)--then just go--with persistance, things will fall into place-- |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 23 Feb 07 - 04:20 PM Ted: Who is PG? |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST Date: 23 Feb 07 - 04:36 PM professional gigger? |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 23 Feb 07 - 05:01 PM So, I just read the advice on getting a gig (well half of it) on http://www.folkwise.org/ and I must say, it's very good. As a matter of fact I'm getting the exterminators in to see if FolkWise has got my office bugged. Their step by step description of how to conduct yourself on the telephone and follow up is excellent. The brochure story is hilarious to me because I've been using a similar technique but I've never had any sales training. I do know this though. Microsoft Works has a nice little Brochure template and if you gave somebody a glossy brochure which you've made at home, they have no idea whether it came from a batch of five or five thousand. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Rasener Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:20 PM Just give me a video of a performence on a website and that is the best thing for me. I can judge from that if the performer has what it takes for my club. Jez lowe in my opinion was well ahead of most people by putting a video on his own website of jez and the bad pennies. He didn't wait for myspace to come along. You performers have to get smart and provide the organisers with something he or she can't refuse.Blimey the mind boggles :-) Its all aboutsmart selling, unless you are Vin garbutt. Even he is smart. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Marion Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:32 PM Here's an old thread that may also be of interest: Booking folk gigs: some suggestions |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:47 PM When I'm shopping for a new bathtub, I'll make a point of checking out as many dealers as it takes. I wouldn't be asking the plumber to send me a few. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:19 PM If you want a a new way to show yourselves off, try putting that video on an iPod--then stand in the immediate proximity of whatever booker you want to see you and play the thing--he or she, and everyone else around will want a look-- |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Bert Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:34 PM For most of them its just an neurotic excuse not to regard themselves as normal human beings... Haa! I LOVE IT! |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Marion Date: 23 Feb 07 - 11:26 PM Another good old thread about gig acquisition: Music, Your Day Job |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: melodeonboy Date: 24 Feb 07 - 05:57 AM If, as suggested above, "PG" refers to "professional singer", does it therefore follow that any advice he gives us will be referred to as "PG Tips"? (cue: chimpanzees storming club organiser asking for gigs!) |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Rasener Date: 24 Feb 07 - 06:01 AM LOL I like it melodeonboy :-) |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Dave Wynn Date: 24 Feb 07 - 01:43 PM In the UK I would recommend getting out as often as possible to singers nights at Clubs that book artists. Visit themm regularly and stay the whole night. Be seen and always give a good performance. Choose an eclectic range of your material and never repeat yourself at the same club (unless requested to). We have booked more than one regular visitor because we can see their quality, variety and become comfortable with them. Also our audience often asks us to book people who they have become familiar with and who they want to see doing a full night. When you get the gig work your socks off for weeks until you can do your whole set standing up in a hammock. If you're are well recieved ask immediately for a repeat booking in whatever cycle the club uses (we repeat minimum of 12 months if they give us a good night) This builds up a diary for you. In short get out there often. Some majors won't do floor spots but we have more than a few who drop in on an idle night just to remind us they are still there. Dave Wynn |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Feb 07 - 01:50 PM Look............. before long everybody knows about you. They know whether they are going to book you. You know whether they are going to book you. They're probably not. It's pretty much a closed shop. Live with it. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Leadfingers Date: 24 Feb 07 - 02:01 PM All due respect to Jacey Bedford , but at least one Club booker of my acqaintance now has her E mail listed as SPAM because of the number of E Mails she sent him ! OverKill is NOT a good idea ! |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: treewind Date: 25 Feb 07 - 04:11 AM There's always some organisers like that. One well known performer got one who complained about his incessant pestering him on the phone. He'd previously called a YEAR before. Floor spots are an excellent idea. We've gigged at nearly every club in East Anglia as a result of doing floor spots, and the only clubs we haven't played are the ones we haven't visited (yet) for a floor spot. The trouble with that system is it's fine until you've covered all th eplaces you can reasonably reach in one evening. Further afield really does need other means of contact. Festivals are a good way to get club gigs further from home, but you have to persuade somebody in the festival organisation to put you on a stage somewhere - an open singaround doesn't usually get you noticed by the right people. Anahata |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Tom Bliss Date: 25 Feb 07 - 04:44 AM Well said Anahata. Yes, it's very difficult to strike the right balance in terms of contacts - specially when you're trying to fill one night of a tour, and you can't move on to your second option until you know for sure that the answer's no (it's amazing how many people never reply, even when you're asking about a specific night)! Some organisers admit, very reasonably, that they just can't risk booking people they haven't seen, (quite a few of those never visit any other venue than their own, too, which presents a challenge if they're 200 miles away)! That's why I have a live track on my demo, and why Tom and I have a DVD, and also a video clip on uTube. Organisers often explain that they have a list of people who the audience have asked to see - usually all long-serving artists who became established in days of yore, when there were a lot more clubs and audiences were younger and more up for something new. This is again completely understandable and reasonable, of course - we all like to see our favourites, but I do hope that clubs will keep one eye to the future of folk, and do their best to fit in the occasional newcomer, and take the odd risk. There are new things happening for younger musicians, but there's a HUGE gap between the acoustic cafe/wine bar culture and the good old club. FCs may, as many say, die out with our generation, but with luck enough youngsters will have seen why we like them so much to be able to feed a little bit of it into their own new operations - whatever form they take. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Blowzabella Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:23 AM At work, i rarely get time to listen to music clips on artists' websites (and the speakers on the computer don't do anything justice anyway) - and, the system blocks access to places like youtube and myspace. I prefer to receive a cd which I can listen to in the car to and from work - or take home and listen to at my leisure. Also, I actually prefer samplers - snippets from tracks, rather than full eighteen verse renditions. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Hamish Date: 25 Feb 07 - 06:28 AM Personal contacts i.e. get out and be seen. Treat every floor spot as an audition. Be persistent and organised: don't be afraid of being refused*. Get a Filofax with all contacts and histories of conversations etc and make sure you phone back slightly before you agreed you would. Treat the booked as you you wish wish to be treated. Be professional. Take care with your contacts and promo packs. A sloppy approach there just could be construed as illustrative of a sloppy appraoch in general. (i.e. all the stuff the previous posts have already said. Plus the Filofax) Good luck. Hamish. *I know of many very talented artists who don't play as many gigs as they could cos they're afraid of a knock-back. So they don't phone. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: the lemonade lady Date: 25 Feb 07 - 03:48 PM GUEST,TIA : we've been doing freebees/floor spots for 4 years. Obviously we're not as good as we say and some folk clubs don't tell the truth! Trouble is, we live in the back of beyond where there are no folk clubs. We've been doing it for nothing 60-70 miles away in the west mids. And even those spots haven't been easy to get. This tends to make travelling expensive. sal |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: the lemonade lady Date: 25 Feb 07 - 03:49 PM just did a large answer on here and it's disappeared. Is something going wrong? sak |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: the lemonade lady Date: 25 Feb 07 - 03:50 PM oh it's ok now. sal |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: M.Ted Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:12 PM It's time to start thinking outside the box-- One idea which worked very well for my old folkdance band is simply to find a nice inexpensive or free space and have your own event--you've been performing for four years, so you must have a number of fans and friends around--get a space that isn't big enough to hold them all(fifty in a space for a hundred is a failure, fifty in a space for thirty is a "Standing Room Only" success!) If you can't fill the hall yourselves, invite another group that you know, or a couple of individuals, and, just to sweeten the pot a bit, make it something special, like "Eve of St. Agnes Dance Party" or "Tribute to Disfunctional Families" or raffle off a car for a bogus charity;-) Anyway, you get the idea--and, if it works out, give yourselves a regular booking-- |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Tattie Bogle Date: 26 Feb 07 - 05:55 PM Also know your targets! One club I represent has a Festival once a year with one main concert, so there will be one headline act and one support act, plus we put on a mid-year concert, and monthly sessions. The rest of the Festival weekend is filled with ceilidh, Open Stage, workshops and other events. So what I'm saying is the chance of appearing as a paid artiste are fairly low in this set-up. But another club I go to has a different act and floor spots every single week from September to June, so there's maybe more chance of appearing there if you're any good. So target those places that have more employment opportunities. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Greycap Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:39 PM Are you, and your fellow musicians, really good? Does your outfit know and perform at least 1000 songs or instrumentals that will fit any situation? Are your excellent, top-of-the range instruments always in tune, without messing about between songs? Do you have a p.a system that really works? Is your transport reliable? Do you have a good reputation for reliablity? Go figure and think this one out. think about it...... |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,M.Ted Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:57 PM If you fill Greycap's bill, you'll be able to find work in the lounge at any Holiday Inn, anywhere in the world.;-) |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Feb 07 - 04:05 PM M.Ted: Trying to figure out whether that was tongue in cheek or if Holiday Inn is something worth aiming for? Just curious. Jim |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Scrump Date: 28 Feb 07 - 06:11 AM Are your excellent, top-of-the range instruments always in tune, without messing about between songs? Does such a guitar exist? I've never managed to find one. But if you do, then please let me know and I'll buy one. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: oggie Date: 28 Feb 07 - 05:19 PM "Trying to figure out whether that was tongue in cheek or if Holiday Inn is something worth aiming for?" Work is work, money is money, bills have to be paid. In all seriousness work out what you're trying to do and them aim for it. If you want to be be an "artiste" that's one route and one set of venues, if you're a jobbing musician with bills to pay that's another set. From my perspective, if I'm offered my fee then so long as it's not illegal I'll do it (one greedy bank manager to support) All the best Steve Ogden |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton Date: 28 Feb 07 - 05:55 PM There's a catch-22 here. They won't want to see you if they don't know you and they can't know you if they don't get to see you. Solution: Create your own gigs and start small. House concerts. Find a friend with a large enough space or make one yourself. Libraries, museums and schools are a good contact if you know someone there. Play various places...even volunteer sometimes...because they will see you and maybe hire you later. (Don't overexpose self for freebees, however). Start promoting yourself with people you already know. Play parties (birthday, theme etc.) Don't overprice yourself. Keep working at your craft. Sometimes in that process, contacts are made through your teachers, and other support-networks. At first, don't bother with coffee-houses, restaurants or clubs. The first are too crowded and you generally will not show up well because there are time restrictions and often erratic time-slots. Restaurants generally can't afford you today. Clubs are the worst. Alcohol and attention to folk music doesn't work well. Frank Hamilton |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 28 Feb 07 - 06:01 PM Just call and ask. You do not have to jump through hoops for anyone, just to find work. Had my gutters cleaned recently and didn't ask them for a DVD/Video of one of their past performances. Turns out, they had a ladder and knew how to get up there just like they promised. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,meself Date: 28 Feb 07 - 06:05 PM I bet they got paid more for an hour's work than most of us do, too ... |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 28 Feb 07 - 07:08 PM I'd have been cheaper hiring a doctor! |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,M.Ted Date: 28 Feb 07 - 08:52 PM Holiday Day Inn jobs pay well, but they aren't particularly satisfying, aesthetically-- |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 28 Feb 07 - 08:55 PM Thanks Ted: That's my take on it too. Just wondered if that's what you meant. Regards Jim |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: kendall Date: 28 Feb 07 - 10:19 PM Scrump, my guitar stays in tune an unbelievably long time. Yes, it's a Taylor 810. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Scrump Date: 01 Mar 07 - 08:08 AM Yes, I'm aware that a good quality instrument is likely to stay in tune longer than a cheapo one. But they still need tuning from time to time, during a long set. It depends how you play it though. Tuning on stage is a necessary evil, IMO. I've seen artists who don't bother to retune during their act, maybe because they don't want to waste time, with the result that they play out of tune, which offends my ears. I'd rather they spent a short time retuning than listen to a cacophony (accent on 'short'!) |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 01 Mar 07 - 10:46 AM ... but it was in tune when I bought it... |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST Date: 01 Mar 07 - 10:58 AM Simply playing a guitar at gigging volume (even finger-picking) will put it out of tune - no matter how well-made it is. Using or moving a capy will do so too, and if you change the pitch of just one string the neck will twist slightly and put the others out. Then there's changes in termperature and humidity. Plus you can only tune a guitar accurately to one chord. As soon as you finger another chort it will be slightly out. Tuning is always a compromise, so sometimes just needing to play in first position, standard, in a different key, will require a slight ajustment. You simply HAVE to tune on stage, all the time. People should be educated to understand that. An out of tune instrument - even if ever so slightly out - simply does not work. It won't ring properly. You'll never get a chance find out how long you guitar will stay in tune on its own if you're using it properly. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Fidjit Date: 01 Mar 07 - 01:31 PM says what they want You have to find the bit about performers via Festival policy's Chas |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 01 Mar 07 - 02:50 PM "You simply HAVE to tune on stage, all the time. People should be educated to understand that." Nope. Sorry. If you can't play the instrument without knocking it out of tune, you need a better instrument. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Linda Kelly Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:07 PM 1000 songs- ye GODS!!! I can barely remember my own! |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Fidjit Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:09 PM Where he worked Even this man asked for work ! Chas |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:16 PM "Are your excellent, top-of-the range instruments always in tune, without messing about between songs?" Yes! (but never my banjo, not sure if that's an instrument) |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Gypsy Date: 01 Mar 07 - 10:18 PM Better late than never. Couple of things........find events that you feel need your music, then manifest it. Accept (and seek!) bookings as far away as a year in advance.....time flies. Do freebies where it will benefit you, or where you just feel you should do it cuz it is right. Yes, having your own event helps, we cofounded a contra dance. ALWAYS have business cards. Our answering machine has the band advert on it, before our names. So does my car. And baseball cap. THANK every benefactor who has ever hired you, and enclose a business card. Mail this thanks, don't do it verbally. Hand address the envelope, and don't use a business size. We are a little band, but solidly booked 6 months out of the year, every weekend. I collapse in november, then start lining out the year in january. We are just about full for season at this point. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST, Tom Bliss Date: 22 Jun 07 - 08:23 AM Jim Lad said (before we were so kindly advised where to find some dubious thrills) ["You simply HAVE to tune on stage, all the time. People should be educated to understand that." Nope. Sorry. If you can't play the instrument without knocking it out of tune, you need a better instrument.] I was actually the guest to whom he was replying (sorry, I must have forgotten to put my name). Actually, Jim you are the one who is mistaken here. I play two top-end Martins and the others are all very good quality hand-made instruments (by David Oddy amongst others). This has nothing whatsoever to do with knocking an instrument out of tune. It's to do with the physics of a vibrating string, the changes that take place within a wire when you relax or increase the tension, the effect of temperature and humidity on wood, the natural bendability of wood, and above all the compromises that have to be made to permit fixed fret positioning on instruments such as guitars. You watch any top guitarist, from Ed Boyd to Vin Garbutt to Chris Newman to - yes - Martin Carthy, they retune constantly - because they HAVE to. And when they tuning to, say, Drop D, they have to keep retuning the whole guitar for a while before they can proceed. Why? Well, if you drop the pitch of a string by one tone, it is a scientific inevitability that the metal in the string will 'spring back' slighly over the period of about one minute, to raise the pitch again by about half a semi-tone. So if you tune the string perfectly and then begin your song, it will go out of tune about half way through the first chorus. And as the string relaxes, so the wood of the neck will bend in on that side. It's only a fraction of a mm, but it's enough to put all the other strings slightly out. If you change two strings the effect will be greater (which is why I for one only ever retune one string at a time - carefully migrating from Standard to DADGAD and beyond through my set). Then there are the issues of capo positioning. Both my Martins have perfect intonation. When I fret with my fingers the instruments are in tune right up to the very top fret. But capos - whichever make, they'll all do it once they're tight enough for use - pull the strings in tighter to the fretboard than any finger can. This always puts the whole instrument sharp by about 5% per fret. So if you capo up - and need to stay at concert pitch - because you're playing with others, you must retune. Same when you take the capo off or move it down. And you have to revisit each string more than once, because they are all changing in pitch by themselves, and the neck is constantly twisting as a result. Now you may think it doesn't matter if the instrument is not perfectly balanced, and you may be right. Certainly one can become unhealthily obsessed with tuning. But when I say that a badly tuned instrument doesn't ring properly I'm not just referring to it sounding out of tune to the audience, or even to the guitarist. I'm talking about its temper: The way the overtones vibrate against eachother. If you get this right the guitar suddenly comes alive in your hands, and playing becomes easier and a lot more fun. If the temper is out of sorts you can still play all the same notes, but it's hard work and the magic simply can't happen. You must have noticed this yourself in your own playing. I'm all for telling people that tuning is more complicated than it looks (and sounds), and generally educating people about it, as it really is worth making the effort to get it right - and to go on making the effort thoughout the gig. Most people think a musician is just being incompetant if he can't seem to tune all his strings with one tweak to each, and that's a shame, because it's not easy to achieve good temper - specially while entertaining an audience - and it would be nice if people like Martin Carthy got the credit for taking the trouble to do it well. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Warwick Slade Date: 22 Jun 07 - 11:03 AM I am sorry but I cannot agree with Tom Bliss (do I know you?) Many of the very top flight guitarist (no need to name drop) manage to play long sets without the need to tinker with their machine heads. It is interesting to note that only certain people constantly need to do this. Martin Carthy (God bless him) is a great guitarist and we would all like to emulate his music but even he is aware that the constant retuning gets up peoples noses in a big way. I am afraid the the long, and rather boring lecture on how a guitar gets out of tune cuts no ice and detracts from the joy of making music. GET A LIFE AND GET A GIG. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST, Tom Bliss Date: 22 Jun 07 - 12:26 PM I don't think we've met, WS if this is you... Warwick Slade Yes, many guitarists do manage very well with little tuning, but this is usually because they are working alone so have no need to maintain conert pitch, or because they keep their strings in the same tuning, or never capo very far up the neck. But if you are not in this category, as a lot of folkies are, then tuning is a necessary evil, specially if you want to sing in tune over the top. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 22 Jun 07 - 01:10 PM Tom Bliss: Here's the thread title "So How DOES one Request A Gig ?". Now, I'm sure you know a lot about guitars and you certainly mentioned lots of names (I've never heard of any of them) and I would not dream of getting between a musician and her/his instrument ..... However, what you have just described is how not to get a gig. Never, never, never change the guitar tuning during your performance. Pack enough gear to handle your show. Trust me on this. I don't know you and you are probably great (I'll check out your link) but I swear, as soon as any performer decides to change the tuning, I walk out. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST, Tom Bliss Date: 22 Jun 07 - 01:46 PM Well yes, the thread is about gigs but there's been a lot of talk about tuning too - and until Mr Spam decided to add a little spice to the discussion the thead was in deep sleep. So apologies for drift but if people think tuning is something that will lead to people walking out of a show then perhaps it really is relevant. A lot of writers ( won't name names if that's uncool, but I do reccommend you google the above, they are all seriously good players) use different tunings to create different tonal landscapes - as indeed MC does. I have, in the past, carried three guitars around, to minimise re-tuning, but as I play other instruments too I now prefer to use one, and try to tune quickly and efficiently, while chatting and telling engaging stories to divert the audience. That's what most of us do. This is me incidentally Tom Bliss Oh and as you can see above I have offered advice of gig-getting too (in fact I make a habit of helping new starters in any way I can). Off to sing for my supper now |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 22 Jun 07 - 02:38 PM Eat well, Tom: I'm a lousy musician. That statement goes unchallenged. You can take my word for it. Like you, I carry at least three instruments to every gig and like any other musician, am capable of tuning up if I have to but I don't. I simply switch instruments and take care of them during the break. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Date: 22 Jun 07 - 04:06 PM For me, most of the time the gigs came from "Hoots" or "Open-Mike" nights...Word gets around pretty quick if you do a good show. Then they ask you. or, you set up a tour with phone calls or your agent. Or, you ask. Other musicians will speak up for you. I got my start in Canada after flying in from the U.S. and did a "Hoot" in 1967, or thereabouts, at the Yellow Door Coffeehouse in Montreal, where I got seen by "Canada's First Lady of Folk," Penny Lang, who said to John Foley, the manager, "you should give this guy a gig." Then, things took off from there on in... As far as the tuning thing goes, I personally use about 6 different tunings during a set. The installation of 8 to 1 Grovers facilitated a "quick change" accuracy. Tunings are: Standard, G-tuning, D-tuning, double-D tuning, C-Tuning, E-Tuning. I started doing this after seeing the great Tom Rush do "Panama Limited" on slide. John Hammond does this, as well as countless bluesmen...Check out Joni Mitchell and Peter Green as well. It requires being able to hear(pitch), and comes with practice. Just like learning a new song. A lot can be done with the acoustic guitar. give a listen to Michael Hedges recordings...See you later...bob |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jun 07 - 05:05 PM Tuning: I use pretty good quality guitars: one hand-made Japanese classic, one Spanish-made flamenco (Arcangel Fernandez), and a small travel guitar made by Sam Radding in San Diego (which I do use for gigs, because it sounds good, it's easy to pack around, and people sometimes ask me if it's a "period instrument" of some kind). They're all nylon-string instruments. I tune them to concert pitch (440-A) with either a tuning fork or an Intellitouch clamp-on tuner. I keep them at concert pitch, standard guitar tuning (EADGBE), and I don't use special tunings. Once or twice during a performance I may have to adjust a string or two, but it doesn't take more than a few seconds, so no problem. Sure, you can get some interesting stuff with special tunings, but strings have a "memory," and if you keep cranking them up and down all the time, they'll try to creep back to where they were before you retuned them—while you're in the middle of the song you retuned for. That's the nature of the beast. Jim's right. If you want to use nine different tunings, you'd better have nine different guitars, unless you want to spend half your life cranking on tuning pegs. Getting gigs: I'm a bit fuzzy about how things are these days, but I found that most of the gigs I got way back in the days of antiquity came from non-folkie sources. I sang at parties and "hoots" in private homes and such, for fun, not looking for gigs, and the first major break-through gig I got came from a jazz musician whom I knew pretty well and who had heard me at several of these informal gatherings. His day job was as a public relations man for the Seattle Public Library, and one of this duties was to plan programs for KCTS-TV, the local educational channel (now, a PBS affiliate), to be tied in with materials available at the library and funded by the library. He asked me to do a television series on folk music. I didn't think I was anywhere near "ready for prime time," but he wouldn't take no for an answer. After that, gigs came pretty easily. But even so, most of them came as a result of friends going into some place that offered entertainment and saying to the owner, "I know this singer. . . ." And someplace in the course of the conversation, being able to say, "Well, he's done a television series on KCTS." So I may have just been some dork off the street—but—I was a dork with "credits." So, get some credits, even if you have to make the arrangements yourself. Stock method for a lot of classical artists was (and may still be) to rent Carnegie Hall (yes, you have to pay for it yourself, unless you have a rich "angel"), advertise the event, do a recital, and pray for good reviews. Unless it was a total disaster, you then have a Carnegie Hall concert on your credit list. It doesn't have to be Carnegie Hall, of course, but. . . . What venue (theater, concert hall, not specifially a "folk venue") is there where you live that most people, including non-folkies, would recognize as fairly prestigious? And friends who are willing to brag you up to potential employers are a treasure, a boon, and a blessing! And—sometimes someone will come up to you after you've just done a gig and want to hire you. I got several of my bigger gigs—full concerts—that way. Nothing succeeds like success. {But sometimes it helps to prime the pump a bit) Don Firth P. S. Also—beware of the person who wants to "hire" you to sing for nothing, but tells you "It will be good exposure." This can be true up to a point, but remember the following: People have been known to die of exposure! —Dave Van Ronk |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Date: 22 Jun 07 - 06:01 PM Sorry Don and Jim: The 9 different guitars and "they 'll creep back to where they were before" referring to the string tuning just isn't true, and this type of misinformation will tend to confuse any of the younger players reading this. Like anything else, Professionals who work with tunings all the time don't have these problems as the use of various tunings is a SKILL that can be developed. What astounds me about all of this is how you can be that oblivious to that which is around you? In fact, although you may not want to acknowledge/realize it, there are players who are capable of tuning WHILE PLAYING A SONG! It's part of the show for some Nashville session guys and I've used it during many shows as a trick for the audience. Have you ever heard of Roy Clark?(Buck Owens/Hee-Haw) Tom Rush made a CAREER with open tunings. If you think I'm making this up, start checking this stuff out, and don't be like the blind men each holding a different part of the elephant, and one says it's like a snake, the next says it's like a tree, the other like a vine...you know the story, I hope. The world is a BIG place. See some of it. And remember, Uncle Bob loves ya. But WOW...bob |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jun 07 - 07:49 PM Well, I'm not going to argue the point anymore, Bob. Nor am I going to back off on what I wrote above. Both Jim and I are professionals. I don't know how long Jim has been at it, but considering how good he is, I'd say he's been at it for quite a while. As for myself, I have some 55 years of professional musical experience behind me, along with some three years in the University of Washington School of Music and another two years at the Cornish School of the Arts (a consevatory). As to being "oblivious to that which is around you," I was not sleeping during those 55 years. My remarks about tuning have to do with both the principles of physics, and the experience of both myself and other musicians with stretched strings on a whole variety of instruments (including both steel and nylon guitar strings) and what they do when the tension they are used to is changed. A string's "memory" and it's tendency to try to resume its former tension is a well-known phenomenon among string players. This is one of many reasons why classical musicians, for example, are adamant about tuning their instruments to concert pitch (440-A) and keeping them there. And yes, I'm familiar with Roy Clark, Buck Owens, Tom Rush, and probably a whole lot of other well-known and not so well-known musicians who use different tunings--and I note that most of the professionals I have seen, both in person and on television, have a whole arsenal of guitars sitting on stands behind them, all tuned to the tuning they want and ready to go. One guitar gets put down and another gets picked up. I have also sat through the tuning throes of a number of musicians who use special tunings and who only have one guitar, and it ain't pretty! Please, Bob, don't assume that you know how much others know and have experienced. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Date: 22 Jun 07 - 10:05 PM Don: Been there. done that. All I know is what I can do. I've been with high level Classically trained players and while I know the techniques and the strict training are admirable, and the music produced is so beautiful, I felt a bit of sadness at the lack of improvisation which just does not play that well in a Classical setting. You are trained to interpret written music. And I have experienced hours of training just showing me how I'm supposed to attack the string at a particular angle, and the constant repetition to get perfect tone, etc., with just one finger..etc., etc. I had the opportunity to play with a very high level Classical/Flamenco player(better leave the name out here) at a function where I suggested that we improvise a particular portion of the piece, just for experimentation and fun and got looked at with that "RCA Dog" look. Nope, he ain't gonna be listening to MY ideas...Your word "adamant" comes to mind here. Andres Segovia was known for his strict adherence to form and with that he produced music that will live forever. But to talk to him about "open tunings?" Would be like trying to talk the Pope out of his stand on birth control. He has to toe the "party line" so to speak. My Dad used to ask me when I would close the refrigerator door, " how do you know if the light inside the fridge went off?" LOL. I guess with some things you have to have that element of trust. Oh, I've got to tell you this story. I worked for Polygram records during the era of Saturday Night Fever, Village People, Eric Clapton, etc. and worked with Vas Polakis, Head of Classical A&R. So one time Neville Marriner(St. Martin in the Fields) was in town to give a concert Place des Arts and I was given the task, delighted of course, to act as the A&R Rep for the company, attend the show, and make sure Mr. Marriner and his entourage were looked after. So they did the whole thing with the black tails and bowties and all and the break comes up so I go backstage to find them in a near empty dressing room around a small table. I look and they have two water glasses on which there are two forks stuck together and they are playing a game where they are whacking the forks with their fingers, sending them high in the air, trying to land the things in each other's glass. Well, I nearly fell on the floor. "Is that what you guys DO during the breaks?" "I thought you would be discussing the next score or quietly relaxing on a couch..." They tell me , "No, we already know the score..." "We just need to relax" HA HA HA HA... So, Don, don't assume that you know how much others know and have experienced... p.s. Is the lightbulb OFF over there? And RELAX, my friend, there are people on the earth who have no problem with multiple tunings and staying in tune. you just haven't met them... bob |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 22 Jun 07 - 10:20 PM Bob: Don't be getting all frustrated on me here. Just offering my opinion. I don't come close to Don in experience or capability but I'll give you a rough idea of where I'm coming from. I've played since 1979 and took a clean 4 or 5 year break in the late eighties/early nineties to spend time with my children. I'm on another break now to spend time with my new daughter and will get back into things, next year. In the meantime, the phone rings about once a month and I play just enough to keep the rust off. Between Don & Yourself, you have pretty well said all there is about tuning. My only input would have to be... I'm glad that you are impressed by those musicians. I'm sure that they deserve your admiration but I wouldn't hire them or sit through a tuning session. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Date: 22 Jun 07 - 10:30 PM Hi Jim: Congradulations on the new little one. My mind is a calm, quite lake over here... Maybe being with her will bring out the kid in you and you'll sing her a song or two. Give her a hug from me. I bid you Peace... bob |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 22 Jun 07 - 10:40 PM One does not request a gig---ever! They come to you and ask you to play their venue. Art |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jun 07 - 11:02 PM Well, Bob, now that we've established our credentials, first, I challenge the idea, or at least the implication, that someone with classical training is trained only to interpret written music. Good teachers and good music schools place no such limitations. I know that there are some who seem to be afraid to go beyond what's in the written music, but there are many who use that as the starting point, not the boundary. As for myself, I had been playing and singing for a number of years before I started musical training. I found that rather than restricting me with a lot of rules as some of my folkie friends warned me it would, it opened up possibilities that I (and said folkie friends) would never have known existed. The training freed me to explore. Although I can interpret a score quite well—and learn songs from song books when a lot of my folk singing confreres cannot—once learned, I set the music aside and go from there. I am no slave to the lines and dots, nor are most of the well-trained musicians I know. Within my experience, I have not very often seen a folk guitarist who used special tunings—and I've seen a lot of them, professional and amateur—using only one guitar and re-tuning it, who didn't have to ride herd pretty constantly on his tuning pegs, and usually by the time he finished a song, the guitar had managed to creep noticeably out of tune. Not badly, perhaps. But noticeably. Problem: you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with the world of physics. Such matters as tensile strength and elasticity. Now, I don't mean to be a smart-ass here, but have you had a hearing tested lately? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Mike Miller Date: 23 Jun 07 - 12:49 AM I have some experience in this area. When I moved to Ireland, there were a lot of folk clubs and I was, soon, working once or twice a week at Slatterey's on Capel St. I, later, found out that I had been reccomended to the manager by some of the musicians I had met at the Sunday sessions at O'Donague's. Working gave me a little money and enough exposure to get jobs ay other venues. It helped that I was American and, thus, different from other acts, but I never had to ask for a gig because I had been touted by well know, respected performers. In Scotland, I did a wonderful three weeks tour, booked by folk DJ, Arthur Argo. He didn't know me from Adam but he had been called by Dr. Ken Goldstein (the great folklorist), who asked him to handle me. It didn't hurt that Jean Redpath was staying with the Argos when I showed up. I had met and sung with Jeanie at the Fox Hollow Festival, that summer. It is the same story in the USA. Bookers listen to people they admire or respect. They, often, listen to performers who do well in their venues. Ms Lemon says that a friend was able to get a booking in a club she would like to play. Here's what she should do, after her freind does the date, have the freind introduce and recomend her. This is the only, sure fire meathod I know for getting jobs. It works on every level. Two years ago, I was visiting a freind in a rehab hospital. I saw, on the bulletin board, that a pianist, with whom I am familiar, was performing for the residents, that day. I stopped off to say hello and he took me to the activity director and told her how good I was with that kind of audience. Six months later, the activity director called and hired me for a performance. She hired me back, this year, too. Once again, it was personal reccomendation that started the ball rolling. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Warwick Slade Date: 23 Jun 07 - 07:27 AM Thanks, Tom Bliss, for your offers of help for newcomers, and listening to your MP3 I'm sure you have no trouble in getting gigs. It was V good. Unlike some contributers to these threads you are someone who puts their money where their mouth is. oh and yes that was me-geriatric cruises inc. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Date: 23 Jun 07 - 12:59 PM Don: Hearings great! Happy Weekend! Here's how a set might go...Usually I open a show with a standard tuning. Do a few songs. Then I might do one with a drop-D tuning. That is, the 6th string or your bass E is lowered. Next song, pop it back up, takes a second or 2. Note: If the guitar you are using doesn't have QUALITY tuning pegs( 8 to 1's, 12 to 1's), you might have some problems doing this, as the audience usually starts turning into a rumbling mob if you aren't quick. Watch for the rope being passed through the crowd. Next choose another of the more complex tunings. Let's say a "G" and maybe do a blues with a slide. Ending the set with a another song with "G" tuning. Especially one that is fast where you've pushed the guitar to it's limits and you end the set with that. Then, you're in the dressing room wipin' her off, THE GUITAR guys, THE GUITAR, and tuning back up, getting ready for the next set. So, by planning, and thinking, I don't make the audience sit through boring minutes tuning and retuning. I set things up so there is a clean flow and balance between songs, jokes, stories, and tuning. After all, for, me the whole thing's a show. They hired me to entertain you. And hey, I make almost a living doing this, HA HA, actually, I'm doing fantastic, thanks God... I do this stuff with a steel string guitar, NOT a nylon string Classical. So Don, got my arm around your shoulder while I'm talkin' to ya. And my other hand is offering you a beer, Ya got to laughs me bucko,(my not half-bad pirate impression, you have to be there, I guess) I tells ya, life's a peach. And any 'O the time yo spent in anger is wasted....Everythin's gonna turn out O.K.! Smile! bob |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Date: 23 Jun 07 - 01:35 PM Don: OOPS! Almost forgot. Don't want to be discourteous. Visit me on myspace: http://www.myspace.com/bobryszkiewicz or Google: Bob Ryszkiewicz if the blue clicky thing doesn't work...bob |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Don Firth Date: 23 Jun 07 - 03:39 PM Well, if it works for you, Bob, more power to you (thanks for the beer, by the way, and back atcha—skål!). Although I'm awe-struck by some of the latest theories in cosmology and I marvel at the consistency of physics (and even more at the apparent inconsistencies in quantum physics), I generally don't get emotional over well-established principles, such as Newton's Laws of Motion or the conversion of matter to energy. Once I figured out how long it would take to get to Alpha Centauri and back, assuming one was under power all the way, and could accelerate at a constant 1 g. for half the distance, turn the ship over, and decelerate at the same 1 g.—of course, factoring in time-dilation (very tricky!). [I had a science-fiction novel in mind, and one of these days, I'm going to get around to writing it.] It's not a matter of slipping pegs, or the quality of the guitar's tuning pegs in general (although cheesy pegs can slip, but this isn't a problem with any of my guitars), it's what happens to the string itself. If you tighten a string and raise its pitch, it tends to creep back in the direction of its previous tension. This is at its most obvious when one puts new strings on a guitar. Steel strings "stretch in" faster than nylon strings, but if you let the guitar sit for awhile after first tuning it up to pitch, you'll note that you have to bring it up to pitch again. And this goes on for a couple of days until the strings finally stretch in and start holding their pitch fairly well (more often then not, of course, you still have to check the tuning and make some minor adjustments each time you pick the guitar up). It also works in the other direction. If you release a bit of the tension, it will slowly try to crawl back up. Strange, but true. You can check this yourself. Retune a string and check the new note with a good quality electronic tuner (preferably one with a needle and dial). Wait for a while. Then check the string with the tuner again. You will note that the string has crept back toward its former pitch. Now, it may not be badly out of tune. But it will be measurable. I guarantee it. All materials exhibit this phenomenon in varying degrees. It's called "memory." I'm not making this up. Have a rainbow day! But do try the experiment. Have another beer while you're doing it—but not so many that you can't read the dial clearly. Don Firth P. S. Yeah! Just checked the web site. Interesting! I really should have a web site myself. It's in the works. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Tom Bliss Date: 23 Jun 07 - 07:54 PM Don, that's exactly what I was trying to explain. Yes, we have strategies for dealing with it, so it's not a problem - but it does have to be understood and dealt with, and life would be easier for both players and audiences if this simple matter of metallurgy was better appreciated all round. I often see guitarists changing tunings between nearly every number, getting the guitar perfectly in tune, starting the song, then wondering why it sounds so bad a minute later. Some people don't mind being slightly out of tune, but if you play like I do, almost classical style at times and well up the neck, with lots of of duplicated notes made on different strings, tuning is critical, and the temper of the instrument will make all the difference between a piece sounding wonderful and sounding just rubbish. I try to detune right at the end of a song, then play another instrument while it relaxes, or do longish into, so when I pick it up again it's stable, and ready to go - or if I can't do that, I deliberately start the song with some strings either slightly sharp or flat so they'll come into tune during the piece - which will usually be much longer than the time the guitar takes to settle. |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Date: 23 Jun 07 - 08:22 PM Friends: Just so we keep to the thread here. New strategies may be required to get that gig. I suggest you start to use the incredible tools that are at your disposal. #1 The Internet. get Global. Try myspace/See Folk Roots/Folk Branches with Mike Regenstrief. MASSIVE connections there. I'm pretty sure you'll see names you know if you cruise there. Also, mp.3.com. In Canada we have the CBC and New Music Canada. Sadly restricted to Canadians. But you can work it to make some contacts. If you want to get a site going, all you need are a few mp3's and a photo. Myspace provides the "template" after the sign-up. you are given a "player" to post your songs, and a place for your photos...0 cost, other than your time. Now the strategy here is exposure. Once you've created a presence, you align that with your own P.R. work to your local clubs and capitalize on any opportunity to play. The more they see you, the more chance you get to find that gig. #2Internet related. Podcasting. All you need is a computer and a microphone, and a little technical help. Now you have your own radio station...I think it's pretty obvious where I'm going with this. You have to have faith in yourself as an artist, and make it happen. #3 The Indie Bible. This is a publication that has done all of the contact work for you. Within you will find an unbelievable amount of info. all related to "getting the gig." Radio stations that will play your music. Magazines that will review it, etc. etc. You need to have "the eye of the tiger" so to speak, the drive. I believe the world will welcome talent with open arms. Personally, I've gotten my songs played in over 80 countries using these techniques. And radio stations have been asking me, if it's O.K. to play my songs...but it's up to you to reach out. You have to "get off the couch" so to speak. There is no reason "Folk" cannot be thriving right where you are. Better start to end this rather long, but hopefully helpful post. Strings: Yes, the stretch factor is there. But it can be ameliorated. Try this: When you restring your guitar, take a pencil and rub it a bit in the nut where each string lies. Then, tune your guitar. Then lie the guitar on your lap and grab each string, one by one and pull up about 4 inches. Do this about 4-6 times per string and gently lower the string back down. Retune the guitar. Play some chords. Do the pull up thing one more time. Tune the guitar. (I've got all the fancy electric tuners, but for acoustic, I prefer a good old tuning fork). Take the tuning fork and strike it gently to get the A=440. Put the fork in your mouth which will produce a very loud A-440 by clenching it with your teeth. It then becomes easy using harmonics to get a very accurate tuning for your instrument. It should hold in tune a bit better. Best of Luck with all of this. hope it helps. bob |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Leadfingers Date: 23 Jun 07 - 09:06 PM I just say " I am a brilliant Musician and singer !! Book Me" |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Leadfingers Date: 23 Jun 07 - 09:07 PM And sneak another 100th post !! |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: Jim Lad Date: 23 Jun 07 - 09:42 PM Blue clicky's working fine. http://www.myspace.com/bobryszkiewicz Hey! You're one of my friends on Myspace! |
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Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ? From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Date: 24 Jun 07 - 11:46 AM Thanks Jim... |
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